Culture Cloning

335 Netizon:

` wonder if she is whining in front of her husband, which she should if the husband is forcing her to fast. `

I know of no husband who forces his wife to do this. Whining is the main point behind KC. One day of whining gets the wife one year of emotional blackmail.)

334 Zahra: `Can you help? Now, this is serious.`

No it is not.) Be careful Arjun_m. The ole battle axe is on a war path. Do not help her. The whole Hindudom is about to collapse otherwise. HAHAHAHAHA.

Oh so fasting is not cruel if you do it for an unproven, unseen or uncaring `God`. It is cruel only if it is done for your Pati Dev, the bread winner, the father of your children and your family. Wah!
It is not cruel at all if husband reciprocates with fasting for the wife. Why? Wah Wah!
We men lure our wives emotionally to do this. How? Wah, wah, wah!
Oh Paki men! learn something from your Kafir brothern! Learn how to lure your females emotionally to suffer inhuman practices.

Wait, you already know this and even more. Ah, the Multan Panchayat and Miss MM? OK guys, you win.

Mr. Zahra, if you are there yet, please do not force evil KC on poor Zahra.

Re: # 333

zahra:

``It was after talking to the women who had to fast for one day and they were whining like hell. ``

i wonder if she is whining in front of her husband, which she should if the husband is forcing her to fast.

if she were my wife, i would personally ensure that she eats well, atleast to get her off my back ;)

Re: # 332

Arjunm:

I know you quote articles from Dawn quite often. I was not able to go into archives to find the article by this lady Rabia on the comedy of marriage. I tried different approaches but somehow Dawn`s site does not allow to retrieve articles that easily. Can you help? Now, this is serious.

Re: # 324

In the month of Ramadan or Ramazan, men and women fast for their God and not for each other. They do not consider each other a form of God. You guys fast for the human beings thinking they are indispensable and immortals. You emotionally lure your women to fast for their men. How inhuman!!! The reason I considered KC cruel was not because of my own prejudice or overnight love or hatred for the said practice. It was after talking to the women who had to fast for one day and they were whining like hell. Why inflict so much torture for a mortal? Can we interview your wife to learn about her sentiments? Would you fast for the longevity of your wife? Or you would pray otherwise.

Unlike your kind, I do not need to take out my kirpan to raise awareness on an inhuman practice. I am happy with my words of wisdom :)

Dost Mittar:

[The practice is certainly indicative of the pati-dev mentality and reinforces the idea that a husband`s life is more important for wife than the other way round, but I wouldn`t call it cruel, there are really cruel practices, such as dowry burning and female infanticide in our culture that I would be more worried about.]

Do you believe in this jargon? Or you would fast for your wife to show that you are a progressive Canadian-Indian male of Pakistani ancestry? Would you recommend the said practice to your son-in-laws provided they are punjabi hindus? I am sure you would wish otherwise :)

#330 by einsteinwallah on November 25, 2005 1:40pm PT


But the character which stands for `jha` in Hindi is actually spoken by speakers of Marathi as `za`.


Yup...Zavadya v/s Jhavadya

Re: # 328

kaal:

``Give me a husband worshipper any day (and night).``

maybe your wife has not heard this song:

zamana to hai naukar biwi ka ..... ;)

My mother tongue is neither Marathi nor Hindi (it is Gujarati), so what I write below may be in error.

Both Marathi and Hindi are written in Devnagari script. But the character which stands for `jha` in Hindi is actually spoken by speakers of Marathi as `za`. So for example a Marathi speaker would read `jharnaa` as `zarnaa`.

Gujarati language has same script as Marathi except for the way it is written. This is why entire text of any Marathi writing can be written in Gujarati script by mechanically replacing character for character. (Some ligatures look closer to the Hindi writing style than Marathi. For example, -rya- in `aarya` will be written differently in Marathi and Hindi, with Gujarati writing being closer to Hindi)

We Gujaratis who do not know that Hindi `jha` is not `za` pronounce words with `jh` with sound `z`. Same is true about Marathis. It was only in university that I met a north Indian who had lived in Gujarat during his childhood who informed me of my error. This north Indian was son of a Railway worker who was posted in Gujarat for sometime. So his dad had to teach him (and possibly his Hindi teacher) the correct pronunciation of -jha-.

Marathi and Gujarati has a character which is missing in Hindi. It is transliterated for Tamil and Malayalam languages as -zh-. For example, Anbazhagan is a name in Malayalam. (Please here also somebody please correct me if I am wrong). Probably Tamil has several varieties of -zh-. In fact Tamil is transliteration of word Tamizh. It is mis-transliterated probably because Hindi does not have -zh-. Most words with -zh- in Gujarati also exist in Hindi but there they are written with -l- in place where -zh- is there in Gujarati word. For example, `baazhak` means child and in Hindi it is written as `baalak`. Another example is: `kazhash` which means `lota` is written in Hindi as kalash (a Lata sung song is: jyoti kalash chhalake...).

