The Elusive Peace of the Middle East

Re: # 13

My dear r.a.janjua you are taking it all wrong. Your line of argument is highly distorted. You blame the present generation for the follies and faults of their forefathers. It is illogical. Although it is not necessary I need to inform you that I am away from my country originally for other reasons then money. Believe me I came to Libya for a couple of months and I liked the society so much that I even called my family here and have stayed here since 1998. I had to leave my beloved country because of Al-Qaida and other similar organisations who were allowed to operate unchecked. I shall go back immediately as soon as I found out the situation plausible at home. Meanwhile I feel quite homely here.
Libyan are very loving and considerate people. Some people might have had some bad experience with them, however, I have not had any such experience so far.
Saying bad words in front of Mr. Qaddafi`s house to judge their tolerance is not a good idea. Why on earth one should do that? In sharia everyone has the right to Self respect. This is diabolical propaganda of the west against Libya and Libyan society that have really clouded your perception about the Muslim world.
All Arab societies generally are peaceful, contented and tolerant societies, although the contribution to this orientation on the part of certain governments in the Middle Eat is minimum. Islam is the dominant factor. Governments need to realign their approach to governance, yet, total acceeding to Western democracy is not the answer. There should be some hybrid approach leading to respect to human dignity.
Further God in his own wisdom sent prophets to the Arab world as well as to other nations. He did not leave any people without a warner. The Quran is explicit on this. Every people on earth were warned.
I hope I have made certain things clear.
Wllwisher
syed javed hussain

re: 12

cultured? free? peaceful? trustworthy? - these are the bastards who were blowing up civillian aircrafts just a little while back - try going in front of gaddafi`s house and say something bad about his camels - trustworthy is the best one - they sold out on you the first chance they got - turned over the whole kit they bought from that idiot, a.q. khan - and i dont blame them, they are basically a spineless qaum. there is no less crime - the numbers are low only because crime is not reported properly in these primitive societies - and, that is a well known fact - cultured? what is so cultured about these people - camel racing? stinky lamb with rice? public beheadings? lets be honest - you are not there for culture - you are there for the money - no one in his/her right mind goes to these places except for money.

i agree that my experience with these people is limited - i once spent couple of weeks in hejaz (had gone there for umrah) - and will probably not go there again. but i do know quite a few people who have lived amongst the bedoos and they all agree that the reason they went there and the reason they stayed there was money - it was not because they liked the people or the place or the culture.

``people are fine and rulers are bad`` excuse is lame. they have the rulers they deserve. these are the same people who murdered in cold blood, usman, talha, zubayr, ali, hassan, hussain, abdur rehman to name just a few. these dumbasses have been spreading their messages of hate, racism, aparthied, etc. for years. no one is buying the israel excuse anymore. these people need to learn how to behave like civilized people.

think about it - have you ever heard of a prophet sent to china? no. south asia? i dont think so. abroginies, the mayas, incas, aztecs, the north american plains indians - they have no prophets, there are no revelations - in europe, did the greeks or romans need a prophet? heck no! in the whole wide world, god almighty saw no reason to disturb the people`s way of life. it was only in arabia that he just couldnt take it anymore and had to intervene - i mean these guys were so bad (according to our islamiat book), and so disgusting that allah decided that he must take action and sent amongst them guidance. just look at these people now - dont you think they need some more divine intervention? - but the problem, shah ji, is that there are no more prophets available according to the good book. all that divine intervention, wahi, etc. business is over.

Re: # 11
Libya is a cultured and peaceful society:
It is quite personal however I shall answer this time. ``you have probably survived living in libya by being some shiekh`s b1tch``

You have no right to accuse every one sweepingly for some faults of others. We don`t have sheikhs here in Libya. It is an open society in its own right. Here everyone is considered equal. People have their own political system. You can agree or disagree with them, however, they are living peacefully and contendedly. I have found that generally people are very God fearing and trustworthy. I have been living here for the last six years and I have found this society very liveable, better then all other so called developed society of the west. I am a widely travelled man and I think I can pass this judgement.

