Pakistan’s Choice

$503 Friend`s hostility!!
Hai ram! yeh kya keh rahe ho!!
Mere dil ke huzaar tukde kar ke rakh diye, zalim. Aab mein iss jindagi se kya ummedein rakhun!

Though Godot is correct about you. Even though you did show your colors earlier, you appears to be fun

Re: # 504

It is completely up to Mr Elahi... its his crossroads...

Re: # 503

Salim,

The article itself is quite serious. However, this board is bursting with fun, with some seriousness thrown into it. You should stick around. You light-up this board. You`re both intellingent and fun.

Manto,
You once referred to Haroon beta as a budding McCarthy. Did you mean Joe or Jenny?

With Shankar`s Indorap, Mohar`s godliness, haroon`s McCarthyism, Manto`s disclaimers, Friend`s hostility, Romair`s stupidity, and Ajeya`s sermons, it is time for GODot to terminate this forum.
I am ashamed to breath the same oxygen with this crowd. :)
Salim

Re: # 492

Shankar Mian .... Shankar Mian .... this is Allah speaking.... Yes, this is really me, Allah..... No son, you are not dreaming ..... No you are not dead, you are very much alive.... Now listen - I just wanted to let you know that I have designated Mohar11 as my direct representative on earth .... He has the authority to act as Allah every once in a while and also - he is appointed as judge and jurror in Chowk....

Yeah, I know, that`s not fair ... you should have been given that role you being a shrink and all ... but that`s my decision. Now you boys play nice otherwise I will ask Mohar11 to hit you with a thunder or something....

Allah Hafiz ... err, I mean , Me Hafiz .... err... whatever....

Godot has written a nice analysis of choices that Pakistan must make.

There is need of similar introspection in India. While we are euphoric with ``india shining campaign``, we must make some good decisions about how to maximse gains from this spurt of prosperity. While future for India looks promising, it was also looking promising for asian tiger economies in 80s. Unstable and unreliable basic infrastructure, recently exposed again by Mumbai rains, shows fragility of our economy.

Ladies and gentlemen,

I wish to make one thing abundantly clear to all those who are reading this board:

I have never ever taught Mr Haroon Elahi, nor have I been every associated with any faculty of any of the educational institutions he might have attended.

Hence there is no teacher-student pissing match here. I did teach Don`s class but he has already apologised for his bad behavior earlier. Mr Elahi`s problem is simply that others have a conception of Pakistan slightly or perhaps immensely different from his and therefore he chooses to call them traitors. Therefore I humbly submit that it is unfair to describe this as teacher-student pissing contest...

re: #488 by godot

[Re: # 457 & 462

Romair,

You ask too many questions and say too much in one post and keep going off in tangent. That reflects only your convoluted and spaghetti-like thought process. Please stick to one thought at a time before you run off with another thought in the same post, so it can be clearly debated. Also, a succinct and a clear post from you would definitely help me in not skipping what you have to say. ]


I couldn`t have said it better.


But there is method to his madness. He recognizes that there is danger in answering questions point-by-point. In rambling essay-type musings, he can attempt to confuse and bluster his way out of the frequent logical problems he finds himself in.

Re: #482 by tahmed32


[On sharia: Sharia is not the word of God. It is simply judicial decisions made over the centuries by qazis appointed by kings.]


Lies, as usual. Here`s a quote:

``The Qur`an is the principal source of Islamic law, the Sharia. It contains the rules by which the Muslim world is governed (or should govern itself) and forms the basis for relations between man and God, between individuals, whether Muslim or non-Muslim, as well as between man and things which are part of creation. The Sharia contains the rules by which a Muslim society is organized and governed, and it provides the means to resolve conflicts among individuals and between the individual and the state.

There is no dispute among Muslims that the Qur`an is the basis of the Sharia and that its specific provisions are to be scrupulously observed. The Hadith and Sunna are complementary sources to the Qur`an and consist of the sayings of the Prophet and accounts of his deeds. The Sunna helps to explain the Qur`an, but it may not be interpreted or applied in any way which is inconsistent with the Qur`an.



Though there are other sources of law—i.e., ijma`, (consensus), qiyas, (analogy), ijtihad, (progressive reasoning by analogy)—the Qur`an is the first and foremost source, followed by the Hadith and Sunna. Other sources of law and rules of interpretation of the Qur`an and the Hadith and Sunna follow in accordance with a generally accepted jurisprudential scheme.


The Qur`an contains a variety of law-making provisions and legal proscriptions interspersed throughout its chapters (suwar) and verses (ayat). A number of rules exist for interpreting these provisions, such as the position of a given ayah within the context of the surah, which in turn is interpreted in accordance with its place in the sequence of revelations, its reference to other revelations, and its historical context in relation to particular conditions which existed at the time of the given revelation. These and other rules are known as the science of interpretation (ilm usul aI-fiqh). According to these rules, for example, one initially is to refer to a specific provision and then to a general provision dealing with a particular situation. No general provision can be interpreted to contradict a specific provision, and a specific rule will supersede a general proposition. A general provision, however, is always interpreted in the broadest manner, while a specific provision is interpreted in the narrowest manner. Reasoning by analogy is permitted, as are applications by analogy, except where expressly prohibited. Simplicity and clear language are always preferred. Similarly, the clear spirit of certain prescriptions cannot be altered by inconsistent interpretations. A policy-oriented interpretation within the confines of the rules of jurisprudence is permissible and even recommended, as is the case with the doctrine of ijtihad (progressive reasoning by analogy). ``



[On the tax on dhimmis (religious minorities): Is there any muslim country that has such a tax today?? No. Does anyone in Pakistan even refer to religious minorities as ``dhimmis``? No. ]

Not so fast.

