Behind the Iron Purdah

yaar hamidm

am sure u have realised this by now

there is nothing short of opening a halal food franchise with virgin daiquiris and margaritas at the base camp of K2 that would satisfy our kids...nothing

however there is no harm in transferring some universal values...like not pissing on the neighbour`s lawn...

yes, the kids would do fine...down the ages kids have been doing fine;)

we were kids once too

good saturday morning!

Re: # 100

temporal-ji,

{{however there is no harm in transferring some universal values...like not pissing on the neighbour`s lawn...}}

...and not adding some Canadian malt to the virgin margaritas...surreptitiously...shhh...when abba an` ammi are not in sight...!

kaal, temp,

....... our kids will do just fine if we leave them alone and stop pushing our ``values`` on them - our village values are highly over rated and sometimes the imaginary product of nostalgia and ennui ......... it would also help if we stopped embarrassing them in public by wearing sneakers with dress pants and make an honest attempt to correct our V`s and W`s ............

kaalchakra sahib

i did mention `all` immigrants not singling out any one

and these teething troubles resolve themselves over time

wishing you peace

Not as smoothly as I would like to it, Temporal ji. I have missed many visits to the gurudwara of late :(

---

The inter-generation chasm here is of the strange sort. Instead of Americanizing itself and learning something good, the younger generation is running toward the caves (or Canada), as it were.

rabia bibi,

...... hijab is a silly political statement that people like you keep on pushing regardless of the fact that it undermines you as a woman and a human being ..........

`` Irrespective of one`s perspective, the fact remains that the hijab is an instrument of segregation and containment. It marks the Muslim woman for separation and for `different` treatment. Muslims who claim that hijab forces society to treat women in a special way (in terms of security and respect) do not work to ensure that the society has affirmative laws in place to guarantee equal outcomes for women. So, hijab ultimately undermines equal opportunity.

``But the sartorial hijab—with its attendant social practices of segregation, disenfranchisement and marginalisation of women—is only a symptom of a more profound and civilisationally debilitating form of hijab practised by the contemporary Muslim society. What is more significant and needs vigorous confrontation is the epistemological hijab that `good` Muslims insist on imposing on `good` Muslim women. ``


you can read the rest at : http://www.brookings.edu/views/op-ed/fellows/khan20050420.htm

kaalchakra #93:

don`t waste your pity here

the intra-generation chasm exists worldwide

and more so in immigrants...( read all immigrants)

how is your self-discovery of sikhhism coming along? are you more peaceful and contended?

Samir # 84:

first, thanks for responding :) (and that too in good spirits)

i will keep this simple…

without going into myriad of other factors we see that implementing simple traffic laws is a gargantuan task of brobdingnagian proportion…and compared to the thrust of bina’s article…adhering and complying with traffic laws is relatively straightforward

poultry farming at the summit of K-2 appears far easier than inculcating respect for women in my fellow desis

rgds

t

ps: rabia: never said we did not understand what you said!

I pity those American kids who are being brought up as Pakistanis (or Indians) and wonder what the parents of these kids are doing in this country.

What a totally totally misguided frame of mind...I hope it changes before the costs become too high or unbearably painful.

rabia,

..... it is silly to compare the institutionalized discrimination and abuse of women in pakistan which is supported by the law of the land, with the individual cases of violence against women in america ......... karo-kari, where ayesha`s father and brothers kill her in the middle of the night and then bury her in the fields, is not the same as bubba beating his woman to death in the trailer park .......... bubba goes to jail while ayesha`s brother gets re-elected to parliament ........... see the difference ?????

now your question : ``Why is it that other Muslims have more issues and objections to a woman wearing hijab than non-Muslims? ``.............. because they make us all look silly and set a bad example for our daughters who we are trying to raise as independent women who are not ashamed of their hair ...... besides, it is really not modest when you are also wearing a skin tight pants and pants - someone needs to tell these girls that breasts and buttocks are more arousing than hair ! .......... just as most ``normal`` reform jews are ashamed of their hasidic brethren who run around in funny clothes doing idiotic things like sucking on little boys` penises, we are ashamed of our lunatic fringe ........... unfortunately, our lunatic fringe is too large to ignore .......... hope that answers your question

Rabia-bibi,

{{I`m a Pakistani-American Muslim women who does the unthinkable and wears hijab because she wants to.}}

Wow! what a ``rebellious`` statement!
....DIMWIT!!!!!!

Just acknowlege the fact that you are Pakistani-AMERICAN...& thank Allah for it...

Y`see in Amrika..you can do all those idiotic ``I have a chip on my shoulder`` things......& get away with it...at the most you would get some dirty looks, if you went to a bar... GASP!!

(hmmm...remind me to go in a frikkin burkha at the next Haloween party at McCormick`s)...

OTOH....if you were a Pakistani-PAKISTANI women....I`d looooove to see you walking into the ...er...SIDE door of a bloomin` mosque...wearing a miniskirt...OK Ok...even blue jeans..

Oooooh! I`d looove to see a goddamned mullah having kittens, when/if he sees you...


