Behind the Iron Purdah

how do you see a connection between ``honor killings, forced marriages, and domestic violence`` and islam??

arent these becuse we are a declined third world country? and whose fault is that? islam which never took part in this country or the capitalist west, whose feet our rulers have licked tirelessly for the past 60 years ????

re: Mushy`s remark about Paki women getting raped for money
I thought Paki women would want to known what their dictator thinks of them.
They say: a picture speaks a thousand words. Here are some:
http://www.sulekha.com/news/nhc.aspx?cid=434360
http://www.sulekha.com/news/nhc.aspx?cid=434358
Sridhar

#262 by hamidm2

[now if you can cure romair i will accept you as my guru ......]

I remember an old dialog from Amitabh Bachchan`s movie Laawaris and I think it applies just perfectly to Romair. Excuse the Hindi spellings.

``Hum uss kuttay ki dum hain jo baarah saal nali mein rahein, nali tedhi ho gayi, magar hum seedhe nahin huen``.

Re: # 254

shankar,

........ thanks for the your professional opinion - i agree with most of it .......... you are a wise man indeed .......... now if you can cure romair i will accept you as my guru ......

....... rgds and my fish thank you

Re: # 254

Shankar: I understand that Hamidm has his own eccentricities but what did he do now to deserve a succinct response like this ?

Just for your kind information, we are in 2005.

Please wake up.

Polite Wishes.

Bina,
Great stuff! Written with such incisive honesty and understanding, not to mention keen observation of negative nuances in even the most mundane seeming situations in daily life which are the result of deeply ingrained injustice against women. You make me glad that I am a Chowk member; more power to your pen, Bina, you keep going, girl!!

Re: # 255

That is the tragedy! Women want equal rights with humans but don`t behave like civilised human beings. They can`t do so due to their contradictory mindset; their desire to be liked and loved by the opposite sex and also to make a show off their `pak bazi` and `ismat naaki`.
This has made the Hijab women mentally abnormal in a Talibani culture, be it India or Pakistan. I saw even a woman of about 80 objecting to a young boy sitting with her in a bus in the Pak land.

Re: # 253

It would not have been so bad on earth of course but for Adam having failed to call Hawa as sister or beti as actually she was having been born out of his rib as the story goes. And now:

Yoon nah tha mein ne faqat chaha thayoon ho jaae
Aur bhi dukh hein zamaane mein mohabbat ke siva

Thanks and regards.

Re: # 256

rotfl

see what i mean?

#254 SSS (Shrunk shrink Shankar)

Dear S3,

You need to stop playing tweedle-dee versus tweedle-dum with Hamidm!

This routine is OLD! He makes an outrageous statement – and YOU (Lord almighty!) show up as the “reasonable” counterpoint. I believe you should stick to fish (not physically, though).

If I may suggest to you, a supposed shrink, your interactions over the years reveal a deeply disturbed persona – someone who came to this chowk world wearing a thin veneer of civility and tried to maintain it for a while – until the sands of time kept grating and exposing more and more of the inner core – till it all came out – the gook, the bad, and the ugly!

Your wholesale generalization and trashing of a people (Biharis, in this case) is beyond comparison. It won’t surprise me if as a child you were traumatized by your Bihari milkman – or perhaps a Bihari school bully – at the head of a long line of bullies taking their respective turns at you. Are you sure that in your heart YOU are not a Bihari? Perhaps just a wanna-be?

Also, the way you keep harping on this “Muslim” theme (like my dear Hamidm does), may I remind you – THERE IS NO UMMAH – it’s all fictitious! These are people like you and me – perhaps some of their forefathers were yours, too!

[Men ....``in general`` are told (& bought up) to be the ``stronger sex``...its true in most cultures... Ofcourse, some cultures are more male-dominated than others (thats true of hindus too)...warriors, leaders, generals, statesmen, artists, poets are predominantly men.]
Such views are archaic and most reasonable thinkers have thrown them out of the window.

[Women are told (& bought up) that their first & foremost duty is to procreate...& raise their fertilised ova....to ``nest``...Its a ``hang-up`` that women deal with all the time.. ]
Obviously, a lot of wishful thinking! May I remind you that it takes TWO to procreate – a fact that may not have dawned upon your shrunk ness!

[One of the reasons my female patients, who have careers, are totally ``stressed out``....is because ….]
What a silly hypothesis! Of course your patients would be stressed out – they are YOUR patients, aren’t they? (Female or otherwise!)

[their ``conciense`` feels that somehow they arent doing their sociological duty (as it were) for putting their careers over children...they hate to admit it....its OTHER women that make them feel guilty...& it PISS*S them off...(kinda like Bina`s example...when the woman who was conservatively dressed...made the ``secular`` or ``modern`` muslim woman feel guilty.) ]
That’s great – spread the “guilt” brush widely – and keep those 50-minute checks rolling in! I have seen some poppycock on this site – but this takes the cake!

[..I see it in my wife too...``am I a good mother?`` is a question very frequently asked by career women...esp when they try and discipline kids!:) ]
And the reason you will NEVER tell her this crap in person is that you will get “disciplined” yourself faster than lightning!

[Yes...EDUCATION..is the KEY...it is EDUCATION that makes humans QUESTION & DEFY anachronistic attitudes of a culture ...or a nation...or a religion...]
But it does not always work – and YOU – my dear, are the namoona!

[If youre culture represses sex...you have very very wieeeerrrrd ideas about it...kinda like what every schoolboy (in Bombay..atleast) learns...ahem... ``one drop of semen =32 drops of blood``...or ``if a guy masterbates, he gets zits...or worse yet, a hernia``!!
If schoolboys in liberal Bombay (who interact with girls all the time...even way back in the 70s) learn that kinda crap....I wonder aloud what schoolboys in Waziristan or Gilgit or Jeddah learn about such...er...``blasphemous`` issues?!...the more repressed you are... the more confused (& perverted) you get....worse than that.... I wonder what GIRLS are told about such things in conservative societies?!]
I think I am finally getting a clear idea of why people from Bombay are considered such hopeless cases by so many!

[One of my patients was a very bright ``secular`` Bangladeshi college student..born & raised in a strict, conservative Islamic upbringing...I was extremely surprised that her parents had never/ever discussed sex with her...like it was some kind of sinful taboo...even to talk about it!]
Dear doc, that trend is not confined to Bangladesh – if you wake up a little and look outside your city cocoon, it holds true of most of rural India too. Also, sexuality and secularity are different animals – one rules your member while the other your mind (although in some cases – like yours – there may be clear confusion regarding the roles of the two).

[Freud`s daughter ..Anna Freud... in her seminal thesis ``Ego & the mechanisms of Defense``...said that when humans feel angry ...they ESP men) ``act-out`` their anger]
May I remind you that Freud died centuries ago. You shrinks have been treating him like your own “Allah-tala” for every little thing. Come up with some new stuff, would you?

The other day on returning to India from Europe, I landed at Mumbai. We have these minibuses plying from Mumbai airport to Pune. I purchased a ticket for a ride to Pune. When I entered the bus, I found all window seats taken, so there was nothing to do but share a seat. I reached for a seat and was about to sit down, when the person sitting on the seat by the window stopped me from sitting, pointed to another seat and said ``why dont you sit there? there is a man sitting there``. The person was a woman wearing a hijab but not covering her face. I was shocked speechless, for this sort of thing just does not happen in India. The next available seat had another girl sitting by the window who readily made room for me. The hijab wearing so-and so had probably come fresh from Saudi Arabia or Pakistan after indoctrination. The conclusion is , many people visiting these countries are so brainwashed that they would like spread the retrograde thinking even to their motherland if they can help it, so if these things happen in Pakistan, Talibanisation of that society is a question of not ``if`` but ``when``

Re: # 238

Hamid_m,

{{....... of course this is just a layman`s opinion ........ maybe shankar can give us the real scoop from a professional viewpoint ........}}

Are you quite sure you want a ``rational`` conversation from a Bihari?...he ``collects`` grudges!:))


{{- the majority of muslim men - and that includes unwashed abdul, who shares his tent with his camel or goat - suffer from an impotent rage ........ they have been bested by other men in every field of human endeavor - science, industry, technology, sports and sex}}

I cant tell you specifically about ``muslim men in Pakistan`` or in the ``ummah``...you know better than I do, cos you grew up in that microcosm.

Men ....``in general`` are told (& bought up) to be the ``stronger sex``...its true in most cultures... Ofcourse, some cultures are more male-dominated than others (thats true of hindus too)...warriors, leaders, generals, statesmen, artists, poets are predominantly men.

OTOH, women encounter a glass ceiling...its an amalgam of national..cultural..religious...& sociological attitudes of their microcosm. Women are told (& bought up) that their first & foremost duty is to procreate...& raise their fertilised ova....to ``nest``...Its a ``hang-up`` that women deal with all the time..

One of the reasons my female patients, who have careers, are totally ``stressed out``....is because their ``conciense`` feels that somehow they arent doing their sociological duty (as it were) for putting their careers over children...they hate to admit it....its OTHER women that make them feel guilty...& it PISS*S them off...(kinda like Bina`s example...when the woman who was conservatively dressed...made the ``secular`` or ``modern`` muslim woman feel guilty.)

..I see it in my wife too...``am I a good mother?`` is a question very frequently asked by career women...esp when they try and discipline kids!:)

I realise sweeping generalisations are just that ...a little too ``sweeping``...but a large part of a man`s ``self-esteem`` is based on what he DOES (ie...do I bring home ``most of`` the bacon? ...am I a productive human being?)....a large part of a woman`s ``self-esteem`` comes from how she LOOKS..(70 yr old ladies go to hairdressers every week...do you see a 70 yr old man do that?)....whether she is a good ``mistress`` of the household or not?...

Ofcourse..my personal/professional impression is based upon ``peering into human minds``, since 82...first in NY & then in MI...in the AMERICAN microcosm...

Yes...EDUCATION..is the KEY...it is EDUCATION that makes humans QUESTION & DEFY anachronistic attitudes of a culture ...or a nation...or a religion...

if you dont educate women as assiduously as you educate men...you WILL subdugate them (no matter how ``arrogantly`` & ``piously`` ones says..we PROTECT our women...in our ``perfect`` culture)...thats why western feminists despise cultures like Saudi Arabia...& educated muslim women in Pakistan are more vociferous about the crap that goes on in the name of ``Islaaaam!`` & ``Allah``...

Alas, IMHO, Islam has been hijacked by a bunch of blasphemers who have converted ``Allah`` into ``Shaitaan`` in the eyes of the non-Islamic world...
They have used words/phrases like ``the Holy Prophet``, ``Jihad``, ``Islaam`` to justify their brutality...

These people want a billion muslims to step off the train & GO BACK to a ``perfect`` time...where there was/is ``perfect`` laws...into the frikkin` 6 th century...

Why do you think a Southern Plantation owner not want to educate slaves?...cos an educated human is more AWARE of the bs hypocrisy thats going around him/her....& is more likely to ``rebel``...

Are ``conservative`` societies (read misogynistic) better?!..you be the judge...IMHO any culture that ``regresses`` back to an anachronistic era.... is in a deep pile of do-do...no matter how much you couch it as being ``pious`` or ``holy`` or ``Islamic``...

((Now...just because I`m critical of ``muslims`` (NOT Islam)...those of you who are purple in the face...better not tell me...but..but..what about us evil hindooos?...the issue here is about muslims...not hindus...if you want to know our faults, let me kindly refer you to Her Highness FV`s numerous articles..))


{{......... yes, sex ...... inspite of being allowed the luxury of having multiple women, muslim men, because of their misogynistic upbringing, cannot keep their women happy - i base my conclusion on the scientific observation that muslim women rarely smile and the fact that muhammad ata did not want women tattling at his funeral ..........}}

If youre culture represses sex...you have very very wieeeerrrrd ideas about it...kinda like what every schoolboy (in Bombay..atleast) learns...ahem... ``one drop of semen =32 drops of blood``...or ``if a guy masterbates, he gets zits...or worse yet, a hernia``!!

If schoolboys in liberal Bombay (who interact with girls all the time...even way back in the 70s) learn that kinda crap....I wonder aloud what schoolboys in Waziristan or Gilgit or Jeddah learn about such...er...``blasphemous`` issues?!...the more repressed you are... the more confused (& perverted) you get....worse than that.... I wonder what GIRLS are told about such things in conservative societies?!

One of my patients was a very bright ``secular`` Bangladeshi college student..born & raised in a strict, conservative Islamic upbringing...I was extremely surprised that her parents had never/ever discussed sex with her...like it was some kind of sinful taboo...even to talk about it!

{{ but women are a little bit more tricky, specially if they get a little education, discover foreplay and demand the right to vote ..........this drives the poor man nuts ......... hence the impotent rage as characterized by our dear friend ntsyed .............. }}

Yup! I agree...it makes men feel more insecure...& more ``impotent``...Freud`s daughter ..Anna Freud... in her seminal thesis ``Ego & the mechanisms of Defense``...said that when humans feel angry ...they ESP men) ``act-out`` their anger

---

violence or terrorism...

