Being Imrana

Re: # 275

Al_bhangi,

1. Faith transcends evidences or any historical facts. For a fact, there`s no evidence to prove the existence of Allah either. And that`s R S Sharma`s firm and verifiable Marxist belief.

2. It`ll be interesting to learn how our ``marxist historian`` wants his body to be disposed of when he dies.

Cheers

There is no historical evidence whatsoever that Ram or Krishna, two deities worshipped by millions of Hindus in India and elsewhere, ever existed

Sharma reiterates stand regarding Ram, Krishna

From our correspondent
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticle.asp?xfile=data/subcontinent/2005/July/subcontinent_July618.xml§ion=subcontinent&col=

18 July 2005
KOLKATA — A leading historian has said that there is no historical evidence whatsoever that Ram or Krishna, two deities worshipped by millions of Hindus in India and elsewhere, ever existed.
``Faith is one thing. But hard evidence is another``, R.S. Sharma, 82, said after BJP and Sangh Parivar cadres burnt his effigies in Patna, accusing him of insulting Hinduism.
BJP and other extremist Hindu groups are angry with Sharma because his observations shatter their political line that Ram was born in Ayodhya. Now, they have dubbed Sharma a communist not fit to live in India, let alone propagate his views to misguide ordinary people.
According to Sharma, the projection of Ram as one born in Ayodhya and who later ruled it is factually incorrect and inconsistent with facts. ``A king needs an army, taxation system and legions of officials to govern his kingdom. There is not even a hint of evidence to show that a king called Ram or an administrative infrastructure ever existed. So where is the question of his birth in Ayodhya?`` According to Sharma, archaeological evidence is far more important than the so-called family tree cited in the Puranas scriptures. ``So what if Puranic content is being used to date Ram of Ayodhya around 2000 BC. It is not borne out by scientific digging and excavation in Ayodhya by experts``, he said.
Making light of the virulent protests by BJP members, he remarked: ``They have burnt me when I am still alive. Now there is no need to cremate me if I die tomorrow.`` Sharma said that the Hindi version of his book on ancient India, Prarambhik Bharat Ka Parichay, was viciously attacked last year by BJP leaders who accused him of taking liberty with facts.
``But they had not even read my book. Some politicians are so busy instigating trouble and dividing societies that they have no time to read or write. All they do is shoot their mouths off``, he said.
His book was withdrawn from the NCERT syllabus when the NDA was in power on the grounds that it was the handiwork of a Marxist historian.

Dalit,

When you are clearly aware that ``Hinduism is not a revealed religion and, therefore, has neither a founder nor definite teachings or common system of doctrines..and the rest of the 1st para in #270`` , why do you quote Manu as if it`s the prevailing morality in modern India?

And for the rest of your comments like:

1. Brahma is found ``guilty`` of cohabiting with his own daughter, Saraswati

2. The sexual life of Krishna, an incarnation of Vishnu, is well-known for its ``indecency``. He had ``illicit`` relations with Radha, wife of his maternal uncle.

Before you use words like fornication and prostitution I`d advise you not look at hinduism through the prism of Dalit-Christian/Islamic morality. You wouldnt understand the symoblism behind Shiva linga when you could never question the virginity of Mother Mary or the paedophilia of Muhammed when he married Ayesha.

If India hadnt been invaded and ruled by muslims and christians, who knows, we could be celebrating here a kind of womanhood where a modern Radha could freely express her desire and act on it.
Kerala would still be a matrilineal society and witness fortnightly festivals of fornication. Wasnt that booker winner a keralite who said it all started 2000 yrs ago when modern ``love laws`` were laid down?

If hinduism doesnt have a singular set of beliefs it only reinforces the democratic nature of hindus where freedom of belief, thought and speech is paramount. Perhaps the most popular of ``hindu`` verses is:

Guru brahma, guru vishnu, gurdeo maheshwara,
Guru shakshat para-brahma, tasmaisri guruvey namah!.

Loosely, it means that you can go pray your local school teacher if that`s your belief.

