33 Years and Counting

Dear Dr Waraich

I notice you have been personally affected being the daughter of one of the `missing` 54 POWs. The same is the case with me being a near relative of Fg. Offr Kishen Malkani.

I went through the extensive blog exchanges that your posting inspired and have therefore reposted an earlier blog posted a few hours back to Farzana. Many credible, capable, and influential correspondents have engaged eachother in this debate that is knawing the hearts of all of us suffering relatives.

I have proposed a course of action in my posting to Farzana that could perhaps be better achieved through your page since her original posting is quite old hence the repetition.

Love and courage to you,

pushpa


Dear Farzana,

You have ended your passionate blog with a prophetic query,
`Does not the appeal, “Join the army” sound like a slap to the parents, since they have been told he is not in the records?`

I whole-heartedly subscribe to this as is apparent with the unpopularity of seeking a career in the armed forces by many bright, intelligent, and adventurous youth.

It was not so in the past. (Its important you see my profile).

The mystery of the missing 54 POWs should not be allowed to die a natural death. The sacrifice of these warriors must never be seen as being in vain by the present and future generations. If even a SINGLE politician`s or big industrialist`s or media baron`s immediate family member had been thus sacrificed, am certain the `great mystery` would have been resolved long ago!

It is indeed tragic that opportunities have been bungled continuously, ever since we did not bargain for the return of even ONE POW in exchange for 2000 we magnanimously released at the end of the 71 war. Thats all water under the bridge now, and historians will forever debate the wisdom of confining the issue of POW exchange to the separate `fronts` in the war.

Getting back to the issue at hand: I begin with an incontrovertable argument, repeated unceasingly by concerned parties:
``It is incredible that all the POWs have simply vanished into thin air when the war ended in 1971 or soon after, and that absolutely no official evidence of their remnants exist``.

I know for a fact that bereaved family members cannot bear to imagine what the state of their loved ones would be (if still alive) after 34 yrs. The treatment meted to undertrials is horrific. Loved families left behind have been made to believe by well-meaning friends that the POWs could not have survived for so long. They have bravely and reluctanly got on with their lives.

That is the practical and caring advice I have myself offered to the suffering families.

Yet, this is only one part of the story, conveniently consigned to limbo to save the families from further pain. For the rest of us Indians, such disgraceful history which mocks patriotism, should not be buried without a thorough post-mortem. It must be unearthed, no matter how painful or embarrassing to the perhaps well-intentioned secrecy of the powers that be.

One could formulate a rational course of action by first analysing the Why`s of this secrecy, and then proceeding through our still credible judicial system, to reach the truth.

Let us accept, however reluctantly, that it was/is not sheer indifference by our govt for not having aggressively sought the release/wherebouts/remains/ashes of the missing POWs. The deception goes way back, over three decades. Most assuredly the records are missing (if at all they were recorded), so its no use blaming our present intelligence agencies for hiding the truth. Even when they have apparently tried their best, they claim to have reached dead-ends.

What however is most unforgiveable, is that a trail which was `provenly existent` in the case of some POWs for many years, was negligently, if not purposefully, allowed to gradually disappear. Now, decades later, the vapours gets life through stray and mostly silly rumours, that serve no purpose excepting to revive hurtful memories.

Through my studies on the subject, and I can only reasonably conjecture, that soon after the war, there was a deliberate `understanding` by India and Pakistan at the very highest levels, to keep all information on the missing POWs absolutely out of view till the picture clears. There are plausible grounds for this conjecture which `a select few in the know` are only privy to, and it is to them we must appeal to `open-up`. The embarrassing disclosures may have been `protected` within the frame-work of larger peace initiatives redifining boundaries within the subcontinent. The Simla peace talks between Indira Gandhi and Bhutto went very deep into shared confidences regarding the possibility of insurrections and further dismemberment of Pakistan. Future perspectives must have been informally and confidentially discussed/hinted at, in the back-drop of military elites plotting to unseat Bhutto. After the cease fire, its likely that in the confusion and anger among `uniformed` Pakistanis for losing the eastern wing, many POW undertrials were randomly scattered, without proper accounting, to remote jails. Even Bhutto may have been disinterested (too busy scheming to remain in power), as also being kept out of the loop by the military. This is not impossible. Bhutto claimed to have been disturbed by the screams of demented POWs sharing his prison when he was himself awaiting execution by the military dictatorship that unseated him. That could have been a clever ploy/red herring by him to get India involved to save his neck. Its quite another matter that we donot know what he did as PM himself after the war to resolve the POW issue!

One fact that can be reasonably surmised, is Pakistan would have been disgracefully exposed to the world for its treatment to POWs had any surviving POWs been returned. Top Indian `negotiators` in their own wisdom may have also felt that families of the missing POWs should be shielded from such ugliness. As is the case with any criminal activity, evidence is destroyed. Probably the POWs have also, inevitably and sadly, been fated to this end.

Subsequent Indian Govts, excepting for some maverick attempts, went along with the earlier ones as a matter of policy. Both sides have connived in obscuring the issue with platitudes and sheer noise. Pakistan`s conciliatory gestures are an eyewash, because for all practical purposes, the trail is covered up.

