Pakistan’s Choice
Godot July 28, 2005
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#474 Posted by MantoLives on August 4, 2005 3:59:51 am
Re: # 472
All friendly/decent/dignified communication from anyone is welcome...
All friendly/decent/dignified communication from anyone is welcome...
#473 Posted by harish_hyd on August 4, 2005 3:49:50 am
#472 by Mantolives
Yasser, can you not block Haroon`s messages? I think you can. Try it out.
Yasser, can you not block Haroon`s messages? I think you can. Try it out.
#472 Posted by MantoLives on August 4, 2005 3:48:22 am
Dear Haroon,
Please refrain from leaving threatening messages on the MSN. This is a discussion forum and it should not give you sanction to threaten me in person.
-YLH
#471 Posted by ballukhan on August 4, 2005 3:28:48 am
BTW,
Any Chowkis who were invited for any of the Dawood ibrahim`s daughter`s nikah etc ceremonies????
Any Chowkis who were invited for any of the Dawood ibrahim`s daughter`s nikah etc ceremonies????
#470 Posted by ballukhan on August 4, 2005 3:16:46 am
Somebody advised us politely to stop chasing mullahs....................
that is exactly what we have been doing for a long time......it is time to watch them and their women folk getting chased by these mullahs with their sticks once the Hasba bill also comes to their Punjab province!!!
I know I know, they would harangue us with the `actual` political situation on the ground and how the Hasba bill can never come to Punjab!!!
that is exactly what we have been doing for a long time......it is time to watch them and their women folk getting chased by these mullahs with their sticks once the Hasba bill also comes to their Punjab province!!!
I know I know, they would harangue us with the `actual` political situation on the ground and how the Hasba bill can never come to Punjab!!!
#469 Posted by MantoLives on August 4, 2005 1:52:40 am
Re: # 468
.... not to mention Dr Shankar`s cyber therapy and guidance... in the early years of chowk.
.... not to mention Dr Shankar`s cyber therapy and guidance... in the early years of chowk.
#468 Posted by MantoLives on August 4, 2005 1:45:56 am
Re: # 467
PS : Yes I did go to the same school for O/A Levels and APs the biggest mistake of my life... my parents are professionals and they thought it would be a good investment...
Looking back at it I think it gave me a lot of complexes but no real education... I owe what little education I have to a few libraries in the North East of the United states... and a few musuems.. and this website.
PS : Yes I did go to the same school for O/A Levels and APs the biggest mistake of my life... my parents are professionals and they thought it would be a good investment...
Looking back at it I think it gave me a lot of complexes but no real education... I owe what little education I have to a few libraries in the North East of the United states... and a few musuems.. and this website.
#467 Posted by MantoLives on August 4, 2005 1:22:01 am
Haroon,
I have not abused and insulted you- yet you keep writing ilogs after ilogs about me. Will you please get your head out of your arse? I did write that post (which has no manifesto) in which I said that I need to get off my butt and create the resources of standing up politically against the hereditary rich.
What I said in the Islamiyat Class many years ago was perfectly valid and Islamic. I maintain that under classical Islamic jurisprudence it is permissible to pray in the language you know best (instead of going through the motions in a language you don`t understand) and Eid-ul-Fitr was originally a traditional Arab holiday - I did not say Eid was bad... personally (EMPHASIS on personally) I would prefer 14th August as a holiday.
Don,
I have nothing against you being rich. Not being the socialist type- I do not have a prejudice against the rich. Infact had you cared to read, I praised your family but I never did have any respect for you and today you have vindicated my gutt feeling. You are the one who resorted to personal attacks and abuse. I have not addressed any post to you, but your name has come up in the passing because your friend Haroon Elahi has been bringing you up again and again in his posts.
-YLH
I have not abused and insulted you- yet you keep writing ilogs after ilogs about me. Will you please get your head out of your arse? I did write that post (which has no manifesto) in which I said that I need to get off my butt and create the resources of standing up politically against the hereditary rich.
What I said in the Islamiyat Class many years ago was perfectly valid and Islamic. I maintain that under classical Islamic jurisprudence it is permissible to pray in the language you know best (instead of going through the motions in a language you don`t understand) and Eid-ul-Fitr was originally a traditional Arab holiday - I did not say Eid was bad... personally (EMPHASIS on personally) I would prefer 14th August as a holiday.
