London’s Hour of Reckoning

dost #192:

read the interacts of the writer for yourself bhai saheb...specially #175...it is clear that a writer that `plays` with the reader has some deep seated insecurities and motives that should be questioned...hamidm has taken him to task earlier as did khamkhwa...

it is apparent that chowk and its readership are a joke for this delusional person...and even such a tragic event like the london bombing cannot be spared his narcissistic shenanigans

look at this:

with his first article here..2005 UK General Elections May 7, 2005 ...he merrily started exchanging views with:

* spiritualgypsy - Member since: May 8, 2005
* thunder - Member since: May 8, 2005
* sarahhashwani - Member since: May 9, 2005

then comes Dusk May 12, 2005 ...and we witness exchanges between the esteemed writer and:

* husnaangelique - Member since: May 11, 2005
* kulsumbeig - Member since: May 11, 2005
* moazammudasar - Member since: May 11, 2005
* ravighose - Member since: May 12, 2005

bhai saheb...with your experience you know what they used to say about those `who talk to themselves?` don`t you?

rgds

t

How did this article, which is quite balanced, on balance, became a reason of so much hatred and attack against the author?

Re: # 185

I `see` clearly when i ain`t sober.Don`t tell me i didn`t warn ya.

#167 by ozerkhalid on July 11, 2005 4:57pm PT


Or should I say conceded to your anti-Islamic-fetish ?


My anti-Islamic fetish? What about these brit citizens...they live in one of the richest countries in the world...they have plenty of opportunity....yet they are ``alienated`` because something on their Islamist agenda(Iraq/Kashmir/Palestine) didn`t go their way...

Some people would have us believe that terrorists like Omar Saeed Sheikh are victims of poverty and racism...anything but what it really is...Islamist indoctrination...

A defiant Islam rises among young Britons
Thursday`s attacks turn attention to a group alienated from British society.

In Dalston market in north-east London on Thursday, ``Abdullah,`` a Muslim watch-mender and evangelist, was in a pugnacious mood.

``We don`t need to fight. We are taking over!`` he said. ``We are here to bring civilization to the West. England does not belong to the English people, it belongs to God.``

Two days later in a prosperous West London cafe, Mr. Helbawi pondered the attacks. ``It`s not a surprise but I am still shocked,`` he said. ``How can they do this? London is a city for all the world. This is not Islam.``

Hours after the bombings, Helbawi logged onto an Internet chat room run by British Muslim extremists. ``They were all congratulating each other on the attacks,`` he said. ``It was crazy. They were talking about how they had won a great victory over the infidels, as if they had just come back from a battle.``

Although so far, there is no evidence that British Muslims were involved in the bombs, there is little doubt that many British Muslims feel that Britain ``deserved`` the attacks for supporting the US invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.

``Because Muslims explain the conflicts in Iraq, Kashmir, and Israel through Islam, every Muslim feels involved,`` said Helbawi. ``People watch television and see Palestinian women being hit and pushed around by Israeli soldiers, and get angry and feel that they have to do something.``

But beyond anger, a sense of alienation often drives radical Islam. Many second- and third-generation immigrants find themselves cut off not only from their parents` cultures but also from a British one that includes alcohol and looser sexual mores.

``If you don`t drink, it really cuts you off from English society,`` says Ummul Choudhury, a London-based Middle East analyst for the Gulf Centre for Strategic Studies. ``The view of the older generation is also that you do not integrate. If you do, you are told you are betraying your culture and religion.``

The resulting isolation makes it easier for young Muslims to develop a contempt for British society.

``There is also a lot of racism toward white British people,`` says Ms. Choudhury. ``It`s not really something that people want to talk about, but there are definitely some things that Muslims say between themselves that they would never say in front of white people.``

#188 by ozerkhalid on July 12, 2005 3:12am PT


I


You also need a new keyboard...one with lower-case keys.