Finally, since the subtlety of Dharma is beyond you it`ll be good if you attend weekly prayers seeking advance-forgiveness for the sins you`ve gonna commit in the coming week.

Cheers

Re: # 270 Dalit: Whatever religion you follow hasn`t taught you any decency either. You either try to insult or respond to insult. You don`t respond to reasonable questions asked in a reasonable manner. You invent an insult where there is none. You heap insult where its not needed. I am not sure which tolerant and decent religion you follow.

Let me guess what your response will be:

heheheh reasonable questions heheheh Hindus heheheh

Let me see if you can improve on this.

Re: # 270 Dalit: Whatever religion you follow hasn`t taught you any decency either. You either try to insult or respond to insult. You don`t respond to reasonable questions asked in a reasonable manner. You invent an insult where there is none. You heap insult where its not needed. I am not sure which tolerant and decent religion you follow.

Let me guess what your response will be:

heheheh reasonable questions heheheh Hindus heheheh

Let me see if you can improve on this.

#459 by Dalit

[Glad he left the p-drinking tribe.
heheheheh ]

And joined the tribe led by a p.
heheheheh

LACK OF A COMMON SENSE
Hinduism is not a revealed religion and, therefore, has neither a founder nor definite teachings or common system of doctrines [Richard F. Nyrof, Area Handbook for India, (Washington: 1975), p. 163.] It has no organization, no dogma or accepted creeds. There is no authority with recognized jurisdiction. A man, therefore, could neglect any one of the prescribed duties of his group and still be regarded as a good Hindu. ``Hinduism has never prepared a body of canonical scriptures or a common prayer book; it has never held a general council or convocation; never defined the relation between deity and clergy; never regulated the canonization of saints or their worship; never established a single centre of religious life; never prescribed a course of training for its priests.``[ ERE. 6:7 12.] In the words of S.V. Kelkar, ``There is in fact no system of doctrines, no teacher, or school of teaching, no single god that is accepted by all the Hindus.`` [Theertha, p. 177.] In Hinduism, none is, therefore, regarded to have forsaken his or her religion, even if he or she deviates to any extent from the usually accepted doctrines or practices.
It is a collection of Pagan rites.

Hindus believe in Many gods and goddesses. Some of them are human (e.g. Krishna, Rama) some are animals (e.g. fish, monkey, rat, snake), some half animal half humans (e.g. Ganesh), and some others are natural phenomena (e.g. dawn, fire, sun). According to Hindu belief, god incarnates, i.e., takes the form of human being and other animals and appears in this earth in that form. Gods and goddesses were born like human beings and had wives and children. No god possesses absolute power; some of the gods are weaker than the sages and some others even weaker than the animals. Another aspect about Hindu gods is that the status of their godhood is not fixed. One finds that some gods were worshipped for a time and then abandoned and new gods and goddesses were adopted instead. The gods and goddesses worshipped now-a-days in Hindu homes and temples are not Vedic. The Vedic gods like Agni (fire), Surya (sun) Usha (dawn) are completely rejected and the gods and goddesses mentioned in the Puranas are worshipped by modern Hindus. Similarly, Rama who is currently receiving increasing acceptance among Hindus in India because of the wide propagation of the official and other media was never worshipped as a deity until the Eleventh century.
In short, Hinduism is a collection of Pagan rites and it promotes paganism. The absence of any central belief system ensures that the followers don’t have any moral, ethical norms, and standard values to follow. Often Hindus lack decency and have a very low tolerance threshold.

#269 by Ajeya

“No wonder your father converted!”

Glad he left the p-drinking tribe.
heheheheh

#263 by southasian

“Re: # 261 Dalit you are arguing well.” …For a Dalit... Dalit are not expected to argue well. heheheh

Re: #261 by Dalit


[Brahma is found guilty of cohabiting with his own daughter, Saraswati. ]

The sexual life of Krishna, an incarnation of Vishnu, is well-known for its indecency. He had illicit relations with Radha, wife of his maternal uncle]



Are you talking about Hindu mythology?

I am talking about historic incidents where your revered raped MANY women the same day he killed their husbands.


