Dance of the wolves

Re: # 187....Watch the canadians now!!.Make sure ye don`t hang out next to them pak`s from now on, or you might find yerself deported and at the mercy of some goon in pakland.Shun them like the plague for your own good.

``Let`s see - dog is a four legged animal, so is a cat. So what is being said here is that a four legged animal is killing a four legged animal. How can this be distinguished from suicide?``

Sunlight, you have captured all of the reasoning behind about 70% of the arguments presented on the subject of terrorism.

Terrorism could not have survived (and will not survive) without the continuous support of its own unique ideosophy (ideology dressed as philosophy) and its own unique relilogic (religion filling the space of logic).

re: soysauce # 188

I have tried to think about this issue but haven`t resolved it one way or another. To put it provocatively, why should decent folks not assume the worst about each other?

As you can see, this is not just a rhetorical question.

Re: # 184
Ballukhan I have a problem with your line of argument (which btw is all too common). If a muslim identifies with a ``muslim cause`` ipso facto then I have a problem with it. If a muslim does not identify with such cause, there is no need to declare that. Decent folks should assume the best and get on. Same goes for hindus and ``hindu causes.``

Extrapolating Romair.. it will be interesting to hear a mush speech at G-8 meeting .. the one about distinction between terrorist and freedom fighters. Canada is a wimp and racist..the way they dealt with death of canadian citizenery on an AI flight hijackers.. had this been a british calendonian airways flight..

#182 by Romair on July 7, 2005 8:39am PT


Interestingly, the country that has suffered the most deaths, since 9/11, from al-Qaeda, is Pakistan.


And yet no western newspaper has a headline :We`re all pakis now...wonder why that is? It`s cos most people in the west know you pakis had a major role in feeding the jihadi monster that `s killing a bunch of people....


For example, Americans (and the British govt.) do not consider the deaths of over 100,000 Iraqis, to be terrorism.


ACtually the majority of American people consider that to be terrorism....most of the 100K have been killed by sunni nuts blowing themselves up in markets and (shia)mosques...


So far, only those countries that are involved in Iraq seem to be targeted. This indicates the attacks are not random.


Where have I heard that before? Oh yes...the neocons keep saying that...those darn mooselimbs attacked us on 9/11 so we must attack those mooselimbs(in Iraq)...capt clueless is a closet neocon? who`da thunk?

soysauce (183):

yes! right on. but then we didn`t need this remark to know that racism is alive and well. men and now women as well are still being called to take up the white man`s burden. a burden that still leaves so much burden for the ``other`` to deal with.

my time is up. take care.

``and my beef is that this becomes by default an Indian Muslim problem. I seriously object to that everytime.....``

Yes, I agree to this. But let me qualify. Imagine if the Ayodhya attack was successful and the LeT was able to blast away the so called janambhumi with their Paki grenades and announce to the world about the fitting response that they have delivered for the Babri Masjid demolition (while ridiculing the IM`s lack of faith in the almighty at the same time as a cause of their inaction!). All this is very much in the agenda of these purelander Jehadis who claim superiority in faith (as if they hold the monopoly over who the almighty should consider to be pure and faithful).I think WE have tolerated enough of such violent and stupid acts from these mullahs.....these gun running drug peddlers cannot fool us anymore with their claims of following an imblemished Islam. It is time WE consider them as OUR problem as well (and stop blaming others for the `root causes`). It is time WE unequivocally condemn and isolate these rascals who are trying to usurp the claim of speaking on behalf of every muslim who has been a victim of communal stereotyping.

And what is this publicity gimmick by this dastardly and cowardly attack on London? Do we only mourn the 40 people who died or it isn`t it OUR duty to discredit those who claim to have the monopoly to speak and respond on OUR behalf...........Was`nt the attack on the innocent Londoners an attempt to reinforce the stereotype of Islam as a belligerent religion? Yes, they are OUR problem as well just as Modi and Togadia are as much a problem of the Hindu community - and we better do something about it now!!!

My final remark. Whether it was the Bunty or Babli Board or the Subject of `Women as Witches` the `praise` has been only to the extent of the agreement on those issues..................stereotyping someone as a ``poster-boy`` does not dilute the strength of the disagreements.

Re: # 180
i find blair`s response somewhat curious. . . why should talking about africa and poverty affect the senseless actions of these terrorists? doesn`t he get it? the bin ladens of the world do not want you to talk about ``africa`` and ``poverty`` -- they want you to leave bloody well enough alone.