...if the dont ``act-out``...

the more ``civil-ised`` ones will use...
DENIAL...``it CANT be the Al-Qeeda that caused 911....its an Israeli conspiracy``..
RATIONALISATION...its the fault of the West, Israelis & Hindus that my cohorts are acting the way they are...
INTELLECTUALISATION...``so & so scholar Ibn Ibn Whateveri`` said so & so ..so jihad is justified...or...since its in a frikkin ``hadith`` (whatever THAT means)...or...if someting/something is said in the Koran...then it must be holy!

etc etc

Frau Anna Freud was very polite when she refered to the above as ``IMMATURE`` defense mechanisms...
thats what happens if a society starts regressing...they circle their wagons...& act like ``victims`` & blame everybody else for their problems...

Islam is a great religion...the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) was one of the greatest men to walk upon the face of this earth...
Islam`s biggest BADNASEEB was her disciples turned out to be muslims...esp muslim MEN...

Who will save Rapunzel from her tower?!:(

Khuda Hafiz

Re: # 252

teshah sahib,

..... you don`t have much use for women, do you ?.......... still mad at them for getting us thrown out of eden ? .....let bygones be bygones - life is not too bad on earth either .......

Re: # 223

``Equal rights?``

But what about `Naan Nufqah` which the women are using as a handle to get their husbands sent to jail through corrupt family courts of Pakistan? Why the man should be held responsible for supporting his wife even when she becomes his worst
enemy? Is it not worse than prostitution, in fact, virtual rape of the man?

#250, Gujju,
Thanks, yaar. Again, I am eternally indebted to you for exposing this hypocrite. I really appreciate your honesty in putting him in in his place.
He pontificates so much about profanity and abuse, yet is AWOL when it comes to accountability, honesty, truthfulness, and fairness.
Now you understand why we have Mulla problems in Pakistan? These self-sanctimonious padres of morality and one-sided critique are everywhere.
Thanks,
Salim

Salim...I just read yours and Godot`s merciless massacre of temporal in another thread - was hilarious as hell :()

#248, Gujju, you may not realize it, but you are responsible for the downfall of this ``brahmin`` of Chowk from his high horse. :)
Salim

Hah....any person fretting and fuming so much over the supposed credibility of an anonymous internet poster is :

A. ) A Loser
B. ) A Fool
C. ) Unemployed
D. ) All of the above....

Mr. Temporal,
Did you attend University of Colorado in Fort Collins, Colorado or Colorado State University in Boulder, Colorado?
This question is very relevant to your credibility. :)

Next time, before you accuse others, check out your facts.
Also, next time, before you post erroneous nonsense on FP, please check out your facts.

Your credibility is nosediving fast. :)

Salim

Mr. Temporal,
I must respond to you here, because on UP my responses are receiving the usual one-sided censorship treatment.

You stated about me; {``from exchanging passwrods to nicks, to hallucinating about ‘experimenting’ with us here.. being married…being a professor or teacher of some sort…indulging in experimenting with his group of friends…claiming to be a pakistani…married….managing a whore house…or was it some other joint…his hallucinations and delusions and blatant lies are sufficient for anyone to join me in saying he has no credibility``}

For a man well-advanced in years, you are expressing an unnaturally excessive interest in me, my ethnic origins, my nationality, my marital status, my educational background, my prior occupation,, and truthfulness. Please act according to your age and your gender. There are cyber trangressions that are considered much worse than profane rebuttals.

For someone who doesn`t check his facts (accusing others of actions they did not commit as confirmed by volunatry confessions of Good Samaritans, stating erroneous locations of well-known educational institutions in a Front Page article for crying out loud!), you are the last person to pontificate about CREDIBILITY.

Hopefully old age and senility will soon do you and us a huge favor. :)

Salim

#243, {``what is UP and why are people going there ? ``}

Hamindm Sahib, Do Number Walley,

UP stands for many things:
Utter Pradish - nothing to do will mooli or any other subji
United Provinces - before they created Uttar Anchal. :)
Upper Peninsula - the part of Michigan normally known as Uppa US. :)
Unplugged - a contolled environment on Chowk, where serious debate about who is who, nicwise, latest advances in cosmetics, constant whining about unemployment, low-paying jobs in caffeine merchandising, concern over the manhood of certain opponents, what to do about uncontrolled flatulence, and jealousy over other interactors` ilogs are the burning issues of the day. Debates are won by favorites by intercession with their friends on Chowk Staff. Profanity is abundant and tolerated for the ``brahmins of Chowk.`` Such is the state of affair of this site, which could be renamed as UP - Uniquely Paki. :)
Salim

#242, DM Sahib,
Thanks for clarifying that. I learned something. :)
Salim

what is UP and why are people going there ? ....... am i missing something ? ........ it sounds like some kind of an s&m site visited by people who are not satisfied by the abuse they get on the fp ......... is that where romair is hiding ?