The above long discourse is to better inform international forums and active NGOs towards formulating an achievable twin-track course of action to meet practicable ends:

1. Previous participants in peace negotiations with Pakistan, and those with credible information (bureaucrats, military, politicians, advisors etc) must be informally persuaded through wide publicity/legally coerced with absolution from prosecution for any infringement of law (Official Secrets Act) into revealing all that they know. This is indisputably in the larger interest of human justice. The primary thrust of the legal argument keeping this subject worthwhile, is what was stated at the beginning of this missive:
``It is incredible that the POWs have all simply vanished into thin air when the war ended in 1971, and that no evidence of their remnants exist``.
(A similar move could be informally initiated in Pakistan by the media and NGO`s. The spin-offs are substantial in furthering friendly relations between the two peoples of the present and future generations who carry no blame for past hostilities between the two nations).
Possibly there is a misconceived interpretation of what constitutes `secrecy out of compassion`, by those holding back. They must `speak out` now, even after 35 years, so that the wounds do not fester.
For sure it will be a long and protracted process as the facts are collated, for missing portions of history to get dispassionately updated. This is imperative for the faith of citizenry in democratic governance, and plain human decency.
I am not a legal expert, but I can suggest that active NGOs pursuing this matter `re-introduce` a well-defined PIL, as also petition our President.

2. Persuade Pakistan to actively cooperate in searching/rescuing/restoring any material that may have survived all these years. These should be handed over to the families through discreet NGOs

For this mission to succeed, the media `tamasha` MUST be kept totally out of this effort, till `after` it has been achieved. A guarantee of confidence to this effect must be made by all concerned. A vital and encouraging cog in bringing such a scheme to fruition is the President of Pakistan, General Musharraf. We must take him by his word when he claims that being a soldier himself, he is not devoid of compassion when it comes to the subject of the missing POWs. The General`s proactivity in facilitating this would immediatey ameliorate a small but vital portion of the pain by way of the sentimental memorablia being handed to the families of the missing POWs. He would deservedly earn our gratitude, and establish his image as a humane person.

I have noted on this blog-site the participation of many influential and concerned parties. I therefore hope the `message` reaches general Musharaff, because he HAS the power to help us realise what many would cynically dismiss as a `pipe-dream`..

With all hope
pushpa

34 years is a long time. Its time enough to determine the overwhelming economic development for both the nations, a time enough to have revolutionised the corporate sector, a time enough to make economic and political reforms for a country that feeds a billion people, but 34 years seem less to the governments of the two countries to have taken appropriate action to repatriate the missing war heros from the 1971 Indo-Pak war.

In a single word, id term it nothing short of ``Inhumane``

Are we, the families of the missing ones expected to fill a cauldron with lame and paralysed excuses from the two governments? Is there no single person in the political scenario that can empathise with the 34 year long turmoil that each one is going through?

I urge the people of both countries to spend a while thinking about the nature of justice that is offered to us a civilians of a democratic and secular and integral nation. Is there no person in this world, is there no organisation in this world, is there no law in this world, and is there no government in this world that can resolve this issue. Where are the media, news, UN, Amnesty, Human Rights Organisations, Red Cross, and Geneva Conventions?

When there is war between two countries, there is enemity, but even enemies show respect. Id like to question the government asking them where is the respect that they have shown to their soldiers who have been missing since 34 years. If not for them, their lands would not be free, they would not be living the life that they are today, their families would not be able to move in a country that is free from war.

However, the price is paid not by the people who make the laws or the ones who are vested with the power to act and make decisions. It is the people on the warfront who sacrifice their lives, it is their families who suffer, and its people like us who fight a 34 years long endless battle for justice, for what is rightly ours.

There is still time for the government wake up to our shouts and endeavour to bring its people back, before they realise that they have no armies, navy and air force anymore to fight for their motherland.


More information about the facts and battles about the missing 54 can be found at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/projectpow/

Here is something in today`s Hindustan Times on the Prisoners of Wars. At last it seems we are waking up.

Our soldiers deserve more

Excerpts:

``The Missing Defence Personnel Relatives Association (MDPRA) and the War Widows Association also had the support of noted politician and filmstar Raj Babbar.

``Addressing a press conference here on Monday, Raj Babbar said, ``I whole-heartedly support the relatives in their appeal to the Governments of India and Pakistan and to the people to urgently resolve this 34-year old case.````

``Encouraged by the support the Government and people of India have extended to Sarabjit Singh (mistaken as a RAW agent and charged in a case of serial bomb blasts), the MDPRA recommended that they should be sent to Pakistan to work along with any NGO, such as that of Asma Jehangir, to meet all the Indian prisoners and identify them.``

``For nearly three decades, 54 families have awaited the return of their sons, husbands, fathers and brothers. The UPA Government claims it`s doing its best. But the people want to know why the Government, inspite of such concrete evidence, has failed to secure the release of these POWs.``

Re: # 68
Don`t flatter yourself, it`s entirely possible for me to be biased against you because I know you!!!
Seriously though, I happen to think the following:
Omar did not do you any great favour by publishing your letter. He is not even the letters editor of Dawn. It was brave of his paper to admit that this could have happened.
I object to bunching together cases of POWs and regular prisoners. Why do people (rightly) make a fuss about Guantanamo bay, and the lack of the Geneva Convention being applied there, but forget that it does not seem to have been applied to these men, of whom your father was one?

#78 by dost-mittar

[If these prisoners are to be released, a way has to be found in which Pakistan can do so without it appearing that it had been lying all along.]