DEAR READERS,

FOR PURPOSES OF CLARITY AND CONVICTION:

I ``TOY`` AROUND WITH THE LIKES OF TEMPORAL AND HAMID M

FOR THEY TAKE THEMSELVES WAY TOO SERIOUSLY

I DEFLATE THEIR ``INFLATED`` EGOS

I DO NOT FOR A SECOND CONDONE ANY ACTS OF TERROR

I DETEST THE VENOM-MACHINE THAT IS AL-QAEDA

MAY ITS ASPIRANTS BURN IN FLAMES

AND MY HEART-FELT SENTIMENTS GO OUT TO THE VICTIMS

IN THESE PIERCINGLY GRIM ACTS OF COWARDICE

WHICH LONDON WITNESSED

AND JUST FOR THE RECORD-

EVEN THOUGH IM NOT A DEVOUT MUSLIM

I BELIEVE FAITH IS AN INTERNALISED PROCESS

NOT A POLITICAL EXHORTATION

I DO BELIEVE ISLAM HAS IMMENSE POTENTIAL

AND INNATE MECHANISMS TO FACE UPTO THE CHALLENGES OF OUR TIMES

AS I HAVE ILLUSTRATED THROUGH MY VARIOUS INTERACTS

AND SO DO ALL OTHER RELIGIONS

REMEMBER RELIGION IS NOT ANATHEMA TO AMELIORATION

I REALISE THAT IM THE POSTER BOY OF HATRED ON THIS FORUM

BUT EVERY TONGUE LASH

EVERY TYPE LASH

REINFORCES MY CONVICTION THAT ALL SOUTH ASIANS

CAN CEASE ENDLESS FIRE-SPITTING TOWARD EACH OTHER

AND WORK TOWARD A MORE WORKABLE CO-EXISTENCE

ONLY THEN WILL THORNY ISSUES LIKE KASHMIR CEASE TO BE

PAPER-TIGER

AND MEANINGFULLY GRACE AN AGENDA FOR SANGUINE REFORM

AND WHEN I SAY ``MULTIPLE-IDENTITY SCLEROSIS``

I DO NOT MEAN I ``HAVE MULTIPLE NICKS``

NOT THAT I CARE EVEN IF I DID

IT MEANS I PLAY MIND-GAMES WITH CHARACTERS ON THIS

FORUM WHO HAVE A ``HOLIER THAN THOU`` PERSONA

WHO TAKE THEMSELVES AS MORAL VANGUARDS

NO AMOUNT OF RUMOUR-MONGERING CAN FESTER

MY ZEAL AND EXUBERANT OPTIMISM

READERS JUDGE ME FOR THE CONTENT

OF MY LITERATURE

NOT THE RUMOUR MILL`S PROJECTED CHARACTER ASSASINATION

I BELIEVE IN ENCOURAGING BUDDING TALENT ON THIS FORUM

NOT CRIPPLING IT

I LOVE MOST OF YOU........

PEACE UP...

Re: # 161

I am also coming to this very painful conclusion.

I tried in the past to cover up such doubts under a host of explanations and arguments, but the final analysis always pointed to the unthinkable.

Ciao

re: Romair

Romair, I take things or words attributed to me very seriously. Every time, my name is mentioned next to any words or thoughts; indirect or direct, I am accountable for what is being said in my name and the final responsibility is mine. If my name is thus mentioned, I will not hesitate from asking the person, who made such remarks for a clarification. I have a very strong sense of responsibility. However, I was some what surprised by your reactions, but then I realized that the reason Pakistan army is not accountable and refuses to be, is because it does not teach its officers how to be accountable for their own actions. ;)

It seems that you are the one, who is getting worked up and seems unable to get over this matter. :)

As I teacher, I welcome the chance to be corrected myself and I have no objections, but just one question.

Please explain, how will correcting my grammar help you in your agruments on this issue?

Correcting my grammar does not lessen the fact that you have been unable to muster any comprehensive counter-arguments to my proposition that the real problem is in the nature of Islam itself.

Since you did not raise any questions or asked for anything new, but simply stated your views, I guess this dicussion is at an end.