manu404#240:

````Pooch kiye`` just doesn`t sound very Urduesque``

``PoochA kiye`` was commonly used in urdu poetry. It just means ``asked``.

Mr. Temporal,
I know that my response to your unprovoked assault on UP will be erased. So I must ensure that you have a chance to read it.

After having been caught red-handed on FP in your attempt to falsely accuse me of things that I did not do, you are now resorting to slander in this forum. Sir, you are the last person to talk about credibility - Mr. Ranger (young Gujju) taught you a well-deserved lesson about the necessity to be truthful.

You said: {``but i will say categorically this that every single time it happend on chowk the said multi nick has been guilty of instigating and starting it off...``}

Again, in your usually exaggerated manner, you said: {``every single time!`` }

There you go again. You will never learn will you? :)
Do you wish to be proven wrong again?

Again, you spoke with forked tongue: {``yet he turns back and foul mouths me and family…no credibility ``}
Again, you are lying. Please don`t confuse me with others. :) There are several people who foul mouth your family - I am not one of them. [-X

The reason for multiple nics is very clear. Your friends at Chowk see fit to erase messages, delete threads, filter my posts, even when the content is perfectly polite and rational. This selective censorship encourages resorting to multiple nics and evasive action. No doubt this message will be erased, while your one-sided, biased, and opinionated commentary will stay intact. Is it any wonder that some young people find you hypocritical and totally untustworthy? :)
Salim

#239, {``hum se bhi sub poocha kiye``}

``Pooch kiye`` just doesn`t sound very Urduesque.
Perhaps Poochtey or Pooch rahey. :)
Salim

Re: # 236
hmmmmm....

hum bhi wahan maujood thay, hum se bhi sub poocha kiye
hum chup rahay, hum haNs diye manzoor tha purdah tera

beejay,

``Hamidm, you definitely go too far when you extend your gross and sweeping generalizations to “all” Muslims `` .......

........ no, beejay, i am serious - the majority of muslim men - and that includes unwashed abdul, who shares his tent with his camel or goat - suffer from an impotent rage ........ they have been bested by other men in every field of human endeavor - science, industry, technology, sports and sex ......... yes, sex ...... inspite of being allowed the luxury of having multiple women, muslim men, because of their misogynistic upbringing, cannot keep their women happy - i base my conclusion on the scientific observation that muslim women rarely smile and the fact that muhammad ata did not want women tattling at his funeral ..........

....... the only things that a good momin has control over are his women and camels ........ the camel, he can hobble with that silly thing he wears on his head, but women are a little bit more tricky, specially if they get a little education, discover foreplay and demand the right to vote ..........this drives the poor man nuts ......... hence the impotent rage as characterized by our dear friend ntsyed ..............

....... of course this is just a layman`s opinion ........ maybe shankar can give us the real scoop from a professional viewpoint ........

#217 by teshah on August 28, 2005 7:06pm PT


What a subjct; Woman versus Man! As the story goes, Adam got bored in heaven and cried for a companion. Got gifted him with the woman.


That`s not how it went down....Adam got bored so god let his watch His TV...Adam kept hogging the remote so god created Eve to get back at Adam...

Hence the biblical quote: Take that beeyatch....Over the years it`s been corrupted to ``take that, beeyatch``...the comma kinda changes the tone....

Shankar Sahib,

``...& why do you thing I exist?!...ya dope ya!..``

Oye, doktor sahb, I dont do dope-that is a pathani or bhangi type behavior. I am just a brotha trying to survive, dekh? Also, this shrinkage is not good for my family motis, if you are seeing my point. And I have it from a very pukka source that this shrinkage is a conspiracy against the muslim world to cause havoc in the muslim family. I know very well that you cant have the apple and the apple pie. Fatso Bibi tried to get me to submit to this gora touchy feely ``rap`` business...I said, abey fatso, I am a BROWN man, not a kaaka...I dont play basketball and I dont know how to rap! Then she said it was about ``dialoguing``...such gora words for talking! Then she said maybe we see a couples counsellor! I know where this donkey cart is heading, hain!

Chowk Staff,
All the evidence regarding abusive language, sexual harassment of young males by a middle-aged ``female`` pedophile, and rampant profanity with sexual innuendos is being compiled against this notoriously abusive interactor. All this will come in handy during an eventual litigation.
Thanks,
Salim

Re: # 232

Correction: ``hysterical and hypocritical rodent Salim``

Chowk Staff,
The notoriously profane interactor has said the same obscenities in BOTH posts #230 and #231. She is guilty of repeatedly profane behavior.
Please be fair.
Thanks,
Salim

Chowk Staff,
Please pay attention to your own policies. I would not have interfered had it not been for the abusive language used against me by this notorious interactor in her post #231 below.
Please note the use of objectionable language here. It certainly smacks of sexual perversion, harassment, and pure profanity.

{``NyetBeeyatch, your citing sodomy jokes just dont make it so..``}.
{``...and that hysterical rodent Salim on the concept....``}
{``women and bears-which of course is gay talk for a burly and manly homosexual``}
{``Secondly, you dont KNOW me, beeyatch.``}
{``But nice extended farting-must have been some nihari dawaat you attended last night.``}

You have censored, warned, and banned other interactors for saying far less.
If you have noticed, I have refrained from responding to profanity with more profanity. Please acknowledge this positive approach.
Thanks,
Salim

NyetSahib,

Yet another tangential post attempting damage control? NyetBeeyatch, your citing sodomy jokes just dont make it so...perhaps Shankarji can work with you and that hysterical rodent Salim on the concept....it seems endemic to the insecure males species- their wishing makes something so...In other works NyetSahib, your repressed desires of being overcome sexually (need I point out your ``dominatrix fantasy`` in a previous and pervious post) by women and bears-which of course is gay talk for a burly and manly homosexual-is working against you BIG TIME.

Secondly, you dont KNOW me, beeyatch. What I am thinking about viz Islam is none of your business. Quite frankly, you dont seem to have the intelligence to understand what I am developing. But nice extended farting-must have been some nihari dawaat you attended last night.

Thirdly, NO ONE has forgotten that intellectual quagmire you yourself stepped into after lifting the hem of that silk robe. LABOR, WOMEN and MUSLIM countries. You had NO ANSWER. Now, kindly, stop wasting my time.

NyetSahib,

Yet another tangential post attempting damage control? NyetBeeyatch, your citing sodomy jokes just dont make it so...perhaps Shankarji can work with you and that hysterical rodent Salim on the concept....it seems endemic to the insecure males species- their wishing makes something so...In other works NyetSahib, your repressed desires of being overcome sexually (need I point out your ``dominatrix fantasy`` in a previous and pervious post) by women and bears-which of course is gay talk for a burly and manly homosexual-is working against you BIG TIME.

Secondly, you dont KNOW me, beeyatch. What I am thinking about viz Islam is none of your business. Quite frankly, you dont seem to have the intelligence to understand what I am developing. But nice extended farting-must have been some nihari dawaat you attended last night.

Thirdly, NO ONE has forgotten that intellectual quagmire you yourself stepped into after lifting the hem of that silk robe. LABOR, WOMEN and MUSLIM countries. You had NO ANSWER. Now, kindly, stop wasting my time.

ntsyed #222 {``What did the bear say to its captured hunter, whom the bear had sodomized in the last two similar incidents? ``You`re not here for bear hunting, are you?`` LOL..... ``}

Syed Sahib,
I am glad that you are putting my hunter/bear anecdote to good use. Good for you. I have never laughed so hard in such a long time. You, sir, are truly talented in showing people the right path - I could learn a lot from your excellent command of humor, wit, and calm behavior under fire.
Good Luck,
Salim

Re: # 218

{{If you marry me I promise I won`t act like that.}}

OK..Bina..when i read your article I was thinking...ki...if pakistani women get real power, we indians would be in a deep pile of do-do....

but NOW...i`m not so sure...

Re: # 211

{{...... you will be glad to know that my fish are doing fine - six african cichlids}}

See...Ay-tol`-yah!...when you`ve done with the rest... you come to the best:)...


{{....... by the way do you know how to tell a male from a female ?..........}}

The males are the ones who act like Pathans...dumb..good looking...territorial & very pugnacious mofos...

..if you wanted a ``peaceful`` cichlid tank...you should have stuck to wimpy angels & discus..

{{ also, why is it that all of them are ganging up on one poor thing that is clinging to the filter thingy in a vertical position ?}}

I hope you now realise how my cousin Romair feels...or OUGHT to feel.... when he spews his well spun bs on Chowk...the guy is identified as the ``biggest chut`` in that microcosm by his buddies...

now...be a good boy & give him real Azaadi...and...GET HIM OUTA THERE!!!...before he meets his maker!...

The fish...I mean...not Romair...


{{(reminds me of mr ntsyed) ............ and why does one of them keep on digging up the rocks ? (reminds me of the diligent ms saminasha) ............ is it a male making a nest to entice a female, or is a female doing her own thing to lay eggs ?...........}}

Not bad..not bad...you picked up on THAT... too, eh?! lol!!!

Weell actually ...the male digs a pit to ``establish a territory``...kinda like a Pathan does...

{{........ to be honest, i find what is happening in the aquarium a more interesting than the happenings on chowk ......... mrs hamidm also watches them more than she watches the tv - the kids think that we are going nuts in our middle age and think we should ``get a life`` ?.......... what is your opinion as a professional shrink and fishkeeper ?}}

I hate to tell you this...but I agree with your kids...you & your mrs need to get a life!!

Re: # 205

{{Listen, if Allah wanted us to see head doctors, he would have invented them!}}

BINGO!!!

...& why do you thing I exist?!...ya dope ya!..

Re: # 222

Er...folks...its none of my business...but there is such an ``issue`` called ``subconcious sexual attraction`` between the 2 of you....now be good & sleep with your respective partners...OK? ...fantasise all you want...but not about each other...Ok...Allah is watching....not that that is any of my business, ofcourse...but ...then again I could be wrong:()...but then again...who knows ?

Re: # 207

{{with the exception of this shrunk shrink Shankar (SSS, or S3), with whom I intend to deal in my own sweet time}}

O Jesus kaali maa!...mujhe bachaooo!!...

the Bihari`s tongue was ``got`` by the proverbial cat....

I know what hydrocoel-head is going to do....call Lallooo up & conspire about me...maybe then Lalloo will declare war on Amrika & I will be taken as PoW & sent to Guantanamo Bay Resort...& then Rabri will torture me by giving me a lap-dance...ugh...I`d rather deal with a German Shepard thingy...than be subjected to THAT!!!

``And for women are rights over men similar to those of men over women.`` Al Quran(2:226)

``there shall be no compulsion in religion`` Al Quran(2:256)

Re: # 207

Thank you BeeJay! I admire your civility.

Cheers :-)~~

Re: # 208

Semi-nasha punches the keyboard: ``Nyetsyed Beeyatch``....

LOL.....LOL.....ROTFL. Looks like the ``ineffectual threat`` achieved it first objective of psyching you out. I must say though, the result came about even faster than I had expected.

``(and this should be some indication that this post is not going to go well for you)``

Care to retract or revise that???? LOL

hmmm....``frothing and yelping like the proverbial Pavlovian dog to the electrified bone``....``sexualized body parts``....

What did the bear say to its captured hunter, whom the bear had sodomized in the last two similar incidents? ``You`re not here for bear hunting, are you?`` LOL.....

Semi-nasha, you`re not here for intellectual discussions to destroy Islam and Muslims, are you?

``you know your metaphor from your *....if your post is any proof, you havent seen either in ages....``

May be you`re right, but it`s enough comfort for me that you`ve seen and hang on to my (*) for your dear life. Keep holding on to it as long as you wish...it won`t break like your fragile proud post-graduate ego and let you fall in the pits of your own depravity. I`m glad to be of help in anyway I can.

To paraphrase Dan Ackroyd, NyetSahib, you ignorant beeyatch.

ROTFL...would you like some ointment to soothe the persistent burning sensation you`re dying with?

``And so, as you brought up labor and how Islam systematically addresses labor and gender inequity, it is up to you, dear ignorant beeyatch, to explain how.

No dear baby girl, it`s not my job to explain anything to anyone. My role ends after giving y`all, ASSpecially the doctors and doctoral candidates, a topic to do your research. Investing my time in explaing the ABCs would be a wasted investment on my part and a disservice to your diminishing intelligence. Like I said in one of the earlier posts, you`re welcome to pretend to be a `female` worker in Saudi and experience all they experience that you ask about here. Then not only you`ll see the weight in my arguments, you`ll also be able to destroy Islam & Muslims single-handedly. But apparently you`re not up for glory, are you baby girl? You just need intellectual hand-outs and lollipops to keep your hands & mouth look busy, aye? No problemo...chowk is the place for you.

``Your backside (and this is to borrow the metaphor that seems to be the defining trope for you) had a alot to say,

ROTFL...you`re killing me. Please stop it...it hurts to laugh anymore...excuse me....gotta relieve myself....ROTFL.

ahem...I`m back...boy, that was what we call relief. May be a physician here can shed some light on why excessive laughing causes the bladder to overflow.

Anyway...no wonder everything I said went over and past your proud-post-graduate head. You had your ears and nose stuck to my backside. Sorry about Lahori chaanay I had last night...absolutely delicious they were. And that`s all my backside was saying: ``Lahori chanay were delicious``

Do you think any woman worth her mettle takes a beeyatch like you seriously?..........ROTFL.

I don`t know about ``any woman worth her mettle``, but with your numerous provocative posts addressed to me, I know YOU take this `beeyatch` more seriously than others.

Go home and cry........ROTFL

would you stop already?!?....how am I supposed to cry when you keep making me laugh so hard, although I guess I did get some tears from laughing so hard.

#209 by Saminasha on August 28, 2005 3:16pm PT
And NyetSahib,

Notice how I dont need a bunch of mediocre netwits cheering me on. So telling that you do....

Thank you AphraBehen for lending support to your beleaguered doctor here. But unfortunately as ungrateful as she is, you`re nothing but a `mediocre netwit` for her. I, on the other hand, still appreciate your support for her

Cheers all....I`m gonna vanish for sometime again (Semi-nasha, you breath easy now ... hehehe)

;-)~~

#220 Hamidm2

Okay hamidm, you forced the truth out of me!

I hope Shamina sahiba is not mad at me. The piece on culture was not mine – it was from her (from her “Dude” piece). I was only giving it back to her – in a manner of speaking!

However my dear Hamidm, you definitely go too far when you extend your gross and sweeping generalizations to “all” Muslims (that won’t include YOU by any chance?) You may mean it in jest – but how are simple folks (like me) to tell?

For instance, I know MANY Muslim friends who have canine housemates – no metaphor intended – and there is nothing “fishy” about how much they are attached to those pets!

Regarding you choking your hapless fish – didn’t I already warn you against listening to shrunk shrink Shankar (SSS, or S3). This is terrible, you start out getting your feet wet with the fish and before one knows it – you will be trying that stunt on humans!

Disclaimer: The word “shrunk” in intended to refer to narrowness of thought, limited vocabulary, and an inherent inability amounting to a debilitating disability to rise above cuss-words. Any resemblance with real or fictitious bodily appendages of the object in question is purely coincidental – unless it is real!

