Finding Kashmir's Pain in London

If Murtaza Shibli can smell earth in London`s blasted tubes then he is certainly a sick man!!!

Re: # 179

zeemax:

Not much details yet. To me the first explanation appears to be an attempt by some external forces at a factional war between shia/sunni aka Iraq example. If Sunnis take the bait and blow up a few Shia mosques then it`ll get real ugly. However, so far there`s no blame game going on.


Thanks, I hear it is the work of ``suicide bombers``..

#178

[The past must be buried and allowed to R.I.P and work done towards the above, which is the only solution.]

It is the oldest saying in the world. The past always comes back to haunt us if we ``bury`` it without seeing it for what it was - and without LEARNING from it. When that happens, there is not any peace, what to say of R.I.P.

At its core, the Kashmir agitation was motivated by one and one thought process alone - that the people of one religion were exclusive and were needed to be treated differently from the rest of the nation! More than anything its leaders said or lectured about - it is their actions which have proved such a mindset - again and again!!! There is no other way to look at it - and there are few other conclusions to draw. ``Intellectuals`` who do not see that simple fact are just being dishonest - well-meaning or otherwise.

Without hurting the hopeful crowds on this site - the unfortunate truth is - there is little sign of any change in the culprit mindset even though there is some sign of weariness - and holding one`s breath does not become a hopeful sign!

My guess is - it will be at least one hundred years more. It perhaps takes four to five generations for individuals to develop the necessary ``distance`` from an issue to deal with it objectively. But the rate at which thought diffuses depends on how strong a grip the military-mullah-jihadi nexus continues to hold on the minds of the Pakistani population at large.

Can the region - the region consisting of the ``fair maidens`` (the Kashmiris) and their ``suitors`` (in Pakistan) - afford it? Who knows? Past history shows that what they can ``afford`` has been the least of their considerations.

It is all quite unfortunate. The bomb-blasts and the like are in all likelihood there to stay - hopefully with diminishing frequency. (But as the Merrut fire shows - they are just one of the many problems that the country of India is plagued with.)

India is following the right course - soft on the people (to the extent that it does not compromise security) but absolutely no concessions to the troublemakers.

Let such troublemakers eat their own ``cake`` - and die from its poison. At least that is all one can hope.

#180 by kaami

about those pundits driven out...... i`m all against what was done to them but it was them who were reaping what their compatriots had sowed... and not what u are trying to make out of it

Now you`ve really shot yourself in the foot. Why are Kashmiri Pandits to blame for what Indians supposedly have `done` to Kashmiris? Aren`t they Kashmiris too? In fact, you are inadvertently admitting that it is because of their religion. That`s what I`ve been saying all along buddy, if you didn`t get it. Let me repeat it again, it`s the RELIGION stupid.

Re: # 163

sick and pathetic

you seem all too happy about the blasts in karachi just because you can always make your outlandish assumptions and morph it into another of ur lame excuses to try and humiliate the pakistanis.... indifferent to the fact that this blast cost the lives of 50 ppl

no wonder you guys don`t give it a **** when scores of kashmiris die everyday


......
about those pundits driven out...... i`m all against what was done to them but it was them who were reaping what their compatriots had sowed... and not what u are trying to make out of it

#151 by masanamuthu

...Now I fail to understand the reason for the blasts in the ``Sunni`` function. Are the ``wahabis`` against celebrating the birthday??.. Can someone explain?...

Not much details yet. To me the first explanation appears to be an attempt by some external forces at a factional war between shia/sunni aka Iraq example. If Sunnis take the bait and blow up a few Shia mosques then it`ll get real ugly. However, so far there`s no blame game going on.

#146 by bharath / #147 by arjun_m / #151 by masanamuthu

Looks like my statement of #142 i.e. The very fact that the Indian constitution has a 370 is a tacit admission that Kashmir is not an ``atoot ung`` of India like Kerala or others. has hit a few raw nerves. Nevertheless, it is quite true.

Which of the other hundreds of princely states and residencies which acceded to India enjoys an article 370 kind of status? Particulraly, why Junagadh, which is exactly the flip side of the Kashmir story, does not enjoy this status? It is only because the issue of Junagadh`s accession to Pakistan was resolved after India`s forced annexation and the later plebiscite, but the matter of Kashmir`s accession remains disputed. That is why there is an article 370 only in case of Kashmir because it is `Different` and `not` an utoot ung like Junagadh is now, or indeed Hyderabad for that matter, which was also occupied by force when the Nizam refused to accede to India. In fact, Pakistan was doing the same thing as India did in Junagadh by sending in troops to occupy Srininagar. It failed, that is why the dispute. If it hadn`t, the dispute would have been solved there and then with a pebiscite as in the Junagadh example.

#173 by anil

The vision that should be crafted for South Asia must bring prosperity, education and other factors that empower to the village level. Suitable technologies exist today to realize it. Whatever system that makes it possible in the most efficient way in a part, should be adopted for that part of the region. In a way how EU is evolving.

Yes. That is the way to go. The past must be buried and allowed to R.I.P and work done towards the above, which is the only solution.

#155 by kaami

from where did the religion come into the equation... and that too from an indian (read secular)? it`s more about human rights, i think

Have you ever cared to hear the views of a Kashmiri Pandit? You know, the `Hindu` Pandits who were driven away from the valley. Or is it that it becomes a human rights issue only when Muslims are the victims?

