Through the Parsi Prism

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Hmm??

Anyway, quick note...Saal Mubarak!

And a laugh at my own expense where I mention towards the end about ``the mortal remains of those who die``...only I could have had a Freudian slip about the possibility of the mortal remains of the living!

Parsis marrying outside the community are treated as outsiders, especially women. Many have protested and believe that accepting cross-religious alliances will in fact help the community. I am not suggesting they are not liberal in outlook; it is tradition and survival that act as a dampener.

I do believe that Parsis ought to speak up on political matters, their numbers notwithstanding. They have the respect of people and that is a huge asset. (Incidentally, I have a similar grouse against the community I was born into -- The Aga Khanis.)
- - -
Behram:

I usually avoid making personal comments, but your sign off, ``Respectfully submitted`` was just so quaint and sweet :)

hmmm.

“The problem facing the Parsis is marriage outside the fold. They do not accept converts. Worse, a woman marrying a non-Parsi is given short-shrift.”

I think, Ms.Versey you are slightly off the mark here. I went to school and then college with some parsi kids-both boys and girls- in Karachi and they never seemed to have any problem with relationships outside of their community.

I don’t know how Ms. Versey missed it, but Mr. Jinnah’s wife was parsi, she switched to Islam and then I believe went back to being a parsi. Mr. Jinnah’s daughter and her kids are fully integrated with the Parsi community in Bombay and also in New York.

Karachiates most likely would know the Minwalla family. They used to or probably still own Metropole Hotel in Karachi. For a long time it was a premier hotel in Karachi (not any more though) Two of the Minwalla siblings, Amy and her brother, worked in Pakistani movies. She was a dancer and her brother-I forgot his name, obviously- worked as a bad boy in several movies.
Ms. Amy Minwalla was married to a Muslim and after the divorce raised her kids as Parsi. Ms. Minwalla, I believe, now lives in New York and she or her kids own a travel agency in Midtown Manhattan.

Parsis not expressing themselves…not our own Mr.Ardsher Kawasji. It has been a long time that Karachi has seen such a loudmouth on everything under the sun. Mr. Kawasji writes for Dawn and often scares the sh1t out of many public officials.

In business, Behram Avari is probably the biggest crook that Pakistani Business community has ever seen. He is settled down now but some 10-15 years ago he was a terror in Karachi business community. Beside Avari Hiltons, he owns many other businesses including, reportedly some smuggling operation spread over Karachi and the Middle East.

Karachi has two Parsi areas: Parsi Colony and the Parsi Compound. Parsi girls like to have some fun....

My side of the family belongs to a small west coast Hindu community (The Gaud Saraswat Brahmins of a certain kind...yup, there are several kinds) that aught to be worried about its existence (exclusive genes, and all that), but collectively couldn`t care less. The logic of the elders was/is: when civilizations have flourished and perished, what`s a little community to do? Why worry, let`s eat, drink and incorporate the rest of the world. In my family, I can think of but one or two cousins who`ve married into the community, and that was entirely thanks to `love`. By and large, I think the Bawas (as the Parsis are known in Bombay) aught to publicise their philosophy....a pretty good one it is, rather than moan about dropping numbers. Future followers may not be pure-bred Parsis, but the religion won`t then die out. Ideas outlive Man.

Farzana

(Why don`t Parsis express their opinion on general political matters?)

I think they have been very sensible. Their eviction from Iran was not a pleasant experience. So instead of fighting against great odds of majorities, they chose to keep quiet , live peacefully and prosper. Which they have done.

Since they do not preach and believe in conversions - and not marry outside, their numbers are now indeed dangerously low.

Zoroastrianism gave the first concepts of the Abrahamic faiths - One God, Satan, Day of judgement, heaven & hell.

Judaism was greatly influenced by the Zoroastrian practices. No preaching. No conversions. No politics. No politics. (Until Hitler`s rush of blood)

But the further off-shoots like Christianity & Islam were all for conversions and politics.

Christianity now seems to have shed religion from politics. But Islam is still in full swing.

So it goes to the great credit of Parsis to have kept themselves sublimely peaceful and tolerant through all the history. They are good people by all accounts.

