Farzan Mahmood August 20, 2005
#28 Posted by Zeena on August 20, 2005 2:02:42 pm
Saudis are absolutely NOT human beings.Shame on them for destroying heritage for all Muslim world.As a matter of fact Saudis don`t have any right on such heritage.
Saudis are just an embarrasement for all Muslims.
Saudis are just an embarrasement for all Muslims.
#27 Posted by Naqshbandi on August 20, 2005 2:01:05 pm
Re: # 9
Well said! The original Wahabbis animals killed thousands and thousands of Muslims and tied their horses in the courtyard of the Masjid e Nabawi Sharif and they raped thousands of Muslim women and girls, all in the city of the Prophet (sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam) before the Ottoman Sultan despatched an army to deal with them.
They are a cancer on the body of Islam which needs to be removed.
Well said! The original Wahabbis animals killed thousands and thousands of Muslims and tied their horses in the courtyard of the Masjid e Nabawi Sharif and they raped thousands of Muslim women and girls, all in the city of the Prophet (sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam) before the Ottoman Sultan despatched an army to deal with them.
They are a cancer on the body of Islam which needs to be removed.
#26 Posted by Naqshbandi on August 20, 2005 1:56:18 pm
Thanks for this Farzan. You beat me to the punch! Yes ever since reading about it in the Indepedent (London), my blood has been boiling. It is not the first time. Sunni ulama and others have been crying hoarse for ages about the destruction those Wahabbi fanatics are doing. This is the latest. Previously the shrines of most of the Ahlul Bayt and Sayyida Fatima az Zahra salam Ullah alayha, in particular, and most recently, that of Sayyida Amina (the Beloved Prophet`s mother) has been bulldozed.
The late head mufti of the Wahabbis Ibn Baz (may he get his just deserts in the grave!) even stated along with al Albani, another Wahabbi headhoncho, that they want to destroy the Roza e Aqdas as well--Allah forbid!
The sooner Wahabbistan aka Saudi Arabia is rid of the Saudis and Wahabbism the better for the whole Islamic world and the world in general. Right now, I`d support an American invasion of Riyadh to topple the Saudis.
The late head mufti of the Wahabbis Ibn Baz (may he get his just deserts in the grave!) even stated along with al Albani, another Wahabbi headhoncho, that they want to destroy the Roza e Aqdas as well--Allah forbid!
The sooner Wahabbistan aka Saudi Arabia is rid of the Saudis and Wahabbism the better for the whole Islamic world and the world in general. Right now, I`d support an American invasion of Riyadh to topple the Saudis.
#25 Posted by wiseguyin on August 20, 2005 1:47:38 pm
Re: # 22
Manto - u have a point. Taken from ``just`` a heritage perspective, i guess it would be wrong to demolish any such structure.
Ranjit -
[The question is why does Islam inspire extreme emotions, especially hatred among many of its followers? .....]
Ranjit - it has till now inspired hatred among its followers, but i guess it has started inspiring hatred among non-followers too :)
And THIS is the silver lining !
regards
Manto - u have a point. Taken from ``just`` a heritage perspective, i guess it would be wrong to demolish any such structure.
Ranjit -
[The question is why does Islam inspire extreme emotions, especially hatred among many of its followers? .....]
Ranjit - it has till now inspired hatred among its followers, but i guess it has started inspiring hatred among non-followers too :)
And THIS is the silver lining !
regards
#24 Posted by MantoLives on August 20, 2005 1:38:35 pm
Re: # 21
Personality cult? I think this is the weakest excuse for Saudi actions...
I am afraid I don`t see anything in the Prophet`s last sermon- which is one of the world`s earliest bill of rights- that says: thou shall not revere my memory, thou shall destroy my house and abuse my family... Please feel free to correct me...
By an extension of your argument, I suppose we should abolish Wazir Mansion and build a multi storey building there?
Personality cult? I think this is the weakest excuse for Saudi actions...
I am afraid I don`t see anything in the Prophet`s last sermon- which is one of the world`s earliest bill of rights- that says: thou shall not revere my memory, thou shall destroy my house and abuse my family... Please feel free to correct me...
By an extension of your argument, I suppose we should abolish Wazir Mansion and build a multi storey building there?
#23 Posted by Ranjit on August 20, 2005 1:36:39 pm
Re:Salim_Chauhan#16
Salim, all religions have a core of good teachings and values. No one can become a prophet and come up with a religion unless they have some divine inspiration.
The question is why does Islam inspire extreme emotions, especially hatred among many of its followers? I had read somewhere that during the lifetime of Muhammad and even later, there were many versions of the Quran. The third caliph, Uthman burnt all the copies of Quran except for one and made that the official one. I wouldnt be surprised if there was a grand conspiracy to doctor the Quran to support Arab imperial ambitions.
Salim, all religions have a core of good teachings and values. No one can become a prophet and come up with a religion unless they have some divine inspiration.
