Through the Parsi Prism

Re: # 27
Ms. Durrani:
I am sorry but I don`t subscribe to your idea of adolescent patriotism. I am a Pakistani as well, but I don`t feel that it was such a great idea to build another theocratic state along the lines of Israel. I don`t think that it has accomplished much. It is truly still a country based on religious ideology instead of being a secular state where all faiths would be respected. Ask the Ahmedis, the Christians, the Bohris, etc if they feel safe in this country. Well, these are all minorities who will never be accepted or pulled out of their ghettos. This also brings me to the point I wanted to make about the article.

To FV:
That ghettos are formed because it is felt necessary by any group that is marginalized. Why target that same group, however priviliged it may be and put the onus of the matter
on them and say that `they` should participate in politics or whatever. The space to do so should be there in the first place. There is a whole psyche that exists behind it and it is not that easy to come out of it, if they should at all. Take the case of the Amish County in the US. In fact, your article made me think of the whole assimilation argument that goes on in Europe and the US which I personally think borders on racism and eurocentrism. That people who emigrate to these ``great`` countries should assimilate into their culture and not stand out like sore thumbs. Remember the case of muslim schoolgirls in France who could not wear their scarves to school? It is not easy for those who come from isolated, marginalized experiences to engage with the mainstream in a way that the vast majority does. But then i also think that people have a right to choose their engagements, political or a-political or whatever else and to say that they ``should`` do this or that is not very inclusive of their realities.
I do think that salim Chauhan`s comment about had Jinnah been parsi...... is funny

Re: # 24

Indeed it is fortunate that Pakistan exists, at least for Pakistanis. 58 years after its birth, you`d think that people like Salim, who probably weren`t even alive at the partition, would get used to its existence. Sad to see such sarcastic and mean-spirited comments. In the future, you may criticize what you wish regarding Pakistan but get used to it. It`s here and it will stay, Shukar Allah.

Re: # 11

Dear Farzana,

Thank you for your comment.

Today`s Parsis stay away from politics due to the violent nature of this business in the old world. However, in the new world, where political killings are not common, you will definitely see Parsi contribution in politics as well.

Respectfully submitted,

Behram B. Atashband

Re: # 23..samirfs you assert...{When a community, race or culture stops contributing to the larger society in terms of values, customs, rituals, and the fabric of culture, that`s when the decline of that particular race or culture sets in....} Have you ever talked with an Iranian muslim? True Iranians are proud of their history and they proudly admit to Zarathushtra`s philosophy of ``Good Thoughts, Good Words, and Good Deeds.``

What are you suggesting? Are you suggesting that the Zoroastrians had no influence on Judaism, Christianity and/or Islam? Or are you suggesting that today`s numerically disadvantaged Parsis are irrelevant to the societies that they live in?

Respectfully submitted,

Behram B. Atashband

Farzana,
Very informative and definitely interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Ferozk #13, {``If Ayub Khan had been a Parsi, Pakistan would have been a different country today! ``}

If Jinnah had wisely adopted the religion of his lovely wife, there would have been no Pakistan today. :)

When a community, race or culture stops contributing to the larger society in terms of values, customs, rituals, and the fabric of culture, that`s when the decline of that particular race or culture sets in. I am not talking of individual people of the Parsi community who have contributed immensely to India and the world, but about the community at large. What has the world gained or experienced of the Parsi culture? We only know about them through books, media and a little bit of interaction.
In her latest book, ``Dark Age Ahead``, Jane Jacobs, the famous urbanologists talks about the loss of customs, rituals, and the fabric of culture. ``Never mind the Internet or even printing -- both provide ``a false sense of security`` about a culture`s permanence. Jacobs insists that values and skills are perpetuated via word of mouth and examples people set.``
As the Gestalt theory might say, ``25,000 Parsis don`t make a Parsi `Culture`.``

Ref Faruk #20

[Just to add to what Fuzair said. Sam Manikshaw is not Parsi, but an Anglo Indian Christian.]

Not correct, I am afraid. With a name like Hormusji Framji Jamshedji Manekshaw, he is clearly of Parsi descent. I think the British officers of the Indian Army called him Sam and that could have led to your confusion.

Ref fuzair #18

[Sorry, Feroz. Sam Manekshaw wasn`t Chief during the Emergency; it was Gen. Raina (a Hindu) who told Gandhi that she had to get a fresh mandate from the people if she expected the Army to take orders from her.]

Indira Gandhi was so afraid of the popularity of Sam Maneckshaw that, after promoting him to the rank of Field Marshal, she exiled him to Ottawa as India`s High Commissioner to Canada.

Re:Ferozk #13 & fuzair#18

Just to add to what Fuzair said. Sam Manikshaw is not Parsi, but an Anglo Indian Christian. He is the General who led the Indian Army in 1971 and was promoted to field Marshal. India has had only two field Marshals since Independence.

Regards,

Faruk

Re: Article
Nice Article. The parsi’s may not be active in politics, but they get their way …all the time.