But they need to start marrying outside - for their own survival so that they are not left behind only in the pages of history.

nhk

my father is parsi - whether that makes me one or not is hotly debated by traditionalists and reformists, and has been for over a century. famous parsi families such as the tatas and the wadias contain non-parsi ``blood`` but are generally regarded as being parsi, while on the other side traditionalists proudly boast of the prevelance of genetic disorders in their families and community created by in-breeding as proof of their racial ``purity``! I`m glad to have escaped!!

i always find opinions such as kaurasach (#3) shockingly ignorant, whether they come from within the community or without:
``It is said that Persians (before being polluted by Arab blood, and becoming muslims) were distant cousins of Indus civilization. ``

``Pure race``, ``blood pollution``, ``pure aryan``... these are terms one frequently comes across all over the world, particularly in India. However, they mean ABSOLUTELY ZILCH!!

coming back to the original question, in recent years i think the parsi community have just felt too outnumbered in elections to make any political difference (even in bombay, their stronghold, they make up a mere 0.5% of the electorate) - voting and candidates still follow caste and religious divisions in india to a large extent, and candidates and parties understandably target issues which affect communities having real voting power.

There were parsis involved in the independence struggle, and their economic success must give them greater political power than their numbers might otherwise suggest. However, aware of their potential vulnerability as a wealthy but tiny community, often perceived as having ``non-indian `` roots (although again most communities in india would probably fit into this category somewhere along the line!) they shy away from attracting undue attention.

my father is parsi - whether that makes me one or not is hotly debated by traditionalists and reformists, and has been for over a century. famous parsi families such as the tatas and the wadias contain non-parsi ``blood`` but are generally regarded as being parsi, while on the other side traditionalists proudly boast of the prevelance of genetic disorders in their families and community created by in-breeding as proof of their racial ``purity``! I`m glad to have escaped!!

i always find opinions such as kaurasach (#3) shockingly ignorant, whether they come from within the community or without:
``It is said that Persians (before being polluted by Arab blood, and becoming muslims) were distant cousins of Indus civilization. ``

``Pure race``, ``blood pollution``, ``pure aryan``... these are terms one frequently comes across all over the world, particularly in India. However, they mean ABSOLUTELY ZILCH!!

coming back to the original question, in recent years i think the parsi community have just felt too outnumbered in elections to make any political difference (even in bombay, their stronghold, they make up a mere 0.5% of the electorate) - voting and candidates still follow caste and religious divisions in india to a large extent, and candidates and parties understandably target issues which affect communities having real voting power.

There were parsis involved in the independence struggle, and their economic success must give them greater political power than their numbers might otherwise suggest. However, aware of their potential vulnerability as a wealthy but tiny community, often perceived as having ``non-indian `` roots (although again most communities in india would probably fit into this category somewhere along the line!) they shy away from attracting undue attention.

Nice article and certain bits were hilarious also.
I think supreme court is correct in favouring The Zoroastrian Co-operative Housing Society. All people should be given the rights to fraternize with the kind of people they want. As long as the law of land is equal, parsis should have equal right to form their societies.
I think Tatas and Godrejs surely express their opinions in politics by donating generously to political parties.
Cannot comment on religion because its their personal matter to decide who is parsi and who is not.

I`ve never met a Parsi. I know only this much. They fled Arab/Islamic persecutions after conquest of Persia to Gujrat.

They were smart in not interfering in local politics and probably the key to their commercial success and preservation.

It is said that Persians (before being polluted by Arab blood, and becoming muslims) were distant cousins of Indus civilization. Is that why that `thread ritual` is simmilar to the juneau?

Anyways, they are an excellent example of how a tiny minority of `refugees` have excelled.

When a society is too inclusive or too exclusive, it leads to its demise. ex- ancient Athens and Sparta.

Dear Farzana,

Thank you for a very well written article.

My response to your assertion .....{Due to the initiative of this liberal community, others too now have the choice to restrict membership based on religious affiliation. The danger is it could extend to other areas. In a country like India this is not desirable. We will have pure vegetarian colonies, colonies only for people working in multi-nationals, we are being divided, and I am shocked that the first stone was cast by the Parsis.} is the fact is that this exclusivity is already happening.