Re: # 219

beejay,

....thanks for enlightening us on the nuances of culture, a commodity that is in short supply on chowk since it has been taken over by bad poets and uncivilized folks .......... and you are right, ntsyed is in a class by himself - so let`s thank god for small favors .........

......... but i do think the muslim man is overly occupied with women`s affairs because his home and his woman are the only thing he controls ........ in every other field of endevour he has been beaten badly by the infidel men .(and women !).............. it would have been a lot easier if he could come home and kick the dog, but unfortunately islam does not allow us to keep dogs as pets ........... the other day i tried to choke my fish but it was slippery and got away ............

#208 Saminasha

Although I sincerely do not have any intention of descending to the depths of dreary dialogue being doggedly dropped and devoured in this disgusting den of dames and demons, I must respectfully disagree with your wanton attack on NTSyed sahib – a gem who shines with a glitter all his own – unlike anyone else’s – among the few denizens of the chowk world who can hold their own no matter who the enemy – man, woman, child, dog, whatever. I must also respectfully point out to you that it is against our CULTURE to throw insults left and right at people who have the seniority of years (if not the advantage of ears) over us – among the very few true gems of this site whom I feel honored to welcome in bright red letters. In our CULTURE, this is simply not done! Alas!

Cultural Studies

Definition

Cultural studies combines sociology, literary theory, film/video studies, and cultural anthropology to study cultural phenomena in industrial societies. Cultural studies researchers often concentrate on how a particular phenomenon relates to matters of ideology, race, social class, and/or gender.

Cultural studies concerns itself with the meaning and practices of everyday life. Cultural practices comprise the ways people do particular things (such as watching television, or eating out) in a given culture. -- http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_studies [Jul 2004]

Cultural studies developed in the late 20th century, in part through the reintroduction of Marxist thought in sociology, and in part through the articulation of sociology and other academic disciplines such as literary criticism, in order to focus on the analysis of subcultures in capitalist societies. Following the non-anthropological tradition, cultural studies generally focus on the study of consumption goods (such as fashion, art, and literature). Because the 18th and 19th century distinction between ``high`` and ``low`` culture is not appropriate to the mass-produced and mass-marketed consumption goods with which cultural studies is concerned, these scholars refer instead to popular culture. -- http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_studies

Culture theory [...]
Centre for Contemporary Cultural Studies (CCCS) [...]
In 1964, Richard Hoggart established the Centre for Contemporary Cultural Studies at Birmingham. Hoggart was followed by Stuart Hall, Richard Johnson and Jorge Larrain. The CCCS launched the study of subcultures. In 2002 the CCCS was closed. --jahsonic, 2004
Frankfurt - Paris - Birmingham
Perhaps the most influential British approach, dominated by the work of the CCCS, is more properly referred to as cultural studies, since the tendency is to see the mass media, as well as audiences as part of broader social and cultural practices. Unlike the Frankfurt School, whose `critical theorists` tended to celebrate the emancipatory potential of high modernist art and dismiss the products of the culture industries as debased and inauthentic, the British students of culture paid a great deal of attention to the products of `popular culture`, though it should be said that they too were, certainly in the early years, also suspicious of the mass produced products of popular culture, though they were prepared to engage with them, rather than simply dismiss them. Since the British owed much to the French research in semiotics, psychoanalytic theory and social theory, it became common to speak of the Birmingham - Paris axis in cultural studies. --http://www.cultsock.ndirect.co.uk/MUHome/cshtml/media/marxuk.html [Jul 2004]
Why Does Contemporary Cultural Studies Now Ignore Youth Culture? [...]
Contemporary cultural studies virtually ignores contemporary dance culture and contemporary dance music. For evidence that this is the case one need only glance at cultural studies’ most comprehensive publication concerning youth culture. Containing 55 essays, Ken Gelder and Sarah Thornton’s The Subcultures Reader contains only one essay that deals explicitly with contemporary dance culture (see Gelder and Thornton, 1997). This is at a time when dance culture and dance music appear to have an almost hegemonic grip upon contemporary British youth, with dance culture’s opposition to state regulation and control, and the massive commercial success of dance music, the most significant developments since the rise of youth culture in the 1950s.

One need only look at the statistical evidence to see that this is the case. Social Trends suggest that dance club attendance over a three month period in 1995 was approximately 14 million. In 1996 Mintel Marketing Intelligence stated that 18% of all adults attended a nightclub at least once every three months, with 4% of all adults visiting a nightclub one or more times a week (see Mintel Leisure Intelligence, 1996)1. That makes an average weekend’s attendance (the majority of nightclubs are shut during the week) of over one million, with the Henley Centre, market analysts, estimating that the dance scene is worth £1.8 billion a year (cited in Collin and Godfrey, 1997, p.264), and therefore of a similar size to the newspaper industry. If one compares the amount of time spent by contemporary cultural studies analysing the production, distribution and consumption of newspapers with that spent analysing dance music, then there is practically a void at the heart of the discipline.

Whichever way you look at these statistics, and no matter how flawed the method used to obtain them, we are still left with a massively popular cultural activity that is severely under-represented in academia. To understand why this is the case we need to examine how and why contemporary cultural studies’ interest in youth culture collapsed in the late 1970s. --http://www.staff.livjm.ac.uk/mccsbort/thesis/ch2.html [Jul 2004]

Text [...]
In the context of cultural studies, the idea of a text not only includes written language, but also films, photographs, fashion or hairstyles: the texts of cultural studies comprise all the meaningful artifacts of culture. Similarly, the discipline widens the concept of ``culture``. ``Culture`` for a cultural studies researcher not only includes the traditional high arts and popular arts, but also everyday meanings and practices. The last two, in fact, have become the main focus of cultural studies. --http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_studies [Jul 2004]
United Kingdom vs United States
Scholars in the United Kingdom and the United States developed somewhat different versions of cultural studies after the field`s inception in the late 1970s. The British version of cultural studies often promulgated overtly politically leftist views and criticisms of capitalist mass culture; it absorbed some of the ideas of the Frankfurt School critique of the ``culture industry`` (i.e. mass culture). This emerges in the writings of early British cultural-studies scholars and their influences: see the work of (for example) Raymond Williams and Paul Gilroy. -- http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_studies [Jul 2004]
Culture [...]
What is culture?
Cultural Criticism [...]
Cultural critics and commentators contribute powerfully to the vitality of market art. Critics put artistic consumers in touch with artistic producers, and help us separate the wheat from the chaff. They support the process of taste refinement. Listeners who take a sudden interest in classical music do not have to sort through the entire eighteenth century repertoire, but can listen to Mozart and Haydn. Clement Rosenberg and Harold Greenberg helped the American Abstract Expressionist painters find a public audience and win their way into museums. Pauline Kael directs our attention to the best of recent film. I hope my own commentary - in the form of this book - boosts the interest in contemporary art and music. These forms of professional cultural criticism, all relatively new professions, owe their thanks to capitalist wealth. The modern world can support many thousands of intellectuals who specialize in arguing the merits of artistic products. -- Tyler Cowen [...]
Raymond Williams [...]
Raymond Williams was an early pioneer in the field of ``cultural studies`` -- in fact, he was doing cultural studies before the term was even coined. This excerpt is from an essay Williams wrote in 1958, entitled ``Culture is Ordinary.`` According to one of his editors, Williams here ``forced the first important shift into a new way of thinking about the symbolic dimensions of our lives. Thus, `culture` is wrested from that privileged space of artistic production and specialist knowledge [eg. ``high culture``] , into the lived experience of the everyday`` (Gray and McGuigan 1).
United Kingdom vs United States
Scholars in the United Kingdom and the United States developed somewhat different versions of cultural studies after the field`s inception in the late 1970s. The British version of cultural studies often promulgated overtly politically leftist views and criticisms of capitalist mass culture; it absorbed some of the ideas of the Frankfurt School critique of the ``culture industry`` (i.e. mass culture). This emerges in the writings of early British cultural-studies scholars and their influences: see the work of (for example) Raymond Williams and Paul Gilroy. -- http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_studies [Jul 2004]
Cultural Critics and Schools
Frankfurt School, Birmingham School, French Schools
Mark Dery, Camille Paglia, Walter Benjamin, Kodwo Eshun, Steven Shaviro, James Gleick, Dick Hebdige, Simon During

Subculture [...]
Culturele Studies
www.culturelestudies.be

Cultural Studies in Belgium, I found their site while looking for info on Guy Rombouts

Dick Hebdige [...]
Dick Hebdige is a cultural critic and scholar who has written extensively on popular culture and design issues, the anthropology of consumption, and media and critical theory. He has published three books - Subculture: The Meaning of Style (Routledge 1979 [translated into 9 languages]), Cut `n Mix: Culture, Identity and Caribbean Music (Routledge, 1987) and Hiding In the Light. On Images and Things (Routledge, 1988). He has also published extensively in a wide range of journals including Art & Text, Art Forum, Block, Blueprint, Borderlines, Cultural Studies, London Time Out, New Formations, New Statesman and Society and Ten.8. His current research interests include the place of autobiographical and fiction writing in cultural studies; and issues in contemporary visual art. In addition, he has given a number of mixed-media presentations which set out to integrate an explicitly performative element into the lecture format. Hebdige has taught at universities and arts colleges throughout Western Europe, the United States and Canada. From 1984 till 1992 he was Reader in Communications at the Department of Media and Communications, Goldsmithsí College, University of London. He is currently Dean of the School of Critical Studies and Director of the Writing Program at California Institute of the Arts, Valencia, California. --School of the Art Institute of Chicago
Popular Culture Studies: A Background
``Popular culture studies`` is the scholarly investigation of expressive forms widely disseminated in society. These materials include but are not restricted to products of mass media such as television, film, print, and recording. Thus, popular culture studies may focus on media genres such as situation comedies, film noir, best-selling novels, or rap music. Other, non-mediated aspects of popular culture would include such things as clothing styles, fads, holidays and celebrations, amusement parks, both amateur and professional sports, and so forth. Ideally, the study of these or any other popular materials should be done holistically, viewing them both aesthetically and also within the social and cultural contexts in which the materials are created, disseminated, interpreted, and used. In this way the study of popular culture involves the use of methodologies from both the humanities and the social sciences in the effort to interpret expressive cultural forms, specifically those that are widely disseminated in a group (that is, that are popular) as part of dynamic social intercourse.
Popular culture scholars study these created, expressive and artistic materials as their primary data, much as literary scholars take the novel or the sonnet as their primary data. In this way, popular culture studies is within the tradition of the humanities. However, popular culture studies differs from traditional humanities studies in that it recognizes the existence of alternative systems of aesthetics which guide the creation of popular materials and the evaluation of those materials by an audience. Albert Lord, in his important work The Singer of Tales (1960), identified the ways singers of epics in Eastern Europe learn their art orally and how they compose as they perform. He suggests that these performances and the poems themselves be judged according to the specific goals of the artists and the audiences, and be judged according to an understanding of the problems unique to an oral poet. In other words, oral poetry is a different genre than written poetry. Each has its own aesthetic standards, and it is misguided to judge one by the standards of the other. Popular culture scholars recognize this principle and extend it to the popular arts such as television programs, popular films, popular music, best-selling novels, genre fiction such as mysteries or romances, and so on.

Each medium or genre has an audience that can and does make evaluations according to aesthetic criteria. These criteria are usually unarticulated, but they are no less real because of it. People regularly make choices as to which book to read or movie to see, and just as regularly evaluate the experience: this was a good thriller, this is a great party song. Because these aesthetic criteria are generally unarticulated, it is the task of the researcher to identify them through ethnographic methods such as interviews and participant observation, as well as humanities techniques such as textual analysis. The term ethnography refers to the cultural description of any event or artifact, usually as expressed and perceived by those people who are participants in the event, producers, consumers or users of the artifact, or members of the cultural group in question. After these insider (or native) perceptions and categories are documented, the researcher may undertake the scholarly analysis of the materials as components of a dynamic social and cultural field of behavior. These methods enable the popular culture scholar to situate the discussion of any aspect of popular culture within the larger context of the meanings and values of the society within which it exists; to determine, as Clifford Geertz has suggested, what we need to know in order to make sense of something (1984). In this way, the scholarly discipline of popular culture studies employs methodologies from both the humanities and the social sciences. Social science methodologies enable the popular culture scholar to root an expressive form in its social context and to uncover the aesthetic system upon which it is judged. Humanities approaches provide models for the appreciation of aesthetic forms and enable the scholar to apply theories of genre and make comparative analytical statements. As social science and humanities methodologies are combined in the study of artistic forms of expression that are broadly based in society, scholars can begin to provide an understanding of the social and cultural significance of these artistic forms, and begin to determine the aesthetic, social, commercial, and technological considerations that underlie their creation, distribution, and reception.


The Discipline of Popular Culture