The question is why does Islam inspire extreme emotions, especially hatred among many of its followers? I had read somewhere that during the lifetime of Muhammad and even later, there were many versions of the Quran. The third caliph, Uthman burnt all the copies of Quran except for one and made that the official one. I wouldnt be surprised if there was a grand conspiracy to doctor the Quran to support Arab imperial ambitions.
#22 Posted by MantoLives on August 20, 2005 1:35:25 pm
Wiseguy...
I don`t wish to argue either way... but let me ask you this... going by your example... would one deliberately destroy say Alexandar`s Mausoleum? I don`t believe in Buddhism but I was most distressed by the destruction of Buddha statues... The point is that this is our heritage... the world`s heritage...
Ranjit,
The more important question would be whether South Asia needed Muhammad more or Arabia did...
I don`t wish to argue either way... but let me ask you this... going by your example... would one deliberately destroy say Alexandar`s Mausoleum? I don`t believe in Buddhism but I was most distressed by the destruction of Buddha statues... The point is that this is our heritage... the world`s heritage...
Ranjit,
The more important question would be whether South Asia needed Muhammad more or Arabia did...
#21 Posted by temporal on August 20, 2005 1:32:50 pm
Yasser #15 :
Is it not strange that the man who is so important to world`s history is to be left without a mark?
recall muhammed’s (saw) words from the sermon on the mount? ... (the last khutbaa)
personality cult was the last thing he wanted, promoted or advocated…his legacy is, and ought to be his egalitarian message...
besides
his last house…and his resting place both are secure within musjid e nabwi and no power mad or religion obsessed saudi dare alter it!
rgds
t
Is it not strange that the man who is so important to world`s history is to be left without a mark?
recall muhammed’s (saw) words from the sermon on the mount? ... (the last khutbaa)
personality cult was the last thing he wanted, promoted or advocated…his legacy is, and ought to be his egalitarian message...
besides
his last house…and his resting place both are secure within musjid e nabwi and no power mad or religion obsessed saudi dare alter it!
rgds
t
#20 Posted by wiseguyin on August 20, 2005 1:25:02 pm
Re: # 19
Ranjit,
The problem I find with your hypothetical situation is that you are looking at what he said,
rather then what he did. All of us have role models in religion and i guess there are certain
bare minimum qualities that most spiritual personalities in various religions have in common.
Having innocent blood on your hands is definitely not one of them.
OK here is another way to look at it. You must have come across standard tests like pick-the-odd-one-out. Here is another one for you:
Pick the odd one out:
1. Christ
2. Lord Ram
3. Gautam Budhdha
4. Mohammed
regards,
SN
PS: Would like to write more but sultry Chennai and the current workload are not letting me :(
Ranjit,
The problem I find with your hypothetical situation is that you are looking at what he said,
rather then what he did. All of us have role models in religion and i guess there are certain
bare minimum qualities that most spiritual personalities in various religions have in common.
Having innocent blood on your hands is definitely not one of them.
OK here is another way to look at it. You must have come across standard tests like pick-the-odd-one-out. Here is another one for you:
Pick the odd one out:
1. Christ
2. Lord Ram
3. Gautam Budhdha
4. Mohammed
regards,
SN
PS: Would like to write more but sultry Chennai and the current workload are not letting me :(
#19 Posted by Ranjit on August 20, 2005 1:10:07 pm
Re:wiseguyin#12
Imagine if Muhammad was born in India. Then Islam would have taken on the cultural ethos and tolerance of India and become perhaps an egalitarian version of Buddhism or Jainism. By falling in Arab hands, the religion picked up the tribal customs of Arabs and became the monstrosity that it is today.
A lot of scholars have argued that there is a disconnect between what Muhammad actually said from his revelations and what became the official Quran because of a time lag of several years before the Quran was put on paper. It would be no surprise if the Arabs put in hateful tribal practices and intolerance into the Quran when they actually wrote it up to further their imperial ambitions.
Imagine if Muhammad was born in India. Then Islam would have taken on the cultural ethos and tolerance of India and become perhaps an egalitarian version of Buddhism or Jainism. By falling in Arab hands, the religion picked up the tribal customs of Arabs and became the monstrosity that it is today.
A lot of scholars have argued that there is a disconnect between what Muhammad actually said from his revelations and what became the official Quran because of a time lag of several years before the Quran was put on paper. It would be no surprise if the Arabs put in hateful tribal practices and intolerance into the Quran when they actually wrote it up to further their imperial ambitions.