And he REALLY got MANY idiot converts who were thrilled to know that after they die they`ll be rewarded with 72 whores who would become virgins again and again - i.e. their hymens would repair themselves repeatedly.

What a deep philosophical worldview!

No wonder your father converted!

:-)

Re: # 267

Yeah, this ``Dalit`` is a fraud.. :-))

This is what Ambedkar quoted.. He had a very low opinion on Muslims..

According to Ambedkar`s study, Islam effects a neat and ruthless
division of the world into Dar-ul-Islam (Abode of Islam) and Dar-ul-
Harb (Abode of War). Dr. Ambedkar in his book says, ``The dominating
influence of Muslims is not democracy. The predominant interest of
Muslims is Islam their politics being essentially clerical. To the
Muslim Islam is a world religion suitable for all people for all
times and for all conditions. The brotherhood of Islam is not the
universal brotherhood of man. It is the brotherhood of Muslims for
Muslims only. For non-muslims there is no thing but contempt and
enmity. The Muslims have allegiance to a nation ruled by a Muslim. A
land not ruled by a Muslim is their enemy land and it cannot regard
Hindus as his kith and kin. The spirit of aggression is the muslim`s`
natural endowment. He takes advantage of the weakness of the Hindus
and follows gangsterism. A divided Hindu Nation is always to their
advantage. If there are any people with whom religious sentiments and
practices make it extremely risky to interfere, they are the Muslims``

#261 ``Dalit``

I notice you have not replied to any of my questions. You stand exposed as an impostor without the slightest serious interest in dalit issues. Good-bye and enjoy your silly act.

Re: # 261

``Heheheh
Christianity yes!
Just will be slaughtered if you killed a holy cow….hehehehe…Can’t stay alive after eating a cow….hehehehe… some tolerance… heheheh…. How many Muslims and Dalit have died for disrespecting the holy cow….can’t count…heheheheh
Another liar…. ``

---

Dalit:

I like your ``hehehes``.. They are good.. But use it sparingly.. :-)).

Re: # 261

``Heheheh
Christianity yes!
Just will be slaughtered if you killed a holy cow….hehehehe…Can’t stay alive after eating a cow….hehehehe… some tolerance… heheheh…. How many Muslims and Dalit have died for disrespecting the holy cow….can’t count…heheheheh
Another liar…. ``

---

Dalit:

I like your ``hehehes``.. They are good.. But use it sparingly.. :-)).

#261 by Dalit on July 17, 2005 2:04pm PT


Brahma is found guilty of cohabiting with his own daughter, Saraswati.


If you hanging you hat on that to take the focus off Pakiland as a terrorist hub and brit-pakis as jihadi-lovers, you`re seriously deluded...hehehe

Re: # 261 Dalit you are arguing well. However your laughter dilutes the impact. There are definitely interesting issues you are raising. Food for thought irrespective of whether you are actually dalit or not. I am also interested in knowing your definition of a dalit in modern India.

Guys

Don`t be fooled the nick. This is no dalit.

#211 by dost-mittar
“Hindus do not take religion as seriously as Muslims or even Sikhs”

Atheists, agnostics, and Christians talking about my mother now… hehehe “don’t take religion seriously” hehehehe…

#249 by Ajeya

“But Hindus do not respect and adore pedophiles.”

Brahma is found guilty of cohabiting with his own daughter, Saraswati.

The sexual life of Krishna, an incarnation of Vishnu, is well-known for its indecency. He had illicit relations with Radha, wife of his maternal uncle,

Incest, pedophile, child molesters all there. Heheheheh Hindu liar….heheheh


#257 by masanamuthu
“One good thing in Hinduism and Christianity is that you can expect to stay alive after raising those questions,”

Heheheh
Christianity yes!
Just will be slaughtered if you killed a holy cow….hehehehe…Can’t stay alive after eating a cow….hehehehe… some tolerance… heheheh…. How many Muslims and Dalit have died for disrespecting the holy cow….can’t count…heheheheh
Another liar….


#260 pmishra2

``there was NOT a single ``dalit`` organization working on this issue``

Working with RSS...hehehehe.