I find his remarks curious too - but for completely different reasons. The implication seems to be - here we are, a civilized people, trying to help you barbarians and all we get is a kick in the teeth. Blair`s repeated conflation of the west and civilized world makes clear that racism is alive and well among the massahs. It`s the same old white man`s burden when it comes to loan forgiveness, killing other people so they may be free, etc.

It will be interesting to see what the reaction of the British people will be towards their govt., now. Obviously, these terrorist attacks have a direct link to the British involvement in Iraq. So far, only those countries that are involved in Iraq seem to be targeted. This indicates the attacks are not random. They seem to have some direct political purpose behind them. In Spain, the reaction of the people was to vote out the government that had placed their military in Iraq.

Interestingly, the country that has suffered the most deaths, since 9/11, from al-Qaeda, is Pakistan.

There seems to be a major disconnect on the definition of the term terrorism, which is now created a vicious circle of violence. For example, Americans (and the British govt.) do not consider the deaths of over 100,000 Iraqis, to be terrorism. I am not quite sure what category those dead people are place under. Arabs, obviously consider those deaths to be a product of terrorism by the USA and the Brits. And they consider it specifically terrorism with a Christian and/or Jewish angle. Since the countries carrying out the bombings are primary Christian countries. And Israel is supporting them, overwhelmingly, in their efforts (Israel, being the only country in the world, whose population supports the war in Iraq, now).

Americans (and Brits etc.), obviously, do consider the attacks, like the current one in London to be terrorism. However, the organizations carrying them out (Al-Qaeda, in this case) consider such acts to be counter-terrorism, i.e. they feel they were terrorized first. They portray it, on their websites, as revenge for the killings in Iraq.

This is a very dangerous disconnect. If each side feels its actions are not terrorism, while the action of the other side are terrorism, then this circle will just widen, with no end in side. The USA (and Al-Qaeda) is deeply caught in this circle, now. It has developed a life of its own for them. The Brits are slowly entering this circle, due to their involvement in Iraq. Canada, wisely, never got involved in Iraq. And hence has been able to stay away from this circle. As did other countries like Germany and France. Spain has now taken itself out of the circle, after the recent terrorism in Spain.

Britain is somewhere in between USA and Canada, i.e. its people are against its participation in the Iraq war. While its govt. is heavily involved in it. It will be interesting to see, which way it tilts. Will it increase its efforts in Iraq, and go in with more armament and attacks? Like the USA. Or will it withdraw, like Spain did…………….

Re: # 176 DM

Farazana ``pundits-deserved-it`` Versey is showing a ``mirror`` .... and Mr. Dost-Mitter is enthralled by it :)

Actually - that`s the problem to begin with. People have been looking at ``mirrors`` hold up by muslim communalists and cry-babies for last 57 years - see where it has taken the country. Continous pandering towards these elements has kept muslims backwards as ever and communal relations as bad as ever. And yet, no lesson ahs been learnt. Fools are still enthralled by mirrors and smokes.

You are old but there is still time to grow out of such stupidity. Farzana is an unabased communal freak - such people must be countered, not pandered to.

veeresh:

i am talking to a friend of mine who is not too far from where the blasts occurred, and what we say and what is between us matters much more to me than what your distorted opinion of me is. he had just missed the tube where two people died. he is well, though obviously affected, but he allays my fears and worries about him and everyone by telling me that life goes on otherwise we let the terrorists win.

nowhere, nowhere on this page did i condone what happened in ayodhya. and my criticism here has been for muslim and hindu extremists alike. as for my comments on the london attacks, i was just writing up something in my ilog before he got in touch with me, it`s not finished yet, but here`s how it begins:

london calling is now london reeling from the attacks that apparently al-qaeda has taken responsibility for. i find blair`s response somewhat curious. . . why should talking about africa and poverty affect the senseless actions of these terrorists? doesn`t he get it? the bin ladens of the world do not want you to talk about ``africa`` and ``poverty`` -- they want you to leave bloody well enough alone. they want the raj via senseless killings for themselves.

i hope that those i know in london are okay. i see one online, and am relieved. what a bloody f ucking mess, again.

it`s really sad that there are those of us, north, south, east and west, who cannot see how we are all connected by so much but especially life, and they want to take so much of that away. to prove what in the bloody end?

when will it all end?

my friend is well, bless him and he said these people, who claim to be doing this for the glory of allah and islam, are so far gone. . . there is nothing left of conscience, of life, of god in these people. i wonder at what point were they ever ``here`` in the world. there must have been a point. nothing except a complete disconnect from life can prompt such barbaric, murderous acts.

and the bloody murderers are taking us with them.

what is it going to take to stop all this

when will it all end?

