When I Die

jawahara, rahulmal: various
Are both of you from Allahabad? I am too.
Shubha Mudgal is the daughter of Skanda and Jaya Gupta both English Professors at Allahabad University. I grew up and played with Skand whom I used to call Munne Bhaisahab and his father Prof P. C. Gupta was a class fellow of my father. Skand was my three years senior. I graduated from Form AU in Physics thouh.
I am looking forward to meeting Shubha Mudgal this saturday at her concert.

PS. Come to think of it, I think Jawahara has written an article on Allahabad at Chowk.

Re: # 31, Temporal:
Temporal Sahab, aapke citation mein thodrii dii gadr-badr ho gayee. Bahoton ko to pataa bhii na lagaa hogaa, par unke liye jo samjhe, citation yon honaa chaahiye thaa.

withers away mother`s angelic Love
child grows, youth fades…to ashes
ashes assume with effort none
the colour of their surroundings
only to drift away, again

raakh jou ik shaan-e-beynayazi say
apna laitee hai rang makaan kaa
(ekbar)
phir bikhar jaanay kay liyay

Lekin, main kahoongaa ki aapka angrezii kaa anuvaad urdu ke sher ko justice nahiin kartaa. Main aisaa is liye kah rahaan hun kyonki aapne cite karte samaya ``(funeral) pyres`` kii yaad dilaayii.

Prose evaluation:
The powder of ash is shapeless - devoid of personaliy - but it sacrifices it self non-chalantly in the paint form for serving the house to be reduced to the shapeless ash again along with the house.

Rahulmal #28

Rajjuu - rope ,
Samskritam for rope. Used quite a bit in discussing the rope-snake (rajju-sarpa)
metaphor used in advaita.

good. for a moment I though rahul malviya was the third one on chowk.

this was nicely written rahul. you got the poetic rhythm. i need to learn hindi.

Finally, a poem one could understand and appreciate.

Congratulations, Rahul, for awakening to life one kind of hope as you lowered another kind in the Karmic pool.

Brilliant. Simply breathtaking. One of the finest poems I have read so far on chowk. Rahul you`ve got an instant fan in me.

yaadon ki baraat ja rahi hai
lipti hui ikk safaid kafn mein
aa gayeeN wasl ki ghaRiyaN
khaak ko khaak ho janay do

fikr-o-khwahishaat ki socheN
mitt ke sub khaak ho gayeeN
aap laaye thay meri maiyyat ko
aap ab khoob chain se ro laiN

meray ehsaas aur afkaar
iss tarah mitt gaye jaise
thande paniyoN meiN juN
aag ko raakh ker diya jaay

P.S. Regarding ``roondhe``,I dont think this is the correct usage. The meaning you want to convey is- when they cry themselves hoarse; but the usage suggests, when they themselves become hoarse,and even that is not conveyed, coz rundhe is never used in that sense.
If I have to try my hand, I would say ``ashru shushk ho jaayen`` or something, my 2 more cents.

a href=``http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITRANS``>This is the wiki page for iTrans.
I think it would be nice if Chowk Staff can impose this as a standard.
And yes, I am a UPite.
I am still kinda confused regarding the meaning of lines jawahara posted. ``poor`` can indeed be ``poori`` in bhojpuri. But loneliness isnt mentioned and somehow the first line doesnt make sense.If it is taken as ``pur nari`` then it will be translated as- All the women of the city have anxious eyes and even a bed of roses seems like sleeping on thorns. This seems plausible if the song depicts some mythological situation, concerning ram (maybe).
By the way ,I am gonna overcome my ADD and watch Raincoat soon, the DVD is lying with me since long.:-)
Regarding rajju, I have seen it used as a wire or cord. ``ReeRh rajju`` is spinal cord. In fact going by the tempo of your poem, I think ``tying in icchchaon ke bandhan(or rajju)`` is the last thing you want to do,since you want to let go. Something like ``Chadha kar icchaon ke phool`` would have been more apt.My 2 cents.
shobig, yes indeed, I agree with you and I got you the first time.

