Saudi Government to Demolish Prophet Muhammed’s home

Re: # 41 cranberry {``In both cases they made a fool of themselves by trying to be more loyal than the king. The earlier this `inferiority complex` of being a muslim but not being a pure blood arab goes the better it is. Be a confident muslim and confident indian/pakistani also but don`t try to trace yr roots from arabs.``}

Sound advice. Islam should be practiced as a purely personal faith. It is too potent a force, with too much history and excess baggage, to surrender to uncontrolled masses or those under the control of self-serving demagogues.

Muslim minorities, especially those in India, US, and the West, should abandon all their Jamaats, ICNAs, Leagues, and Anjumans and let Islam survive as a good religion for individuals. These minorities should participate fully and legally in their respective countries without paying any heed to the so-called Muslim ``Ummah.`` There is no such thing, never was, and never will be. It is an invention of crafty, sneaky, insidious and self-serving power grabbers who use it for their own gain.

I refuse to join a club that would have me as a member, :)

Thanks,

Why do we protect these monsters called Saudis? Why do we enrich them by supporting their economy? Why do we even call them humans? Why do we let them destroy our heritage?

Re: # 39 Hassan {``The greed for power (and consequent cruelty and intolerance) has existed in every society, regardless of their religion.:}

Hassan,
But nobody excels at it better than Muslims. :) especially against their own.

Dressed up and nowhere to go

I think this has happened to the muslim faithfuls of India a second time
First in 1920s a huge ruckus was created as the British/French took up the territory from Turky/Caliph. Then came around Attaturk Kamal and he himself abolished the calipahte.

Now currently the muslims in India are always in mental agony and what not since babri was destroyed. The calcutta airport has troubles expanding because of a dargah coming in way. Since 1992 they are electing crooks like Lalu/Mulayam because they won`t allow any masjid to be bulldozed. In the process muslims get corrupt administration, no development and lawless ness .An entire generation is wasted away trying ti take revenge for Babri

In both cases they made a fool of themselves by trying to be more loyal than the king. The earlier this `inferiority complex` of being a muslim but not being a pure blood arab goes the better it is. Be a confident muslim and confident indian/pakistani also but don`t try to trace yr roots from arab.

I suppose in defense of them, ( im trying to understand their viewpoint rather than to excuse them!!) , at least they are not hypocritical (regarding this aspect - im sure it wouldnt be very difficult to find another aspect where they were !) - even the king was buried in an unmarked grave, in keeping with their own particular orthodoxy.
And in christianity, another monotheistic religion, shrines and saints and virgins and churches and places do attract as much attention as ``god `` him/herself, which is probably contrary to jesus` teachings.

I think humans tend to attach themselves to icons, idols, special places etc in order to try to bridge the gap between god and themselves. If this practice is considered as a dangerous deviation from the true spiritual nature of the divinity (as it is in wahabism, and also christian puritanism for example), then i can understand to a certain extent their desire (though not their zeal) to avoid this, and to demolish ``religious red herrings``.

however, there is no more justification for their own ultra puritan reading of the Quran than for any other interpretation, - indeed the Quran speaks of mecca as being a special place in which to revere Allah, and by destroying these historic places which they are supposedly keeping in trust for all muslims, they are depriving both muslims and humanity at large of their heritage. Let us be thankful that Wahabism is not overly present on the subcontinent - that would really put a spanner in the works!!

I am also surprised that this issue has not been taken up more publicly by muslim leaders, or are they all too afraid of diluting the current hatred for all things ``western`` which is felt throughout the civilian populations of their countries, diverting these people away from their own political and social problems?

btw,the article in the independent can be viewed at this address: http://www.rense.com/general67/mecca.htm

Re: # 33

``Muslims over the centuries have enshrined hypocrisy, intolerance, and cruelty as a second nature. It is apparent in Muslim society, in Pakistan, and even on Chowk.``

This is a very generalized and presumptious statement. Your intolerance for Muslims also reeks from this statement. I can also make a similar statement about people of any other religions and provide examples in history of what they have done to people of other religions. So lets not get into the whole ``intolerance`` debate. Its not just Muslims.

The greed for power (and consequent cruelty and intolerance) has existed in every society, regardless of their religion.

#30, AlephNull {``I await the obliteration of the Kaaba with bated breath.:{

Aleph,
That too would be a tragedy from a historian`s perspective. As for the religious significance of the Kaaba, I have always found it to be an oxymoron. On the one hand Muslims abhor idolatry, even succumbing to wanton destruction of statues and temples that may house them. On the other hand, they prostrate so many times each day in the direction of Mecca to pay homage to a little black stone, that ostensibly came down to earth from the heavens. It is a meteorite and just another stone. I do think it should be preserved as the Buddha in Bamiyaan should have been. Not to mention the idols in Somnath and thousands of Hindu temples destroyed by the iconoclasts.
In Turkey, I am ashamed by the missing noses and disfigured faces of statues in Cappadocia, Ephesus, and other sites housing antiquities.
At least, the modern Turkish government is very strict about preserving our heritage.