Fat chance! A nation that refused to accept the dead bodies of its own soldiers at Kargil fearing doing so would expose its involvement, will never release the Indian prisoners even if India went out on a limb to convince it that such a release would be kept confidential.

Simmi
I forwarded your earlier letters to Moni Basu, a staff reporter of Atlanta Journal & Constitution. I hope that she will be able to help you...

waraich:

``Mr Bhandara told NDTv that Gen Musharraf was an honourable man and would not keep any soldiers in prison as was being suggested.``

I salute your faith. But Musharraf almost certainly has all this information but he still hasn`t acted. He may be an honourable man but he has withstood pressure even from Americans wrt AQ Khan, Omar Sheikh and others when it was a matter of saving Pakistan`s face. There is something similar here. If these prisoners are to be released, a way has to be found in which Pakistan can do so without it appearing that it had been lying all along.

As for the earlier interact about the story on Gen Tikka Khan- I know it seems almost unreal but I believe Gen Tikka Khan was the governor of Punjab then in 1989 and I know Vijaya- she is a sincere journalist- the story may well be true.

Mr Bhandara told NDTv that Gen Musharraf was an honourable man and would not keep any soldiers in prison as was being suggested. Now read the following-

In a conversation with Mr. Harpal Nagra who is the president of the South Asian Human Rights Group reported that in connection with the Sarabjit Singh case, Mr Nagra’s agency had sent a delegation to Pakistan to Kot Lakhpat Jail in 2004. When his representative who was a Sikh man with a turban was visiting, he saw an older man (75 -80 years old, very thin) and he wished him salaam waalequm. The prisoner replied by saying Waheguruji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh (a sikh greeting) and told him that he was in prison for many years with many more military prisoners and their cases had not been taken up as they were prisoners of war and they are not allowed to make any contact with outsiders. He said they had been forced to convert to Islam and read namaaz everyday. Mr. Nagra`s representative got further information that there are more than 400 prisoners in different jails as well as urns with remains of those who have passed away. He says that he did give this information to newpapers last year too.

waraich#74, 73:

Your facts are quite detailed and persuasive. If despite such evidence, the govt. has denied any knowledge of their existence, it reinforces my earlier remark that they are unlikely to admit to their presence now and expose themselves. This is unfortunately the nature of the state, national image comes before justice to individuals.

Maj. SPS Warraich’s name was reportedly announced on 5/6th December, 1971 as being captured alive after he and Maj. Kanwaljit Sandhu were captured on 3.12.1971 from the Hussainiwala sector. He was subsequently reportedly seen in Multan jail in January 1972. Again he was seen in 1988 by Mohinder Singh S/o Banka Singh, who was repatriated on 24.3.1988. He says he saw him again in Kot Lakhpat jail in February 1988. Gen Riaz told Mr Ashwini KUmar Ig BSF in 1972 at the Munich Olympics that Maj waraich was being kept in dargai jail of NWFP. Gen Riaz told him this as a personal favour after Ashwini Kumar had requested all his friends in Pakistan to inquire into the matter.

Time magazine of London, dated December 24, 1971, carried a photograph of Indian prisoners behind the bars. The said photograph turned out to be that of Major A.K. Ghosh, who was not returned by Pakistan Govt. with the rest of the PoWs.

2nd Lt. Paras Ram Sharma`s father heard his son`s particulars being announced on Pak Radio on Jan. 2, 8 and November, 29. L/NK Ram Lal (Retd.) (No. 9071130) of erstwhile 2 JAK Militia after his return from Pakistan said that he had met 2nd Lt. Paras Ram Sharma in Lahore jail for 5 days from 20.4.1973 to 24.4.1973 while awaiting his repatriation to India.

Balwan Singh, an Indian prisoner who returned home to India on 3.10.1998 after 9 years in Pakistan prisons, claims to have met Indian, PoWs of the 1971 war. He said there were seven jails in which the PoWs were rotated. He distinctly remembered one of the PoWs as Jagdish Raj who was being kept in “Phansi ki Kothi” (Fort of Attock) with other PoWs (L/NK Jagdish Raj figures in the list of 54 PoWs)

General Chuck Yeager of USA, who was on deputation with the Pakistan Air Force for training Pakistani pilots, has written a book of his role during the Indo-Pak war and has written in his book that he had interviewed about 20 Indian pilots in the Pakistani jails.

. Shri Rooplal Saharia had been in various Pakistani jails for 26 years from 1974 to 2000. He says that there were many Indian prisoners of war languishing in various Pakistani jails.

A book published in 1980 from Lahore titled Bhutto—Trial and Execution written by Victoria Schofield, a senior BBC London reporter, covering the period of 1978 when Mr. Zulfiquar Ali Bhutto, the former Prime Minister of Pakistan, was detained in Kot Lakhpat jail, Lahore (page No. 59) reads: “(Bhutto’s) cell separated from a barrack area by a 10 foot high wall, did not prevent him from hearing horrific shrieks and screams at midnight from the other side of the wall. One of Bhutto’s lawyers made enquiries amongst the jail staff and ascertained that they were in fact Indian prisoners of war who had been rendered delinquent and mental during the course of the 1971 war.” “Fifty odd lunatics were lodged in the ward next to mine. Their screams and shrieks in the dead of night are something I will not forgot,” wrote former Pakistan Prime Minister, Zulfiquar Ali Bhutto, referring to Indian prisoners of war of 1965 and 1971 who were kept in a cell next to his in Kot Lakhpat prison.

