Through the Parsi Prism

Re: # 55

Harimou,

{{What the hell has come over you? Ever since your recent visit to Mumbai, you have been ranting and raving against Pakistanis}}

One frikking terrorist attack after another...not just in India..but in the rest of the world...the footprints of which...time & time again..go to Pakistan...tends to wear upon you...

And what do shareef Pakistanis do on chowk?....& in govt offices of Islamabad...& on the streets of Pakistan?!:

``tsk tsk tsk...its such a tragedy...its sooooo..er..unIslamic``

&...in the next breath..they go...

BUTT...

`` its all India`s fault...bec of Kashmir...
its all Britian`s fault...bec of Iraq
its all Amrika`s fault...because they treated us like a condom...
its all the fault of Jews...because of Palestinians...
its the fault of the Russians..because of Chechnya...
its the fault of the whole frikkin` world...because muslims are singled out...``

its a frikkin` Hindu-Jewish-Christian-Bhuddist CONSPIRACY to malign Islam...

Only FEW Pakistanis on Chowk, like ylh, godot, Feroz etc have the dignity to stand up & say...
``Hey! I think its OUR country that has a problem...I think its OUR fault... its NO frikkin conspiracy``....& then EDUCATED Pakis like haroon & Don deride them for being traitors to the Paki cause...

It gets a little OLD; after a while....

Of course, a minor fact like I was strip searched at Heathrow & almost molested by a gay-angrezi Pathan ``british homeland Security`` expert.... did`nt help matters; either...(my BADNASEEB...I look like a Northie/Paki! :(()...

I`m ``profiled`` everytime I even go to a frikkin` domestic airport...How I WISH Pakis had oriental features, Allah-damn it!!!


{{and even against Islam.}}

Hey! Thats a cheeaap shot, madrasi-brahmin-dukkar!

I`ve never insulted Islam...I HAVE accused the ``nation of the Land of the Pure`` for repeatedly ``spitting`` upon the face of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) in their history...Yes, I`ve cursed their SECT system as being WORSE than the caste system...BUT, with PURE Romairian logic...I have NEVER insulted Islam

...& if I have..its a regrettable Fruedian slip!..:)

{{Did the FBI pay a visit to your suburban Detroit office and home after reading your earlier posts? Did you hear an earful from your family about how Indian Muslims are being pampered at the expense of Gaud Saraswat Brahmins?

We all would like to know what caused this transformation.}}

I will just re-iterate a ``joke`` told to me by my classmate Dr Sohaib & bibi..on our trip to Lonavala....

Q) How do you get into a fist fight with an indian muslim?
A) Call him a Pakistani

Q) How do you make an indian muslim homicidal?
B) Call him a F*ckin Pakistani...

Dr(Mrs) Sohaib`s uncle was shot dead in COLD BLOOD in Karachi...
His fault?...He was a Shia doctor...

Khuda Hafiz

PS: Ahmedmadani wants youre e-mail....

Re: # 49
hi mr pannu halwai
just to point out a couple of things, youre right , its strange that these greek transliterations are used. in my family there is both a Cyrus and a Korush. maybe the modern farsi pronunciation of the names has changed from the ancient avestan one. i dont know much about that, but its a possiblilty. the alternative for darius would be Dariosh, Jaal should be Zaal etc. my name Rustom in modern iran would be Rostam. i dont quite see how these spelling differences show an absence of culture though.
also, to quote you,

``As a community they help thier own kind and donot generally mix with the mainstream``

youre right to a certain extent, indeed WHAT COULD BE MORE INDIAN THAN THIS??!!

Re: # 35

That was a good one, yaar! lol :)

The mrs. and I got divorced about two years ago, so I am pleased to inform you that I will not be doing any additions to Pakistan`s cause. Legally, that is... :)

As to Bombay, I am thinking of a trip there this winter, but it is still in the planning stages. I might have to disagree, with you; I might be a half-breed, but I am not a genious and have no plans to impersonate as one either! :) So, do not go around spreading rumors. Besides, you should check out some half breed Parsi-Muslim girls - the pure breeds cannot hold a candle to them. :)

I was talking about this article, with my mom, and we had good laugh at the idea of Parsis being considered as a tribe. In fact, my late father used to joke and tell the bawa sethjis that soon the only place, where they could find a Parsi would be in Madame Tussaud`s Wax Museum. Speaking of which, you need to find yourself a Parsi distraction to keep you busy, when there is a serious time difference, between appointments! ;)