Rahul:

and speaking of pyres…this also from chowk gali-koochays of yore:

raakh jou ik shaan-e-beynayazi say
apna laitee hai rang makaan kaa
(ekbar)
phir bikhar jaanay kay liyay

ashes
once vibrant memories
of discretions and indiscretions
mount of ashes
ever-persevering, pursuing.

yaadouN ki raakh
rakh ka anmbaar
anmbaar-e-bay-payaN
jakaR laita hai wajood kO
yaadouN ki raakh
ek shikanja-e-zeest

too many queries
orphaned by thoughts
too many thoughts
not in word prison
Thanksgiving III

Rahul you made me do this:)

Okay, I went back and read ``poor,`` then I listened to the song again :-)

The ``poor`` is I guess a rustic way of saying ``poori`` (completely?). Perhaps something like ``pur`` might be better...but it doesn`t have the drawn out ``u`` or ``o`` sound.

``Poor naari saari vyakul nayan
Kusum sajaa lage kantak shayan``

So the line means something like the woman`s eyes are completely full of a total loneliness.

Actually the second line is what reminded me of Rahul`s poem.

Though strewn with flowers (kusum) it feels more like a bed (shayan: could also be a funeral bier) of thorns (kantak).

Sorry, I am not great at translating but you`ll get the picture I think...hope.

Yes, she is a fellow Allahabadi. Her maiden name was Gupta. That sounds like a very U.P name...but she is a Bong...not sure if the original name was Sengupta or Skandgupta. Her mom used to teach English at the university and Shubha, from what my sister tells me was more of a classical dancer than a singer in school. She had the same music guru as another friend of mine. Small world!

Re: # 25

Inquirer,

I explained my perspective in the last interact. I`ve never heard this word Rajjuu. You are right about the incorrect usage of bandhan for tying the dead body. I toyed with the idea of rassi or dori, but it sounded uncouth and I couldn`t think of a better word. Your rajjuu seems to have lot of merit. What is the root word, am I losing it in transliteration?

18,

hun humkay pullay pad gayee....baee yeh premika yaan premi kee chita hai.

main sochya yeh kavi apni chita kee gull kar raha hai. aur uski umar uskay aankhon kay uggay ghoom rahi hai.

chalo, dhanya wad humko dussnay ka.

Inquirer#20,

The poem is in first-person. The narrator expresses, shall we call it death-wish, what he wants done after his death. The request is to people responsible for cremation. Not sure if you meant loved-ones when you used the word lover. My response to Shobig in #18 was an explanation of why I think dreams should burn in the funeral pyre. In my interact, I switched to the person cremating a loved-one because I wanted to share the perpective of the person performing the last rites.

Shobig,

Thanks for the thumbs-up! Wouldn`t it be convenient if we had some winkies and smileys on FP too, makes life easier ;-)

Jawahara,

I had no idea Shobha Mudgal was a fellow Allahabadi, always thought she was Bengali. I didn`t get the meaning of the lines you posted, probably lost in transliteration :-( What is poor? naari is pulse or woman? kantak - thorn? shayan?

Re: # 23, rahulmal:
Let us consider:
baandh icchaon ke bandhan*****baandh ichchhaaon kii rajjuu
There is some confusion in your poem about whose desires do we want to consider or refer to. It is an insult to freedom after death that a body can still be tied with ``bandhan,`` that is why I replaced the psychological aspects of ``bandhan`` and tried to transform the concept of ``rope`` (=rajjuu) which is used literally in securing the body of the dead person for putting in the funeral pyre.