Shri Mohanlal Bhaskar of Firozpur, who was in Pakistan jails between 1968 and 1974 and was repatriated on 9.12.1974, wrote a book (I was a spy of India in Pakistan) in which he stated that in fort of Attock, a Pakistani Major Ayaz Ahmed Sipra of Second Punjab Regiment of Pakistan, who was imprisoned for conspiring against Bhutto, spoke to an Indian PoW Mr. Gill of the Indian Air Force and one Captain Singh of the Indian Army and mentioned that there were around 40 PoWs of the 1965 and 1971 wars who are languishing in Kot Lakhpat jail and had no chances of release in future.

I agree- this seems very vague and highly unlikely.

We dont use this anywhere. We cite announcement`s made by Pakistan at the time of capture, and Ashok SUri`s letter. There are reports of Prisoners, civilians, who have come back and say they have seen this one or that one but i feel the fact they were announced as captured alive by Pakistan means that Pakistan now has to inform us what happened to them?

Benazir Bhutto spoke of 40 Indian army personnel in kails in Pakistan and Asma jehangir had mentioned in 1999 that she had heard of 53 Indian army personnel in pakistan prisons.

#68 by waraich

I am afraid ms. Wariach the story about Tombay is pack of lies and nothing else.

Gen. Tikka Khan was never governor of Punjab. Not in 1989 or ever before that. He was a Minister of Defense in 1975-77.

Second, Lyallpur was named Faisalabld in the 70s and since then it is Faisalabd and was not called Lyallpur in 1989.

“He was wearing white Bengali kurta and pyjamas.”

Nobody wears Bengali kurta and pajama in Pakistan and some prisoners are issued shalwar kameez.

I am sorry this type of lies wont help your cause much.

Omar, I`m too much of an idiot to understand why writing that post made me an idiot, so please explain further, how and why. Thanks. Besides, thought you didn`t need or want applause?

nb said: The sad thing is that people like Omar can`t even see the human side. The writer is a woman, who when I called to tell her about the London bombings and that the ABC was saying ``Islamic terrorists`` were involved, said, ``Muslims are the most marginalised and persecuted people in the world now, maybe some of them can`t see an option``. So we are not talking about Islam-bashers or Pakistan-bashers here. Some of my fellow Indians may be unimpressed, as I initially was,(London, that great city, beloved of all Bengalis,how dare anyone attack London?Delhi?now there`s another matter) but no one can miss this generosity of spirit.


nb -- sorry to say but with this post you have proved yourself an idiot -- if i didnt `even see the human side` i wonder how i was moved to writing the editorial -- which by the way was a follow up of simi warraich`s letter, which was partly published because i pushed for it --
i should add that in our editorial meeting today i made a strong case that the editorial should also the raise of POWs, something that the indian and pakistani govts did not touch upon in their talks this week


i think it`s good to speak when one knows of the facts , dont you think nb jee ?

The following site deals with information on American POWs. http://www.aiipowmia.com/updates/updt0800.html
It also talks about 2 chinese prisoners taken by the Indians in the 1962 war who were recently repatriated after 43 yrs. Apparently they had been forgotten in Ranchi Mental hospital.

nb- you are biased because you know me!- and Omar did publish my letter in dawn. Im wondering if I can get him to publish another- we are now looking at requesting both governments to form a committee with officials of both sides, and NGOs like Asma Jehangirs and some family members who can have access to prisons and records. Perhaps some prisoners may have been given different names and got lost somewhere. Anything can happen.

My father was captured and Ashok Suri as well was captured before the war actually officially broke out but others were captured in the thick of it- Tambay whose name was published in Karachi`s Sunday Observeron december 4th, later Tambay`s uncle went to Pakistan with the junior cricket team in 1988 and requested Gen Tikka Khan to be just told whether his nephew was alive- he was taken 1 1/2 hours away to a building by army men and shown Tambay! You can imagine what the family felt after this. The article reads ``
When the Butcher softened to me by Jayant Jatar, Nagpur

Seventeen years after my nephew was declared missing in the 1971 Indo-Pak war, Pakistani authorities took me to meet him in jail on General Tikka Khan’s orders. My family had last heard of Vijay Vasant Tambay on radio shortly after his aircraft, a Sukhoi-7, was shot down at Shorkot in Pakistan on December 5, 1971. (There was also a Pakistani newspaper report that a certain Tombay - the name obviously misspelt - had been captured.) Though the Indian government later put him on the list of its missing defence personnel, Pakistan had continually denied holding him or any other Indian soldier from the war. Still in our hearts we always knew he was there somewhere in Pakistan. His wife Damayanti waited for him. His old mother held on to her life, hoping to see her son come back home. In January 1989, while I was on an official tour to Pakistan with the under-19 cricket team, I met General Tikka Khan, the famous Butcher of Bangladesh, at a tea party in Gujranwala. The general was then the Governor of Punjab. As people chatted among themselves, I stepped up to the general and asked him: “My nephew is a PoW in Pakistan. I want to see him just once. Can you help me meet him? I am not interested in politics; his grandmother is 92 years old… she just wants to know whether her grandson is dead or alive. It was a strange request, or so he thought, and he dismissively said: ``Theek hai!`` (okay!)