Although the study of popular culture -- expressive forms widely disseminated in society -- has a long history, scholars disagree about the origins of the study of popular culture. This disagreement reflects a more fundamental debate over the essential nature of popular materials themselves. Some scholars, such as Russell Nye (1970) and Herbert Gans (1974), equate the materials of popular culture to the mass media, and therefore maintain that popular culture did not exist prior to the Industrial Revolution, the rise of a large middle-class segment of society, and the concomitant rise of rapid printing. Gans accepts the tripartite model of culture as folk, popular, and elite, describing pre-industrial Europe as largely a folk culture ruled by a small elite group. Other scholars, most notably social historians such as Emmanuel Leroy Ladurie (1979), Natalie Z. Davis (1983), and Peter Burke (1978) use the term ``popular culture`` to refer to the expressive materials of any group, large or small, pre-industrial or post-industrial. By this definition, popular culture scholarship includes work that focuses on pre-industrial expressive forms. Indeed, one might argue that the study of popular culture as a scholarly discipline can be traced back at least as far as the writings of Giambattista Vico, who anticipated today`s cultural studies programs as he attempted to discover the ``principles of humanity`` in his New Science of 1775 (Feldman and Richardson, 1972: 50-61). Whatever their position on these issues, however, scholars agree that the last fifteen to twenty years has seen a significant movement among scholars of all backgrounds toward an awareness of a large body of cultural expression that has fallen outside of most research prior to that time.
In recent years the study of popular culture has become an area of interest in many disciplines. Social and cultural historians, for instance, attempt to recover aspects of everyday life of the past that have frequently been left out of the historical record. In doing so, many historians have focused on popular festivals, carnivals, rituals, and celebrations, such as Emmanuel Leroy Ladurie`s Carnival in Romans (1979); Natalie Zemon Davis`s Culture and Society in Early Modern France; and Robert Darnton`s The Great Cat Massacre (1984).

American studies scholars also are increasingly investigating popular culture. For instance, recent issues of American Quarterly, the journal of the American Studies Association, have featured articles such as George Lipsitz`s, ``Listening to Learn and Learning to Listen: Popular Culture, Cultural Theory, and American Studies`` (42:4, 615-636). Broadly speaking, within the discipline of American studies, research has tended to view popular culture as being coterminous with the mass media.

Popular culture has become increasingly visible in the fields of anthropology, ethnomusicology and folklore as well. Anthropologists have been turning to the ethnographic study of contemporary culture for some time; this is especially apparent in the study of popular music (see for instance, Christopher A. Waterman, Juju: A Social History and Ethnography of an African Popular Music (1990), or Naomi Ware, ``Popular Music and African Identity in Freetown, Sierra Leone`` in Bruno Nettl, ed., Eight Urban Musical Cultures, 1978). It should be noted that both of these examples are African, which demonstrates that popular culture is not restricted to American materials.

Folklorists often study the popular use of mass culture, as in for instance Angus Gillespie`s book Looking for America on the New Jersey Turnpike(1990), or in ethnographic studies of movie fans who view a particular film repeatedly (Bacon-Smith 1991). Also, many folklorists research traditional aspects of popular music (Ferris 1977, Titon 1978, Santino 1982).

Even more recently, the rise of cultural studies and contemporary culture theory perspectives is very much centered on popular cultural materials. The emerging field of cultural studies often places popular culture within the perspective of the economic production of culture as set forth in Raymond Williams`s The Sociology of Culture (1982). Todd Gitlin`s study of the television industry, Inside Prime Time (1983), is an example. (See also ``Cultural Studies: Eclectic and Controversial Mix of Research Sparks Growing Movement,`` The Chronicle of Higher Education, Jan. 31, 1990, p. A5) Much of this work is being done in Britain on popular music; an important early effort is sociologist Simon Frith`s Sound Effects: Youth, Leisure, and the Politics of Rock `n` Roll, (New York: Pantheon, 1981).

The Department of Popular Culture at Bowling Green State University recognizes the historical and methodological importance of all of the above paradigms for the study of popular culture. The proposed Ph.D. program will provide students with the in-depth study of each of these, as well as provide the critical skills necessary for their scholarly critique, primarily in the two-sequence introductory courses, PCS 597: Methods and Materials and PCS 598: Contemporary Culture Theory. However, the proposed program espouses no single methodological or theoretical point of view. Indeed, the faculty as presently constituted, and as envisioned for the future, is representative of several different but complementary scholarly disciplines. These include literature, history, music, theology, American studies, folklore and folklife, and interpersonal communication. In addition, we intend to add a cultural anthropologist to the faculty to increase our strengths in the popular culture of other nations.

Nevertheless, despite the diversity of disciplinary backgrounds, members of the faculty approach the study of popular culture with certain shared points of view. These include the conviction that materials which are genuinely popular, whether we ourselves approve of or enjoy any particular item or genre, are socially and possibly aesthetically significant. Indeed, the ongoing controversies over censorship, rock music lyrics, and the content of music videos suggest the extent to which people in our society themselves recognize the impact and significance of these and other popular forms. --http://www.bgsu.edu/departments/popc/bkgrnd.html

Books

Cultural Studies - Lawrence Grossberg (Editor), Cary Nelson (Editor), Paula A. Treichler (Editor) [Amazon US] [FR] [DE] [UK]
``Cultural Studies`` is a broadly international collection aiming to help shape research and teaching through the 1990s and beyond. The book investigates contemporary commitments of the field: its historical and intellectual positions, political and scholarly preoccupations, and the kinds of interventions it aims for now and in the future. ``Cultural Studies`` offers a number of specific cultural analyses while simultaneously defining and debating the common body of assumptions, questions and concerns that have helped create the field. Topics addressed include race and minority discourses; ethnicity and post-colonialism; post-modernism; feminism; cultural policy; the place of history in cultural studies; the politics of representation; popular culture; aesthetics; ethics; and technology. At the same time, ``Cultural Studies`` explores such diverse forms of cultural phenomena as rock music, Chicano art, detective novels, African-American writing, architecture, reproductive freedom, ``sati``, Star Trek fandom, and New Age technology. Contributors interrogate their own theoretical and methodological commitments. This book should be of interest to undergraduates, postgraduates and academics in the field of cultural studies. --amazon.co.uk
``...the publication of Cultural Studies is an event no serious (or curious) reader can afford to ignore. Make no mistake: in American intellectual life, the ``undisciplines`` of cultural studies will very likely be the single most controversial and contested terrain of the 1990s, and Cultural Studies the most capacious text in the fray.`` -via amazon.com

About the Author
Lawrence Grossberg, Cary Nelson, and Paula Treichler are all well known for their extensive publications on modern culture.

Featuring new essays by such prominent cultural theorists as Tony Bennett, Homi Bhaba, Donna Haraway, bell hooks, Constance Penley, Janice Radway, Andrew Ross, and Cornel West, Cultural Studies offers numerous specific cultural analyses while simultaneously defining and debating the common body of assumptions, questions, and concerns that have helped create the field. --Book Description via amazon.com


Sexual Personae: Art and Decadence from Nefertiti to Emily Dickinson - Camille Paglia [1 book, Amazon US]
From ancient Egypt through the nineteenth century, Sexual Personae explores the provocative connections between art and pagan ritual; between Emily Dickinson and the Marquis de Sade; between Lord Byron and Elvis Presley. It ultimately challenges the cultural assumptions of both conservatives and traditional liberals. 47 photographs.

Greil Marcus - Lipstick Traces, a Secret History of 20th Century [1 book, Amazon US]
... In the 1989 ‘Lipstick Traces - A Secret History of the Twentieth Century’ Greil Marcus traces a subliminal trajectory where nearly-invisible connections arc across punk, the Situationists of 1968, Dada in 1916, the Enrages of the French Revolution and heretical millenarianism in medieval times. He isn’t describing the direct causal link of past and present but suggesting a more opaque entanglement. “Is history simply a matter of events that leave behind those things that can be weighed and measured - new institutions, new maps, new rulers - or is it also the result of moments that seem to leave nothing behind, nothing but the mystery of spectral connections between people long separated by place and time, but somehow speaking the same language?....If the language they are speaking, the impulse they are voicing, has it’s own history, might it not tell a very different story from the one we’ve been hearing all our lives?” [...]

The Cultural Studies Reader - Simon During [Amazon US]
The first edition of The Cultural Studies Reader [Simon During] established itself as the leader in the field, providing the ideal introduction to this exciting and influential discipline. This expanded second edition offers a wider selection of essays covering every major cultural studies method and theory, and takes account of recent changes in the field. There are added articles on new areas such as technology and science, globalization, postcolonialism and cultural policy, making The Cultural Studies Reader essential reading for anyone wanting to know how cultural studies developed, where it is now, and its future directions.
Contributors: Ackbar Abbas, Theodor Adorno, Arjun Appadurai, Roland Barthes, Tony Bennett, Lauren Berlant, Homi K. Bhabha, Pierre Bourdieu, Judith Butler, Rey Chow, James Clifford, Michel de Certeau, Teresa de Lauretis, Richard Dyer, David Forgacs, Michel Foucault, Nancy Fraser, Nicholas Garnham, Stuart Hall, Donna Haraway, Dick Hebdige, bell hooks, Max Horkheimer, Eric Lott, Jean Francois Lyotard, Angela McRobbie, Meaghan Morris, Hamid Naficy, Janice Radway, Andrew Ross, Eve Kosofsky Sedgwick, Edward Soja, Gayatri Spivak, Peter Stallybrass, Carolyn Steedman, Will Straw, Michael Warner, Cornel West, Allon White, Raymond Williams.


Cultural Studies and the Study of Popular Culture: Theories and Methods - John Storey [Amazon US] [FR] [DE] [UK]
I am using ``Cultural Studies and the Study of Popular Culture`` as the primary textbook in an ``Introduction to Popular Culture`` class. Now, on the one hand it is clear John Storey`s book is not written at an introductory level, which would have been a reason for me not to select it for my class. But this volume has two strengths that overcome that particular liability. The first is that Storey looks at six types of cultural texts: Television, Fiction, Films, Magazines & Newspapers, Popular Music, and Consumption (a.k.a. shopping). That pretty much covers everything you would want to look at in an introduction pop culture class so that students can get excited (relatively speaking) about analyzing their favorite television show or CD. The second strength is that each chapter focuses on two or three key concepts/theories. For example, with television Storey looks at Hall`s notions of encoding/decoding television discourse, how television represents the ideology of mass culture, and how there are competing economies of television. So even if the writing level is for the advances student (quality), students being introduced to cultural studies are being presented with only a few concepts to absorb (quantity). Even if he is writing chapters rather than providing essays, each chapter does offer a specific case study (e.g., James Bond novels) that will facilitate student comprehension of the concepts, which they, in turn, should be able to apply in their own papers. Storey does have another volume that is specifically ``An Introduction to Cultural Theory and Popular Culture,`` but it is structured by theories (culturalism, structuralism, Marxism, etc.). Ideally I would like to be working with a book from Storey that had the structure of the book I am using with the writing style of the other, but clearly you have a choice here as to which way you can go given both your preferences and the level of your course. Storey does a nice job of explicating these concepts without rendering personal judgments, which I think is important when you are trying to get students to actually use such analytical tools. Final note: Storey`s ``Cultural Theory & Popular Culture: A Reader`` is intended as a companion volume for his ``Introduction`` text and not this one. -- Lawrance M. Bernabo for amazon.com

Fashionable Nonsense: Postmodern Intellectuals` Abuse of Science - Alan D. Sokal, Jean Bricmont [Amazon US]
In 1996, an article entitled ``Transgressing the Boundaries: Toward a Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity`` was published in the cultural studies journal Social Text. Packed with recherché quotations from ``postmodern`` literary theorists and sociologists of science, and bristling with imposing theorems of mathematical physics, the article addressed the cultural and political implications of the theory of quantum gravity. Later, to the embarrassment of the editors, the author revealed that the essay was a hoax, interweaving absurd pronouncements from eminent intellectuals about mathematics and physics with laudatory--but fatuous--prose. [...]

Subculture: The Meaning of Style (1979) - Dick Hebdige [Amazon US]
NO CULTURAL STUDIES BOOK has been more widely read than Dick Hebdige`s 1979 Subculture: The Meaning of Style, from which this essay is taken. It brought a unique and supple blend of Althusser, Gramsci and semiotics (as propounded by Barthes and the ``Prague School``) to bear on the world of, or at any rate near to, the young British academics and students who first became immersed in cultural studies. That was the world of ``subcultures`` more visible in Britain than anywhere else: teds, skinheads, punks, Bowie-ites, hippies, dreads . . .
``Complex and remarkably lucid, it`s the first book dealing with punk to offer intellectual content. Hebdige is concerned with the UK`s postwar, music-centred, white working-class subcultures, from teddy boys to mods and rockers to skinheads and punks.` --Rolling Stone Magazine [...]


Introducing Cultural Studies - Ziauddin Sardar [Amazon US]
Ziauddin Sardar`s ``Introduction to Cultural Studies`` is nothing more than the title indicates. This lenghty essay merely presents basic concepts that are prevalent in a postmodern discourse between societal values, power relations, and the value placed on cultural ``norms`` given in various communities. Sardar presents the history of Cultural Studies as a discipline, which begins in a social context, but the analysis of which, takes place by various sociologists, philosophers (primarily Freud, Nietzche, and Hegel), and literary minds. Overall, the essay is enlightening as an introduction, a good preface to the discourse(s) one finds in most disciplines today. --amazon.com

Cultural Theory and Popular Culture: An Introduction - John Storey [Amazon US] [FR] [DE] [UK]
In this third edition of his successful introduction to cultural theory and popular culture, John Storey has extensively revised the text throughout. As before, the book presents a clear and critical survey of competing theoriesof and various approaches to popular culture. In addition to the theories and approaches discussed in the the first two editions, there is a new section issues involved in the on Queer Theory. Four earlier sections have been extended, with new material on Reading Romance, Reading Women¹s Magazines, Feminism as Social Practice, Men¹s Studies and Masculinities. Illustrations have been added. Retaining the accessible approach of the the first two editions, and using relevant and appropriate examples from the texts and practices of popular culture, this new edition is bound to remain a favourite with students and lecturers alike. --amazon.com

Resistance Through Rituals: Youth Subcultures in Postwar Britain (1976) - Stuart Hall [Amazon US] [FR] [DE] [UK]