We hate to make this a Hindu-Muslim thingy, but the Kashmiri Muslims who contracted the disease from Pakistan won`t let us be. Why do you think the Pandits were driven away? It is the RELIGION stupid.

#153 by kaami

Is it just a coincidence that this comes from a kashmiri and not a pakistani.... and is it just a coincidence that all we ever from a ``kashmiri`` is a sense of loss and despair.... and is it just a coincidence that we never hear a kashmiri praising the indian rule (oppression)... and is it just a coincidence that the only people supporting the indian rule (read opperssion) are the indians and only the indians

Aww, poor Muslim Kashmiris, it is when their sorry butts are whupped that they feel the pain. When Kashmiri Pandits were driven out of the valley, with mosque loudspeakers blaring threats and asking the men to leave their women behind, they were all fine and dandy. As they say, `As you sow, so you reap`.

re:#169 by kaami
To u and your ilk, i have this to say: Pakis worrying about Kashmiri freedom is like a whore worrying about her chastity. It just does not jive in with the reality.
Try and get some freedom for yourself first. Get rid of the dictator and get a popularly elected govt. Then Pakis can talk about kashmiri freedom and it will even ring true.
Sridhar

lookie here..the group that got bombed in karachi was blabbering about Kashmir in 2002..

KARACHI: Rallies held to condemn Indian atrocities

JAMIAT AHLE SUNNAT: Addressing a reception and a meeting of “Kashmir solidarity day” at Khaliqdina Hall, Jamiat Ulema-i-Pakistan chief Allama Shah Ahmad Noorani said Kashmir was a jugular vein of Pakistan, as such there could be no bargaining over the issue.

He expressed his optimism that the blood of Kashmiris would not go in vain as they had laid down lives for a just cause.

Recalling the brutalities perpetuated by the Indian army in the occupied valley, he said the day was not far when Kashmir would be free from the Indian yoke and accede to Pakistan.

JUP chief was also critical of the ban of use of loud-speaker even for reciting Durood-o-Salam.

About Madaris, he said that those who had been talking of changing the syllabus of the Madaris should first change the syllabus of colleges and universities which had been producing criminals and drug addicts.

Criticizing the role of NGOs, he accused them of spreading obscenity and said they were striving to change the Islamic constitution of Pakistan.

“We have faced he challenge of socialists and now we were ready to meet the challenge of secular elements in the country.

Re: # 142

Zeemax:

``I am not talking of conceeding any territory, I am talking about

Allowing greater autonomy, soft borders and free trade between two Kashmirs, and within India (including Inidan Kashmir) will happen, with or without Pakistan. The pressures are more than political and not all all religious. As Indian economy grows and south Indian states start generating greater part of the GDP, the revenue sharing will change, seat allocation or power sharing at least will change. The revenue sharing is still based on old 1956 formula. Devolution power within the democratic system is happening and will happen more and more. BJP started it with CMP (Common Minimum Program), Congress led present government continues with it. The bargaining for cooperation and power sharing is based on the economic and other benefits that are passed to each regional party. I can see Indian Kashmir participating in this scenario of power sharing, and getting its fair share of Kashmir dream in Indian dream, or South Asian dream. One thing is for sure true, that this will not be hindu or muslim dream, or any relgious dream.

Also the distribution of real-estate on nation-state basis was last done about 45 years ago. Excluding east Timor, even there, oil, more than anything else, was the reason.

The vision that should be crafted for South Asia must bring prosperity, education and other factors that empower to the village level. Suitable technologies exist today to realize it. Whatever system that makes it possible in the most efficient way in a part, should be adopted for that part of the region. In a way how EU is evolving.

Anil

#169 by kaami on April 11, 2006 4:16pm PT


no people, no demands !!!!
a solution straight out of an indian call centre


We can`t win Kashmir by force so we`ll try riding into Srinigar on the moral high horse..

a solution typical of people who`re miserable failures at IT/Call center work...

Re: # 169
kaami
I guess you are too stupid to get what stuka is saying in 168. If the majority muslims
in kashmir dont care about their minorities, why do they expect that the majority
in India to care about them. Yow reap what you sow, you get what you deserve.

Re: # 166

Yeah you r right........Your blah blah blah is full of points and than my blah blah blah ....

>>>>and do u think that the sindhis or the pakhtoons will opt to leave pakistan if given the choice, it`s just a small minority of people who foster such `ambitious` aspirations unlike kashmir where an ``overwhelming`` majority wants to get rid of the oppressors <<<<

I`m curious u mention only Sindhis and Pakhtoons and not the Balcohs....

Also ..If i understand correctly the minority numbers is the isssue...

And once a MAJORITY of Sindhis and Pakthoons voice ``such ambitious aspirations`` u as democratic Punjabi Sunnistani will be ready to let them go? ... the same peaceful way u let the Bengalis go......?!!!!!!

Re: # 168

c`mon, now u r making outlandish excuses...
....
so the new indian policy is ... it`s a relatively small bunch of people and just because we can`t meet their demands (even though their demands are pretty logical), we`ll eradicate the people who are making these demands..... no people, no demands !!!!

a solution straight out of an indian call centre