``there is not a single arab government which gives basic human rights to their own citizens``

You are right however, how have you got the right to blame people for the faults of their rulers. People are alright and are living peacefully according to the dictats of Islam, althought they may be some problems of interpretations of the basic teachings of Islam. They have less crimes as generally people are God fearing.
syed javed hussain

re: #10

so the only country in the region which has a democratic government, where the other basics of civilization occur in abundance (achievments in arts, sciences, engineering, music, literature, etc.) is a negation of all that is good according to you - whereas these arabs with their medieval sickness are representatives of goodness. Lets see now, there is not a single arab government which gives basic human rights to their own citizens let alone people from other nations (you have probably survived living in libya by being some shiekh`s b1tch). These people have contributed nothing, zero, nada, nichts to the humanity in ages with the exception of prehaps, falafel. if these gutless, spineless cowards dont want to do anything about the israelis (they will probably sh1t in their pants at the idea of israeli army marching on them) what are you whinning about it.

Re: # 8
Dear Mr. pmishra2,
It is a horrible chain of thinking with complete disregard to humanity and human values. Yes Israeli soldiers are well trained how to deal with unarmed, non combatant, women and children of occupied lands. And those who defy occupation they are very conveniently branded as terrorists. They only thing which disturbs me in the whole battle for independence in the Middle East is suicider bomb blasts, otherwise, Palestinians are the flag bearers of all that matters as human being and the government of Isrrael, not civilian Israelis although the majority of them returns the government, which is Zionist in its agenda, is symbolic to negation of all that stands for humanity and its civil institutions. I perceive that despite the efforts of world leaders to curb terrorism, which unfortunately is the offshoot of resistence movements, the world will be lesser safe than even today if problems of independence of Palestine in the middle east and Kashmir in South Asia are not solved amicably according to the wishes of the people concerned. syed javed hussain

Re: # 8
It is horrible chain of thinking with complete disregard to humanity and human values. Yes Israeli soldiers are well trained how to deal with unarmed, non combatant, women and children of occupied lands. And those who defy occupation they are very conveniently branded as terrorists. They only thing which disturbs me in the whole battle for independence in the Middle East is suicider bomb blasts, otherwise, Palestinians are the flag bearers of all that matters as human being and the government of Isrrael, not civilian Israelis although the majority of them returns the government, which is Zionist in its agenda, is symbolic to negation of all that stands for humanity and its civil institutions. I perceive that despite the efforts of world leaders to curb terrorism, which unfortunately is the offshoot of resistence movements, the world will be lesser safe than even today if problems of independence of Palestine in the middle east and Kashmir in South Asia are not solved amicably according to the wishes of the concerned people.

The usual bevakoofy and hate speech here. The palestinians are very, very lucky to be dealing with the israelis. Israel is a mature democratic society and its forces are trained to avoid excessive civilian casualties.

If you compare israel to saudi arabia, it is like comparing a human to a monkey. Fortunately, not all middle-eastern states are as grossly debased as the saudis, otherwise there would no hope. But even the best of them are closed societies with authoritarian models.

Just imagine, if the palestinians were dealing with fellow arabs in this conflict. Probably not a single one would be alive today.

The usual bevakoofy and hate speech here. The palestinians are very, very lucky to be dealing with the israelis. Israel is a mature democratic society and its forces are trained to avoid excessive civilian casualties.

If you compare israel to saudi arabia, it is like comparing a human to a monkey. Fortunately, not all middle-eastern states are as grossly debased as the saudis, otherwise there would no hope. But even the best of them are closed societies with authoritarian models.

Just imagine, if the palestinians were dealing with fellow arabs in this conflict. Probably not a single one would be alive today.

Re: # 5
I think it will answer all of your observations. Palesltininians problem did not start with september 11. The unfortunate happening in New York only heralded a greater injustice with Palestinians on part of Israel. It provided an opportunity to Zionist extremists to try to crush all opposition brewing in Palestinian areas against occupation. Terrorism cannot be condoned whether it is committed in the name of Islam, Christianity, Judaism or anyother religion.

I forced myself to read through this article even though it was evident after the first couple of lines that it is highly biased! Peace in the middle east will stay elusive until – the Palestinians (1) accept the reality of Israel, (2) wish to live peacefully wherever they are (including those who are inside Israel), and (3) hopefully, build something positive of their existence by working hard (and completely stop the failed approach of violence against civilians)! I hope Mr. Abbas has a better vision than the departed Arafat – otherwise he will end with no better results!