This book is a must read for students of fashion, subculture, identity, and pop culture. Although the style of writing and some of the conclusions read as somewhat ``old-fashioned``, it was ground-breaking work at the time, one of the first serious scholarly treatments of youth and pop culture. More importantly, many of its arguments are still very relevant and need to be reconsidered in contemporary literature. The collection also discusses many styles which are all but forgotten to a younger audience and the variety British styles in the 60s is an education in itself for people who often think of past decades as having a particular ``look``. Excellent sociological analysis blended with ethnographic description. --A reader from Newfield, amazon.com

Re: # 177

Dear TMRTR:

If you marry me I promise I won`t act like that.

Sincerely,
Bina

What a subjct; Woman versus Man! As the story goes, Adam got bored in heaven and cried for a companion. Got gifted him with the woman. Alas! Adam did not call her `Baaji` or `Aapaan` and so both of them were turned out of heaven as a punishment for that sin. They are suffering but never repented. They are equal in suffering because the woman chose to be a wife, a creative being. Today she is not only clamouring for equality but for `empowerment` as well despite the fact that all power flows out of her `gun`. Once men called her `Sunfe Naazak` but today she is empowering herself and the man is suffering from `Mardana Kamzori` as quack advertisements and the family courts degrees indicate abundantly, as `Naan-nufqah` is still the responsibility of the man. Men are being sent to jail for not providing Naan Nufqah even to a rebellious woman. As a result the young are showing increasing tendency of avoiding wedlock which actually is the institution catering mainly to the need of the woman. One wonders what this compaign of equality and empowerment of the woman will lead to. It will most likely destroy the family institution and the looser will ultimatey be the woman as a result of gender confrontation which this compaign is likely to lead to.

Re: # 213

aphrabehen,

``god knows we`ve reached the age where women go out and fight while these men sit at home and play with their bangles`` ........... what would you have us do ? ........

...... but look, if we menfolk hadn`t done our part and defended our women from neanderthals who wanted to drag them to their caves by their hair, womankind would have been extinct ...... no? ..... but then we would have been extinct too ?........

.......anyway, ya`ll should not look at men to do anything for you, specially muslim men who, battered and abused and beaten at everything that matters by other men, have only their women to pick on .......... beating up on our women and keeping them in their place is the only way we can prove our manhood - heck, most of us can`t even take a leak standing up like real men.............. so please cut your brothers some slack

Re: # 214

Saminasha,

Case in point...and...nutcase without a point....

213, //So I was walking along on the Upper East Side looking for love and getting the gas face from every Tom, Dick and Harry//

And we`ve been lookin for you ever since.

Saminasha

re: ``Apparently humiliation has you frothing and yelping like the proverbial Pavlovian dog to the electrified bone....one can only wonder which hallmarks of your pathological delusions are more troubling: your refusal to admit when you are deconstructed, your creepy reflexiveness towards sexualized body parts, your latent racism that would do an English lord with gout glory, or your ineffectual, yes, unbelievably, ineffectual threats? Such a considerable list of competing disturbances-its a wonder you know your metaphor from your *....if your post is any proof, you havent seen either in ages....``

Gorgeous parallelism...but afraid your references will sail above the heads of the average trog here...the gout metaphor, one that Calvin Trillin once famously essayed as the disease of the shamefully harumphing and conservative feudal lord is too subtle...these ``beeyatches`` as you so aptly put it, understand only the crudest terminology....also, mention the subtext of racism inherent in the ``zebra`` metaphor and these ``beeyatches`` will have less idea of what you mean than an anger management workshop for those arab klansmen responsible for Darfur....In addition Saminasha of my heart, this is not a typically discerning audience apart from Shankar and on a good day, hamidm....they are just happy enough fools show up to slap that nyet sahib on the rump....god knows we`ve reached the age where women go out and fight while these men sit at home and play with their bangles.

love,
a

nt 206, //Apparently it worked like a spanish-fly on you and you came running in with your tail high up in the air.

Like I said, I`m a very busy man these days and don`t have time to undo your zebra stripes in order to reveal the ass. Before you start groping yourself, the ``ass`` referred to herein is the animal synonymous to stupidity and not your backside.//

These two lines are the funniest insults ever posted on Chowk. :)
Man, you are funny, you had me rolling and laughing loudly.

shankar,

...... you will be glad to know that my fish are doing fine - six african cichlids ....... by the way do you know how to tell a male from a female ?.......... also, why is it that all of them are ganging up on one poor thing that is clinging to the filter thingy in a vertical position ? (reminds me of mr ntsyed) ............ and why does one of them keep on digging up the rocks ? (reminds me of the diligent ms saminasha) ............ is it a male making a nest to entice a female, or is a female doing her own thing to lay eggs ?...........

........ to be honest, i find what is happening in the aquarium a more interesting than the happenings on chowk ......... mrs hamidm also watches them more than she watches the tv - the kids think that we are going nuts in our middle age and think we should ``get a life`` ?.......... what is your opinion as a professional shrink and fishkeeper ?

ntsyed sahib,

.... welcome back !........... i feel a lot better now that you are here to defend our collective muslim manhood which is so threatened by these horrible women who want to be treated like people .......... no siree ! we will never allow pigs, ahmedis and women to beat us like the hindoos, jews and decadent westerners have done and continue to do - we can only take so much ass-whopping ......... you are a true momin and may al-lah grant you victory against the source of all fitna on earth .......... ameen, sum ameen ........

And NyetSahib,

Notice how I dont need a bunch of mediocre netwits cheering me on. So telling that you do....

Nyetsyed Beeyatch,

(and this should be some indication that this post is not going to go well for you)

Apparently humiliation has you frothing and yelping like the proverbial Pavlovian dog to the electrified bone....one can only wonder which hallmarks of your pathological delusions are more troubling: your refusal to admit when you are deconstructed, your creepy reflexiveness towards sexualized body parts, your latent racism that would do an English lord with gout glory, or your ineffectual, yes, unbelievably, ineffectual threats? Such a considerable list of competing disturbances-its a wonder you know your metaphor from your *....if your post is any proof, you havent seen either in ages....

To paraphrase Dan Ackroyd, NyetSahib, you ignorant beeyatch. You can`t hide from the very examples you bring up in your attempt to dismiss someone else`s argument. You cant fart up smokescreens when this is pointed out, regardless of how smelly you might make the room. Eventually, the smoke clears.

And so, as you brought up labor and how Islam systematically addresses labor and gender inequity, it is up to you, dear ignorant beeyatch, to explain how.

What is patently clear to everyone is that you have no answer. Your backside (and this is to borrow the metaphor that seems to be the defining trope for you) had a alot to say, and now it is up to your brain to either admit defeat or more excruciatingly for you, come up with some support.

Btw, NyetSahib, your loathsome and disgusting online personality only reflects on you and your inabilities to maintain any equilibrium in a discussion. Do you think any woman worth her mettle takes a beeyatch like you seriously?

Go home and cry.

Dear NTSyed sahib,

Since I am trying to cut back on interactions (especially of the political variety) and also since I’m already finished saying everything I intended to say on this board (with the exception of this shrunk shrink Shankar (SSS, or S3), with whom I intend to deal in my own sweet time), I am not going to say anything. But I would like to make ONE exception and say:

WELCOME BACK!

Sincerely,
BeeJay.

---

Dear SSS (or S3),

I intend to deal with your foolish comments in my own sweet time.

Sincerely,
BeeJay.

Re: # 182

Semi-nasha

aray mujhay maaf ker meray gadhon ki ma!

If simple metaphors and analogies can be above your proud post-graduate self, then I couldn`t be more sorry for anyone in the whole mankind than your husband. I can understand why your parents may love you...but the husband...No one could have that much patience with your diatribes.

Your post was amply answered if only you could put your selective-reading aside and take some magic pills for apparent dyslexia. Bina Shah`s point was also well-taken, and the reason that particular part was used for sarcasm was that the rest of the rant had nothing else worth my time to tease her with. Apparently it worked like a spanish-fly on you and you came running in with your tail high up in the air.

Like I said, I`m a very busy man these days and don`t have time to undo your zebra stripes in order to reveal the ass. Before you start groping yourself, the ``ass`` referred to herein is the animal synonymous to stupidity and not your backside. Only your parents and/or husband may be able to tell the actual difference, though. You do perfectly fine yourself in revealing the ass - the four legged animal - within you.

For future references, watch your language when you start name calling without provocation. It is not difficult for me to shower you with titles and honors that`ll make it impossible for you to see your face or any of your other body parts ever again. The only reason I`ve refrained so far is because Allah may not like me afterwards. But testing my patience should be like walking on thin ice for you...very thin ice. If you surpass my threshold, then Allah will forgive me for the language I unleash on you. Your haughty attitude clearly indicates you ain`t seen nothing yet.

You have only learned to spell the words `gender` and `equality`. You have no idea how to use the two or what they mean. Nor do you have any idea how to treat different people equally.

See ya when I see ya!

:-)~~

P.S.:
#188 by Saminasha on August 28, 2005 11:58am PT
#192 by trmntr_x on August 28, 2005 12:07pm PT

Something very insidiously fishy-assed (again not a reference to anyone`s behind) going on here....ahem....hahahaha

Oye, Shankar Mian,

Listen, if Allah wanted us to see head doctors, he would have invented them! I am a perfectly functioning bipolar with borderline features of narcissism! What would you be if your wife wouldnt let you wear her bangles, even if you are really good?

``Men are bad but good daughters also change in company of bad men. They become mean and hateful, greedy and worse...``

Madani Mian,

After getting this sochalism textbook off my kumur, so to speak, I thought I would look at it to see what kind of magik eight ball answers it has to your queschuns. Magik eight balls are bohut masruff inventions, hain? No bakwas shakespere answers, just ``maybe``, ``no``, ``yes``. ``it looks that way``.....no soul searching, or critical citical methodologies....abey fatso bibi has hidden my eight ball-she wont let me make any more decisions with it....i had a system, see, when we could only pay electric OR phone bill, I ask teh eight ball, kuch ho jatha hain...but fatso bibi and her gentlemen nakras makes me now call each company and promise to pay them by such and such date....I dont know why she is so roti shakal about not having light before the day of her big inthihan...you are soooo smart, fatso bibi!, i tell her, you already know everything! Just write ``black power`` and the goras dont understand anything, but the kaaley have too many problems and we as muslim people should be respected and that your husband already calls you his queen and diwaan, and you will get A Number 1 grade!

bUT anyway....this society book has a whole section on women in society...baba, these women are out of control....abey, giving a light tapar now is ``domestic violence``...this is on foundation our society is based on, the right to give tapars to jahil auratay, hain! Also, this comment you made about beykaar son in laws, I know exactly what you mean. My sister`s son married a girl. He took her too the UK where she lived like a rani in a one room apartment, plenty of cold fresh water in flat! She worked at Blimpies to pass the time, no real need....Then when our mother went to visit them, the girl said she was too busy to cook! Too busy to listen to my mother`s complaining about not enough presents and clothes for the family in Pakistan! Too busy to listen about her being a spoiled daughter of a princess! This makes my heart hurt so, madani mian, that now this working has made our women too busy to listen to our insults! Hain?! OK, must go, fatso bibi is looking for her book

Re: # 177

Wow!...man...you need to see a shrink in your neighborhood...

Re: # 177

Wow!...man...you need to see a shrink in your neighborhood...

Re: # 183

Madani-saheb,

{{But most comments are not in good taste , they are in bad taste.}}

Janaab...I dont know how it is in Pakistan...but if you walk on a Chowk in Bombay; you better put some slippers on....otherwise you will step on a pile of dung...& you wont even know what the divine source of that dung was...

Khuda Hafiz

OK, I am ready to accede to all the rational demands of Pakistani women for equality and opportunity. In return, I request just one simple concession. Please allow me to sacrifice one (at the most two!) Pakistani (or of Paki origin) women to the Goddess Indus around Bakr Eid time. In the spirit of enlightened modernity and equal opportunity, I assure you that virginity, or lack of it, will NOT be a consideration in the selection criiteria. :)

#183, {``Some times I feel writers do not care they just want write bad and get famous hoping to get interviewed by Nytimes or BBC. Its pathetic to become famous such at cost of pakistan good name and reputation. As general said first think of pakistan, subse pahela pakistan, now even opposed to militart take over should know pakistan is president is pakistan. Its ok to criticise president in company of Ummah but when most kaffirs are here one should moderate writing to tone down negative aspects and have no destructive criticism. ``}

Mr. Madani,
That is a lot of food for thought. Thank you for giving us this important perspective on the nagging habit of some liberals to parrot the party line without engaging thinking cap.
Salim

Re: # 109

{{The aim of the scholars, the genuine ones, is for moral and spiritual guidance to individuals.}}

Yup!...
and there are about a zillion Ibn Ibn.Ibn buttheads (& THOU) `` is-scholars`` who are drowning out ``secular`` muslims...who are getting genuinely EMBARRASED about how ``culture police`` like your brothers & sisters...give ``spiritual guidance`` to every tom, dick,abdul & bina.....whether they like it or not!

How da heck art THOU any different from the vast assortment of brainless Islam ke mashoor pehelwan dukkar men...who have hijacked Islam to a tower.... & kept her er..``izzat``... ``safe``...from secular marauders ...like she`s Allah-damned Rapunzel...may I ask?

Speaking of which ...

...I do hope you have hi-tailed it from Inglistan to Pakistan...by now...its terrible what those wretched pommies are doing to ``you guys``...after 7/7...

I do hope...you outa be on atleast your 2nd wife, 3rd son & ``X``th daughter(s).. (whose numbers you wont count)...perhaps, you oughta make HER a hafiz, hahn?!...oh!? but I guess a 3rd grade education is more than enough for her...

I do hope...during your yatra from Inglistan to Pakistan...you took a stop-over to Fez...& got a kick in the skull from a Saintly Syed...to clear up some of the fog in your mind...maybe the view of Jannat & your 72 ever-virginial loving..er.. sisters... becomes clearer...

I DO hope you have read the ...er...fine print of.... ``Jannat``;... before you peddle your version of Islaaaam on Chowk...my mashoor pehelwan...methinks its a cruel trick Allah has played on the male disciples of the Holy Prophet (pbuh)...methinks HE`s DISGUSTED with how incredibly stupid they are!!!

I DO DO hope you are not walking around the evil West with my bhatija Urstruly; hoping for a ..er..close encounter with a certain German Shepard thingy...man..he`s very much into that kind of stuff..these days...

