33 Years and Counting

omar saheb:

I was not editing your post, merely saying that it suggested an assumption on your part rather than an affirmation. I am not asking for any figures. Are there any names, ranks, etc.? What Ms Waraich and others are pointing out to are concrete cases, names and ranks. They are asking Pakistan govt. for the whereabouts of those people.

This is not an India-good, Pakistan-bad game. It is quite possible (Please note, I am not making a statement, making an assumption!) that the circumstances of the capture of these 54 soldiers was different, for example they might have been involved in unannounced activities in Bangladesh before the actual war started and the Indian govt. did not submit their list to Pakistan at the time of the POW exchange.

dost mittar sahib -- editorial kissi ki applause kay liye naheen post kiya tha -- only to set the record straight -- jiss ko `applause` karna ho ga woh karey ga -- i doubt it that editorial writers write what they do for any immediate/personal gratification or approval-- esp since they do not contain bylines

hahaha -- dm sahib -- im afraid i do not agree with your editing of my post because in essence i was saying that some of the 610 pakistanis in india`s jails must have been soldiers, or must be ex-soldiers -- surely such symantical nitpicking does not behove someone like yourself --

also, i do not know the figures, which is why my post clearly was more of an educated guess -- for figures i am afraid you will have to ask india`s relevant ministry under whose jurisdiction lie its federal jails -- i am assuming that it would be the home ministry ?

Omar#56

I applaud your editorial.


``yes dost mittar sahib -- of course you are not that un-informed -- but i wish you would stop pretending to be that way, it doesnt really behove you -- of course out of the 610 pakistanis in indian jails some must be ex soldiers --``

I really am uninformed, and you did not help by saying that some Pakistani soldiers must be ex-soldiers, instead of saying that they are ex-soldiers. If there have been any reports giving names, etc. of soldiers, please tell us.

Dawn`s editorial on October 2, 2004 -- on Indian/Pak POWs -- (which I might add I wrote)


Forgotten POWs

In a letter in this newspaper, the daughter of an Indian army officer says that she has been trying to trace her father`s whereabouts ever since he went missing during the 1971 war between Pakistan and India. This comes after the surprise release by Pakistan in early August of two Indian soldiers taken as POWs during the Kargil conflict and of a Pakistani soldier by the Indian side. What is interesting to note is that until then both governments had strongly denied holding any POWs.

Mohammad Arif, one of the two Indian soldiers repatriated, returned home to find that his wife, thinking him to be dead (the Indian army had declared both men deserters), had married again. The father of the other POW died in his son`s absence while his wife, also believing him to be dead, went away to her parents` place. The letter in question claims that at least 54 Indian POWs are still languishing in jails in Pakistan since 1971, and there might be a possibility that some could be in prison on the Indian side too. Islamabad`s official position is that it holds no Indian POWs, a refrain echoed by New Delhi. However, the recent swap in August indicates that such official positions do not tell the whole story.

It could be that in the case of a conflict as old as 1971, and with a new atmosphere of cordiality and reconciliation prevailing between the two countries, both may not want to touch a sensitive issue by publicly admitting the presence of POWs. But it is precisely for that reason that they should be willing to broach the subject without the risk of any misunderstanding. The case is indeed strong for the release of any POW who may still be in captivity on either side. Doing so will help provide some kind of closure and solace for their families, as in the case of the daughter who wrote the letter.

personally i think it is possible that the indian soldiers might be in pakistani jails, just like i think it is possible that some leftover pakistani POWs mights be in indian jails

#6 by kaalchakra on August 27, 2005 4:06am PT
Are there any Pakistani soldiers locked up for two decades in Indian jails. If there are, then India should first release them, and then ask for Sarabjit Singh`s release.

If there are none, then omar quraishi`s # 4 and mohammed majed`s # 3 are in extremely bad taste.


err -- mr kalchakra -- i quoted the GoP`s own figures -- nothing in bad taste about that


nb -- stop being so naive -- i dont think ms warraich came to chowk to get answers here -- unless officials of the pakistani and indian interior ministries happen to be chowkies as well -- she should probably lobby the indian govt at her end -- and by the looks of it, there should be some headway on this issue -- otherwise it wouldnt have been included in the secretary-level talks currently underway in new delhi -- that is, the interior secys of both countries are meeting --


yes dost mittar sahib -- of course you are not that un-informed -- but i wish you would stop pretending to be that way, it doesnt really behove you -- of course out of the 610 pakistanis in indian jails some must be ex soldiers --


also ms simi waraich -- no one is playing a blame game, at least not i -- i am trying to place things in persepctive -- i should add, in this context, that i was the one who wrote my newspaper`s editorial on this issue, some months back -- i doubt it very much that i would have done that if i were so interested in playing a blame game --

Waraich

we have no control over the Pakistan goverment take this letter and newspaper cutting of that POW`s capture to HT, Indian Express, TOI on Bahadur Shah Zafar Marg or to Zee, Aaaj Tak, NDTV, Star News offices in Delhi, they will take it over from there by getting it reverified, they will then take the proof to the PRO at Army HQ in Sena Bhavan or South Block, where ever he sits, and interview him. They will confront the press officer in the Defence Ministry. this will be headline news on most indian channels, if they can raise a hue and cry over sarabjeet and a convicted rapist/ murderer like Dhanonjoy they will certainly kick up a storm over these immensely long suffering soldiers.

