Behind the Iron Purdah

Well, the issue is - are we willing to tolerate certain limited amount of nudity and shamelessness or not?

Re: # 36
{why only women species should hide themselves and become a public denouncement everywhere}

I never mentioned that, did I?! Men should dress up modestly as well. More modestly than women I should say ..........

{It is only a lure of men who just want to weave an imagination upon seeing a woman in relaxed mood and stare with her as she is wrongly situated anywhere in society.}

You just reiterated my point, thank you.

{How come you know that the two girls doing assignments were not graceful its dubiously NOT DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to the sitting positions and YOUR OUTFITS.}

I am sorry, I have no formula for that. I just sense it. Maybe, because at one point in my life a detailed study of body language was my passion ....

{ And how you think that GRACEFUL lady was upright in her ENDEAVORS.... }

Not endeavour, my friend ..... the word was Demeanour; the way a person carries herself or himself.

{This is where your mentality cease to go further with a demolished practicality and making you a fool who still thinks in pre ISLAMIC BEDOUIN way}

Believe it or not ............. some things ...... like some fundamental characteristics of man and woman haven`t changed since Adam and Eve and will never change. The point is to accept these in a practical manner and conduct our lives accordingly.

samirfs

``some fundamental characteristics of man and woman haven`t changed since Adam and Eve and will never change. The point is to accept these in a practical manner and conduct our lives accordingly.``

Do you believe that Islam is the ``natural religion?``

Re: # 38

Stop asking wrong questions, Kaalchakra!!!

{Do you believe that Islam is the ``natural religion?``}

No religion is natural. The fundamentals of a religion are natural. Religion is a man-made vehicle to transport those fundamentals to the mortal man.

Sorry! :)

Whenever I run into a Sufi, I can`t figure out what they really believe in.

I was trying to understand if there is any substance in your ideas or are you another Temporal bhai.

But I will leave you at peace.

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My curiosity about sufism springs from the fact that Sufis apprpriate some Hindu ideas that they don`t understand one bit, and try to combine them with Islam, creating an illogical and incoherent belief system. I don`t know about Islam, but that is a huge disservice to Hinduism.

It is time Hinduism and Islam were evaluated on their own merits.

Re: # 40

Kaalchakra,

{It is time Hinduism and Islam were evaluated on their own merits.}

That will always be the difference between you and me. You will always be on the look out for the differences (un-fundamental), conciously or unconciously.
And I will forever be on the lookout for fundamental similarities, and stay away from non-fundamental stuff.

{My curiosity about sufism springs from the fact that Sufis apprpriate some Hindu ideas that they don`t understand one bit, and try to combine them with Islam, creating an illogical and incoherent belief system. I don`t know about Islam, but that is a huge disservice to Hinduism.}

I am not a sufi (some might say) ........... but I don`t care, it`s non-fundamental. And I am not at all attempting to do what you stated above. If your comment is aimed at certain so-called sufis .............. then it`s none of my concern. But if it was aimed particularly at me, I would disagree with your analysis.

Samirfs

If you find fundamental differences between Hinduism and Islam, along with fundamental similarities between the two, are you willing to acknowledge them?

Too much digression. Sorry, that debate doesn`t belong here on this board, Sheikh Sahib. My mistake.

Bina writes ``Ridiculous as the Iron Purdah seems, it just might become a reality if we continue to sleep while our rights as women are slowly taken away from us, one by one.``

Put aside the sensational journalism of ``what it could be if Talibans were to take over``, the reality is that the overall trend in world, and the Muslim world, is towards more awareness for women`s rights.

And besides, why just compare to Taliban? Why not to Iran? If author is indeed a fairminded person, she should also have brought up this fact that ever since Iranian women started observing hijab in public (since 1979), their literacy rate has doubled, their participation in workforce has doubled, a few of them have even made to becoming vice presidents as well. So clearly, ``purdah`` does not seem to have much correlation with iranian women`s progress.

While women of landlord background, like Miss Beena herself, are scaring the heck out of us, the common women in Pakistan have made some real and impressive advances. I have personally seen young scarf clad girls confidently serving as conductors in the night bus between Lahore and Islamabad. I still sometimes think about that mascara wearing scarf wearing waitress who welcomed me in the Pizza Hut of Jinnah Super, Islamabad.

These articles with ``purdah`` ``burkah`` ``hijab`` in titles are a disservice to the REAL women`s REAL issues. These titles tend to blur the real issues by linking every concievable ill to the Islamic concept of hijab. It also subtly castes hijab wearing women in a bad light - as if they were oppressed.

This kind of sensationalism that revolves around a piece of cloth tends to put the major issues behind an iron purdah.

Great article, Bina.

The graveyard point really resonated with me. My brother-in-law passed away suddenly, in Bombay, leaving behind my sister and her three young daughters (12, 10 and 8. They were not able to go to the funeral even though now the girls wish they had. It would have given them closure.