I DO think only one moose limb OUTA be allowed ...er...how shall I put it???...er..INCEST...(GASP)!!! with his divine 72 houris....HAMID_M!!

...& I`ll betcha...them houris aint gonna serve him ``virgin`` zamzama drinks ..either!...so he wont care what he`s doing....

Khuda Hafiz

#195, {``there would be at least ONE khalsa warrior in Ohio singing a suprano!!`` lol``}

Shankar bhayya,
Is there a soprano section in most Gurdwara choirs?
Salim

#190 by Saminasha on August 28, 2005 12:02pm PT
and then, ``copying``.

I am not a language teacher….
Covering up… first claiming “copy & paste” a pun and now, a typo….

TPMcafe... someone please....

Re: # 121

mohar
...groping a girl in the back seat of a car, hahn?...shareef ladki didnt tell her parents where she`s going, hahn?...

heheh!!!

my classmate... a certain sardar birather..who is a big surgeon now in a Midwestern city...made sure his beautiful daughter ONLY socialised with the kids of the local Sikh sangatan....

...yup! thats all fine & dandy...

One night...after a hard day at the OR, at 2AM..he drove up to his 3 car garage....yearning to crawl into bed with his beautiful wife...he heard a crash of garbage cans in the far side of the bushes...
$#$% racoons!!..he said!!

What proceeded NEXT was...to say the least...very very emotionally..er..eventful....

out comes his 15 yr beautiful old shareef daughter..trying to zip up her fly!... & put on a bra at the same time!...& then comes out a very sheepish looking 14 yr old khalsa warrior...who was feebly trying to cover his ..er..erect member with a turban!

Allah-kasam I could hear his roaaar all the way to Mid-Michigan!!! My bibi said ``its a good thing he wasnt carrying his kirpan...there would be at least ONE khalsa warrior in Ohio singing a suprano!!`` lol

Re: # 177

You are wrong. I have married three daughters. 2 husbands are of inferoir qualitiies and and raskals but we have to accept wrong choices as there is no otherway. Men are bad but good daughters also change in company of bad men. They become mean and hateful, greedy and worse. But I can not accept all women are bad. So I do not agree with comments. Two times I had to give money to these by son in laws I felt bad as I spend all my life raising them and upsurpers come and take away and we have to spend money its not just . bye

Now some comments regarding the Hijab controversy. Being Salim ``Look at it from all sides`` Chauhan, I wish to offer a few remarks about Hijab and some of the women who wear them. I always avoided Hijabi girls in the States. I thought they were religious robots and was frankly uncomfortable with their dogmatic rhetoric. Here in Turkey, I have been quite impressed by many of my wife`s girlfriends who wear hijabs. They seem so self-confident, so polite, and so logical in their thinking that I feel an element of regret for my previous prejudices. While no advocate of Hijab proliferation, I must confess at my admiration for these women. They put on the Hijab, usually at the chagrin and consternation of their parents, their friends, their relatives, and school officials. Their confidence, demeanor, determination, and ability to conduct decent conversations with males is what drives many men here to seek them out as permanent partners. And to think that I gave up drinking in exchange for my wife not wearing the Hijab.
Salim

Sameeenahsahiba,

Stop stealing my story! Its funny to you, but not to me! I support womens rights as long as it doesnt interfere with my getting my shorba cooked freshly everyday!

Bravura Saminasha!

It seems as if the IQ on the board has risen since you`ve shown up! I`d say more, but my popularity with others is really important to me!

love,

a

and then, ``copying``.

good for the goose....

Soulat,

look up ``pun`` please.

and then, ``psychopath``.

Bina....now the baass has me as her nauker....she has her western-smestern schooling...now she act like gentlemen sahib or sophisticated laty around the house....she read this idea of ``equal rights`` from some stupid gora textbook she wasted her paycheck on...i said, jacuzzi, mehboob, another trip to makkah, but she says, no, sociology is important for her ba! BA! AA wasnt good enough for her! And now her socialism book is saying things like, ``explore your values``...abey! explore our values? now she is asking questions like, why shouldnt she have a separate bank account? As if she has enough money after our bills are paid! Then she is learning about values from other countries, like ``machismo``....this is when the male is number one in the house...see! I her, all cultures are man number 1 in the da house! but her gora wannabe kaali-kaaley kaloot ``professor`` is asking her what she thinks! as if she has an opnon of her own! Hain? You think what I tell you think, my little fatso! I tell her, and once she is feeling bad about her appearance, then she is reminded of her place!

#180, Shukriya, Janaab ntsyed sahib,
Jahaliyyat ke muqaable meN hum-dimaagh hona ek zarorri baat he. :) Khush Aamdeed.
Salim

shanker da # 181:

me flatter? taubah taubah!

as for golden rules..there is only one...he who has the gold....

later in life danda replaces gold as is evident in most third world countries

and yes, parents are for ever at the short end of the stick when the children are between the ages of 15-30+

once they get their own kids...well they need reliable baby sitters

sorry for the dirgression folks...

#184, {``It is ``bated breath`` and not BAITED breath... ``}

Soulat, thank you for your much-needed corrective action. :)

In this particular case, maybe ``bad breath`` is both short and apropos. :)

#164 by Saminasha

“WAITING with baited breath...”

Please refrain from coping phrases from several liberal discussion boards and then you don’t copy them correctly too.

It is “bated breath” and not BAITED breath…

Thanks.

Ref: many comments.
Article is fine and has good points. But writing of hypothetical situation is not good and is extreme. I can understand to make points.
But most comments are not in good taste , they are in bad taste. YLH is great but some times gets crazy when these kafirs floating all around press some j and g and s ( secular) buttons. Similarly lots of Indians are having field day to have written by ms. Shah and critical of sociopolitical situation in country and related comments and specially the miserable animal like conditions met by 60% women. Its not religious thing but Hindians have made it. Its backward inward looking idealogical country trying to grasp some new guidelines under capable leadeship of President - moderation and enlightenment. . In such times Ms. Shah should have been sympathetic to pakistani nation as nation is getting out of slumber and getting in moderation which can lead to demise Jihad and killing slowly. But such criticism demoralise people and people try to flee as they feel condition are worst when they are worse or badder. Then Dubai cracks on good people and good people are punished for no fault of theirs and writer can not help the plight when they do not allow even leader of opposition is not allowed. Some times I feel writers do not care they just want write bad and get famous hoping to get interviewed by Nytimes or BBC. Its pathetic to become famous such at cost of pakistan good name and reputation. As general said first think of pakistan, subse pahela pakistan, now even opposed to militart take over should know pakistan is president is pakistan. Its ok to criticise president in company of Ummah but when most kaffirs are here one should moderate writing to tone down negative aspects and have no destructive criticism. Dawn , Jang are failures as they are full of bad news top to bottom no good news. It is specially bad when general has courageously accepted to address jew people in newyork as he is moving in enemies caves. He may have great danger from people opposed to his dialogue with mother religion of islam and christy people jew people. There may be great danger and all nation should help him but more croticism specially jihadi extremists are going crazy. Lots of advantages with establishment of relationship with isarael. Arabs will not take us for granted and will respect us. It is possible then he can be peace maker for palestaian and isarael and president Bush has support to get moderate muslim laeder get involved just like hasan Mubarak of egypt.

The comments by women are really negative and teasing to men and criticising them this can great distress and he may take on his wife by beating her etc. But these commentators provoke men by provokative comments.
Best way is to limit provokative comment writer men and women to only 2 comments and then put censor cut. This women and men commenter has made gutter palce here.
I wish everybdy good luck , Bye i am tired by -ve coments by people.

NyetSyed,

You`ve been checkmated....now lets see if your fan club has the backbone to tell you so.

Now, lets proceed with the inadequacies of this post. Having missed Ms. Shah`s point and having that pointed out to you further, you are so beset with anxiety, you must save face by sexualizing the whole exchange. In other words, because I called you on your lack of knowledge of what labor unions are and how they operate, you felt the need to drag us down to your level of male pathology...which is to try to embarrass us thru a kind of sexual harrassment. Nyetsyed SAHIB...can you begin to admit how ridiculous this notion is?

Is Steven Hawkings your ``dominatrix``?
Is Albert Einstein your ``dominatrix``?

Then why should a woman with a brain bigger than yours be considered your ``dominatrix``?

Your intellectual better, maybe, but lets leave this repressed mcp vision of the world out of this discussion on labor.

Before you actually play your ``WELL WHAT ABOUT THE US????`` tit for prat game, just answer the questions. Nothing before then.

Re: # 106

temporal,

{{...where is that unmitigated rascal shanker?}}

i`m here!...i`m here!!...
....& flattery wont get you anywhere...


{{all cultural transference in kids takes place between the incubation and age three...}}

Aw...it isnt as simple as that...yes.... our human mind (brain ) LEARNS the most in our first 3 years ....& a lot of our CORE emotions are formed in those formative years....
BUTT...its the ``nature vs nurture `` fight...

our immediate society has a great pull on you...ESP when you are a teenager...the American society has a very very powerful, though insiduous, way of ``mixing you``

so if you want your daughter to be a a good muslim girl...or a good sati savitri...take her back to des.. before she becomes a teenager...

why do you think ``teenage years`` are so challenging...for parents..?...my 19 (going on 50) teenage daughter has given me a few grey hairs...when she challenges my core ``desi`` beliefs...I have the scars to prove it...

When a human being becomes a ``teenager`` his/her role models change...their parents arent the ``gods`` they thought they were....& their teenage friends (who are in constant contact with them ...over landlines...over cell phones...over aol/msn messengers)...complain that THEIR parents have pretty antiquated ``universal values`` too...

until...you get to put your foot down & say ...``hey KID!...whether this is INDIA or AMRIKA...there is ONE SIMPLE UNIVERSAL RULE....no matter where you go in this world``....

MY HOUSE>>>MY RULES!!!!!!

Like that incredible guru of parenthood, Bill Cosby, tells his son Theo...``I bought you into this world ....& I can take you OUT!!!``:))

...and...and... did you know what that feminazi kid said; when I first threw that COMMANDMENT at her?!

``wait till mommy comes home...I`ll tell her how much of a patronising ...male ...chauvinistic oink..you are!!!``

Its real pathetic to see a grown brahmin shrink cry real tears of frustration!:))))

My child psychiatry teacher once told me ``parenthood is the ONLY amateur profession left in this world!...``

Re: # 165

Tasleemat Salim Saheb! I try to utilize whatever blessings Allah has bestowed on me to its maximum potential.

Judging from Saminasha`s 166, I`m sure I`ll be a fan of yours ;-)~~

M`asSalaam
:-)~~

Re: # 164

ufffffff Allah... itna to koi blonde bhi nahi tapti agar uskay samnay koi blonde-joke suna de...tauba tauba tauba....hehehe

Reading your last line suddenly gave me the thought this is as close to a dominatrix as I`m getting in this world. I wonder though, when did this kind learn to use the ``P`` word as in `please`? Anyway, if Allah allows me into heavens, I may ask for a 6` dominatrix just to see what the whole fuss was about.

Anyhow...you`ve asked way too many irrelevant questions for a busy man to answer in a short time. I`ll tell you what, why don`t you do a practical hands-on investigative research and become a ``worker`` you describe in your questions and undergo the predicaments you mention and you`ll see the leadership, operations, strikes, negotiations and everything else. I`m sure your anti-Islamic rants will not be factored in. I`ll lie and put in a good word for you. That way you`ll have a solid undisputable data to bring down the entire Islam single-handedly. One couldn`t make you a better offer to achieve your objective than that. The only question is, are you up for it?

Earn your kudos baby girl...whining will only get you a lousy sugar-lollipop to rot your teeth and appetite ;-)~~

The big barn....
Speaking of ``Phillipina/Bangladeshi/Pakistani/Sri Lankan/African woman domestic worker(s)``, how come we find the same nationalities/races in these professions in the US of A in addition to the poor Latinas from south of the border? Why are there so few whites (if any) in this profession in the US? A lot of them tell similar stories as their sisters in ``so called Islamic countries``. Is US one of these countries too?

Ah the data, you must ask...sorry I couldn`t help predict your silliness...but then I`ll let you predict my response to let you get even on this one.

I`m sure you`re able to see the other side of the barn just as easily. Hint: Google, Clusty, plus it`s just as big as this side, unless of course choose to remain logically and rationally impaired.

ciao :-)~~

Re: # 163

Thank you for the warm welcome dear sister...may Allah keep you and your loved ones happy and prosperous in this world and hereafter! Although I`m here only briefly. In two days time I go back out on the road to earn a halal rizq Allah has allocated for me.

Some wise people have said one recognizes another`s traits [and forms ;-)~~] by virtue of his/her own. After reading the few responses to my post, I couldn`t agree more.

M`asSalaam,
:-)~~

Bina....women scare me...first they want to decide whether or not I`m going to marry them...then they want to insist that the dowry that should be mine is their propty...it was mine the day their parents starting giving that land, jewelry, apartment, money, clothing, car to them! Those gold bangles are MINE!!!....Anyway, then they want the right to divorce me? When does it end? You mean to say I can spend hours on the internet bothering other women, and that gives my wife the right to critcise me? What are they going to want next? The right to conjual bliss? I`M happy, isnt thats whats really important? They want to decide if THEY want to have children? WHAT?? Because now THEY want an education? Then THEY want a job? Then THEY say, its okay to have girlchildren and they throw out all the condolence cards we get after she has a girl baby? Then THEY say for the boys to help in the house? ME as well? Then THEY say they will let our daughter choose who she will marry?ISNT the baass happy with her own life with me as her nauker?

When does it end?

Re: # 102

trust me guys...i`ve encountered more prejudice in my 24 yrs in india...than my 24 yrs in amrika!...my kid is a true blue amerikan...er..with universal values...i havent caught her taking a leak on my lawn...yet...

#173, {``Right...it would be poetic justice when 20 yrs from now...there will be 3 eligible bachelors for 1 ``eligible jawan lady...I cant wait for the day when WOMEN start demanding dowry.. ``}

That or have a war with Pakistan over its abundant ``natural`` resources. :) But, before that I think that economics will play an important role in the ``export`` of such resources - Meera is just the beginning. :)

Salim

Re: # 100

temporal-ji,

{{however there is no harm in transferring some universal values...like not pissing on the neighbour`s lawn...}}

...and not adding some Canadian malt to the virgin margaritas...surreptitiously...shhh...when abba an` ammi are not in sight...!

Re: # 67

salim,

{{I have to be fair in my criticism. What you are suggesting to Pakis is already happening in high-tech India - thanks to the female infanticide as a result of sonograms and selective abortions. I hope that silly practice is stopped quickly.}}

Right...it would be poetic justice when 20 yrs from now...there will be 3 eligible bachelors for 1 ``eligible jawan lady...I cant wait for the day when WOMEN start demanding dowry..

Bina,