Jawahara:

````Poor naari saari vyakul nayan``

What does ``poor`` mean?

BTW Raincoat is excellent...shows that Ashwaria Rai can act, given a good director.

Miriamk, Khammy, Abskii

Thanks!

Delhiwala,

That`s true! We think in our mother tongues, glad you liked it.

Inquirer,

My apologies for the gaps in tranliteration , If I was a bit more diligent, I could have avoided these mistakes. Not an excuse, but I ran out of fizz and wanted to submit it, regardless. What does `rajjuu` mean?

Kaure,

Itna tentative mat rahe yaar, dil toot jaande hain :-)

Jawahara, Subroto, Zainab

Thanks! Your appreciation means a lot!

Rahul_capri,

Sashi was a typo, the others are mistakes in transliteration, thanks for pointing out! You are right about the roondhe part, I put that word instinctively, hope there IS such a word. Could you please provide some more details of iTrans? Definitely, poor tranliteration destroys the flow of the poem. I`ll correct it over the weekend and resubmit the poem.

Manikarnika Ghat - Umm...are you a UPite? Whoever has lived in that part of India can`t help noticing the stark difference between Benaras and Alld - twin cities, 110 Km by GT Road, one a centre of spirituality, alive and kicking, the other dead as a Dodo.

``Poor naari saari vyakul nayan
Kusum sajaa lage kantak shayan``

From one of my new favorite songs...from Raincoat by Shubha Mudgal. She`s also from Allahabad and went to school with one of my sisters.

Anyway, these lines reminded me your poem Rahul.

Beejay,

FORCE it is!

DMji,

Thanks! I submitted the English poem couple of months back. Chowk Editors got back to me and suggested that I try the bilingual format. My Hindi is scratchy at best, but I thought what the heck! Besides, translating to Hindi is less riskier than trying to do that in Urdu. I don`t know how many Hindi speakers we have on this site, but there are a lot of Urdu speakers with I didn`t want to risk getting e-lynched for mistakes. Even though, the final translation leaves a lot to be desired, it is the best I could come up with. Someone with a better handle on the language would have done more justice to it. If people like the style, then Chowk Staff deserve all the accolades (and brickbats :-) ).

Thanks, Harish!

Temporal,

lid is used as a verb here. The Urdu translation is wonderful! If it is OK with you, I`ll include your Urdu translation and re-submit the poem (with due acknowledgements :-) ). Please translate: masehri, aatish and khalish.

Hindi words:
smriti - memory
icchha - wish
chita - pyre
chinta - worry
angare - embers
truti - mistake
sashi (should be sakshi) - witness
roondhe - crying hoarse
lobh - greed
abhimaan - pride
Kamna - desire
atript - unfulfilled
aakansha - aspiration
pravahit karna - pravah is current, generally the phrase is used when things are put in running water (mostly rivers)

Re: # 18, rahulmal:
I misunderstood the thrust of your poem in my response. You are cremating your lover and wishing him/her well. I am requesting my lover to do all that for me.

Re: # 18 Rahul#1: Thanks a lot for the detailed and poignant answer/analysis. Thumbs up!

#15 Rahul#2 (no pun intended here ;) ): Indeed, chitaangi mein dalna, is superficially the same `act` as nazr-i-aatish kerna...but it is the sacredness and sanctity that draws a faint line between the two acts! There is, undoubtedly, too much consecration associated with `Chitaangi mein jalaana` to be equated to `nazr-i-aatish` kerna. Hope I made myself clear here.

Regards Rahul#1 and Rahul#2. (order of 1,2 is not significant!:) )

Re: # 1

Shobig,

Thanks!

When I light the pyre of my loved one (or lower him/her in the bosom of mother earth), I use the rituals sanctioned by my religion or philosophy to convey - Here you go! Your journey in this world is over. These last rites shall unshackle you from the bonds of greed, love, lust, affection and cares of this world, and liberate your soul hitherto fettered by earthly affections, to coalesce with the supreme being. As a son/family member/friend, I take it upon myself to complete your unfinished tasks, realize the dreams you dreamt and work for the ideals you cherished. Henceforth, I shall represent your person in this world and guard your legacy zealously, thereby freeing you of the worries of this world, and allowing your spirit set forth by the demise of body, to act as ordained by the supreme being.

The failure of the spirit to `let go` is a sacrilege. This would cause the soul to disobey the laws of nature and try to undertake such tasks as would have been considered by the person, were he/she alive. There is no greater abomination than a dissatisfied soul and it should be our endeavour as humans to ensure that the separation of soul from body (and all that it stood for, when alive) is complete. If not, the curse unleashed by this pollution can result in destruction of families, society and even the nation. I`m opposed to carrying over any baggage in the `onwards` journey. Death should be the end of all trials and tribulations. There should be no lingering attachments and unfulfilled desires when the soul leaves the body.