Now, after they became teenagers, on birthdays and other occasions or just because...my nieces would go to the graveyard, just to say a fatiha or feel close to their dad whom they adored. Invariably some maulana type would appear and keep harrassing them to leave. Imagine, these were like 16 year old kids trying to be at their father`s grave, emotional and trying to be alone and some idiot is telling them to leave. One man got really irate and threatened to come back with other people and drive them out. A couple of years ago they wanted to do a quran khani for their dad and went to buy some of the separate paaras. The guy was like, ``apney bhai ko bhejo.`` They said they didn`t have a brother. ``To phir apne abba ko.`` He`s dead...that`s the reason we`re here. ``Phir kisee bhi mard ko bhejo.`` All the while the entire shop and people from other shops in the area were clustered around ogling the girls, passing rude comments, etc. Makes me so mad.

Of course, the good thing is that there is no constitutional or legal basis in India for this stuff. Thank God!

The scenario you describe is really vivid and frightening. Thanks for this article, Bina.

Bina Ji,

A very good article raising very valid points. Although i do see rays of hope, with more women joining and fighting to join public life. Thou our society must encourage and facilitate womens` involvement more. Its nice to hear of women Jumbo Jet pilots and fightor plane pilots etc. these are the trailblazers and must be given their due respect.

However, a lot of onus is also on the women in power and positions and welath to help their downtrodden sisters. What many ppl fail to realise is that a woman who has been abused and downtrodden passes that pysche on to her children, male and female thus more generations of affected ppl grow up.

A healthy woman makes for healthy children, a healthy future for every country.

Allah aap ko hamesha bahimmat, bakuvvet, aur khush rakhey, ameen. Issi tarah laRtii rehna, inshAllah ik din porey vatan o millet ko aap ke jadojahid ka phall mille ga.

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Rabia

This article if you read it once again is focussing on Pakistan and NOT any other country, it is not the concern of the author or the article to highlight womens issues in the USA, Europe or wherever else, she is concentrating on Pakistani women. Yes, women throughout this world have problems, but the focus here is Pakistani women, and if women throughout the world have it bad does that make it alright for Pakistani women to also have it bad? Why can`t we strive to improve our lot? Why should we resign ourselves to the `if americans have it bad, its ok for us to also` syndrome?

Its never ok, and no nation or people should ever be discouraged by using comparison or any other means, from improving their situation.

Bina Ji,

A very good article raising very valid points. Although i do see rays of hope, with more women joining and fighting to join public life. Thou our society must encourage and facilitate womens` involvement more. Its nice to hear of women Jumbo Jet pilots and fightor plane pilots etc. these are the trailblazers and must be given their due respect.

However, a lot of onus is also on the women in power and positions and welath to help their downtrodden sisters. What many ppl fail to realise is that a woman who has been abused and downtrodden passes that pysche on to her children, male and female thus more generations of affected ppl grow up.

A healthy woman makes for healthy children, a healthy future for every country.

Allah aap ko hamesha bahimmat, bakuvvet, aur khush rakhey, ameen. Issi tarah laRtii rehna, inshAllah ik din porey vatan o millet ko aap ke jadojahid ka phall mille ga.

---

Rabia

This article if you read it once again is focussing on Pakistan and NOT any other country, it is not the concern of the author or the article to highlight womens issues in the USA, Europe or wherever else, she is concentrating on Pakistani women. Yes, women throughout this world have problems, but the focus here is Pakistani women, and if women throughout the world have it bad does that make it alright for Pakistani women to also have it bad? Why can`t we strive to improve our lot? Why should we resign ourselves to the `if americans have it bad, its ok for us to also` syndrome?

Its never ok, and no nation or people should ever be discouraged by using comparison or any other means, from improving their situation.

hamidm:
#17

what’s insidious in this ideology is that it’s an organized behemoth which needs constant feeding to survive. it’s groupthink gone haywire. dismantle the organized component (is that even possible?) and maybe this unholy mess will start to sort itself out.

incidentally, the link you posted on zafar’s board (punishing disobedient wives) is enough to make one heave, and a perfect example of the complicity of some women in perpetuating this travesty.

m

Dear Bina Shah,

You article above is really a fun to read .Unfortunately, this does not present the true picture of Pakistani society.Exceptions are the part of every society and you can not genralizethese to the whole society.A country where a woman had run the office of Prime Minister not once but twice can not be viewed and judged properly in the light of your article.So please be honest next time when you pick up your pen.

samirfs:
#30

so, let me get this straight. you as a man are unable to control your base instincts. therefore, it becomes incumbent on every woman out there to do it for you by covering herself. isn’t that the same argument employed to keep women from occupying public spaces?

incidentally, some of the most unevolved of the male species reside in pakland, where women dress in shalwar-kameez and dupatta to boot. no short-skirts or low rise jeans in the equation but the men still manage to showcase their base nature.

i have some news for you. men who do not view women as sex objects and instead respect them as human beings and equals are not perturbed by what they wear. they also don’t use expressions like I could bang them right there and then .... upon seeing a bra strap or thongs. i know some of these lovely men so i can vouch for their existence.

m

miriamk

Women become complicit (in all religious travesties, not just in Islam) because in a world organized to serve the interests of men, women who play along with/align themselves with men win big. In such societies women don`t compete with men, they compete with women.