The next day, our team moved from Gujranwala to Faisalabad (then called Lyallpur) and was put up at an old British club - the Chenab Club. At 7.00 am, I was woken up by a call; a voice I did not recognise said: “Get ready by 7.30 am. Tikka Khan has granted your wish.”
Promptly at 7.30 am, a big black car - I don`t remember the make - arrived at the club. A man in military attire stepped out and asked me to accompany him. I told him I would be back in a minute. I went back to my room and as a last minute thought put on my team blazer.

We were three people in the car; my ‘chaperon’ sitting next to the driver while I sat behind donning the black glasses I was given to wear. The windows too were black… obviously they did not want me to see where we were going! I was also instructed not to utter a word, before during or after our rendezvous had ended.

It was around 9:00 am when we reached our destination - a big yellowish building… those government kind of buildings. I could not survey my surroundings as I stepped out of the car. My man was on one side of me and the car door blocked my view on the other side.

I was then quickly whisked inside a big hall, with several cells. All the cells were empty except for one, where a man reading a newspaper was seated with his back to us.

The man motioned me to the prisoner who turned to face us when I coughed to draw attention. There he stood… my long lost nephew. His movements seemed normal; he seemed to have been treated well. He was wearing white Bengali kurta and pyjamas. There wasn’t much change in him, except that he had longer hair and a slight beard.

I was not too sure if my nephew had recognized me, and so I pointed to the Indian logo on my blazer and tried to scroll ‘J’ on my hand. My chaperon, obviously, realized what I was trying to do, and there and then he terminated the session and led me out to the waiting car.

That was the last I saw or heard of my nephew. I wanted to talk to General Tikka Khan later… but then it was not to be scheduled.

(This story stands indebted to Vijaya Sharma, who tracked Jayant Jatar to Nagpur and convinced him to break his 14-year silence.)

nb#64:

Thanks for the info.

Re: # 64
I never asked the writer how exactly, but I hope she will feel free to tell your own story if I get it wrong...
What I think they were told, that is the families, was that there was a Pakistani raid on a couple of border towns and that`s where it happened. I do remember clearly that they wre taken on the Indian side of the border and never seen again...and to think this was a war India won. Is that right, Dr Waraich?
I also wish to remind people that every time the Missing Defence Personnel`s Families Association tries to contact Pakistanis, they are told there are Pakistani POWs in Indian jails. However, I have seen for myself that every time she or others offer to take up this matter and ask for a list of names, there is a deafening silence from the other side.
The sad thing is that people like Omar can`t even see the human side. The writer is a woman, who when I called to tell her about the London bombings and that the ABC was saying ``Islamic terrorists`` were involved, said, ``Muslims are the most marginalised and persecuted people in the world now, maybe some of them can`t see an option``. So we are not talking about Islam-bashers or Pakistan-bashers here. Some of my fellow Indians may be unimpressed, as I initially was,(London, that great city, beloved of all Bengalis,how dare anyone attack London?Delhi?now there`s another matter) but no one can miss this generosity of spirit.

``needs to provide a list...``

Harish, neither India nor Pakistan needs to provide any new list now because each country can always dream up, for the purpose, a mile-long list of fictitious names.

We should go back and look at those cases that have been raised repeatedly in the past.

nb#61

``The captures were on the Indian side of Punjab just before hostilities broke out.``

No, I did not know this. How did these captures take place before hostilities broke out?

Pakistan`s claim that there are no PoWs in Paki prisons would have been more credible if it hadn`t released the two PoWs captured during the Kargil war after repeated denials. Once it released the two, it is only natural to expect that the Pakis had been lying all along and there could be more PoWs languishing in Paki jails.

Similarly, it would be hypocrtical to expect Pakistan to admit that there are more PoWs unless we release any and all PoWs that may be incarcerated in Indian prisons. For this, Pakistan needs to provide a list of missing soldiers or soldiers that haven`t been accounted for.

That is why We had asked the Pakistanis for list of their soldiers- if any were missing. Riaz Khokhar had said in 1996 to Zee TV that around 250 of their own soldiers were missing but he said they had told the families to presume that they had been killed in war- ``Shaheed ho gaye hain.`` Does that mean the Pakistani govt has closed the case and is not following it up? I dont know.

Secondly it`s not impossible that these people be released. 2 POWs from the Chinese war in 1962 were repatriated after 43 years by India recently- I`ll post the details if required. They had been in ranchi Mental hospital and in fact a colleague of mine had told me of one of them after he learnt that my father was on the list of POWs.

So if anyone is still alive , they can be returned. The problem is if these men`s names were changed to muslim ones on jail records which is likely as after maj Suri`s letter in 1975 , it became a sensitive issue and someone somewhere decided this had to be covered up; but if their names were changed, only these people would be able to tell us who they are. If someone could find out what happened- whether they were rehabilitated even within Pakistan( there are rumours of that even), it would be an interesting tale.

Re: # 60
Dost-mittar, please consider what you`re saying. Why make assumptions when the truth is before you?Both of those things did not happen. The captures were on the Indian side of Punjab just before hostilities broke out. Where was the possibillity of doing anything in Bangladesh?
The Indian government did put these names to the Pakistanis at the cessation of hostilities. I have seen copies of the list myself.

omar saheb:

I was not editing your post, merely saying that it suggested an assumption on your part rather than an affirmation. I am not asking for any figures. Are there any names, ranks, etc.? What Ms Waraich and others are pointing out to are concrete cases, names and ranks. They are asking Pakistan govt. for the whereabouts of those people.