#18 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on August 20, 2005 1:09:17 pm
#15, {``Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is unquestionably one of the most influential personalities in history and if you ask Michael Hart- the most influential... in his life time he fit so many roles``}
He was almost as great as Quad-e-Azam Mahomed Ali Jinnah. :)
He was almost as great as Quad-e-Azam Mahomed Ali Jinnah. :)
#17 Posted by wiseguyin on August 20, 2005 1:08:50 pm
Re: # 15
Manto -
Influential is not always good. And important is also not always good. I bet even Hitler, Alexander and Ivan the terrible were quite important and ... ahem `influential`.
regards
Manto -
Influential is not always good. And important is also not always good. I bet even Hitler, Alexander and Ivan the terrible were quite important and ... ahem `influential`.
regards
#16 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on August 20, 2005 1:01:26 pm
Ranjit #10, {``Someone once wrote that Prophet Muhammad was the right man born in the wrong place. If he had come up with Islam in India or the west, it might have evolved to one of the best religions. Since it fell in the hands of the Arabs, the religion has morphed into a nightmare for everyone in this world. Now it seems even Muhammad himself is being treated like a kaffir with his house getting demolished.``}
Ranjit, my friend,
Beautfully stated - almost like a true Momin. As a Muslim, I agree with you and just admire the wonderful way you have stood up for the Holy Prophet (PBUH). I agree, had he been an Indian, Islam would have had a different face today. Sometimes, Allah does get his destinations mixed up when he is dispatching his prophets. :)
Ranjit, my friend,
Beautfully stated - almost like a true Momin. As a Muslim, I agree with you and just admire the wonderful way you have stood up for the Holy Prophet (PBUH). I agree, had he been an Indian, Islam would have had a different face today. Sometimes, Allah does get his destinations mixed up when he is dispatching his prophets. :)
#15 Posted by MantoLives on August 20, 2005 12:57:04 pm
Temporal/others,
Forget religion. Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is unquestionably one of the most influential personalities in history and if you ask Michael Hart- the most influential... in his life time he fit so many roles- from the rationalist refusenik to the founder of one of the world`s most important religions- the first statesman produced by Arabia- author of one of the world`s earliest constitutions/social contracts i.e. Mesaq-e-Medina- the person who literally forged a nation out of the tribes in the wilderness of Arabia and left behind a remarkable bill of human rights in the form of the last sermon.
Is it not strange that the man who is so important to world`s history is to be left without a mark? What next? Perhaps the Saudis will demolish the Kaaba- I am sure they would have, had it not been for the immense economic importance and the central power it gives the Saudis in the Muslim world.
-YLH
Forget religion. Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is unquestionably one of the most influential personalities in history and if you ask Michael Hart- the most influential... in his life time he fit so many roles- from the rationalist refusenik to the founder of one of the world`s most important religions- the first statesman produced by Arabia- author of one of the world`s earliest constitutions/social contracts i.e. Mesaq-e-Medina- the person who literally forged a nation out of the tribes in the wilderness of Arabia and left behind a remarkable bill of human rights in the form of the last sermon.
Is it not strange that the man who is so important to world`s history is to be left without a mark? What next? Perhaps the Saudis will demolish the Kaaba- I am sure they would have, had it not been for the immense economic importance and the central power it gives the Saudis in the Muslim world.
-YLH
#14 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on August 20, 2005 12:56:23 pm
In #11, I meant Farzan and not Farzna - just a typo, nothing sinister, mister. :)
Also, please understand that people in power act as if they need no permission from anyone, least of all the average Mo, Al, and Ayesh.
The Royal Saudi Family in Saudi Arabia is behaving just as arrogantly as the ``Royal`` Shah Family on Chowk. :)
There are different standards and different rules for Brahmins and the lower castes - the same is true in Islam and the same is true for Chowk. If you really care about egalitarianism, start with the Holy Cows of Chowk. :)
Why did they gag Omar?
Also, please understand that people in power act as if they need no permission from anyone, least of all the average Mo, Al, and Ayesh.
The Royal Saudi Family in Saudi Arabia is behaving just as arrogantly as the ``Royal`` Shah Family on Chowk. :)
There are different standards and different rules for Brahmins and the lower castes - the same is true in Islam and the same is true for Chowk. If you really care about egalitarianism, start with the Holy Cows of Chowk. :)
Why did they gag Omar?
#13 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on August 20, 2005 12:56:01 pm
In #11, I meant Farzan and not Farzna - just a typo, nothing sinister, mister. :)
Also, please understand that people in power act as if they need no permission from anyone, least of all the average Mo, Al, and Ayesh.
The Royal Saudi Family in Saudi Arabia is behaving just as arrogantly as the ``Royal`` Shah Family on Chowk. :)
There are different standards and different rules for Brahmins and the lower castes - the same is true in Islam and the same is true for Chowk. If you really care about egalitarianism, start with the Holy Cows of Chowk. :)
Why did the gag Omar?
Also, please understand that people in power act as if they need no permission from anyone, least of all the average Mo, Al, and Ayesh.
The Royal Saudi Family in Saudi Arabia is behaving just as arrogantly as the ``Royal`` Shah Family on Chowk. :)
There are different standards and different rules for Brahmins and the lower castes - the same is true in Islam and the same is true for Chowk. If you really care about egalitarianism, start with the Holy Cows of Chowk. :)
Why did the gag Omar?
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