You and the relatives of the other prisoners will have to do this because it is not the father or husband of some Bureaucrat in the Indian govt. that is incarcerated, and if you have solid evidence, then it is your duty towards your husbands and fathers. the public will definitely rally behind you I cant imagine it other wise if they can rally for sarabjit and Dhanonjoy.

hindvi:

This is an excerpt from farzana versey`s article, 1971: A Forgotten Story (http://www.chowk.com/show_article.cgi?aid=00001223&channel=civic%20center&start=0&end=9&chapter=1&page=1):

``Six months later there was another letter. “Dear Daddy,” it said, “Ashok touches thy feet to get your benediction. I am quite ok here. Please try to contact the Indian Army or Government of India about us. We are 20 officers here. Don’t worry about me. Pay my regards to everybody at home, specially to mummy, grandfather – Indian government can contact Pakistan government for our freedom.” The then defence secretary confirmed the handwriting as Ashok’s and changed the official statement from “killed in action” to “missing in action”.``

The letter has been verified by handwriting excerpts. I have a copy of the letter, I have a copy of Maj Ghosh`s photograph published by Time Magazine, Copies of newspaer articles saying Tombay had been captured alive and witnesses who heard the announcements of the capture.

As I said, these men are kept separate, specially after 1975- maybe even killed or converted - But ehy were there. Maj Ayaaz Ahmed Sipra told Mohan lal Bhaskar that he had befriended a Gill of the Indian Air force and a Capt Singh of the Indian army in the fort of Attock when Maj Sipra was there facing charges for attempting to overthrow Bhutto. He also told him there were others there.

hindvi#49:

You may have a point. I had somehow missed ``the jail``, the definite article does suggest your interpretation. In any case, I hope Ms. Waraich or someone else who knows more details will elaborate on this.

To most human beings the following statement:

``Last year in October, there was an article in the papers that Khushi Mohammad, a resident of Malerkotla, who had been released from Kot Lakhpat jail of Pakistan had informed media persons that some Indian Army Captains who had been caught in 1971 by the Pakistan army were being held in captivity in the jail,’’ Khushi Mohammad, released from jail in October, had also given the name of a BSF constable Surjit Singh who was in the same jail with him. ``
would imply the captains were also in the same jail.

but since you have doubts and Waraich, who wrote this is here, she can explain. i request he to do so. i think her previous post was addressed to you since she refers to post #43 which is by u not by me.

waraich
I dont wish to hurt you, if what you say is true it is a most dastardly deed commited by Pakistan, but you did mention ``Pakistan announced their capture. Maj Suri sent 2 letters back``

could you post some evidence of Pakistan`s announcement of their capture or could you present the two letters writen by major suri to a major print or television media org. in India, they will certainly fund the forensic costs of examination if the indian government doesnot.

Also if possible download those letters on chowk.

regards

hindvi:

Contrary to what you think I did read the statement carefully. I do not blame you for assuming that he implied that the captain was in the same prison. Mr Khushi Mohammad specifically mentions about the BSF jawan being his prison mate but there is no similar explicit statement re. the Captain. What was his source about the captain is not stated in the excerpt. (Maybe you know more about this casefrom other sources).

Re. Suri, why do you doubt the Major`s father? Why would anyone else send a letter caliming to be his son?

Ms. Waraich#36:
Hindvi is an Indian.

Re: # 43
I understand that you are sceptical. there was a programme on Ndtv today and a Mr Bhandara- a Pakistan MP faced some of the families. he seemed like a sincere man and honestly didnt believe there could have been any soldiers kept back. he kept saying Musharraf has given an assurance that he would not keep soldiers.

But face facts now- Pakistan announced their capture. Maj Suri sent 2 letters back. Various men have mentioned seeing them but after Maj Suri`s letters noone met them directly- saw them or heard of them. They mention that they are kept separately. Asma Jehangir said when she met the families that most likely they would be kept separate- in the fort of Attock perhaps. Others say they are moved every few months.

Now Even if they are no longer there- Where did they go? Either they died in prison in Pakistan as they didnt return or are still languishing there. Their names were announced as having been captured alive so POWs they were. That is indisputable.

As per me it is ridiculous to ask us- the relatives to provide proof- the Pakistani govt announced their capture- it is the Indian govt`s fault it is so slack- it should insist these men are there and should be returned as a matter of priority or it should be laid out clearly where they went. If they died - How and when and return their remains. India too may have soldiers.of Pakistan. If so give us their names and details of capture.

It is not, as I said an India does not have but Pakistan has POWs issue. A colleague of mine said there was a chinese fellow in Ranchi Mental hospital who some believed may have been a POW. India is not sacrosanct. Ultimately people are the same everywhere. look at the US and the way they have treated POWs. We are all human. As Pakistanis you are in a better position to find out if there is anyone in the prisons there. If you can or know of someone who can help, it would be great.

``He remembered the BSF jawan`s name because he claims to have been in the same jail. He seems to be making no such claim about the captain, at least in this report. ``

read the extract you have posted carefully

``Last year in October, there was an article in the papers that Khushi Mohammad, a resident of Malerkotla, who had been released from Kot Lakhpat jail of Pakistan had informed media persons that some Indian Army Captains who had been caught in 1971 by the Pakistan army were being held in captivity in the jail,’’ Khushi Mohammad, released from jail in October, had also given the name of a BSF constable Surjit Singh who was in the same jail with him. ``

to anybody who comprehends english, the captain was in the same jail as him, even otherwise how would he, a prisoner, know what is going on in another jail.

``And what about the letter from Major Suri to his father? Was it also fake? ``

This is the only presentable evidence we have. If this letter really exists it can be easily verified by forensic and hand writing experts, to whom it should be taken wether of the Indian government or private ones. It can be even taken to any of the TV channels or major broadsheets or magazines, recently Zee TV ran a report on secret corespondence between Churchil and jinnah, Hindustan times has a long running cock and bull project on the sitings of Subhash chandra bose.

Not just rightes media orgs like india Today, zee, or TOI but every single major media org in India would give anything for such a sensationol story and piece of evidence. Major Suri`s relatives should immediately take it to any of them. But I suspect they know this better than me.