Being Imrana

Re: # 46

No sir I beg to disagree. If you remember, a few months back there was a rape trial in India wherein just before the final judgement the accused proposed marriage to the victim and the judge deferred the verdict and asked the prosecution to respond. The woman responded by requesting the bench to hang him and the indignant media and womens groups accused the judiciary for being partiarchal and insensitive towards the victim.

But the learned judge knew what he was doing and so must you. Same applies to Nisha Sharma`s case as well.

The prosecution may present whatever evidence but if Imrana says `My FIL didnt rape me` or Nisha Sharma (or the victim I mentioned above) says `I do`, the judge can do nothing but dismiss the case forthright.

Murder or homicide is a different case altogether. In Indian law even suicide is a crime.

Re: # 48 vaga

I think harimau is right. Rape is also a crime against the state. If it is NOT so in India - then it should be made so. So should be the dowry offence.... No matter what the victim says - the state must prosecute the offender. Because otherwise, the rapist might go on to rape others. The dowry seeker will seek the same elsewhere.

Haven`t you seen ``Law and Order :)?

This case has truly resonated with most people who have heard of it. I need to read Rushdie`s article more closely as well.

But if you can put the blame on the failure of the Indian state (a large, complex institution) why do you have a problem with him blaming other institutions like the Sharia law and the Deobandi sect? Why are they sacrosanct?

I, for one, am getting really tired of my fellow-Muslims not truly looking within, not understanding what it is that we might need to debate, discuss and perhaps change. Yes, she is a citizen of India and her victimization in this way is a failure of the state. But she is also part of the Ummah, part of her community and that too has failed her, pure and simple.

We have to face the fact that even if the Quran denounces rape it also makes it very difficult for a woman to prove rape and to get it prosecuted. Even if you disagree with that, for the common, poor Muslim living in a village a fatwa (justified or not) given by the local maulvi (who claims to interpret the Quran) holds more water than the actual text which s/he in most cases does not understand even if s/he can read it by rote.

So, what is the solution? I am equally confused as everyone else, though as an Indian Muslim woman myself I would rather be subject to a uniform civil code with the rights it promises than Muslim Personal Law. Of course, since I don`t trust the BJP/RSS, etc. who are the entities that push that agenda for their own reasons, I feel quite trapped as well.

The media`s only responsibility is to find good, and interesting stories and to keep the public informed. To blame them for Imrana`s plight is rather disingenuous. Of course they are in the business of selling more papers and time slots or whatever. But what about the responsibility of the framework within which most poorer Muslims live in India?

India is not perfect. There are tons of problems. But I also know of poorer Muslims that refuse to educate their children, especially their daughters, even if there are opportunities to do so. There were families for which my parents offered to pay for the girls to go to a good school who turned the offers down. They would rather have that money for dowries or for their sons. Whose fault is that? Not just the fault of poverty and ignorance because there was at least one family (from this same group) that did educate their daughter who is now an independent, educated young woman.

This is not to say that these problems do not exist in the larger Hindu society as well and this is not to negate the very real problems of communalism. But at some point, at some time we have to look within ourselves and brutally analyze ourselves and acknowledge that we too are part of the problem. That we cannot always blame others for all our problems.

Whether or not the fatwa was issued for this case is irrelevant really. Because the very fact that it was issued at all shows us something. This is what these men (I was going to type people here but that would be wrong) think. This is how they would rule if a similar case came in front of them. It certainly makes me think of other women in similar circumstances who have never come forward.

Also, I too have a problem with someone *facilitating* their own rape. Someone can facilitate their having sex, that is a matter of personal choice. Rape, however, is defined by the fact that the perpetrator forces the victim. There is either a physical or psychological threat inherent in the act. It is not an act of sex, but rather an act of force and/or violence that is acted out through the sex act.

To avoid issues like this in the future individuals, the society (religious and secular), the community, the legal system and yes, the nation, all have to examine themselves equally.

Re: # 45

Jawahara, well said. I am not such a fervent advocate of UCC, probably for similar reasons as yours, only that I include parties other than the BJP/RSS in the list of people haveing their own agendas to push in getting/not getting that through. But lack of a uniform civil code should not prevent Muslims from reforming from within, nothing drastic required, just making sure that travesties like this do not take place which, frankly, ends up making the whole community look rather silly.

Principles of universal jursiprudence should take precedence over Quranic interpretations in a case where a crime has been committed. Isn`t that plain common sense? If the woman was raped by her father-in-law, there should be enough physical evidence (if he was stupid enough to rape his DIL, surely he was stupid enough not to wear protection?); there should be the victim`s testimony; her husband`s testimony; perhaps the evidence o f the 12 neighbours and relatives who were interviewed by the police should be enough to land the guy in prison? If not, a little work on the daughterfocker by the local constabulory should fetch you a nice confession in no time. And balls to Amnesty International, this is India.

So you see, it really isn`t that difficult, and like Samina says, ``Why do we assume that ``the poor`` lack sense, a sophisticated understanding of justice, or fair play?``

``The poor`` are first and foremost human, we need to treat them as such instead of assuming they are helpless cattle just waiting to be led by selfish and narrow interests

Re: # 45 jawahara
//....I, for one, am getting really tired of my fellow-Muslims not truly looking within, not understanding what it is that we might need to debate, discuss and perhaps change....//

You are not alone ..... we all are very tired of muslims not truly looking within. It`s frustrating and sometimes infuriating.