Still, with the powers vested in me, I declare you an honorary Parsi, with all the rights and obligations. ;)

Shankar, yaar, you really need to come to Lahore, because you will get a good laugh. There is a Parsi colony in Lahore and like Farzana said, they do not allow any none Parsis to live there. In fact, they have a sign, which says: Muslims and Dogs not allowed. The Bawas are funny lot and everytime, I go to the colony for a visit, I remind them they are prepping themselves up for a good thrashing at the hands of the faithful. :)

Oye, what is this business about the wrong side of the border? You better watch it doctor ji, or you will have a full blown nationalist crisis on your hand, from your side of the border! LOL The last thing, which we need on this thread is another Jinnah-Gandhi debate and to the horror of horror, the dreaded ``m`` word - minorities, has already been mentioned. So, do me a favor and stop needling the hornets, because I rather have them buzzing else where.

Find me an Indian-Parsi girl, and I will think about moving to Bombay. To us bawas, it will always be Bombay and not this Mumbai non-sense. Where did you folks get this name? Mumbai sounds too much like Dubai! :) What is up, with you natives changing the names that the British bestowed upon our once nice and clean and orderly cities. I mean, it was a black day in civilization, when the natives stopped standing up and making a toast to the King-Emperor and now, you lot do not even sing ``God save the Queen`` Woe on you ingrates!!!! (rofl)

On a more trival note, go easy on this Muslim-Paki rant and rave. I thought that mind-benders like you, were supposed to be cool and detached hommes and not so emotionally charged and aggressive in your face my way or the high way types! LOL

Just keep telling me bawa stories and I will keep extending the dhansa invite to you and the familia. :)

Best Wishes!

Ciao

Shankar,

If you`re a shrink, you seriously need to up your own Prozac dose! Or are you on Lithium now?

+++++++++++

PunnuHalwai

Do you seriously think that the Parsis got racism from the damned British? The Persians, whether Muslims or not, are among the most racist/arrogant people in the world. As a Persian I once knew explained it to me, ``When you have invented civilization, you know that you are better than all the rest.``

The Parsis think of themselves as the ``REAL`` Persians, the heirs of Cyriush and Dariush, despite the fact that they are Gujrati, and hence as Indian as anyone else.

Sorry, you can`t blame this on the British!

Re: # 42

I will grant you the benefit of doubt. :)

Ciao

Ref Headshrinker #52

[Farzanaji,

{{Nobody has to tell me anything.}}

Gee...behenji..since you like to editorialise every bloomin` kink & quirk in India (other than Islaaaam)...I think its high time you listen & REFLECT, once in a while...then...maybe...just maybe...you`ll learn something...rather than whining about how screwed up everything is...in India...

I DO realise whining pays your bills...& I applaud you for raising it to an art-form...]

What the hell has come over you? Ever since your recent visit to Mumbai, you have been ranting and raving against Pakistanis and even against Islam. Did the FBI pay a visit to your suburban Detroit office and home after reading your earlier posts? Did you hear an earful from your family about how Indian Muslims are being pampered at the expense of Gaud Saraswat Brahmins?

We all would like to know what caused this transformation.

Of course, there is possibly a simpler explanation too. Your friendly neighborhood pot peddler has been arrested and you have been forced out of your blue haze.

Ref PunnuHalwai #48

[Whenever the Parsis left Iran they had a religion and I`m sure a culture too. Many Parsis name thier children after Cyrus or Darius. But these are Greek names, not Iranian names. What is the Iranian name of Cyrus? Kuruš. What is the Iranian mane for Darius? Dara.]

Dara? I think it is Daryush. Xerxes is Khorkhosh but the Greek X is really Kh and not the English X (pronounced as Z at the beginning of a word) so that isn`t a bad transliteration. I will have to look up Cyrus. Anyway, these still remain Iranian names just transliterated into Greek and then badly transliterated into English... which is what you are reading, don`t tell me you can read Greek.

Just look at Khorkhosh. I think the Fakhrs on the right side of the border would be writing it as Qorqosh, the Chinese would start reading it as Chorchosh (with their new transliteration scheme, Ching became Qing) and all sorts of verbal mayhem would ensue.

Ms. Farzana Versey is excellent writer with cutting logic. Very good work as always.