#32 by aisha_sarwari on August 20, 2005 2:30pm PT


The number of time Indians think they know all the answers and have the monopoly over all the logical conclusions.


That`s ok..pakis have a monopoly on illogical conclusions....

#34, Raw Dust {``I am not sure about the etymology of word Allah``}

I believe it has commonality with the Hebrew ``Elohim`` or the ``Ilahi, Ilahi la ma sabakhtiyani`` in Aramaic that Jesus is reported to have said when dying on the cross.

arjun #29, {``If muslims do it, it`s kosher....the rest of the world has to live up to a higher standard...``}

Arjun,
Unfortunately, I have to agree with you. Can you imagine if the U.S. Air Froce had accidentally bombed the Holy Prophet`s (PBUH) house in Medina?

The jihadists would have been setting fire to their own beards.

AlephNull:
I am not sure about the etymology of word Allah but it seems a weird twist on Al-Laath. Other godesses definitely got the boot, i aint sure about al-laath bibi.

Ranjit #23, {``The question is why does Islam inspire extreme emotions, especially hatred among many of its followers? I had read somewhere that during the lifetime of Muhammad and even later, there were many versions of the Quran. The third caliph, Uthman burnt all the copies of Quran except for one and made that the official one. I wouldnt be surprised if there was a grand conspiracy to doctor the Quran to support Arab imperial ambitions.``}

Ranjit,
Muslims over the centuries have enshrined hypocrisy, intolerance, and cruelty as a second nature. It is apparent in Muslim society, in Pakistan, and even on Chowk. There is no appreciation for public opinion, majority rule, or even inviolable individual rights. Thus, those in power (and they attain power forcefully and absolutely) trample the rights of individuals and even majorities. This is true in Saudi Arabia, in Pakistan, and even on Chowk.

Muslim holy places, and I have visited quite a few in Rajasthan, Fatehpur Sikri, Lucknow, Faizabad, and Delhi, are much better protected in India than in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and even Pakistan. Of course, the Babri Masjid is a tragic exception.

As for the possible tampering of the Koran, you are not alone in your doubts. Yes, once the Caliph Osman ``assembled`` all the verses written on leaves, parchment, hides, and paper, and after consulting with the Hafiz (those who memorized the verses), he did have the sources destroyed, ostensibly to prevent confusion in the future. Unfortunately, as questioned by many Shias, there may have been deletions, additions, and convenient textual mods, perhaps to benefit the prevailing oligarchy of Quraish. By this time, most of the Holy Prophet`s (PBUH) former enemies, e.g. Hinda, Muawiya, Abu Sufiyan, and others had become ``Muslim.`` The ensuing destruction of the Holy Prophet`s (PBUH) family (murders of Ali, Hassan, and Hussain along with most of his relatives) at the hands of these ``new`` Muslims is the basis of much tragic animosity and hatred within Islam.

Re: # 30

The number of time Indians think they know all the answers and have the monopoly over all the logical conclusions.

Wahhabis do have a point. Allah mian is very insecure according to Wahhabi mythology and might get wrong ideas if devotees co-opt a visit to mohammad`s birthplace in mecca (e.g) and make it an obligation in their Ummrah/Hajj itinerary. That would be proximate Shirk so it is imperative for wahhabis to discourage and stop (being the custodians of two-holy-mosques) any devotees getting over the line and ending up in Hell for eternity for committing Shirk.

Wazir Mansion is a place of birth of a founder of a nation state, a thoroughly secular concept that only came into existence in late 1680s. Plus, jinnah aint the member of the blessed and the sacred club of Islam, hence no possibility of a Muslim really intending to pay respect to jinnah in anyother context except temporal/materialistic.


Last Sermon of Holy Prophet was about muslim brotherhood and it is really a stretch to confuse muslim exclusivity with humanism or egalitarianism. heck, i will post the whole sermon here.



THE LAST SERMON OF THE HOLY PROPHET OF ISLAM
(Peace and Love of Allah may eternally descend upon Him and His Pious Family and Companions)




``All praise is due to Allah, so we praise Him, and seek His pardon and we
turn to Him. We seek refuge with Allah from the evils of ourselves and
from the evil consequences of our deeds. Whom Allah guides aright there is
none to lead him astray; and there is none to guide him aright whom Allah
leads astray. I bear witness that there is no God but Allah, the One,
having no partner with Him. His is the sovereignty and to Him is due all
praise. He grants life and causes death and is Powerful over everything.
There is no God but Allah, the One; He fulfilled His promise and granted
victory to His bondsman, and He alone routed the confederates (of the
enemies of Islam).

O’ People! Listen to my words, for I do not know whether we shall ever
meet again and perform Hajj after this year. O’ Ye people! Allah says, O’
people We created you from one male and one female and made you into
tribes and nations, so as to be known to one another. Verily in the sight
of Allah, the most honoured amongst you is the one who is most
God-fearing. There is no superiority for an Arab over a non-Arab and for a
non-Arab over an Arab, nor for the white over the black nor for the black
over the white except in God-conciousness.