This is not an India-good, Pakistan-bad game. It is quite possible (Please note, I am not making a statement, making an assumption!) that the circumstances of the capture of these 54 soldiers was different, for example they might have been involved in unannounced activities in Bangladesh before the actual war started and the Indian govt. did not submit their list to Pakistan at the time of the POW exchange.

dost mittar sahib -- editorial kissi ki applause kay liye naheen post kiya tha -- only to set the record straight -- jiss ko `applause` karna ho ga woh karey ga -- i doubt it that editorial writers write what they do for any immediate/personal gratification or approval-- esp since they do not contain bylines

hahaha -- dm sahib -- im afraid i do not agree with your editing of my post because in essence i was saying that some of the 610 pakistanis in india`s jails must have been soldiers, or must be ex-soldiers -- surely such symantical nitpicking does not behove someone like yourself --

also, i do not know the figures, which is why my post clearly was more of an educated guess -- for figures i am afraid you will have to ask india`s relevant ministry under whose jurisdiction lie its federal jails -- i am assuming that it would be the home ministry ?

Omar#56

I applaud your editorial.


``yes dost mittar sahib -- of course you are not that un-informed -- but i wish you would stop pretending to be that way, it doesnt really behove you -- of course out of the 610 pakistanis in indian jails some must be ex soldiers --``

I really am uninformed, and you did not help by saying that some Pakistani soldiers must be ex-soldiers, instead of saying that they are ex-soldiers. If there have been any reports giving names, etc. of soldiers, please tell us.

Dawn`s editorial on October 2, 2004 -- on Indian/Pak POWs -- (which I might add I wrote)


Forgotten POWs

In a letter in this newspaper, the daughter of an Indian army officer says that she has been trying to trace her father`s whereabouts ever since he went missing during the 1971 war between Pakistan and India. This comes after the surprise release by Pakistan in early August of two Indian soldiers taken as POWs during the Kargil conflict and of a Pakistani soldier by the Indian side. What is interesting to note is that until then both governments had strongly denied holding any POWs.

Mohammad Arif, one of the two Indian soldiers repatriated, returned home to find that his wife, thinking him to be dead (the Indian army had declared both men deserters), had married again. The father of the other POW died in his son`s absence while his wife, also believing him to be dead, went away to her parents` place. The letter in question claims that at least 54 Indian POWs are still languishing in jails in Pakistan since 1971, and there might be a possibility that some could be in prison on the Indian side too. Islamabad`s official position is that it holds no Indian POWs, a refrain echoed by New Delhi. However, the recent swap in August indicates that such official positions do not tell the whole story.

It could be that in the case of a conflict as old as 1971, and with a new atmosphere of cordiality and reconciliation prevailing between the two countries, both may not want to touch a sensitive issue by publicly admitting the presence of POWs. But it is precisely for that reason that they should be willing to broach the subject without the risk of any misunderstanding. The case is indeed strong for the release of any POW who may still be in captivity on either side. Doing so will help provide some kind of closure and solace for their families, as in the case of the daughter who wrote the letter.

personally i think it is possible that the indian soldiers might be in pakistani jails, just like i think it is possible that some leftover pakistani POWs mights be in indian jails

#6 by kaalchakra on August 27, 2005 4:06am PT
Are there any Pakistani soldiers locked up for two decades in Indian jails. If there are, then India should first release them, and then ask for Sarabjit Singh`s release.

If there are none, then omar quraishi`s # 4 and mohammed majed`s # 3 are in extremely bad taste.


err -- mr kalchakra -- i quoted the GoP`s own figures -- nothing in bad taste about that


nb -- stop being so naive -- i dont think ms warraich came to chowk to get answers here -- unless officials of the pakistani and indian interior ministries happen to be chowkies as well -- she should probably lobby the indian govt at her end -- and by the looks of it, there should be some headway on this issue -- otherwise it wouldnt have been included in the secretary-level talks currently underway in new delhi -- that is, the interior secys of both countries are meeting --


yes dost mittar sahib -- of course you are not that un-informed -- but i wish you would stop pretending to be that way, it doesnt really behove you -- of course out of the 610 pakistanis in indian jails some must be ex soldiers --


also ms simi waraich -- no one is playing a blame game, at least not i -- i am trying to place things in persepctive -- i should add, in this context, that i was the one who wrote my newspaper`s editorial on this issue, some months back -- i doubt it very much that i would have done that if i were so interested in playing a blame game --

Waraich

we have no control over the Pakistan goverment take this letter and newspaper cutting of that POW`s capture to HT, Indian Express, TOI on Bahadur Shah Zafar Marg or to Zee, Aaaj Tak, NDTV, Star News offices in Delhi, they will take it over from there by getting it reverified, they will then take the proof to the PRO at Army HQ in Sena Bhavan or South Block, where ever he sits, and interview him. They will confront the press officer in the Defence Ministry. this will be headline news on most indian channels, if they can raise a hue and cry over sarabjeet and a convicted rapist/ murderer like Dhanonjoy they will certainly kick up a storm over these immensely long suffering soldiers.