Re: # 46

Farzanaji,

{{Nobody has to tell me anything.}}

Gee...behenji..since you like to editorialise every bloomin` kink & quirk in India (other than Islaaaam)...I think its high time you listen & REFLECT, once in a while...then...maybe...just maybe...you`ll learn something...rather than whining about how screwed up everything is...in India...

I DO realise whining pays your bills...& I applaud you for raising it to an art-form...

please go ahead & sneer at the messenger...while you reflect upon the message...lol..

I`m a big boy...I can handle it...

{{Pakistan can choose who to call minorities or infidels. Being a minority within a minority within a minority in India gives me enough reason to ‘lol’ anyway}}

Wow! I just loooove the way you DEFTLY use your ``minority within a minority`` card.....to cry VICTIM on Chowk...all the time....

Ofcourse, the Land of the Pure can...aint no ``blasphemy law`` against THAT!...

BUTTT...
...please have the MATURITY to acknowlege that they spit upon the face of Jinnah (not to mention the Holy Prophet-pbuh) when they do that....

maybe THEN your 2 GREATEST admirers on Chowk..mullah Urstruly & porno-king Ali1...wont go ``RAH! RAH!!`` to flatter you; all the time....

BTW...could THOU please enlighten me whether the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) was a Sunni/Shia/Ahmadi/Barevli/Bohri/Maududi/What-ever-i??....
NONE of these other ``Islaaam ke mashoor pehelwans`` on Chowk are able to give me an answer....sniff...

FINE job you disciples of made of a SIMPLE message of EGALITARIANISM; Allah gave his noble son...I guess his favourite son`s sons were too DUMB to even UNDERSTAND that message!...what a bunch of DUFFER losers!

...or maybe they just borrowed a page from us brahmin dukkars...in the ``fine art`` of subjugating everybody..

I wont blame the good prophet if his soul yeaaaarns to be a Ba-hai...these days

{{…and btw, using the term ‘dukkar’ on a board such as this is hardly likely to defile the place or have a devastating impact. The Parsis love their bacon (and so did the founder of Pakistan).}}

Wow! Is that right?!...didnt realise it made an impact at all!
... the ONLY ``devastating impact`` it SHOULD make is that you muslims have made the SECT system even WORSE than the caste system...you DUKKARS!!!

We dukkar brahmins are idol-worshipping PAGANS...who expound a philosophy that only few intellectuals actually understand...(not that its RIGHT..all the time)...but ..hey! nobody gave US a ``perfect`` religion...ok...we dont know any better...ok?

But whats YOURE excuse?...moose limb...minority within minorities...Allah gave you a very SIMPLE ``open-book`` exam...& you even SCREWED that up!

So kindly shut-up & reflect upon that; behen-ji...while you eat your bacon an` eggs....

instead of whining about OTHER peoples` faults (which admittedly are many)...all the time...maybe you should SERIOUSLY think about editorialising about the FAULTs of your own benighted co-religionists...once in a while..

Khuda Hafiz

I`m sorry that my post appears 3 times.

Has anyone visited the shop right opposite Rustom`s in Colaba, Mumbai (If it still exists)? On its walls adorns a huge portrait of Queen Victoria whom the Parsis very fondly call ``Apri Rani``. Does this occur in any other religious community? The Parsis had a lot to thank the British for. One doesnot know what culture the Parsis follow, I have lived next to an Agaiary(Pilot Bunder) and whenever there was a function there would be the sounds of a 60`s English song with an orchesta. I have always thought- do these people have no culture?

Whenever the Parsis left Iran they had a religion and I`m sure a culture too. Many Parsis name thier children after Cyrus or Darius. But these are Greek names, not Iranian names. What is the Iranian name of Cyrus? Kuruš. What is the Iranian mane for Darius? Dara. Why name children after a Greek name? Why if the Parsis are so proud of their Iranian heritage do they not follow thier own nomenclature?

As a community they help thier own kind and donot generally mix with the mainstream. I feel they have never really felt at home in India. They may have contributed to the freedom struggle and grown industries in India but their character is essentially European not Asian. In aping the British they have lost their own identity and have started to believe racist ideas of racial superiority and purity.

It is sad to see a community that once ruled great areas of Asia and Europe, who were masters of the world with Great Kings and Empires reduced to this state.