Don,
I have nothing against you being rich. Not being the socialist type- I do not have a prejudice against the rich. Infact had you cared to read, I praised your family but I never did have any respect for you and today you have vindicated my gutt feeling. You are the one who resorted to personal attacks and abuse. I have not addressed any post to you, but your name has come up in the passing because your friend Haroon Elahi has been bringing you up again and again in his posts.
-YLH
#466 Posted by ajeya on August 4, 2005 12:12:14 am
#456 by tahmed32
[Has anyone bothered to read the Quran and understand its fundamental message - which, as I said earlier, places responsibility on the INDIVIDUAL, NOT on the state, and certainly not on any maulvi or mard-e-momin, for implementation of the message.]
So then what is the possible circumstance where the Sharia would be applicable?
And which entity is supposed to collect the Jezia tax (protection money) from the wretched dhimmis?
There`s a million more questions like these, but I thought I would begin with these obvious two.
[Has anyone bothered to read the Quran and understand its fundamental message - which, as I said earlier, places responsibility on the INDIVIDUAL, NOT on the state, and certainly not on any maulvi or mard-e-momin, for implementation of the message.]
So then what is the possible circumstance where the Sharia would be applicable?
And which entity is supposed to collect the Jezia tax (protection money) from the wretched dhimmis?
There`s a million more questions like these, but I thought I would begin with these obvious two.
#465 Posted by ajeya on August 3, 2005 11:27:39 pm
Re: 426 by haroonellahi
[The term, `Secular Islam`, is an oxymoron and was made in highly poor taste. It`s like saying to a conservative Jew that he/she may consume a Kosher Cheese Burger, or saying to the Hindu that you may consume cow meat.
Cultivating a secular mentality however is totally different and it is not an oxymoron. ]
I see, so ``secular Islam`` is an oxymoron.
Okay. Got that one...
Therefore, if you are Islamic, you CANNOT be secular (in your thought and action).
Okay, I`m still hanging on....
But then you CAN develop a secular mindset. Because this is somehow ``totally different``.
Ummmm....what? Really?....This must be very deep.
Who says Chowk posters are without deep insights?
[The term, `Secular Islam`, is an oxymoron and was made in highly poor taste. It`s like saying to a conservative Jew that he/she may consume a Kosher Cheese Burger, or saying to the Hindu that you may consume cow meat.
Cultivating a secular mentality however is totally different and it is not an oxymoron. ]
I see, so ``secular Islam`` is an oxymoron.
Okay. Got that one...
Therefore, if you are Islamic, you CANNOT be secular (in your thought and action).
Okay, I`m still hanging on....
But then you CAN develop a secular mindset. Because this is somehow ``totally different``.
Ummmm....what? Really?....This must be very deep.
Who says Chowk posters are without deep insights?
#464 Posted by majumdar on August 3, 2005 11:01:17 pm
Re: Tahmed 456
On 6., basic economics should tell you that a Common Market does not just about simply because ``muslims`` want it. Economic ties are based on economic realities. The only interest Malaysia has in Pakistan is as a source of some IT people and that is all. Malaysia`s markets are in the developed countries. The only Common Market Turkey wants to join is the European Common Market. Even the arabs dont give a damn for Pakistani`s great love for ``muslim brothers`` - Dubai booted out mullah unceremoniously only yesterday on account of his terrorist ties!! How many ``fellow muslims`` do you see on chowk?? Get real, my young friend. Wake up from the dream world Indian muslims have been living in.
Dear Tahmed Sahib, What has poor haroonellahi done to get the sobriquet ``Indian Muslim``. Surely exhanging a few verbal brickbats with manto cant be that big a crime.
Regards
On 6., basic economics should tell you that a Common Market does not just about simply because ``muslims`` want it. Economic ties are based on economic realities. The only interest Malaysia has in Pakistan is as a source of some IT people and that is all. Malaysia`s markets are in the developed countries. The only Common Market Turkey wants to join is the European Common Market. Even the arabs dont give a damn for Pakistani`s great love for ``muslim brothers`` - Dubai booted out mullah unceremoniously only yesterday on account of his terrorist ties!! How many ``fellow muslims`` do you see on chowk?? Get real, my young friend. Wake up from the dream world Indian muslims have been living in.