You and the relatives of the other prisoners will have to do this because it is not the father or husband of some Bureaucrat in the Indian govt. that is incarcerated, and if you have solid evidence, then it is your duty towards your husbands and fathers. the public will definitely rally behind you I cant imagine it other wise if they can rally for sarabjit and Dhanonjoy.

hindvi:

This is an excerpt from farzana versey`s article, 1971: A Forgotten Story (http://www.chowk.com/show_article.cgi?aid=00001223&channel=civic%20center&start=0&end=9&chapter=1&page=1):

``Six months later there was another letter. “Dear Daddy,” it said, “Ashok touches thy feet to get your benediction. I am quite ok here. Please try to contact the Indian Army or Government of India about us. We are 20 officers here. Don’t worry about me. Pay my regards to everybody at home, specially to mummy, grandfather – Indian government can contact Pakistan government for our freedom.” The then defence secretary confirmed the handwriting as Ashok’s and changed the official statement from “killed in action” to “missing in action”.``

The letter has been verified by handwriting excerpts. I have a copy of the letter, I have a copy of Maj Ghosh`s photograph published by Time Magazine, Copies of newspaer articles saying Tombay had been captured alive and witnesses who heard the announcements of the capture.

As I said, these men are kept separate, specially after 1975- maybe even killed or converted - But ehy were there. Maj Ayaaz Ahmed Sipra told Mohan lal Bhaskar that he had befriended a Gill of the Indian Air force and a Capt Singh of the Indian army in the fort of Attock when Maj Sipra was there facing charges for attempting to overthrow Bhutto. He also told him there were others there.

hindvi#49:

You may have a point. I had somehow missed ``the jail``, the definite article does suggest your interpretation. In any case, I hope Ms. Waraich or someone else who knows more details will elaborate on this.

To most human beings the following statement:

``Last year in October, there was an article in the papers that Khushi Mohammad, a resident of Malerkotla, who had been released from Kot Lakhpat jail of Pakistan had informed media persons that some Indian Army Captains who had been caught in 1971 by the Pakistan army were being held in captivity in the jail,’’ Khushi Mohammad, released from jail in October, had also given the name of a BSF constable Surjit Singh who was in the same jail with him. ``
would imply the captains were also in the same jail.

but since you have doubts and Waraich, who wrote this is here, she can explain. i request he to do so. i think her previous post was addressed to you since she refers to post #43 which is by u not by me.

waraich
I dont wish to hurt you, if what you say is true it is a most dastardly deed commited by Pakistan, but you did mention ``Pakistan announced their capture. Maj Suri sent 2 letters back``

could you post some evidence of Pakistan`s announcement of their capture or could you present the two letters writen by major suri to a major print or television media org. in India, they will certainly fund the forensic costs of examination if the indian government doesnot.

Also if possible download those letters on chowk.

regards

hindvi:

Contrary to what you think I did read the statement carefully. I do not blame you for assuming that he implied that the captain was in the same prison. Mr Khushi Mohammad specifically mentions about the BSF jawan being his prison mate but there is no similar explicit statement re. the Captain. What was his source about the captain is not stated in the excerpt. (Maybe you know more about this casefrom other sources).

Re. Suri, why do you doubt the Major`s father? Why would anyone else send a letter caliming to be his son?

Ms. Waraich#36:
Hindvi is an Indian.

Re: # 43
I understand that you are sceptical. there was a programme on Ndtv today and a Mr Bhandara- a Pakistan MP faced some of the families. he seemed like a sincere man and honestly didnt believe there could have been any soldiers kept back. he kept saying Musharraf has given an assurance that he would not keep soldiers.

But face facts now- Pakistan announced their capture. Maj Suri sent 2 letters back. Various men have mentioned seeing them but after Maj Suri`s letters noone met them directly- saw them or heard of them. They mention that they are kept separately. Asma Jehangir said when she met the families that most likely they would be kept separate- in the fort of Attock perhaps. Others say they are moved every few months.

Now Even if they are no longer there- Where did they go? Either they died in prison in Pakistan as they didnt return or are still languishing there. Their names were announced as having been captured alive so POWs they were. That is indisputable.

As per me it is ridiculous to ask us- the relatives to provide proof- the Pakistani govt announced their capture- it is the Indian govt`s fault it is so slack- it should insist these men are there and should be returned as a matter of priority or it should be laid out clearly where they went. If they died - How and when and return their remains. India too may have soldiers.of Pakistan. If so give us their names and details of capture.

It is not, as I said an India does not have but Pakistan has POWs issue. A colleague of mine said there was a chinese fellow in Ranchi Mental hospital who some believed may have been a POW. India is not sacrosanct. Ultimately people are the same everywhere. look at the US and the way they have treated POWs. We are all human. As Pakistanis you are in a better position to find out if there is anyone in the prisons there. If you can or know of someone who can help, it would be great.

``He remembered the BSF jawan`s name because he claims to have been in the same jail. He seems to be making no such claim about the captain, at least in this report. ``

read the extract you have posted carefully

``Last year in October, there was an article in the papers that Khushi Mohammad, a resident of Malerkotla, who had been released from Kot Lakhpat jail of Pakistan had informed media persons that some Indian Army Captains who had been caught in 1971 by the Pakistan army were being held in captivity in the jail,’’ Khushi Mohammad, released from jail in October, had also given the name of a BSF constable Surjit Singh who was in the same jail with him. ``

to anybody who comprehends english, the captain was in the same jail as him, even otherwise how would he, a prisoner, know what is going on in another jail.