Has anyone visited the shop right opposite Rustom`s in Colaba, Mumbai (If it still exists)? On its walls adorns a huge portrait of Queen Victoria whom the Parsis very fondly call ``Apri Rani``. Does this occur in any other religious community? The Parsis had a lot to thank the British for. One doesnot know what culture the Parsis follow, I have lived next to an Agaiary(Pilot Bunder) and whenever there was a function there would be the sounds of a 60`s English song with an orchesta. I have always thought- do these people have no culture?

Whenever the Parsis left Iran they had a religion and I`m sure a culture too. Many Parsis name thier children after Cyrus or Darius. But these are Greek names, not Iranian names. What is the Iranian name of Cyrus? Kuruš. What is the Iranian mane for Darius? Dara. Why name children after a Greek name? Why if the Parsis are so proud of their Iranian heritage do they not follow thier own nomenclature?

As a community they help thier own kind and donot generally mix with the mainstream. I feel they have never really felt at home in India. They may have contributed to the freedom struggle and grown industries in India but their character is essentially European not Asian. In aping the British they have lost their own identity and have started to believe racist ideas of racial superiority and purity.

It is sad to see a community that once ruled great areas of Asia and Europe, who were masters of the world with Great Kings and Empires reduced to this state.

Has anyone visited the shop right opposite Rustom`s in Colaba, Mumbai (If it still exists)? On its walls adorns a huge portrait of Queen Victoria whom the Parsis very fondly call ``Apri Rani``. Does this occur in any other religious community? The Parsis had a lot to thank the British for. One doesnot know what culture the Parsis follow, I have lived next to an Agaiary(Pilot Bunder) and whenever there was a function there would be the sounds of a 60`s English song with an orchesta. I have always thought- do these people have no culture?

Whenever the Parsis left Iran they had a religion and I`m sure a culture too. Many Parsis name thier children after Cyrus or Darius. But these are Greek names, not Iranian names. What is the Iranian name of Cyrus? Kuruš. What is the Iranian mane for Darius? Dara. Why name children after a Greek name? Why if the Parsis are so proud of their Iranian heritage do they not follow thier own nomenclature?

As a community they help thier own kind and donot generally mix with the mainstream. I feel they have never really felt at home in India. They may have contributed to the freedom struggle and grown industries in India but their character is essentially European not Asian. In aping the British they have lost their own identity and have started to believe racist ideas of racial superiority and purity.

It is sad to see a community that once ruled great areas of Asia and Europe, who were masters of the world with Great Kings and Empires reduced to this state.

Re: # 34
Again, spoken like a true Muslim and Patriot.

Thanks for the comments. According to the Delhi Parsi Anjuman, in 2003, the number of recorded Parsi births in the city was 2 while the number of deaths was 8. Worse, only 4.7 per cent Parsis fall in the 0-6 age bracket; compare that to the national average of 15.9.

The idea is not to name famous Parsis; this is like flashing Azim Premji and the Khans of Hindi cinema as representatives of a community. Achievements of a few are not the only yardstick of judging the state of how a community has assimilated or adapted.

The point that has been made about in-breeding is valid and a serious concern in India. To say that a community may dwindle but not die is rather simplistic. For, that community is worried sick.

#13 by ferozk:

While I agree that the Parsis are law-abiding, I was surprised to read the following comment by you…
[The reason, which prevents them from marrying outside the religion, is as someone told me, ``a promise is a promise``. I was rather saddened to read that you feel that promises are conditional and can be broken, when you said, `` It is true that when they fled against persecution from Pars in Iran to Sanjan in Gujarat, the king had asked them to abstain from missionary activities and to marry only within their community. This, however, cannot apply to contemporary times``. What you consider as a flaw and a draw back, I consider as an example of the excellence of the Parsis, to have maintained a promise, which is indeed against their own best interests.]

Feroz, one is not talking about proselytising and forced conversions. Whether the community likes it or not, Parsis are marrying outside the fold. The problem is that due to their laws they are alienating the people who want to retain their links with the religion and community. I think it is sad that a woman cannot continue to practise her faith only because she marries outside. This has more to do with exclusion rather than integrity. And I say so because I happen to know a few such women.

