Women's Voices in the Pakistan Movement

One way to look at this Queen Latifa Hamdani is that while in the polyglotic society, even muslim males got exposed to women in facets of life other than behind the veil. But when left to a single religion dominated framework of governance they regressed back to the 7th century a.d.

#28 by Kulharee

[Every time someone starts a sentence with “I” ...]
I suppose you don`t subscribe to an “I” for an “I” line of reasoning!
Eye see!
Do, do, do like you say - not say, say, say like they do!

[...specially for uneducated working class schmuks like me and Chaltoo.]
And here I thought I had the category all hogged up by myself!

Now, how do we tie up all of the above (apparently irrelevant) discussion to women`s issue in contemporary Pakistan? Let me explain.

If Pakistani women had not participated in the ``struggle`` for ``independence`` which Manto describes in the present article using his very own true-to-the-form and one-of-a-kind (as distinct from one-of-a-cash (we ARE talking the chowk, after all!)) eloquence - perhaps Pakistan would not be what it is today - perhaps it would still be a part of India, in which case we won`t have the current mess - the Pakistani population would not be saddled with all those Mullahs, and the khakis would know where they legitimately belong (no, I don`t mean the dustbin) and religious tolerance and women`s equality would not be a ``dream`` it would be a simple reality - and perhaps, just perhaps, the Arabs could learn a thing or two from the subcontinent - instead of teaching US the wrong things!

I suppose it was strictly the women`s fault! (I knew it!) Why did they have to go and do it?

Then again, perhaps it was just a dream! (And I strenuously deny that any of Manto`s idols were on afeem!)

Re: # 27

Beej Yaar, “You” was a generic you, not you personally. It’s quite sickening to (notice, I didn’t use “I” find it sickening) to read the experts who are more absorbed with their own importance than hold forth a discussion on the subject matter that is being discussed. There are so many of those clowns here on Chowk. Every time someone starts a sentence with “I” or “in my view”, or “I would have” or “My grandpa has a bigger reclining chair” or “I” this and “I” that. To those I say (yes, I can use I so long at it’s usage is thin and far in between) cut it down a bit. It gets boring to read how important everyone is, specially for uneducated working class schmuks like me and Chaltoo.

#26 by Kulharee

[Beej, no one really gives a shyt about what you think or how you interact or react.]

Alas my dear, did you REALLY have to take that massive axe of yours and hit so hard at all those interacts of mine - and so cruelly too! (Or was it a payback of some kind - perhaps for sleights from the past - or slights from the recent!)

And just imagine, if people were to follow that line of logic to its natural conclusion - our very own prodigous pundits pontificating pyar-bhare pools of platitudes - O what calamities could ensue! What have you unleashed here - how little you understand - O Axey, you of the unmitigated music - by no means a gushing ghulaam of Ghalib - perhaps more a junoonee of jarring Jazz!

Poor babies! My poor babies!

Nothing is as jarring as reality!

I am shattered.

(But I still feel sorry for Manto.)

(Talking of ``serious``, I hope you got to see my last post on your board.)

Beej, no one really gives a shyt about what you think or how you interact or react. Say what you want, and move over. Chowk is the only place where a bunch of self-absorbed community college educated pretentious jokers are found in abundance. “I” this and “I” that.

Manto. The biggest charlatan for women’s right in Pakistan was Jinnah himself. While he married a nice Parsi girl, he insisted that his daughter finds a nice “Muslim” boy. If there is some hypocrite, it was the Baba-e-Qoom. He did a lot of lip service to women’s and minority rights, and in fact is responsible (partially, if not wholly) for the mess we see today in Pakistan. Allah saves Pakistan from people like him.

#21 Manto

Needless to say, I disagree with who has been involved in what who considers ``disgusting``!

Who you chose to interact with is your own business, also. There are plenty of interactors around - even on your board - who still talk with me. And even if individuals (any individuals) do not chose to talk to me - so what - all that means is whatever I say goes unchallenged and stays unchallenged.