Dear Tahmed Sahib, What has poor haroonellahi done to get the sobriquet ``Indian Muslim``. Surely exhanging a few verbal brickbats with manto cant be that big a crime.
Regards
#463 Posted by shankar on August 3, 2005 9:36:35 pm
Re: # 462
{{Perhaps, we need to get out of spinning our wheels around secularism and religion, the whole day. There are other more important things.........}}
Yup!
Keep spinning the wheels of how patriotic you Azaaaad Kashmiri are...
Evidently,
by your schrewd assessment....
the average Pakistani is very humble & bhoola (though patriotic)
Its no wonder that an average Paki...
has ``BOUGHT`` your BS
You are, after all, a product..
of your ``spitting-on-Islam`s face`` LIAR miltry
Americans call..
``Military Intelligence`` an OXYMORON!....
``World-famous`` Paki-military ...
is the BIGGEST oxy-MORON...
& they have ruled your blighted country
for most of its sad history...
Is it ANY wonder...
that ``the world-renowned`` Gen. Mushy...
has to come to Amrika...hat in hand..
or sends his Citibank chela Shaukat Aziz..
to ask for..
for BHEEK from Washington...
And PARITY with India...!!!
Yaar, Bush ...
AINT AS DUMB AS HE LOOKS & ACTS!!!
We NRIs have made DAMN sure he listens to US..
& he takes VERY GOOD NOTES!:)))
{{Perhaps, we need to get out of spinning our wheels around secularism and religion, the whole day. There are other more important things.........}}
Yup!
Keep spinning the wheels of how patriotic you Azaaaad Kashmiri are...
Evidently,
by your schrewd assessment....
the average Pakistani is very humble & bhoola (though patriotic)
Its no wonder that an average Paki...
has ``BOUGHT`` your BS
You are, after all, a product..
of your ``spitting-on-Islam`s face`` LIAR miltry
Americans call..
``Military Intelligence`` an OXYMORON!....
``World-famous`` Paki-military ...
is the BIGGEST oxy-MORON...
& they have ruled your blighted country
for most of its sad history...
Is it ANY wonder...
that ``the world-renowned`` Gen. Mushy...
has to come to Amrika...hat in hand..
or sends his Citibank chela Shaukat Aziz..
to ask for..
for BHEEK from Washington...
And PARITY with India...!!!
Yaar, Bush ...
AINT AS DUMB AS HE LOOKS & ACTS!!!
We NRIs have made DAMN sure he listens to US..
& he takes VERY GOOD NOTES!:)))
#462 Posted by Romair on August 3, 2005 9:00:17 pm
Godot #various: I think, perhaps, our (yours and mine) energies would be better spent, trying to discuss good governance and point out bad governance. Rather than habitually chasing the ghosts of mullahism and secularism, twenty-four hours a day - two concepts that cannot fill an empty stomach.........
Use that as the criteria, and Pakistan will be much better off........
As an example, from what I have read the NWFP MMA govt. isn`t providing good governance. Criticise them for that. Not for merely being a maulvi party. On the other hand, Karachi has a Jamaat-i-Islami mayor, named Naimatullah. He is an old guy (70+), with a long white beard. Karachi, as you know has been one of the most maladministrated cities in Pakistan; perhaps the world. All the MQM govts. have screwed up the city, and have turned it into their private ranch of violence. MQM, by the way, is probably the most secular party in Pakistan.
I haven`t been to Karachi for ages. But whomever I run into seems to say that Naimatullah is doing a good job. I even talked with a lady, who is a business executive. She had a meeting with him, and even she was impressed. As were the foreigner ladies accompanying her. I have heard him debate MQM wallahs on TV, and he alwasy provides stats which show far more honesty in his govt. than in the previous MQM govts.
Once again, I was not sure, so I did some more research. There is a website called, http://www.worldmayor.com/. Apparently Naimatullah is one of the 65 finalists for the award. Only 9 out of Asia are finalists.