Recently, David Brooks of the New York Times had written about similar concept. He called this ``cultural geography``. For your reading pleasure....

All Cultures Are Not Equal

By DAVID BROOKS

Published: August 10, 2005

Let`s say you are an 18-year-old kid with a really big brain. You`re trying to figure out which field of study you should devote your life to, so you can understand the forces that will be shaping history for decades to come.

Go into the field that barely exists: cultural geography. Study why and how people cluster, why certain national traits endure over centuries, why certain cultures embrace technology and economic growth and others resist them.

This is the line of inquiry that is now impolite to pursue. The gospel of multiculturalism preaches that all groups and cultures are equally wonderful. There are a certain number of close-minded thugs, especially on university campuses, who accuse anybody who asks intelligent questions about groups and enduring traits of being racist or sexist. The economists and scientists tend to assume that material factors drive history - resources and brain chemistry - because that`s what they can measure and count.

But none of this helps explain a crucial feature of our time: while global economies are converging, cultures are diverging, and the widening cultural differences are leading us into a period of conflict, inequality and segmentation.

Not long ago, people said that globalization and the revolution in communications technology would bring us all together. But the opposite is true. People are taking advantage of freedom and technology to create new groups and cultural zones. Old national identities and behavior patterns are proving surprisingly durable. People are moving into self-segregating communities with people like themselves, and building invisible and sometimes visible barriers to keep strangers out.

If you look just around the United States you find amazing cultural segmentation. We in America have been ``globalized`` (meaning economically integrated) for centuries, and yet far from converging into some homogeneous culture, we are actually diverging into lifestyle segments. The music, news, magazine and television markets have all segmented, so there are fewer cultural unifiers like Life magazine or Walter Cronkite.

Forty-million Americans move every year, and they generally move in with people like themselves, so as the late James Chapin used to say, every place becomes more like itself. Crunchy places like Boulder attract crunchy types and become crunchier. Conservative places like suburban Georgia attract conservatives and become more so.

Not long ago, many people worked on farms or in factories, so they had similar lifestyles. But now the economy rewards specialization, so workplaces and lifestyles diverge. The military and civilian cultures diverge. In the political world, Democrats and Republicans seem to live on different planets.

Meanwhile, if you look around the world you see how often events are driven by groups that reject the globalized culture. Islamic extremists reject the modern cultures of Europe, and have created a hyperaggressive fantasy version of traditional Islamic purity. In a much different and less violent way, some American Jews have moved to Hebron and become hyper-Zionists.

From Africa to Seattle, religiously orthodox students reject what they see as the amoral mainstream culture, and carve out defiant revival movements. From Rome to Oregon, antiglobalization types create their own subcultures.

The members of these and many other groups didn`t inherit their identities. They took advantage of modernity, affluence and freedom to become practitioners of a do-it-yourself tribalism. They are part of a great reshuffling of identities, and the creation of new, often more rigid groupings. They have the zeal of converts.

Meanwhile, transnational dreams like European unification and Arab unity falter, and behavior patterns across nations diverge. For example, fertility rates between countries like the U.S. and Canada are diverging. Work habits between the U.S. and Europe are diverging. Global inequality widens as some nations with certain cultural traits prosper and others with other traits don`t.

People like Max Weber, Edward Banfield, Samuel Huntington, Lawrence Harrison and Thomas Sowell have given us an inkling of how to think about this stuff, but for the most part, this is open ground.

If you are 18 and you`ve got that big brain, the whole field of cultural geography is waiting for you.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/10/opinion/11brooks.done.html?ex=1124596800&en=abfffeaf44688248&ei=5070

Respectfully submitted,

Behram B. Atashband

Nice. Write descriptive stuff rather than the analysing stuff that you cannot do..yet.

`Why don`t Parsis express their opinion on general political matters? Is this distancing a strategy for survival?`

In kaka`s world of personal responsibility for your children (as opposed to state`s responsibility) and careful collection and distribution of resources, communities are central. Parsis and many other closeted communities are tested examples of how indivdual interests (which is all we have) are served by large groups formed by their common worldview or even geographical proximity (small states).

The sooner we get away from nationalism, gigantic engines of tax collection and distribution and reliance on a central governmen thousands of miles away, the better individual interests are served.