I speak my mind and unlike some people here (including yourself) I have never hesitated to admit when I screw up. (The instance you refer to is not necessarily one of them.) I have every right to speak my mind and there is nothing you - or people like you can do about it - and even the proprietors of chowk have little control over it.

(PS: I personally find your (and your wife`s) anti-Gandhi tirades much more disgusting, as explained elsewhere, (yet somehow, at the same time, it even makes me feel sorry for you, perhaps mere foolishness on my part), but that does not stop me from wishing your dreams well. Whether or not dreams materialize simply depends on how much reality they are grounded in.)

What I fail to understand is that most of the times, Pakistanis are either dissecting their religion or their past. And at the end their will be the same conclusion-Islam is great. Pakistan is great.Long live Pakistan.

But the fact is that Muslims in general and Pakistanis in particular remain in a delusion that they are a part of some great empire. This great empire is not worth a single penny and is totally bankrupt today does not bother them.

This magalomania only gives them a feeling of being Nawabi, if not Badshahi, and thats worth more than anything else.

Strange.

#13 hamzaad

Finally, a plain-speaker around these dangerous, shark-infested waters!

[Manto and other Pakis on this website, who are no more chutya than any other educated Indian, have been saddled with the embarrassment of a failed state that Pakistan seems to have become. Articles celebrating anything that consoles those hurt senibilities is their therapy.
There is nothing else going on. Have-nots will not (and probably should not) get their circumstances changed by the good wishes and proclamations by jialaas like manto and we are all going to die eventually.]

I agree with the ``we are all going to die eventually`` part. At the same time, I am sorry I can not be as cynical as you. As long people have dreams, those should be encouraged - one never knows - and eventually, someday some of them might come true. Manto is a dreamer of sorts - some of his axioms are highly faulty - but it is a good thing that he is around in Pakistan and - breakable as he is, perhaps by looking at him, others may follow who may have similar dreams but are more tuned to reality and therefore have a better shot at making those a reality. And is preferable to the alternative - the Mullahs. (In my personal view though, the Mullahs are less of a problem than the khakis.)

Manto,

Isnt it futile to talk about historical events 60 years back, when the current realities in Pakistan are so different?

Today Pakistan finds it hard to organize a mixed marathon without calling in the entire police force to provide protection. I was recently watching a Ary TV program where Ayaz Amir was interviewing three ladies about the marathon. This lady representing the MMA was in a shuttlecock burqa and was saying that women should mostly stay within the ``chardiwari`` of their homes and wear burqas outside. What astonished me was the absolute conviction in her mind and the shrillness in her voice typical of a zealot which would literally send a chill up the spine of any rational person. If a woman could think like this, how do the men in MMA party think?

BJKumar...

Your disgusting behavior and your readiness to abuse women for disagreeing with you was on ample display a few days ago... I am afraid I cannot continue to indulge you on any topic- given that as a Gandhian you are naturally allergic to the truth... That you are not very objective when it comes to that racist casteist Hindu bigot the world calls Gandhi does not rule out the possibility that you are equally disgusting as a human being. So go adminster an enema or something and abuse black people while celebrating your uppercaste Hinduness...

Re: # 17-sick minds weave sick societies...
Mullah interpretation of Quran and Hadith is totally political and impractical..so Y blame the Quran and Hadith..the essence of which is long forgotten and deliberately put behind..

It was the Kalma that spurred the men and women alike to have the result - Pakistan..

P.S - please refrain from attacking religions please..it leaves others no comfort and freedom to express..

All Pakistan needs now is a great leader like Yasser Arafat as the President and Asif Zardari as a prime minister and Bhuttoz as chief minister..

Suprised..??

At least this would give solace to the departed souls of Wali Khan and his Father Khan Ghaffar Khan a.k.a Khan Ghaddar Khan who now would be relishing a game of chess with Rajiv Gandhi and Indira busy doing pooja of Dr. Manmohan Singh..

Re: # 6-Agreed and Re-agreed..

Bhutto came in to feed his council..the protected and his private council which made him win..in the elections..the money he got as a HADDI..from the foreign lobbies..
and started the movement which benefitted the thugs to loot and rape and then on the media exonerate themselves to ensure the vote bank is intact..