I guess, we will have to agree to disagree, because I still hold the opinion that Islam, like an other ideology, will have to experience a period of reform and reformation. Islam might be a divine message, given by Allah to the Prophet (PBUH), but the fact that implementation of this message rests in the hands of mortal human beings raises very serious questions.

Every religion has undergone a period of reform and Islam, will also follow this pattern. Reform, in Islam, does not necessarily means an abolishment of the religion itself, but it does imply that the Muslims have to reconcile the contradictions which exist within Islam. Muslims will have to rationalize and explain these contradictions, which are the results of an inability to balance the absolutist nature of Islam, with the flexibility of a daily existence. There is a wide degree of difference, between what Islam demands and what its followers adhere to and this is the reason, why there is an identity crisis in Islam. The practicality of life and its nature is such that it cannot be governed with absolutism and it needs to be allowed to evolve and reinvent itself, but the nature of Islam and the absolutism of its morality denies the space, where such a balance can be created, maintained and allowed to exist.

A Muslim is thus, confronted with a very perplexing choice. It is very difficult for an average Muslim to decide, what is the right choice. It is the nature of the right choice and the inability of Islam to explain it, which is causing a lot of problems for the average Muslim. Futhermore, given Islam`s negative reaction to being questioned, Muslims are saddled, with many unexplained questions. The result is that Muslims are growing alientated from Islam, because demands of Islam are no longer seen in harmony, with the realities of the world and the Muslims are confronted with a moral dilemma. If they adjust to the reality of the world they live in, they risk running afoul of Islam and if they adhere to Islam and its teachings, they risk being isolated in the world.

This problem is very acute in the generation of Muslims, who grew up in western nations after their parents migrated and are now; second or third generation Muslims living in non-Muslim lands. The idea of an immigration has always been an economic one; search for a better life, but the problem with Muslim immigration is that when Muslims move to a new land, they have no wish to start a new life, but continue they old life. With this in mind, Muslims do not intergrate into their new environments and instead, wish to remain aloof from it. This creates a deep and lingering sense of alienation in the Muslims, because the realities of their new enviroments are not reflective of their wishes and what they had hoped to gain by settling in the non-Muslim nations.

Another resulting problem from this is the confusion it causes in the new westernized Muslims. They grew up and are part of the new environment, but their parents insist they profess a loyality to the old customs and traditions. Hence, the young Muslims, out of respect to parents, lead a double life, where they pay lip service to Islam, but reject it due to their acceptance, which is measured by their willingness to exist within the non-Islamic environments of the west. This is where the extermism of Muslims originates, because unable to find a balance, they either end up as born-again Muslims or they completely reject Islam by practicing a social and moral form of hedonism.

Consequently, due to the absolutism of Islam and its unwillingness to allow flexibility, a Muslim cannot be a moderate; s/he has to be an extermist since moderation is denied to the Muslims by the nature of their religion. Hence, a Muslim exists on the periphery of the society and thus, has a hard time adjusting to the society and the world in general. S/he has a hard time adjusting to the world, because the world is changing so quickly and profoundly, that Islam cannot explain the reality of how a Muslim, taught in the absolutism of their religion, can live in a world, which defies absolutism by its continued evolution.

Therefore, Romair, given the wide and encompassing nature of Islam and its over-arching influence in the lives of Muslims, any form of reform in the Islamic world has to include Islam, to be successful and any reform, which does not include Islam in its final calculations runs the risk of being a failure.

Ciao

Re: # 182

hey cayenne are we not getting hammered in mumbai ?

stope giving me ``goose bumps``................

Re: # 180

Hey ranjit i respect gandhi too

shiv sens on the other hand are a bunch of.........................

Re: # 179

Dearest Most Benign TEMPORAL of transience

`` thank you for this admission``…

you are most welcome temporal

``this lets credence to what fellow curmudgeon hamidm , khamhkwa``

absolutely they are real PERCEPTIVE, especially Hamid (M)anure

``and why i felt a tad uncomfortable in coming to this board``…

Yet temporal could not resist the apple of temptation now could he ???