- -

if you must put it in sports terms, the ONLY team i am batting for, veeresh malik, is the team that believes in the sanctity of ALL life. and i am wondering where that team has disappeared to.

face it veeresh, you`re attacking the wrong person here.

Re: # 173 by ana:

i have learned from making the same mistake myself, and by observing the more literary types here that we tend to show what approximates a certain condescencion towards those who do not quite see or may not be aware of various vehicles of expression, and thus are referred to as literalists, or dismissed. i don`t believe that benefits either those of us who know, or those of us who don`t understand. if we want to share what we write with everyone, then it doesn`t hurt to remember that everyone reads differently, with the tools they have (or don`t).
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Literalist says: ``Dog killed cat``

Ana`s interpretation: Let`s see - dog is a four legged animal, so is a cat. So what is being said here is that a four legged animal is killing a four legged animal. How can this be distinguished from suicide? Also, consider the ideal of four-leggedness, which it can be said is manifesting itself in a canine manner as well as a feline manner. If we can assume that the manifestation of an ideal must deviate from the ideal itself in some way, how can the deviation of canineness from ideal four-leggedness and the deviation of felineness from ideal four-leggedness respectively be related to the suicide or extinction of one form of four-leggedness by another? Another perspective is that four-leggedness survives, with canineness as one manifestation and felineness as another, so perhaps from one viewpoint it can be said that there is really no killing.

All in good fun Ana :-) hope this statement is quite literal.

whats with all calling the author (or anyone) bitch? or arsehole? reminds of juveniles who thought using english cuss-words is cooler than m@ch@d/BCh@d stuff. which brings me to a muse..is saying arsehole more sofisticated than saying asshole?

Re: # 175

latest count - 40 dead in london.

Dear Farzana:

I am sorry that my comment caused you some difficulty. You are not a ``bad apple``, just a different variety than golden delicious -maybe Granny Smith- which may taste different but is equally nutritious. You show us -the majority- a mirror but the face we see in it is much more distorted than we see in our own mirrors, so we think that the mirror you are showing us is also distorted. If, like Khushwant Singh, you adopted the moto of ``with malice towards one and all` we would perhaps start eating that Granny Smith and benefit from its nutritious content.

I had stated in my earlier comment that I did not expect that incident to have any serious repercussions. Here is the proof in the pudding:

Lukewarm response to VHP bandh

July 07, 2005 17:01 IST


The Vishwa Hindu Parishad-sponsored bandh, in protest against the Ayodhya attack, in Maharashtra, Bihar and Assam
on Thursday failed to evoke much response, excepting stray incidents of violence.

Hundreds of activists trying to enforce the bandh were rounded up in several places.

In Nagpur, some activists tried to set ablaze a bus, while others smashed windscreens of two other buses in the city.

Several schools and colleges remained closed due to non-availability of the school transport system, police said, adding that business establishments and shops were closed.

6 militants storm Ayodhya, killed
About 15 persons were detained in Kampte near Nagpur for forcing shopkeepers to down shutters, the police said.

In Bhandara, a state transport bus came under attack. In other parts of Maharashtra, however, the bandh barely evoked any response as business establishments and schools were open and traffic plied as usual.

Mumbai was exempted from the bandh.

There was little impact in Patna, where life went on as usual as banks, schools, business establishments and government offices remained open and recorded normal attendance. Traffic movement was also not affected at all.

More than 450 Sangh Parivar activists were rounded up in various places in Bihar as they were trying to enforce the
bandh, official sources said, adding that in Bhagalpur some activists trying to block trains were chased away by the police.

BJP to hold nationwide protest on Wednesday: Advani
Reports from Bhagalpur, Ara, Buxar, Lakhisarai and Chapra said the bandh evoked good response with big shops and
business establishments downing their shutters and vehicular traffic plying in lesser numbers.

In Gaya town, around 75 bandh supporters, including senior Bharatiya Janata Party leader and former legislator Prem Kumar were detained while leading a procession.

In Assam, normal life was affected although no untoward incident was reported.

Shops and business establishments were closed and vehicles remained off the road in Guwahati, sources said, adding that attendance in government offices, banks and other institutions was thin.

Most of the schools were however closed due to summer vacations in Guwahati.

Rail and air services, however, functioned as per schedule, sources said, adding that the response was total in Barak Valley as well as in the districts in Upper Assam.

In Madurai, ten Bajrang Dal activists led by district unit chief Saravanan, were arrested when they tried to burn an
effigy of Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf and the Pakistani flag on Thursday, the police said.

The police seized the effigy and the flag before the protestors could set them ablaze.