{{I feel sorry for my non-Muslim American female counterparts because they have to worry about growing old without companionship and wondering if they will ever have children. I feel secure knowing my rights and knowing there are good Muslim men out there who also know my rights.}}

Yo! bibi-ji...save your sanctimonious pity for your muslim sisters who are ``sold`` into marriage to a dickhead...whether they like him or not...& even let the bum share her with 3 other lucky...er...``sisters``.. in the harem..

y`see...honey...a good muslima woman is not given the opportunity to even have a say in the matter...they are told they are the LUCKY ones...& idiotic women like you actually BUY that crap!...

and please dont go telling us that our Indian women are no better. Compared to Pakistan, Indian women have come a looooong way...thank YOU ..evil Bollywood!:))

while our Paki sisters like Bina Shah have the GUTS to speak out & tell these circumcised Emperors...these Islaam ke mashoor pehelwans...that they aint wearing no clothes...to take a long walk on the short pier of Lake Taliban...DUMBELLS like you have the gall to pity Sarah Jessica Parker & her NYC friends!

Now put your money where your silly mouth is & migrate to the Land of the Pure...you`ll feel quite at home there....

BUTT

one of these days...some other Islaaaam ka mashoor pehelwan mullah...is definitely going to say...hijab is not Islamic ENOUGH...a REAL muslima woman ought to wear a FULL lenght burkha...

...maybe then you could think about being a super-model in Pakistan...walking down a RUN-WAY IN kARACHI...dressed in a raw silk shuttlecock..embriodered in gold...with a Cashmere overall in 100 degree weather...

ONLY THEN...will I be REAL impressed by your BS!

Khuda Hafiz

Nothing typifies the problem with religion more than their pious preachings about modesty.

Undoubtedly, the `fundamental principles` or `values` or `treasures` supposedly hidden behind religious words are often their fundamental absurdities and fundamental inadequacies.

No wonder fundamentalists are in love with them.

re: 87

surely spirituality cannot come by wearing some silly headgear!

Ok I tried to read all the replies posted after my last post but gave up...its late and a crappy way to spend a Friday night na.

I think the point that I was trying to make is that women are treated badly in Pakistan, but Pakistan is no different that any other country for its social ills. Each society faces their own demons. Rural india...female infanticide and bride burning for starters, hello? Anyhow, I could be looking through rose colored glasses because I wasn`t raised in Pakistan but love it as my native country. But I can comment on the the plights of women in this country because I`ve dealt with battered women in my work and personal life many times. Yes its true a woman here can go to the police when she`s been attacked...but after that she often has to go to a shelter. At this point I know so many women who are always looking for a roof to hide under that it makes me shudder. I`ve gotten too many calls from women who have no where to go after their man has beaten them and thrown them out. I can`t speak for women in Pakistan but it seems that there is always family somewhere out there that will, if nothing else, allow you to crawl into a corner, even if just to waste away.
I think it just pained me to see such a focused attack on one country, my country, without acknowledging that those of the female persuasion have it tough everywhere. Even if you want to argue women in the US have it great, for the sake of argument, consider how long it took American social politics to get that far...and how old is Pakistan?

Ok, one more thing, and this is something I`ve noticed in my personal life and now here as well. Why is it that other Muslims have more issues and objections to a woman wearing hijab than non-Muslims? Its just the strangest thing to me, all of my non-Muslim friends thought it was great when I started wearing it and encouraged me to grow spiritually. But my Pakistani Muslim friends, none of whom wear hijab, were completely against it and have been visibly uncomfortable around me ever since. I`m an independant woman, have a doctorate tucked under my belt, make good moolah, live on my own in a nice little pad, and there is no gun to my head. So why dost thou protest? Be not so narrow minded my friends...

Rabia

re#83:
look at this from the article itself ``On the one hand, we are mothers, daughters, and sisters, the most respected beings according to our religion;

this can also be taken into account as a subtle attempt at confining women into religously (synonymous to MEN) defined ``ROLES``. The writer is buying this line with a straight face. Hamzaad pointed this out in his #6 and got filtered by chowkstaff.


samirfs: thanks for replying.

Re: # 85
Raw_Dust, I agree with hamzaad #6.The whole concept of subjugation of women hinges on religious role playing. And wrt miriams comment. that the concept of mans world comes from organized religion, I would think it is easy to see that it is the other way round.
Having said that,debunking those roles will lead us to reconsider the sanctity of our anthropological and social contracts like marriage and family. giving rise to unwed mothers etc(Of course there would be unwed fathers too, which aint the same thing. An interesting paper on an interesting book- Roxana by Daniel Defoe- ``Roxana`s Amazonian threat to the ideology of marriage`` discusses this in detail.
OTOH, the roles are designed in such a way that man controls the interaction of the family unit with the world, by providing for it. So it is logical that in religious societies one will hear significantly more hue and cry when a woman steps out of her role than when a man steps out of his.Modesty of women and hijab will be an infinitely greater issue than butt crack gazing or bottom pinching men.