``and while you`re at it. . . try growing up. oh and some of us were just playin` withcha too, `cause when it comes to credibility, you fail. and some of us know it ``.

temporal renders his much-awaited verdict.....

dear temporal

dear ``POET`` of glory

dear repertoire of wisdom

bewitch us time and again with your skills.....

oh pleeeeease...........

today ``credibility`` is a word WE ALL bestow upon you


``multiple identity disorder reminds me of a certain salim ahmed chauhan…he shares your affliction too…as he does when it comes to credibility…you are not him and his thousand nicks too``?;)

temporal you would never know ?

i betcha hamidm and you would love to find out though...would you not ?

what a bunch of sheeeeep ! heh heh heh...........

``khair…am saddened that you played with your readers``

temporal aroused to sadness..now there is a novel thought......

im glad i was the root-cause

temporal why dont you place me on your ignore list ?

good boy that you are eh ?

``this reinforces my hunch to stay away from here ``…

your hunch ? are you quasimodo ?

``sadly and with no regards``

temporal yet again you give me goosebumps..............

This article should have been self titled, `Ozer`s Hour of Reckoning`.Slow in coming it is, but it WILL.Knowing the Brits, they`ll do a good job of it.All the `Ozer`s` in London, try crossing the channel while you can, before it`s too late!!.

Re: #133 by Mantolives



You are an hypocrite, and a pretender to boot.

All your learned posturing about Jinnah came unraveled in the forum ``Advani In Karachi``.



End of the day, after much pushing and prodding, you came up with the following four measly points as the pinnacle of your learned readings on Jinnah`s much-trumpeted Equipoise:



[1) First and foremost the Law minister was a Hindu very conciously. This was major.

2) The Hindus were well represented on the constitutional commission.

3) The Hindu Minority had cabinet positions despite Muslim League`s majority.

4) A Hindu was engaged to write the National Anthem... ]



The worst thing in life is a fake.

And you ARE a fake.

It`s there for EVERYONE to see on that forum.

You are not worth wasting any time on in the future.

You are a shameless hypocrite.

Re:Ozerkhalid

``IM AN ``ULTRA LIBERAL`` EVENTS MANAGER``

Sure, and I am a follower of Mahatma Gandhi, tahmed is a shiv sena follower and Ajeya is a fan of Jinnah :-).

Ozer 175:

re: these gems:

DEAR READERS
TAKE A CHILL PILL
I LIKE PROVOKING ALL YOU GUYS ONCE IN A WHILE…
I LIKE PLAYING DEVIL`S ADVOCATE
IT ROUSES YOU FROM YOUR SLUMBER
AND KEEPS ME ON MY TOES
HENCY MY ``MULTIPLE IDENTITY`` SCLEROSIS…

..thank you for this admission…this lets credence to what fellow curmudgeon hamidm , khamhkwa and others have been saying and suspecting all along…and why i felt a tad uncomfortable in coming to this board…

ana in #176 summed it up well: and while you`re at it. . . try growing up. oh and some of us were just playin` withcha too, `cause when it comes to credibility, you fail. and some of us know it.

multiple identity disorder reminds me of a certain salim ahmed chauhan…he shares your affliction too…as he does when it comes to credibility…you are not him and his thousand nicks too?;)

khair…am saddened that you played with your readers (by your own BOLD admission in 175) on such a pivotal and serious issue…

this reinforces my hunch to stay away from here…

sadly and with no regards,

t

Re: #175 by ozerkhalid


[IM AN ``ULTRA LIBERAL`` EVENTS MANAGER ]


I don`t think so, pal.

It just seems to me that the bad odor of fanaticism is too strong in you.

Why don`t you play devil`s advocate on the other side of the fence for a change?

If you find that you cannot bring yourself to do it, you`ll realize why you enjoyed ``pretending`` to be a fanatic.