You may not do it because of potential consequences, international and otherwise.

But according to Allah`s commands (the Quran), MUSLIMS ARE SUPPOSED TO.

So just because you are currently not doing it MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING..


[Have elected (or even unelected) national level leaders in any muslim country lead attacks on religious minorities as in India? No. ]

Advani was involved in the demolition of the Babri Masjid, not killing even one person. The first human being killed after that, AS USUAL, was by a muslim mob in Bombay. And then thousands of innocent Hindu men, women and children were butchered in Bangladesh, Pakistan and Afganistan. MANY temples were razed to the ground. The national leaders there did nothing. No investigation, no public protests - nothing.

In Gujarat in 2002, of the total deaths (as per the home ministry`s official annual report for 2002-2003, page 6), about a third were Hindus (including 59 charred in a train compartment) and 200 in all were killed in police firing. If, at one stage, 100,000 Muslims were struggling in relief camps, so were 40,000 Hindus.

Ask me, and I`ll quote hundreds of incidents of Hindus being murdered in Pakistan and Bangladesh AS WE SPEAK TODAY by ruling party members in Pakiland and Bangladesh.

You guys are nothing more than VERY low-class garbage. And the world knows it.



[So, go and fix the problems among your own hindus, then come talk to me about religion or anything else. ]

Everywhere in the world, Pakis/Muslims are LOOKED DOWN UPON. Just listen to the people calling into the talk shows on radio here. EVERYONE LOATHES YOU GUYS. EVERYBODY. PRIVATELY AMERICANS LAUGH AND JOKE ABOUT YOUR PEDOPHILE PROPHET AND HIS 12 (at the minimum) WIVES AND HIS DOZENS OF SLAVE GIRLS WHO HE USED FOR SEX AND THE 6-YEAR-OLD HE WANTED TO MARRY.

Hindus are welcome and respected everywhere. As is Hindu philosphy.



[Last post to you. I am not interested in discussing anything with you. ]

Of course. Because you have no answer.

Godot #488: Before I answer your questions, I need to ask you a few:

- Were you born in the USA
- If you migrated to the USA, at what age
- Have you ever worked, as a professional, in Pakistan

The reason I am asking these, is to get an idea of your experiences in Pakistan, to see where you are coming from. Since you have stated, that you got your ideas, ``from looking around.`` Were you looking around in Pakistan, or outside Pakistan. Just in Pakistan` English press or do you follow the Urdu press also. I think in the end, like I said earlier, Pakistan needs to do what Pakistanis want. Not what ex-Pakistanis want......

In my opinion, good governance and economic growth is the answer. I have a lot of issues with people who are tied up with discussing mullahs and non-mullahs all the time. There is a world beyond that........As I keep telling you, mullahs are just a problem. Not the biggest problem. The best way to judge the biggest problem, in a third-world country, is to see who are the financial beneficiaries of the corrupt system. That would be you and I. Perhaps we should start looking at ourselves, as well...........For some reason, you seem quite hesitant to do so........

shrinkman: Is your enter key stuck?

Shankar mian
Kyon! such baat karwi hoti hai?

All this f&ck and sh!t that you are spreading for last few days - is that not an image of what you have in your own mind? While kids are busy in their pissing match, you are also entering akhara trying to feel the boys!

Re: # 493

Yo!
friend!!
Dont give up your day job!

Lay-people`s mind (like yours) have a ...
VERY SICK IMAGINATION...

So keep it to yourself...OK?!

mohar#489
It is kind of strange... all these oldtimers having their favorite ``boys`` on chowk. I wondered earlier too and our buttess number chacha blew his handle.

Now we have Romair with his ``boys`` and Shankar with his ``boy``... Kind of freakish!!

Re: # 489

{{this kind of animosity points towards some deep-rooted issues}}

Listen pal;
leave ``psychoanalysing ylh`s mind`` to experts;
OK?!...

I`ve known this guy on Chowk...
since he was a snot-nosed kid in Rutgers...

I dont benefit (in anyway) from ...
polishing ylh`s apple...
OK?!!

{{somehow I feel YLH has his fare share of the culpability in this sordid afffair of student-teacher p!ssing contest.}}

And just who da` f*ck died..
& made YOU Allah...
or judge or juror on Chowk?!...for that matter..

Its in very poor taste that that dukkar Elahi uses a public message board to assassinate a fellow Chowkies character...

Just because YOU dont like ylh...
doesnt make it OK