Behind the Iron Purdah

Re: # 104
Salim
I think you’re painting a very rosy picture of turkey, I was there 2years ago in Bodrum holiday resort, I heard many brit girls complaining about Turkish men pestering for date and they wouldn’t take no for an answer. I believe there is still a lot of poverty inland and even honour killings.
BTW brits and germans are moving there big time, I even met a brit paki who’s opened a restaurant there.

mohar,

``And lying and cheating is NOT as bad as you think - it`s a necessary survival tool in the real world``

......... you prove my point - that typifies the desi mindset .......we were brought up to think that since everyone is doing it we have to in order to survive ........ of course kids do lie, but here when they do it they are very well aware that they are doing something wrong and are usually very bad at it ......... my twelve year old will not let me help her with her homework because ``it is cheating`` and she refuses to share her work with her friends because ``it is not fair``............ the word ``fair`` was not in our vocabulary ........... come to think of it, i cannot think of the urdu equivalent - can you ?

Re: # 107 hamidm
//...our kids have a much better value system than we ever had ....... for example, they don`t lie and cheat ..//

Yeah - that`s what you think :) Every kid lies and cheats - that`s the benefit of being a kid. ..... .... And lying and cheating is NOT as bad as you think - it`s a necessary survival tool in the real world.

Re: # 85
Raw_Dust, I agree with hamzaad #6.The whole concept of subjugation of women hinges on religious role playing. And wrt miriams comment. that the concept of mans world comes from organized religion, I would think it is easy to see that it is the other way round.
Having said that,debunking those roles will lead us to reconsider the sanctity of our anthropological and social contracts like marriage and family. giving rise to unwed mothers etc(Of course there would be unwed fathers too, which aint the same thing. An interesting paper on an interesting book- Roxana by Daniel Defoe- ``Roxana`s Amazonian threat to the ideology of marriage`` discusses this in detail.
OTOH, the roles are designed in such a way that man controls the interaction of the family unit with the world, by providing for it. So it is logical that in religious societies one will hear significantly more hue and cry when a woman steps out of her role than when a man steps out of his.Modesty of women and hijab will be an infinitely greater issue than butt crack gazing or bottom pinching men.

hamid:

missed that post...yes...

a friend is a gp...she says the hijabi traffic for pills and abortion (yes, astaghfirollah!) through her clinic has grown exponentially since zina ul haq went up in smoke

Re: # 116

t,

.... i agree - see my post below on the dating habits of hijabis ........ as one close friend`s daughter, frustrated by her parent`s constant badgering about getting married, said, `` what do you want me to do ? ... put on a hijab (again) and join the msa so that i can find a husband like all those other girls ?`` ......... astagfirullah !

samir:
#80

how to re-educate and re-socialize the pak. man?

it begins in the home. a fundamental change in how pakistani men are raised. mothers have a greater influence on a young child. so, change the way we educate our women who will be future mothers. teach pakistani women to respect and value themselves as human beings, not just as a man’s wife/mother/daughter/sister or property. and in turn, their children will be educated and socialized according to those values.

i realize the practical aspects of this are largely nightmarish but one has to begin somewhere.

m

hamidm mian:

throw those old fashioned ideas outta window

being mindsful i will only quote my son`s experiences...hijabis do have more fun...(insert choice icons here)...am amused and perturbed to inquire any further...maybe it is the TO air...rgds


miriam:

i understand:)...just that someone else also fired salvos at her for that

lve

t

There is at least one hijabi woman who is as normal, as (mention all the wonderful human qualities here), and much much more than any other woman.

But we are speaking of a social phenomenon, not of individual people caught up in it.

And there ARE undeniable tangible rewards to going along with men`s rules.

miriam,

......... not that i want to defend rabia - god forbid ! - but there is a positive side to wearing the hijab ........ it does give these women a chance to meet like minded men and hijabi women do have an easier time landing husbands (as in fish) even though they might turn out not to be ``keepers``............. regardless of the islamic injunctions against the inter mingling of sexes and pre-marital dating, hijabi women have no problem with it - the hijab sanctifies ``immoral`` behaviour .......... go figure !

t,
#112

i’m all for cutting her slack and being supportive of any decision she makes, as long as it’s truly her own. rabia seems like a bright and assertive woman. i just hope for her sake she understands clearly the reason(s) she wore a hijab. at first, i thought this was a gesture of modesty but i just picked up on the “s” word :).

m

106 was directed at hamidm

miriam :)

cut her some slack or someting like that

rabia:
#87

i missed this somehow in my earlier reading of your post. but how exactly is wearing a hijab making you progress in your spirituality? isn’t the spiritual journey an internal one? i’m sure there are enough people here who will jump in to correct me if i’m mistaken.

m

Re: # 105

...exactly ........ many american muslim kids are exposed to this virus at a very early age and their parents continue to manipulate them through their formative years .......... they end up either with body piercings and high on drugs, or put on that hijab and go about preaching the virtues of islam ......... in both cases they are schizophrenic and lost.......

After getting to know mullahs and their ways I can say that I pray they never get into power in Pakistan, either now or in the future. The aim of the scholars, the genuine ones, is for moral and spiritual guidance to individuals.

kaal ji:
#105

i agree with you. by the very fact that the key player here is organized religion, there are bound to be residues of groupthink. but these are things one has to realize themselves. it cannot come from the outside.

m