I still wasn`t sure, because the site could be a fly-by-nite piece. So I did some more research. Cowasjee is a Parsi journalist in Karachi. He criticizes anyone and everyone, in the govt. Naimat is a Jamaat-i-Islami man. The last thing one would expect someone from a religious minority to say about him, is something positive. Right......
Well, Cowasjee says the following: ``the outgoing City Nazim, having virtually been our Lord Mayor, the crisply fiscally honest Naimatullah Khan`` (www.dawn.com).
Now Naimatullah is not secular (neither is Imran Khan, mind you). While Altaf Hussain is secular. Whom would you want running Karachi? If the above is true, my vote in Peshawar goes against Qazi Hussain, but my vote in Karachi goes for Naimatullah..........
Perhaps, we need to get out of spinning our wheels around secularism and religion, the whole day. There are other more important things.........
Use that as the criteria, and Pakistan will be much better off........
As an example, from what I have read the NWFP MMA govt. isn`t providing good governance. Criticise them for that. Not for merely being a maulvi party. On the other hand, Karachi has a Jamaat-i-Islami mayor, named Naimatullah. He is an old guy (70+), with a long white beard. Karachi, as you know has been one of the most maladministrated cities in Pakistan; perhaps the world. All the MQM govts. have screwed up the city, and have turned it into their private ranch of violence. MQM, by the way, is probably the most secular party in Pakistan.
I haven`t been to Karachi for ages. But whomever I run into seems to say that Naimatullah is doing a good job. I even talked with a lady, who is a business executive. She had a meeting with him, and even she was impressed. As were the foreigner ladies accompanying her. I have heard him debate MQM wallahs on TV, and he alwasy provides stats which show far more honesty in his govt. than in the previous MQM govts.
Once again, I was not sure, so I did some more research. There is a website called, http://www.worldmayor.com/. Apparently Naimatullah is one of the 65 finalists for the award. Only 9 out of Asia are finalists.
I still wasn`t sure, because the site could be a fly-by-nite piece. So I did some more research. Cowasjee is a Parsi journalist in Karachi. He criticizes anyone and everyone, in the govt. Naimat is a Jamaat-i-Islami man. The last thing one would expect someone from a religious minority to say about him, is something positive. Right......
Well, Cowasjee says the following: ``the outgoing City Nazim, having virtually been our Lord Mayor, the crisply fiscally honest Naimatullah Khan`` (www.dawn.com).
Now Naimatullah is not secular (neither is Imran Khan, mind you). While Altaf Hussain is secular. Whom would you want running Karachi? If the above is true, my vote in Peshawar goes against Qazi Hussain, but my vote in Karachi goes for Naimatullah..........
Perhaps, we need to get out of spinning our wheels around secularism and religion, the whole day. There are other more important things.........
#461 Posted by shankar on August 3, 2005 8:42:45 pm
Re: # 451
Godot,
{{When lost an election, a peaceful transfer of power to the winner. Once in power, Pakistani mullahs are highly unlikely to do that. In fact, once in power, Pakistani mullahs will so quickly and so radically suffocate everyone in Pakistan that people like you, me, and Haroon will not have time to cry, “mommy.” }}
Well SAID boss!
Jeete raho..
GUYS like you SHOULD keep on hitting his spin bowling for 6-ers...
these Azaaaaaaaaaaad Kashmiris have HIJACKED your country!!!!
& DESTROYED the past & present lives of MILLIONS of ordinary Pakistanis
(ask his mentor, Bukhri)...if you dont believe me....
whose ONLY demand is to put food on the table,
safe drinking water for their families
educate their children...
be allowed to visit their split up families in India...
BUT ...
(There is ALWAYS a goddamned BUTT{head} to thwart Pakistan)...
These Azaaaaad Kashmiri ButtHEADS
have been PAMPERED by Pakistan...
given all the ``benefits`` of Paki ``AFFIRMATIVE ACTION``
Because of their IDIOTIC ``pleas`` to ``SAVE``...
``poor, abused muslim salves`` in IOK!!
That is MUSIC to the ears of the Pakistani ideology!