Here is an excerpt from a report that was published in Hindustan Times; perhaps it may answer some more questions:
“If a Parsi boy marries a non-Parsi, only then can their kids be allowed to do the Navjot
[the baptism ceremony]; The wives, however, don’t qualify to be Parsis.
A landmark judgement in 1902 [Davar vs Beamont] is considered to be a referral
for intermarriages. The judgment laid down that non-Parsi spouses would have no
legal standing in the Parsi fold. The sentence is still serving its term.
But there’s hope yet. The Delhi Parsi Anjuman has broken out of that
stranglehold, and is now permitting non-Parsi spouses to be part of the
community affairs, although the Fire Temples and the Towers of Silence remain
out of bounds. “The problem is none of the other Anjumans all over the country
are willing to be part of this change process,” says (Lt. Gen. Retd. A.M.) Sethna.
The issue of conversions is largely one of deemed superiority. One cannot adopt
the Zoroastrian faith if you want to because the community forbids it.
Now here’s the catch: this has nothing to do with the scriptures. As popular VJ
Cyrus Broacha, says: “The ban on conversions has to do with preserving the
purity of the community but that was not what Zoroastrianism was all about when
we came to India more than a thousand years ago.”
Television actress Tanaaz Currim, who is married to a Muslim, feels likewise: “We can prevent the community from dying out by accepting children of mixed
marriages.” What is somewhat baffling is the straitjacket that the community has donned by choice: why are the Parsis, otherwise a progressive and visionary group of
people, willingly being shackled by traditions? “It’s a conundrum,” shrugs
Sethna, “one that cannot be explained rationally.”
- - -
#28 by bluegaze:

[That ghettos are formed because it is felt necessary by any group that is marginalized. Why target that same group, however priviliged it may be and put the onus of the matter
on them and say that `they` should participate in politics or whatever. The space to do so should be there in the first place. There is a whole psyche that exists behind it and it is not that easy to come out of it, if they should at all.]

Parsis, at least in India, are not marginalised. Fringe groups are those that are pushed outside due to their faith or other beliefs and practices. The Parsis have never been excluded; given their numbers they have held some of the top positions in India. That is the reason I emphasised in the article that they could be respected voices of minorities. They do have the space, the education and the abilities. Philanthropy (one keeps hearing about Parsis being in the forefront) is not only about doling out money. Incidentally, most Parsi institutions employ Parsis in large numbers.
- - -
#30 by harimau:

[Re participation in politics by Parsis:

Don`t tell me you have forgotten persons such as Minoo Masani (twice elected Member of Parliament and erstwhile member of the Constituent Assembly) and Piloo Mody (Member of the Rajya Sabha). Both were outspoken in their views. Masani went from being a Socialist to becoming a founder of the Swatantra Party. Mody was arrested in a midnight raid by Indira Gandhi after the proclamation of the Emergency.]

I had met Mr. Masani…did you know he believed that Jinnah would have made a better PM than Nehru? The names you and some others have given are few and at the highest level. We need real voices. Enough of this ‘Parsis are sweet, non-interfering melting-in-the-mouth’ stuff. I already mentioned the same goes for Aga Khanis. I have encountered statements like, “Oh, you people are different, not like those other Muslims. You stay out of this jhanjhat.” (Grocers and kaarigars, alas, do not read Chowk:) ) My grouse is, why is commenting on and questioning the country’s business jhanjhat? Why must one not ‘interfere’? I think it is our duty to.
- - -

[BTW, Her Highness, Farzana Versey (& her esteemed jaat of Moose Limbs) are considered ``MINORITIES``...in the Land of the Pure (morons)...try telling her THAT!:))lol
even JINNAH..the Champion of Subcontinental Muslims is a ``MINORITY`` these days in the Land of the Pure...]

Nobody has to tell me anything. Pakistan can choose who to call minorities or infidels. Being a minority within a minority within a minority in India gives me enough reason to ‘lol’ anyway…and btw, using the term ‘dukkar’ on a board such as this is hardly likely to defile the place or have a devastating impact. The Parsis love their bacon (and so did the founder of Pakistan).

Re: #25

I guess I am pointing at two different things here:
1. The decline of Parsi population
2. The decline of the Parsi culture

Now, we still have many Greeks. But what happened of the Greek culture that we read about? Did it decline because there were no more Greek people? No, it declined because people slowly forgot the customs, rituals, traditions, either consciously or unconsciously. So there are many Greeks in the world, but the ancient Greek culture is only in books, media and the internet, not alive.

A culture can remain alive only through people and on the other hand, people can kill a culture.

What`s happening with the Parsi culture is both, and that`s why it is so alarming. The people are disappearing and there seems to be no way that the culture can be carried forward in a live way. True culture carries forward through words, dresses, language, custom, traditions, the social fabric.

Get my point?

With respect,
Samir Shaikh