++++

//...I would rather be subject to a uniform civil code with the rights it promises than Muslim Personal Law. Of course, since I don`t trust the BJP/RSS, etc. who are the entities that push that agenda for their own reasons, I feel quite trapped as well...//

if you think UCC is good - then you should support it, no matter what RSS position is on that issue. Paradoxically, that will take the wind out of the RSS propaganda sails........ It will also show that muslims are finally taking charge of their destiny - they are finally breaking the shackle of the self-imposed orthodxy and backwardness. .... And that will work wonders in the inter-community relations.

Opposing UCC just because RSS supports it would be like ``cutting your nose to spite the face``[or whatever that proverb is]

+++

Overall, a good post.

Ref Succubus #9

[FYI

Imrana: The Rape That Never Was
Adil Salahi, Arab News

..... A local junior scholar, or maulavi, told the council that the woman was now forbidden for her husband as she was like his mother now, and that she should marry the rapist...]

If Imrana`s husband goes to the criminal courts to get his father punished for rape and continues to live with his wife, does that make him, gasp, a motherf@#%er?

Can he be declared a motherf@#%er ex post facto for having had sex with his wife BEFORE she was raped by his father, thus turning her into his mother?

Where does Islam stand on this?

Do I have to go to the Deoband Seminary for an answer on this? Do you know if fatwa-online.com would enlighten us?

harimou you are in a jovial mood today

Re: # 43

I agree. #42 was funny :))))

Ref ozerkhalid #1

[...The up-keep of personal family laws in Bharat bears testimony to the pluralism and dynamism of the Indian legal system, harking toward a Uniform Civil Code through the auspices of Article 44 would tantamount to legal hegemonisation...a path India should not tread toward.... Uniform Civil Codes as has been proved in Turkey are no ``magic wands``....... ]

I suppose currently there is no de facto hegemonization of Muslims in India. Heck, you fcukers have to take Holi, Kali Puja, Diwali (with its firecrackers waking you up in the morning in the South), Buddha Poornima (with nuclear explosions no less), Mahaveer Jayanthi and Baisakhi while you are permitted by the hegemons to not attend school and to keep your women barefoot, pregnant and in purdah.

What we need to do in India is to catch all these Deoband mullahs and give them a free sex-change operation. We would then see a different type of fatwa coming from their vaginas.... it would be far better than what they are pulling out of their arses now!

Re: # 42

Most laughable is the suggestion that we learn from Turkey! This when Kofi Annan requests India to lease constitutional experts to help in writing constitutions for Iraq, Afghanistan and other African nations. No doubt an Indian presence will greatly enhance the moral authority of the panel because of the goodwill and respect India has in Iraq and Afghanistan. But it also reflects the quality of Indian constitutional gurus.

My GOD..How come Muslims are dictated by antiquated laws and Fatwas ? that too by Mullahs?
Is it justice that a Rapist who raped her daughter in law should get a present as her marraige?
Is Allah looking on earth ?

Hi Zafar,

Nice to see you back on this forum. I follow your posts on sulekha with interest. Boy, are there a lot of nuts there !

The media has done a good job on this issue. There was also good coverage of the child weddings in MP and Rajasthan. Frontline (Hindu weekly magazine) had a special issue devoted to this topic.

As you point out, no amount of journalism can substitute for good jobs and general economic health. But will our politicians ever permit economic growth and better education? I really wonder about it.

Re: # 40

Pmishra : `` Hi Zafar,

Nice to see you back on this forum. I follow your posts on sulekha with interest. Boy, are there a lot of nuts there ``

The person you are referring to is Zafar Al Talib from Sydnet . This one is different.

``What I am saying is that apart from all these things, Muslims need education and jobs to come out of their ghettoized lives. Give every Imrana a solid education and open a window of modern life in their courtyards, then you will see them cocking a snook at the so-called obscurantism of Islam.``

This is a very good suggestion ....,,but obviously there are well entrenched political powers who never want this to happen...Laloo never let poor Biharis get properly educated ....and that`s how he has been able to remain in power.................IM are similarly dragged down by these mullahs and other so called spokesperson of the faith...........I agree that the State has to intervene and come up with programmes exclusively for the secular education of muslim girl child.

If the, er, `author` who wrote this above here work of fiction gets thrown outta Singapore, where would he be heading to??.Mecca??.Medina??.harhar.

#33 by umbertoeco on July 12, 2005 5:01am PT


FOR THE MEDIA, ALL STORIES ARE NOT EQUAL. SOME ARE SIMPLY MORE CONTROVERSIAL, MORE SALEABLE.


The media has it`s own logic...Even in the US, a white blonde missing girl is more newsworthy than a black girl from philly..There is no malice...No secret backroom meetings in which media honchos decide to make Imrana a target....

I can understand how a minority feels the heat of the media spotlight more than the minority...I don`t see the white trash community beating itself up because one of their less esteemed members did something terrible...

The solution is not to complain about the media spotlight, or whine about it....Stay on the issue....