Ref#13

Dear Kaka Haramzad,

You are quite correct in stating that people like manto and other pakistani friends are not chutiya. That is correct.

No Indian is superrior than their fellow Pakistani brothers and sisters. Agreeed.

Let us talk about pakistani women and in particular and muslim Women in general.

The culprit who is responsible for the muslim women`s precdicament is the guy who was born and lived as a barbarian and created the philosophically brutal environment which is responsible for the current state of muslim women.

His name is Mohammad.

After reading Koran and Hadith I have realised the man was a psychopath and sex maniac. Who broke all the decent ( there were few) laws of the Arabic society of his time to fulfill his criminal ambitions. He crafted all the anti-woman lies and his followers are perpetuating them till today.

Let us laugh at his philosophy and get rid of all the cruel anti woman laws.

That is my 2 paisa contribution.

On side note:-Pakistan is the greatest memorial to those martyrs who sacrificed their lives druing freedom movement. Humanity owes a deep debt of gratitude to all those who gave sacrifices and to those who lost their lives during the building of this great country, called Pakistan.All those proud Pakistani women , who worked hard day and night and opened a new chapter in the world`s history as this beautiful land will be used by generations after generations of proud Pakistanis.

PAKISTAN ZINDABAD, QUAID-E-AZAM ZINDABAD

YLH
Once again, you proved yourself an excellent writer .Nothing indicates success better than satisfied readers. I feel proud to read this article, knowing that I am absolutely NOT wasting my precious time.Let me compliment you by saying, you are an extraordinary writer with brilliance which reflects in this article.And, by seeing your vision, it will be so, true that surely you are among people whose vision and creations are mapping humanity`s road to the future.
Pakistan`s creation was August 14th,1947, a beautiful day was seeing all of the dreams came true for Muslims and exclusively for Muslim women, who gathered under extraordinary leadership of Quaid-e-Azam who was the driving force that fused the classic Muslim women world with the modern day world, and despite all obstacles, because life is not perfect, Muslim women were happy, loyal to the commitment of the service to this new homeland of Muslims, called Pakistan.It was realized that the significance of this new land, was much bigger than it was thought before.Muslims came together under one flag.Those were the magic moments which I imagine even now in my dreams, when I saw our Quaid one night inn my most recent dreams, All he said to me was,``When you never know, Fairytales can come true...they can happen to you,`` and if you want to know what Qaid-e-Azam said to me and to all Muslim Pakistani women, ``Child, take my hand!`` I looked into his eyes, cried on his shoulder, looked again into his warm tear-filled eyes, and he said, `` It`s all right!`` with a graceful smile.

Quaid-E-Azam, gave us our dream, which is the spectacular combination of soaring peaks, deep steeps and singing streams, lovely lakes, wooded lands with captivating serenity, interesting countrymen and fertile valleys. Meet this land of Pakistan, my homeland, my love, My very own Pakistan. I see Pakistan as wonderful, romantic,rugged,magnificiant,majestic, mysterious,magical,mystical, mercurial, monstrous, marvellous which was , is and will be considered a dreamland by millions, women and men. Thousands of stories have been woven around this fairy land and many more will follow in the future. My Pakistan which is desired, admired and loved by Pakistanis from all walks of life.

When, Pakistan got it`s freedom, my mother was exactly in her 8th grade, she used to tell us all the thrilling stories attached to it`s freedom. She and all her school mates used to go door to door to ask for votes for Muslim league, our Quaid`s Muslim league, those girls were crazy for our Quaid, they used to adore him. They were ready to die for their cause. They worked day and night for the freedom movement of Pakistan.

I feel so proud when I am sharing this with you that My mother was the first girl in that town, she took her ,white dupatta , made a flag out of that dupatta , climbed on the top of the British Commissioner`s building and said,``Pakistan Zindabad, and hanged that beautiful flag on top of that building, she threw the british flag away.``

Whenever my mother used to tell us those stories, I always felt tears in her eyes, she always used to tell me,``beta, yeh tu khusshii kaiy aansu hain, these are tears of joy.``
Take care