The BITTER truth...
which we Indians have found out for ourselves
is that AZAAAAAAAAD Kashmir is...
much less developed than ``ENSLAVED`` Kashmir!!!!!!!
This ``spin doctoring`` of how much BETTER OFF Azaaaaaaaad Kashmiris are....
Is just THAT....
SPIN DOCTORING!!!!!!
by Azaaaaad Kashmiri b@stard hypocrites...
who will live in the comfort of Canuckistan (NOT Azaaaaad Kashmir)...
And lament about the enslaved lives of their katlu cousins...
living on the wrong side of the border...
Er...I takethat back...
``TRAPPED`` on the wrong side of the border...
YEAH RIGHT!!!!
Now that the bus service is on...
Are we seeing HOARDS of Kashmiri slaves ...
MAKING A BEEELINE for ...
Azaaaaad Kashmir?!!
No! NO!! NO!!!!!!
The proof of the pudding...
is in the SEEING!!
Remember,
``Walking the HIGH ROAD``...
is the last refuge of a scoundrel...
whose ``noble cause``...
is SINKING faster than the TITANIC!!!
Khuda Hafiz!
Godot,
{{When lost an election, a peaceful transfer of power to the winner. Once in power, Pakistani mullahs are highly unlikely to do that. In fact, once in power, Pakistani mullahs will so quickly and so radically suffocate everyone in Pakistan that people like you, me, and Haroon will not have time to cry, “mommy.” }}
Well SAID boss!
Jeete raho..
GUYS like you SHOULD keep on hitting his spin bowling for 6-ers...
these Azaaaaaaaaaaad Kashmiris have HIJACKED your country!!!!
& DESTROYED the past & present lives of MILLIONS of ordinary Pakistanis
(ask his mentor, Bukhri)...if you dont believe me....
whose ONLY demand is to put food on the table,
safe drinking water for their families
educate their children...
be allowed to visit their split up families in India...
BUT ...
(There is ALWAYS a goddamned BUTT{head} to thwart Pakistan)...
These Azaaaaad Kashmiri ButtHEADS
have been PAMPERED by Pakistan...
given all the ``benefits`` of Paki ``AFFIRMATIVE ACTION``
Because of their IDIOTIC ``pleas`` to ``SAVE``...
``poor, abused muslim salves`` in IOK!!
That is MUSIC to the ears of the Pakistani ideology!
The BITTER truth...
which we Indians have found out for ourselves
is that AZAAAAAAAAD Kashmir is...
much less developed than ``ENSLAVED`` Kashmir!!!!!!!
This ``spin doctoring`` of how much BETTER OFF Azaaaaaaaad Kashmiris are....
Is just THAT....
SPIN DOCTORING!!!!!!
by Azaaaaad Kashmiri b@stard hypocrites...
who will live in the comfort of Canuckistan (NOT Azaaaaad Kashmir)...
And lament about the enslaved lives of their katlu cousins...
living on the wrong side of the border...
Er...I takethat back...
``TRAPPED`` on the wrong side of the border...
YEAH RIGHT!!!!
Now that the bus service is on...
Are we seeing HOARDS of Kashmiri slaves ...
MAKING A BEEELINE for ...
Azaaaaad Kashmir?!!
No! NO!! NO!!!!!!
The proof of the pudding...
is in the SEEING!!
Remember,
``Walking the HIGH ROAD``...
is the last refuge of a scoundrel...
whose ``noble cause``...
is SINKING faster than the TITANIC!!!
Khuda Hafiz!
#460 Posted by shankar on August 3, 2005 8:42:02 pm
Re: # 451
Godot,
{{When lost an election, a peaceful transfer of power to the winner. Once in power, Pakistani mullahs are highly unlikely to do that. In fact, once in power, Pakistani mullahs will so quickly and so radically suffocate everyone in Pakistan that people like you, me, and Haroon will not have time to cry, “mommy.” }}
Well SAID boss!
Jeete raho..
GUYS like you SHOULD keep on hitting his spin bowling for 6-ers...
these Azaaaaaaaaaaad Kashmiris have HIJACKED your country!!!!