All mankind is the progeny of Adam and Adam was fashioned out of clay.
Behold; every claim of privilege whether that of blood or property, is
under my heels except that of the custody of the Ka’bah and supplying of
water to the pilgrims, O’ people of Quraish, don’t appear (on the Day of
Judgement) with the burden of this world around your necks, whereas other
people may appear (before the Lord) with the rewards of the hereafter. In
that case I shall avail you naught against Allah.

Behold! All practice of the days of ignorance are now under my feet. The
blood revenges of the days of ignorance are remitted. The first claim on
blood I abolish is that of Ibn Rabiah bin Harith who was nursed in the
tribe of Sa’ad and whom the Hudhayls killed. All interest and usurious
dues accruing from the times of ignorance stand wiped out. And the first
amount of interest that I remit is that which Abbas ibn Abd-al Muttalib
had to receive. Verily it is remitted entirely.

O’ people! Verily yor blood, your property and your honour are sacred and
inviolable until you appear before your Lord, as the sacred inviolability
of this day of yours, this month of yours and this very town (of yours).
Verily you will soon meet your Lord and you will be held answerable for
your actions.

O’ people! Verily you have got certain rights over your women and your
women have certain rights over you. It is your right upon them to honour
their conjugal rights, and not to commit acts of impropriety, which if
they do, you are authorised by Allah to separate them from your beds amd
chastise them, but not severely, and if they refrain, then clothe and feed
them properly.

Behold! It is not permissible for a woman to give anything from the wealth
of her husband to anyone but with his consent.

Treat the women kindly, since they are your helpers and not in a position
to manage their affairs themselves. Fear Allah concerning women, for
verily you have taken them on the security of Allah and have made their
persons lawful unto you by words of Allah.

O’ people! Allah, the Mighty and Exalted, has ordained to every one his
due share (of inheritance). Hence there is no need (of special) testament
for an heir (departing from the rules laid down by the Shari’ah).

The child belongs to the marriage-bed and the violator of wedlock shall be
stoned. And Reckoning of their (deeds) rests with Allah.

He who attributes his ancestry to other than his father or claims his
clientship to other than his master, the curse of Allah is upon him.

All depts must be repaid, all borrowed property must be returned, gifts
should be reciprocated and a surety must make good the loss to the assured.

Beware! No one committing a crime is responsible for it but himself.
Neither the child is responsible for the crime of his father, nor the
father is responsible for the crime of his child.

Nothing of his brother is lawful for a Muslim except what he himself gives
willingly. So do not wrong yourselves.

O’ People! Every Muslim is the brother of every other Muslim, and all the
Muslims form one brotherhood. And your slaves; see that you feed them with
such food as you eat yourselves, and clothe them with the clothes that you
yourselves wear.

Take heed not to go astray after me and strike one another’s necks. He who
(amongst you) has any trust with him, he must return it to its owner.

O’ people! Listen and obey, though a mangled Abyssinian slave is appointed
your Amir, provided he executes (the Ordinance of) the Book of Allah among
you.

O’ people! No Prophet would be raised after me and no new Ummah (would be
formed) after you.

Verily I have left amongst you that which will never lead you astray, the
Book of Allah, which if you hold fast you shall never go astray.

And beware of transgressing the limits set in the matters of religion, for
it is transgression of (the proper bounds of) religion that brought
destruction to many people before you.


Verily, the satan is disappointed at ever being worshipped in this land of
yours, but he will be pleased by obedience in anything (short of worship
that is) in matters you may be disposed to think insignificant, so beware
of him in your matters of religion.

Behold! Worship your Lord; offer prayers five times a day; observe fast in
the month of Ramadhaan; pay readily the Zakat (poor due) on your property;
and perform pilgrimage to the House of God and obey your rulers and you
will be admitted to the Paradise of your Lord.

Let him that is present, convey it unto him who is absent, for many people
to whom the message is conveyed may be more mindful of it than the
audience.

And if you were asked about me, what would you say?``

They answered, ``We bear witness that you have conveyed the trust (of
religion) and discharged your ministry of Prophethood and looked to our
welfare.``

Thereupon Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) lifted his forefinger
towards the sky and then pointing towards people said:

``O’ Lord: Bear Thou witness unto it.

O’ Lord: Bear Thou witness unto it.``
(Khutbat-ul-Hajjatul Wida, Seerat Ibne Hesham)
Source: http://www.inter-islam.org/condex.htm

I’m not sure what all the fuss is about now that the wheel is nearing full-circle. The Pefect Man and his followers began this cycle of destruction when they had al-Uzza, al-Lat and Manat booted out of Mecca, and the three hundred and sixty idols in around the Kaaba smashed and burned. It’s a scandal that it’s taken nearly fourteen centuries for the Salafis to continue the good work and bring it close to its logical conclusion. I await the obliteration of the Kaaba with bated breath.

I am sure that if the news is leaked to the public, there would be strong protest from multiple quarters in the Muslim world to stop this thoughtless act.


There`ll be as much protest as we saw when saddam was killing iraqis...the protests will be just like those against the saudi policy of not allowing women to drive...

the arab street will be on fire...

NOT....

If muslims do it, it`s kosher....the rest of the world has to live up to a higher standard...