Regards,

Faruk

Sorry, Feroz. Sam Manekshaw wasn`t Chief during the Emergency; it was Gen. Raina (a Hindu) who told Gandhi that she had to get a fresh mandate from the people if she expected the Army to take orders from her.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_7-3-2005_pg1_5
Clerics seeking decree to declare Aga Khanis infidels

Re: # 11
FV,
All I can say is that the World Conservation Union has a very active and influential parsi working for them - since the organization works on conserving nature and endangered species, I am sure that they have put parsis on their endangered species` Red List - ;)
Secondly, why do you think that Parsis should participate or be more active in politics? What is that going to establish? I personally think that ghettoization at times is not such a bad thing. It`s quite romantic actually - Ok maybe I will provide more constructive feedback on your article when I am in a better mood - Later then.

Re: # 13

Feroze,

{{The reason, which prevents them from marrying outside the religion, is as someone told me, ``a promise is a promise``. I was rather saddened to read that you feel that promises are conditional and can be broken, when you said, `` It is true that when they fled against persecution from Pars in Iran to Sanjan in Gujarat, the king had asked them to abstain from missionary activities and to marry only within their community. This, however, cannot apply to contemporary times``. What you consider as a flaw and a draw back, I consider as an example of the excellence of the Parsis, to have maintained a promise, which is indeed against their own best interests.

This is called intergrity of character and it would be nice if more people would learn this trait.}}

Aw c`maaaaan! Feroze...
``promise is a promise; eh?!``
That is SUCH a Goddamned anachronism!...with PURE RACIST undertones..:)))

Soli Sorabji`s son went to same high school & med school as I did. The above is HIS quote...when I feebly tried to explain why they didnt ALLOW mois to become a Parsi. He fell in love with a brahmin sister of a famous cricketer. He took on his mother`s religion (Ba`hai) in ``protest``....actually, cos its LESS racist than frikkin` bawadom:)

Yup...& all of us are VERY proud of our deeeekrah Sam Maneckshaw, who along with Gen Jagjit Arora kicked the crap of that Pathan Niazi-pig (who had the unmitigated GALL to equate his murdering jawans to the Afrika Corps!)

Re: # 9

Amy Minwallah converted to Islam, when she married a Muslim and her children are Muslims. After the divorce, Amy aunty raised them by herself, making money by teaching dance and piano lessons. One of her daughters, is my co-workers.

However, I do agree, with you that Ms. Versey is off the mark.

I had no problems interacting with Parsis and yes; Parsi girls are fun... :)

Ciao

re: Farzana

Nice article.

The Parsis are a very law abiding community and the in the modern times, though the number of the Parsis are dwindling, there is a demographic movement away towards Australia and the United States. The Parsis may be losing their numberical presence in India and Pakistan, but they are becoming increasingly concentrated in Texas and in eastern Australia. The young Parsis are marrying outside the fold and in time, what will happen is that Parsis community, will be diluted through inter-marriages, but Parsis will not die out as a community.

The reason, which prevents them from marrying outside the religion, is as someone told me, ``a promise is a promise``. I was rather saddened to read that you feel that promises are conditional and can be broken, when you said, `` It is true that when they fled against persecution from Pars in Iran to Sanjan in Gujarat, the king had asked them to abstain from missionary activities and to marry only within their community. This, however, cannot apply to contemporary times``. What you consider as a flaw and a draw back, I consider as an example of the excellence of the Parsis, to have maintained a promise, which is indeed against their own best interests.

This is called intergrity of character and it would be nice if more people would learn this trait.

Parsis do express their political opinions and they do it in a much more civilized manner than the most of us. In Pakistan, for example, they are expressing their disquiet, with the conditions by choosing to migrate outside of Pakistan and that is a political statement in itself. Some, like M. P. Bhandara, who is a member of the National Assembly in Islamabad, are stating the case of political representation of the minorities vocally and with conviction. Cowasjee of Dawn fame is one of the most articulate and intrenchent critic of the officialdom in Pakistan and stands taller than most of his political contempories.

Traditionally, Parsis have avoided politics and have sought the professions of business, medicine and engineering, but they are politically aware and are quite active in politics.
The reason, why they are not seen, in the political arena, is because they express themselves within the law and they do not break the law, because the law is bad. Parsis are highly patriotic people, and in some cases, their respect for the law of the land is higher and much deeper than the natives themselves and they will never create or justify an argument to fracture the law for any reason.

If memory serves me right; one of India`s Attorney-Generals, during the last BJP government, was a Parsi and perhaps, one of the best examples of a Parsi stating his political opinion, in India, was Sam Manekshaw, when he told Indra Gandhi that the army would not help her during the period of emergency in India. Parsis do state their opinions, but the key to remember is that their opinions are grounded within the limits of law and they will never express an opinion, which is outside the limits prescribed by the law. Parsis have a well defined political opinion and that is; to uphold the law. As an Indian, you should thank your lucky stars that when Indra Gandhi made the suggestion that the army help her out politically, the chief of the army was a Parsi! :)

If Ayub Khan had been a Parsi, Pakistan would have been a different country today!

Ciao