The failure to sever the ties can cause the soul to meander in this world and tempt people like Ramgopal Verma to dabble with paranormal subjects, using the film medium. We don`t want him doing another `Bhoot` on us, do we?

simply beautiful!

``ab aatma shareer se ho alag
daal smritiyon ki shaiyya pe
baandh icchaon ke bandhan``

So true and so well said.

Beautiful, and more so because it is in Hindi.Was like a moment on Manikarnika Ghat, evokes the same virakti .

p.s. ``sashi`` should be ``saakshi``, ``aakanshaon`` should be ``aakankshaon`` and I did not get ``roondhe``, is it the same as in ``gala rundh jaana``?Also, you and your readers would find it helpful if you use something like iTrans, a standard scheme of transliteration.

Two beautiful interacts by shobig and a lovely translation by temporal.
shobig, yes indeed, ``chitaagni mein daal dena`` is ``nazre aatish``,but even more so it is ``rab raakha`` or ``khuda hafiz``.

kiyonki harik koyee tumki kavta ki parshansa kar raha hia....changi hi likhi ho gi....parnay may bi theek lagti hai.....baki iskay doongay maihnay humkay palay kakh nahin paday.

Beautiful. As someone who just lusts at poetry from afar but can never write anything but doggerel...I was so very jealous of this piece :-) I liked the English/Hindi treatment, especially the lines :

``daal smritiyon ki shaiyya pe

baandh icchaon ke bandhan``

Would love to read more.

Naturally, every one expresses their own desires, hence mine:

Jab aatma shareer se ho alag****Jab aatma shareer se ho alag

daal smritiyon ki shaiyya pe*****daal smritiyon kii shayyaa pe

baandh icchaon ke bandhan*****baandh ichchhaaon kii rajjuu

de kandha salone Sapnon ko****le kandhaa salone sapnon kaa

chitaagni mein daal dena*******chitaagni mein daal denaa


chinta ke angArE**************aakrosh ke anngaare

ho jaaye jab thande***********ho jaayein jab thande

trutiyon ke sashi**************aur ansamjhii trutiyon kii

ho jaaye jab roondhe**********gutthiyaan sulazhane per


nasht ho jaayen lobh, abhimaan*banaa kar yaadon ke

thandi, Kamnaayen saari*******guldaste phir bhigo kar

juta atript aakanshaon ko******unko atript aakanshaon se

karm taal mein pravaahit karma*karm taal mein pravaahit karna

My idea is to acknowledge the inexorable flow of transition, but reconciliation of un- achieved parts of life that a surviver has to cope with a positive note should be desired by the person passing away.

Bahut khooob Rahulmal beta.
Hindi one was much better than Angrezi.
Only reason I say that is, your thought process is DESI but language is English and there is some disconnect there.

I am impressed with your Shudh Hindi Shabad Upyog.

wow.....

...even i understood and enjoyed it too...wish temporal`s poems were as simple...;)

rahul:

shoulder the cherished dreams

I liked this. But like shobig I’m hoping dreams stick around long after.

And the hindi was an education...enjoyed it.

Re: # 6 [khaab o hasrat ko m’ray
naz’r e aatish kardO]

do not seem to be doing justice to the oiginal verses.... sorta twist the actual thought....guess there`s gotta be some difference between `nazr-i-aatish` kerna, and `chita jalana`....perhaps the sanctity (?)
Also, replace khabOn with Hastraton/aarzu`on/yaas in the second last verse.

regards

temporal:

Thumbs up sign for urdu tanslation, although I am not sure if khalish is the right translation for angst.

Rahul:

just wondering...is lid the right word?

enjoyed this... don`t know much about hindi...here is my spontaneous urdu take on your poem

jub fanaa hoNgay
yaadouN ki masehri per
khaahishouN ki zanjeerON maiN jakRay
khaab o hasrat ko m’ray
naz’r e aatish kardO

khalish ki chingharion kO
sholaa o rakh ho janay dO
m’ri koh’taeeyON kay gawahON kO
siskiyaaN lainay dO, ronay dO

laluch mit ja’aye
anaa fanaa ho ja’aye
khaabOn ko bhi
bhas’m kardO, mita dO

rgds

t

Crisp and beautiful!

Rahul:

Probably the best poem written on chowk, in both English and Hindi. [the bilingual format is also a good lesson in goorh hindi :)]

Re: # 2 Dear Janitor, dreams divine..our (eastern) take....not, their (western) take...true or not? Clash of ideas, thriving on...geography? That`s the question, the servant seeketh answer to, thy unholy sire! ;)

Rahul, I like it! Also, it’s short and nice and makes its point well!

Consigned to flames
Shall stay
This body no more
Just Body – THE Body

And all we leave
Goes back to source
To earth, to sky
To sea, to Force
THE Force

#1 ShoBig
Don’t listen to all those people – what do they know! Let’s get Dr. Gill’s take on it!

Profound!

[shoulder the cherished dreams]

So you say dreams will die with you(?),
Harold Robin says dreams die first,
Emma Goldman says when we cannot dream any longer we die..
but
Faraz says...khwab mertay nahin
Iftikhar says khwab tau apnay ikhtyar meiN heiN
and I say, they`d still be there to shoulder your coffin, even if no one else remains...

your take?