In drawing genelogical tree of languages existence of sound is more surer test than words. Words can be imported but sounds and speaking styles cannot be. For example, if ancient Hindi did not have baalak then it might have been imported from south (say from Marathi or any of south Indian languages) or west (Gujarati or some African/Arabic source). Once we find baazhak in in ancient Gujarati and baalak in modern Hindi we cannot argue that baalak in Hindi is imported from Gujarati. That is because written record is fragmentary. We may think since no ancient record of Hindi exists showing usage of baalak that it is an import. But another possibility is missing record. It may be other way round. That baalak existed in Hindi and then migrated to Gujarat or Maharashtra where locals started pronouncing it as baazhak. Like in Marathi Hospital is written as ispitazha (am I wrong? please correct me if I am)

I think so reality is that in absence of any real insurmountable boundary words can flow both ways. We may argue that patronage of ruling class is important but there is a possibility that rulers want to strengthen local tongues because they want support of ruled rather than impose ruler`s language on ruled and alienate them.

DM #323:

`The sinhala people left Bihar-Bengal area when it was still Buddhist and Pali was the spoken language of the people. Being an island, the language was probably more insulated from outside influences than the languages on the subcontinent.`

That explains quite a bit of mystery. Before Vividh Bahrti days, Radio Ceylon was a popular radio station in Punjab. At their sign off, they would play their national anthem, which was chock full of Sanskrit. It also explains the current struggle between Dravidians and Sinhalese. Thanks for the info.

On a separate note, the Romany (of gypsies) and Maldivian is interesting. Quite a few gypsies ended up in the Holocaust death camps. Similarly how Blauchi and Kurdish are similar is interesting too.

Thanks again Ajeya, You need to compile this for a separate FP article, rather than let it lie under Shaista`s complaint.

Netizen

``when i get married, if needed, i will definitely fast for my wife regardless of what she thinks of KC.``

Don`t be ridiculous. It is much better being a confirmed MCP. Nobody in his sane mind would give up an advantage without being forced into it.

Give me a husband worshipper any day (and night).

Re: # 326

``the `pati-dev` ideology (and the whole system of practices that went with it) was very harmful for Hindu women.``


wasn`t there a song something like this:

bhala hai bura hai
jaisa bhi hai
mera pati mera devta hai....

mannyd

Quit pulling my legs, young man! :)

---

Zahraj

Cruel or not, the `pati-dev` ideology (and the whole system of practices that went with it) was very harmful for Hindu women. Like all other harmful ideologies, it too was fully supported by vast majorities of its own victims.

Re: # 321

even though i come from a north indian family, i never noticed women folks in my family practising that. may be i am just to oblivious to my surroundings.

i never knew that KC was a cruel practice. next time i speak to my mom/sister, i will ask her. i never saw it enforced on anyone even though i really don`t care about it. i think if people want to follow it they should but with full stomach :)

regarding me, when i get married, if needed, i will definitely fast for my wife regardless of what she thinks of KC.

my mom fasts 2 days/week. these fastings are not that strict though. she does have water and fruits during the day. and my father fasts once/week. i too used to fast once/week when i was a believer.

infact my sister used to fast too, once/week. after marriage her husband and his family persuaded her to give it up for health reasons.


regarding the black tents, thats my observation in india. maybe pakis are far ahead of indian muslims.

Here comes the female Maula Jat swinging her kulharee.
`Believe me, if you start showing these examples and cultural chaNge then it will have a positive and long term impact on your neighbors as well as your own people.`
Our own people are happy doing what they have been doing.
If we change it will have a positive and long term impact on Pakistan?
Heck that is the best argument I ever heard for not changing.
If fasting is cruel, can you do away with your cruelty duirng Ramzan, Ramdan or Ram Dhan, whatever you call it?

`Yes dear, I am telling this Paki fighter to lay off Karua Chauth. No, no, you do not need to unsheath your Kirpan dear, not yet.`..LOL

zahraj:

The practice of karva chauth is there in Rajasthan and may be some other parts but it is not there in Bengal or South India. But with its glamourisation by Bollywood, I wont be surprised if it is spreading to other parts of the country.

The practice is certainly indicative of the pati-dev mentality and reinforces the idea that a husband`s life is more important for wife than the other way round, but I wouldn`t call it cruel, there are really cruel practices, such as dowry burning and female infanticide in our culture that I would be more worried about.

And Hindus being hindus, there is hardly anything static or sacred. These days, ``some good men`` have started keeping fast on that day and many unmarried girls are doing it too. It`s just become a fashion thingy.

mannyd:
It is not surprising at all that sinhala should be closer to sanskrit than other Indian languages, although Bengali also seems to me to be closer than North Indian languges. The sinhala people left Bihar-Bengal area when it was still Buddhist and Pali was the spoken language of the people. Being an island, the language was probably more insulated from outside influences than the languages on the subcontinent.

#315 Anil: You are right about Punjabi and Khari boli andd Tahmed was wrong. Thank you for setting him straight. My references to your examples were slightly on a jocular tone. No offense.

Kaal Sahib: You are absolutely right about showing respect to the elders. Anil is one of our elders. By the way I am older than Anil and may present my rain check in future as needed. All you young Turks are on notice...LOL..HAHAHAHAHHA