[… Israel, through its powerful media and strong lobby abroad, has created successfully to overshadow its misdeeds and excesses against innocent, unarmed and non-combatant Palestinians including women and children.]
This author’s anti-Israel bias shows right up front! I particularly dislike dishonesty which depicts Israelis (and occasionally, Jews) as this omnipotent force controlling all the powers of media in the U.S. The reality is (and of course the author is not capable of seeing it) that the “Palestinian” cause suffered (perhaps) an irreversible loss –after 9/11 and especially after the scenes of jubiliation following that disastrous event – in other words, don’t blame Israel when you YOURSELF hurt your image so!

[After securing Israel’s borders, the US wants to settle scores with Iran …]
Actually, who knows, Pakistan may be the next on the list!

[Arafat, the very person whose peaceful intentions were recognised worldwide and who also shared the Nobel peace prize in 1994 …]
And what’s a little bit of the blood of innocents!

[Further, the moot question is how much, and to what extent, will the Israelis allow the Palestinians to use scarce resources such as water, electricity and telecommunications for their economic development. These are the areas, which have not been dealt with seriously, and they are as combustible as other political issues highlighting the peace process.]
Why doesn’t the Palestinian leadership bring out and highlight such issues to the attention of the public, especially the U.S. public?

[…the fate of Jerusalem, which is the point of interest to the Muslims across the globe, …]
Oh yes, ...
….that great UMM-MAH, uff-uie-maah!
(Now where did we hear that before?)

re: #2

ashamed? why is that no one comes out and expresses shame for the real evil in the middle east - e.g., the saudis - the most ill-mannered, uncultured, uncivilized, barbaric people in the world who live in that neighbourhood - apartheid, injustice, discrimination, corruption, you name it and every type of sickness exists there in abundance. pick up the ``arab news`` and read about the filipino maids who get raped and beaten up on a daily basis - the minorities who are persecuted and the expats who are exploited and abused on a daily basis. 90% of the labor force is foriegn and so what does abdullah do in his free time which he has plenty of - he exports his medieval and sick ideas to the rest of the world - he thinks that he is doing a great deed when a youngster from leeds becomes mentally sick from wahabism and salafism. if he is not raping some miskeen on fridays he goes to the chop-chop square after the prayers for some live entertainment - a soccer game is simply too boring. what a bunch of sickos.

atrocity my foot - these baboons should learn from the israelis a few things about civilization and then maybe the israelis will feel a little comfortable talking with these abdullahs.

One thing is very hard to understand-

Why are pakistanis so worried about the suffering of palestinians/iraqis when millions of their countrymen (more than all palestinians and other muslims suffering worldwide ,combined) are suffering because of slavery, bonded labor, poverty, forced prostitution, exploitation of women by hudood ordinance, etc., etc., etc. These are not foreign creation but just plain very bad native local governance. It is easy to worry about other people`s problems and blame the West for all the ills of muslims but after 58 years of independence when will the Pakistanis take care of their problems instead of letting it fester and become world problem.

Below are some problems to keep busy about

Afghan refugees sold into prostitution and indentured servitude flourishes
http://www.bostonphoenix.com/boston/news_features/top/features/documents/02161800.htm

Bonded labor (debt slavery) rampant in Pakistan
http://www.scottishsocialistvoice.net/pakistan/Pakistan9.html


These are just 2 articles. You will find tonnes of other problems that need urgent attention within Pakistan itself.

Re: # 1
Dear cayenne, as you already know, venturing out for peace is a human need, a prerequisite for growth and development, a basis for human dignity and honour, and an inspirational push for the advancement of human civilisation. What is happening in the Middle East ashames all human beings. We must all pool down our resources; intellectual, spiritual and material, to put an end to this atrocity.

This process has become a vicious cycle that can spiral out of control at any given moment.The British are to blame for the current troubles in the Middle east.But, they have been rendered impotent and can`t even take care of their own country.They also need american money to keep their economy afloat.There will never be peace in the region.There never has been.Why all the fuss?.People adapt and will continue to eke out an existence in tenuous circumstances.