& DESTROYED the past & present lives of MILLIONS of ordinary Pakistanis
(ask his mentor, Bukhri)...if you dont believe me....
whose ONLY demand is to put food on the table,
safe drinking water for their families
educate their children...
be allowed to visit their split up families in India...
BUT ...
(There is ALWAYS a goddamned BUTT{head} to thwart Pakistan)...
These Azaaaaad Kashmiri ButtHEADS
have been PAMPERED by Pakistan...
given all the ``benefits`` of Paki ``AFFIRMATIVE ACTION``
Because of their IDIOTIC ``pleas`` to ``SAVE``...
``poor, abused muslim salves`` in IOK!!
That is MUSIC to the ears of the Pakistani ideology!
The BITTER truth...
which we Indians have found out for ourselves
is that AZAAAAAAAAD Kashmir is...
much less developed than ``ENSLAVED`` Kashmir!!!!!!!
This ``spin doctoring`` of how much BETTER OFF Azaaaaaaaad Kashmiris are....
Is just THAT....
SPIN DOCTORING!!!!!!
by Azaaaaad Kashmiri b@stard hypocrites...
who will live in the comfort of Canuckistan (NOT Azaaaaad Kashmir)...
And lament about the enslaved lives of their katlu cousins...
living on the wrong side of the border...
Er...I takethat back...
``TRAPPED`` on the wrong side of the border...
YEAH RIGHT!!!!
Now that the bus service is on...
Are we seeing HOARDS of Kashmiri slaves ...
MAKING A BEEELINE for ...
Azaaaaad Kashmir?!!
No! NO!! NO!!!!!!
The proof of the pudding...
is in the SEEING!!
Remember,
``Walking the HIGH ROAD``...
is the last refuge of a scoundrel...
whose ``noble cause``...
is SINKING faster than the TITANIC!!!
Khuda Hafiz!
Godot,
{{When lost an election, a peaceful transfer of power to the winner. Once in power, Pakistani mullahs are highly unlikely to do that. In fact, once in power, Pakistani mullahs will so quickly and so radically suffocate everyone in Pakistan that people like you, me, and Haroon will not have time to cry, “mommy.” }}
Well SAID boss!
Jeete raho..
GUYS like you SHOULD keep on hitting his spin bowling for 6-ers...
these Azaaaaaaaaaaad Kashmiris have HIJACKED your country!!!!
& DESTROYED the past & present lives of MILLIONS of ordinary Pakistanis
(ask his mentor, Bukhri)...if you dont believe me....
whose ONLY demand is to put food on the table,
safe drinking water for their families
educate their children...
be allowed to visit their split up families in India...
BUT ...
(There is ALWAYS a goddamned BUTT{head} to thwart Pakistan)...
These Azaaaaad Kashmiri ButtHEADS
have been PAMPERED by Pakistan...
given all the ``benefits`` of Paki ``AFFIRMATIVE ACTION``
Because of their IDIOTIC ``pleas`` to ``SAVE``...
``poor, abused muslim salves`` in IOK!!
That is MUSIC to the ears of the Pakistani ideology!
The BITTER truth...
which we Indians have found out for ourselves
is that AZAAAAAAAAD Kashmir is...
much less developed than ``ENSLAVED`` Kashmir!!!!!!!
This ``spin doctoring`` of how much BETTER OFF Azaaaaaaaad Kashmiris are....
Is just THAT....
SPIN DOCTORING!!!!!!
by Azaaaaad Kashmiri b@stard hypocrites...
who will live in the comfort of Canuckistan (NOT Azaaaaad Kashmir)...
And lament about the enslaved lives of their katlu cousins...
living on the wrong side of the border...
Er...I takethat back...
``TRAPPED`` on the wrong side of the border...
YEAH RIGHT!!!!
Now that the bus service is on...
Are we seeing HOARDS of Kashmiri slaves ...
MAKING A BEEELINE for ...
Azaaaaad Kashmir?!!
No! NO!! NO!!!!!!
The proof of the pudding...
is in the SEEING!!
Remember,
``Walking the HIGH ROAD``...
is the last refuge of a scoundrel...
whose ``noble cause``...
is SINKING faster than the TITANIC!!!
Khuda Hafiz!
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