I, like most men, support women`s right to education, healthcare, employment, driving, voting, running for office and serving. What many of us men, and I believe most women, have a problem with is the feminazis overshadowing the women`s rights movements and hijacking the agenda. Then, sadly, we are left with shrieking, bra burnin, tampon wielding, obscenity spewing, misandry advocating, anarchist, lesbianism promoting, atheistic, castration threatening, amazons bent on having men reduced to effeminate rubber stamps. Thank God, most women do not share this vision of these mutants of femininity. As we strive to help the cause of genuine women, let us not be deterred by the noise created by these squeaky wheels. Sometimes the squeaky wheel get the oil, but at other times it gets replaced. :)
Salim

and speaking of George Carlin....where is my twig and munjun?...I`d like to agree with you Sha Sahiba...but this new generation scares me.....they like kaaley comics like ``chis rock`` and ``dave chappelle``...why do they want to listen to someone who`s name means ``hat`` in french?....they keep talking about ``keeping it real``...``keeping it real``?...how about ``keeping it fresh?`` I asked my donut boy when I got my last cup of chai cappucino....how about ``keeping it in the family?``....how about keeping it john updike...who I`d read....but he`s been canonized-the kiss of literary death-and he`s still alive!....

Saminasha, I second and third AphraBehen`s opinion....but as a man, I find that the last thought I had coincide with the release of George Carlin`s list of no-no words...and then it went downhill from there....the pc police has made my life miserable....those goody two shoes-or is this a perjorative term?...those well meaning ambidexterous abled anthropods have made my kicking the eighteen year old taco jockey an offense in Miss Manner`s books!...Miss Manners! George, can you hear me?....Why do I have to worry about things like why my mother`s dhoban doesnt have any teeth?....I know why she doesnt have teeth, but what can I do about it?....Its all Hugh Chavez`s fault, I say! ....Does he even know who George Carlin is?

Re: # 25

{{Women are actually becoming fighter pilots.}}

Ok...that does it...India is TOTALLY screwed..

Re: # 9

My dear Bihari-bhayya...tere dhoti mein do vade-vade papaya!!,

Whats this!!!?...you are dissin` my drinkin` an` doping buddy hamid for taking advice from mois?...somewhere in this maze of messages???

Lemme tell you...if there is ANYTHING worse than being a prepuceless/dickless descendant of Lord Ram of Lahore....is you hydrocoel-head descendants of Lord Krishna of Bihar!!!!

Here is a land blessed with RICH minerals...& what are you DUFFER Bihari showing for yourselves?!.... so backward-assed...that even Pathans look at you an` say...``Allah-damnit! these Biharis are one backward-assed buggers!....``
saala,.... sara hindustan ka naam satyanash kar dete hain!...

Do India a HUGE favor, hahn!?

Why dont YOU... & Lallooo...& his corpulent wife, Rabri (gee...she looks like she imbibed one too many rabris).... & all the motely billion crew of Biharis......BREAK AWAY...from India....&...&... JOIN the Land of the Pure!?...

TRUST me....it just might be a win-win situation for everybody...!!!

Oooops...they dont want you:(
Join Bangladesh!...oops..they dont want you either!
Join Nepal!....are you kidding...those Gorkhas arent as dumb as they look!...

I got it!!...maybe you guys ought to merge with frikkin Burma...& step out of the train altogether....

Saminasha,

How utterly brilliant you are! We missed you for all those weeks when there was no one to make any of the kinds of points you were making! Who actually writes about labor unions among interactors? Why nobody but you, Saminasha!

I wish you`d just collect a whole bunch of nics and make it look like there was a community of intelligent and progessive interactors! Because it seems that whenever the lowest common denominator posts, there are five other trogs congratulating him for actually using a keyboard! And if he is able to make a joke without referring to his own inadequacies? Its like the heaven the Ummah has envisioned!

I love you Saminasha, and all your comments on chowk and I am not afraid to say it! You are just so wickedly sharp tongued and have a laser like focus that I cant possibly support because I want everyone to be my friend!

But keep up the good work! I love you!

-a

what would a namard be without his jackasses a congratulating?

we`ll never know, as mediocrity reigns at chowk!

#162, Welcome back, Mr. Ntsyed. From your brilliant and fitting response, I can see that I am already a fan of yours - regardless of your politics. I admire your wit and humor. Please continue.
Salim

Goood Goddess, this is TOO rich....

NyetSyed writes:

``I support the ``Kacchi maassi with seventeen children and no teeth`` and ``Illiterate dhobans`` who keep my home and clothes clean and cook delicious meals for me and my family. The Union is called ``Islam``, which (unlike the author`s and your distate for them) allows me to respect them for who they are and what they can do...not where they`ve been educated and what they look like.``

So..now...let me get this straight...you were taking Ms. Shah to task for supposedly looking down on impoverished domestic working women-specious and belabored attempt at comedy-because they were not as toothy and contraception practicing as she would have liked. Her point, which you missed, even though it was as big as the side of a barn, was of course, not elitist twaddle about the prestige of having a toothed and reproductive right vested service workers-BUT- and nysyed, listen carefully, because I will ENUNCIATE-

having women workers who are not EQUALLY if NOT MORE marginalized by the systemic institution of gender discrimination as practiced in too many so called Islamic countries.

Get it?

In addition, I am extremely amused, nay, FASCINATED, by your claim of the Islamic UNION as you know it. Pray tell, or, pray AND tell, how does this union actually operate?
Who are the organizers, members? Who is the leadership? Which members of this union strike or negotiate FAIRER, SAFER and EQUITABLE labor practices for themselves and their coworkers? WITH WHOM are these negotiations made? WHAT is the pay rate for a Phillipina/Bangladeshi/Pakistani/Sri Lankan/African woman domestic worker in Saudi Arabia? Or is she disqualified from this ``union`` for being nonmuslim/south asian/black? What compensation is given for rape/passport theft/lack of due process?

Please reply ASAP-all my friends and coworkers in our unions are WAITING with baited breath...

ntsyed saheb:

welcome back! i see your time away has only improved your top form ;).

m

Re: # 159

No ma`m...I`m back to watch you continue making a fool of yourself with name-calling when you don`t have anything intelligent to say :-)~~

I support the ``Kacchi maassi with seventeen children and no teeth`` and ``Illiterate dhobans`` who keep my home and clothes clean and cook delicious meals for me and my family. The Union is called ``Islam``, which (unlike the author`s and your distate for them) allows me to respect them for who they are and what they can do...not where they`ve been educated and what they look like.

As for data, if your prophet Bush hasn`t banned the Google and Clusty under the PATRIOT ACT for the Moslems - liberal or practicing, pull up those engines on your browser and search away. I`m sure you`re liberal and educated enough to do that by yourself without bothering your husband or other men like me.

May Allah Guide us all!
:-)~~

Re: # 157

Kal,

I`m not worked up over India seeking access to Afghanistan, if that`s what you think. She can have all the access she wants. Unfortunately for you, in your nationalistic zeal you missed the context of my post viz the irony. Please read again if you wish to.

ciao,
:-)~~

#157 by kaalchakra on August 28, 2005 6:36am PT


Why do some people get so worked up over India wanting access to Afghanistan?


Ask the afghans how they feel about the pakis....that`ll make it clear...

Nyetsyed,

Back to remind us of your consummate stupidity....which union for Pakistani domestic workers do you support politically and economically?

Also, please provide legitimate data to prove your notions re: violence against women during and after the Taliban regime.

Hamid Sahib,

No thank you to the one year course. As the author pointed out, there are too many women who will gladly sell the female gender out for their tiny bit of private terrorism...as for men, we have our very own examples on chowk to illustrate how misogyny is entrenched in too many of the male gender. My husband and I were watching The Whale Rider with a close relative last night-have you seen it?

ntsyed

Why do some people get so worked up over India wanting access to Afghanistan?

``...but the meals at the Aurat Hostel will be prepared by a Kacchi maassi with seventeen children and no teeth...``

``Your laundry at the Ambassador will be cleaned in the hotel dry-cleaners, and at the Aurat Hostel, it will be taken to the Lyari River to be beaten on rocks by illiterate women.``

Hmmm... I couldn`t imagine a self-proclaimed liberal woman to discriminate against her own kind, just because they`re poor and uneducated...tch tch tch. What a let down for our oppressed mothers, sisters, wives, and daughters in ``liberal`` Pakistan, if there`s ever to be one.

I don`t know if she has come across the reports by Western journalists on the issue of women and purdah in Afghanistan. Almost all concur that during the Taliban years women were flogged for showing skin. Other than that they were safe and no one could even dare to harm them in any way. Today, with almost four years of democratic forces in power, if they do manage to get out with or without the burqa they`re kidnapped, raped, and murdered with impunity. Kabul may be a li`l better in terms of security...only li`l. And now India wants access to Afghanistan to bolster Afghan security while their own rebels are making and selling porn for funds...it`s like a cat volunteering to guard the milk....hehehe

The author needs to take a cold shower and get off of diet pills to eat some healthy food. Lord knows she`s rumbling a runaway train off the tracks.

:-)~~

Re: # 131
Turkey is way ahead of many Muslim countries; if Pakistan in the next 10-15 years can progress to where turkey is now that should be a big achievement.

What I wrote about brits and germans moving there big time, it’s mostly retired folks, you know the dream of many north European is to have a house or a villa on the Mediterranean coast. Turkey may go down the road of Spain with over development.

I think there is a very slim chance of turkey becoming a full EU member, there seems to be a lot of opposition in EU against turkey, well the European will have to make their mind up soon, either to let the turks in or start having more bambinos.

Re: # 152

For men like these I propose a new law: If a woman complains about harassment of any kind ..... mental, psychological or physical from any man ...... no matter even if it`s a lie ....
do the following things to the man:
1. 3 cops .... should bring him in the middle of a busy chowk (not this one) and hit him till the passerbys ask the cops to stop.
2. Secondly have him wear a burqa for the rest of his living life. (strictly imposed)
3. If it was a physical abuse, have him castrated, and publicize it.
4. Lastly, every woman should carry a small knife and a baton will have the right to kill any abuser on the spot. This will be not be tried in the court of law.

Please vote YES on proposition 153.

Re: # 148

Not the towel, sir, the toilet paper.

You don`t get enough, Sheikh Sahib.

Re: # 147

``And the dancing is very provocative. She is dancing, hands over head, elbows bent, head turning from left to right, and back, and back, her chest flung violently out on the 2 and the 4, the 2 and the 4. And parts attached to her chest are vibrating in slight delay, creating a sensuously syncopated boom chucka chucka, boom chucka chucka. But before you ladies get me arrested for what I’m thinking, let me ask for some help from the guys. We have 50,000 heterosexual guys, all different nationalities, all different religions, all different backgrounds, watching this girl. What are 49,936 of them thinking about? Baseball? I think not.

In the year 1 million BC, there was no game playing. Everyone knew what the dance meant. No mixed messages in Fred Flintstone’s day. Here’s a scenario. There’s 25 women from the village down by the river, pounding loin cloths with rocks, while the men wait in the village, scratching their stomachs, resting up for their next encounter with the wooly mammoth, trying to look good for something. All of a sudden, a young cave girl jumps up from her washing duties. Hands over head, elbows bent, head turning from left to right, and back, and back, she is thrusting her chest violently on the 2 and the 4, the 2 and the 4. Suddenly, a man in the village jumps up, nose in the air.


It’s coming from the river! It’s the miracle of procreation about to work it’s magic. Now we know what the men are good for. He rushes to the stream, nose in the air. She is thrusting more violently now (boom chucka chucka, boom chucka chucka). He better get in there quick or she will finish without him. So he clubs her on the head, drags her back to the cave, finishes the ritual, and now here we are, going to singles dances and reading this crap (boom chucka chucka, boom chucka chucka)!!!!``

- SS

samir sahib # 143:

Keep debating that issue ....

it takes two to tango

and since you have thrown in the towel.........again......

;)

rgds

t

sheikh sahib

Some ``fundamentalist`` language that we children and ignorant people are not supposed to understand? :)

Re: # 145

chucka boom boom chucka boom boom chucka boom boom
boom ...... boom ..... boom

Samir Sheikh bhai # 143

``Pragmatism,`` ``practicality,``

---

brother, I couldn`t stop laughing, and it would be unfair to not let you know. :)

re:#130 by Romair
There is no way to prove that Indian students did what u claim except that u are either bluffing or u are smoking pot again.
Or may be u just attract the worst crowd. Remember, like attracts like?
I have met many ``indian looking`` people in US who, when confronted with their nationality, told me they were Indians. Soon, i discovered they were Pakis. This happened once in YMCA where i used to go some years ago. Happened again in my work place where we get students (many Pakis) due to some affiliation with AGK University. One of them told me she studied in Punjab, India. Her name was a giveaway. She knew next to nothing about Indian Punjab.
So, my question is: why are Pakis so ashamed of their true identity?
Sridhar

Re: # 134

Miriam,

Keep debating that issue ....
And when you reach a conclusion please let me know too ..... my e-mail address is pragmatism@practicality.com

-Samir Shaikh

Bina:

All your concerns are very valid.

[On the one hand, we are mothers, daughters, and sisters, the most respected beings according to our religion; on the other hand, with honor killings, forced marriages, and domestic violence, you’d think we were animals that need to be kept in cages, bred according to the whims of our owners, and culled when we have outlived our usefulness. On the one hand Pakistani women are becoming Air Force pilots; on the other, sold as sex slaves.]

The above extremes and contradictions are indeed extremely disturbing. You cannot even apply a generic formula(of religion or culture) here expecting similar results in all cases. Even in one neighborhood, each household may nurture completely different views on basic women`s rights. There is no true freedom and independent identity for women in the Pakistani Social System. There are exceptions but those exceptions are very few and far between.

On second thoughts: Each culture has its own priorities. Giving women an identity and equal rights has never been the priority of the Pakistani Society. When we do not find the cultural world being fair and just, we jump towards the religion for some solace. After all, Islam gives a lot of rights to women and all the good stuff that we have been reading and hearing since our childhood. Who are the practitioners of that Islam? Who likes to practice the fair values of the religion?

Eureka!! I have invented the solution to the pardah that will make BOTH women and mullahs happy. Provided below is the new fashion device for mullahs and jamaatiyaas: by putting this on, they will not be forced to stare at women on the street. (Any man caught staring at women on the street - as happens in Pakistan - will be required to put this on for the next 30 days first time, 60 days if caught again, and so on). Women will be happy because they will not need to wear the pardah. One drawback: Hijabi women will be unhappy because they will no longer be able to make their fashion statement and flaunt their holiness.

Blinders

+

Mullah

= Peace on earth ``