``And what about the letter from Major Suri to his father? Was it also fake? ``

This is the only presentable evidence we have. If this letter really exists it can be easily verified by forensic and hand writing experts, to whom it should be taken wether of the Indian government or private ones. It can be even taken to any of the TV channels or major broadsheets or magazines, recently Zee TV ran a report on secret corespondence between Churchil and jinnah, Hindustan times has a long running cock and bull project on the sitings of Subhash chandra bose.

Not just rightes media orgs like india Today, zee, or TOI but every single major media org in India would give anything for such a sensationol story and piece of evidence. Major Suri`s relatives should immediately take it to any of them. But I suspect they know this better than me.

Last year someone was collecting money to help find those unfortunate soldiers. What happened to that? Or was that a case of making money on someone’s misfortune the Indian-Pak style?

There is no doubt that it is a grave situation for a family. Military families as it is live on edge during all the ups and downs in Indo-Pak relations. When we have cases of MIA, and closure is nowhere to be seen, the family needs as much sympathy as we can provide.

Warrich may not have enough evidence to go with in this case but whatever gives him/her hope should be pursued.

It is not hard to locate people in Pakistani jails. Most of the jails would provide the information and if these people were shunted around in several jails as Warriach claims, then the leak or info can come from several sources.
The civilian prison system in Pakistan is as bad as perhaps in India. There may be several people still alive who can provide info but it would require a little more effort then writing on chowk, which is perhaps mostly read by ex-pat Pakistan and Indians.
OTOH, if writing this story on chowk repeatedly helps the family emotionally then it is okay too.
Good luck in your search.

Let`s stick to the issue at hand. We can discuss those other issues and my purported stand on them again when the occasion arises.

``The pakistani govt. calls these 20 people over, and transfers the prisoner at the last moment, just to get a sadistic joy? they can not out right have lied that there was no body there? you have been watching too many bollywood films.``

This is precisely the kind of clever ploy that someone would do if they wanted to convince someone of their lies [you would have been on more solid footing if you had argued why they did not kill those prisoners and put an end to the story?] . Someone was certainly lying; either the Indian prisoner or the 20 Indian visitors or the Pakistani government, it is up to you to decide whom you trust more.

``so he can remember the name of the BSF constable but forgets the army captains name, or is it that there is no difference between a BSF jawan and a army captain?``

He remembered the BSF jawan`s name because he claims to have been in the same jail. He seems to be making no such claim about the captain, at least in this report.

And what about the letter from Major Suri to his father? Was it also fake?

``Last year in October, there was an article in the papers that Khushi Mohammad, a resident of Malerkotla, who had been released from Kot Lakhpat jail of Pakistan had informed media persons that some Indian Army Captains who had been caught in 1971 by the Pakistan army were being held in captivity in the jail,’’ Khushi Mohammad, released from jail in October, had also given the name of a BSF constable Surjit Singh who was in the same jail with him. ``

so he can remember the name of the BSF constable but forgets the army captains name, or is it that there is no difference between a BSF jawan and a army captain?

``Dr Suri’s son Major Ashok Suri wrote a letter stating that he was in a Karachi prison in 1975 along with 20 other officers and begging him to ask the Indian government to intervene and have them released.

In 1983, he along with Mr Gill (B/O Wg Cdr H S Gill) and others went to Pakistan at the invitation of the Pakistani government. Their hopes had soared briefly as Narasimha Rao told them, “ Go get our men back.” It was not to be. They reached Multan jail, were shown some Indians but no army personnel, but fishermen and their likes; one of the Indian prisoners murmured to the dejected visitors pointedly, ” Those who you have come for have already been removed from here. You wont find them here!````

The pakistani govt. calls these 20 people over, and transfers the prisoner at the last moment, just to get a sadistic joy? they can not out right have lied that there was no body there? you have been watching too many bollywood films.

But with your record of lies and obfuscatcation from recovery of muslims in the ``areas`` that constituted India, to political pampering of muslims being responsible for the rise of the BJP (which is a secular political party in your opinion) to your disdain of leftist historians and dissapointment at school history not talking about temple breaking while backslapping with Netizen about the sudden emergence of history regarding the wiping out of budhism by hinduism in preislamic India, you have a track record of subtly pushing soft hindutva thats hard to beat.

hindvi:

I never thought obfuscation was my strong point.

In any case, Indian govt. has been putting pressure on Pakistan. My knowledge on this issue is based mostly on what I have read on chowk. And I have read many pieces of evidence that have been presented on this issue. Farzana Versey, no stooge of Indian government wrote an article on this issue. Even on this board, several pieces of evidence have been mentioned. Here are excerpts from the current article:


Last year in October, there was an article in the papers that Khushi Mohammad, a resident of Malerkotla, who had been released from Kot Lakhpat jail of Pakistan had informed media persons that some Indian Army Captains who had been caught in 1971 by the Pakistan army were being held in captivity in the jail,’’ Khushi Mohammad, released from jail in October, had also given the name of a BSF constable Surjit Singh who was in the same jail with him.

Dr Suri’s son Major Ashok Suri wrote a letter stating that he was in a Karachi prison in 1975 along with 20 other officers and begging him to ask the Indian government to intervene and have them released.

In 1983, he along with Mr Gill (B/O Wg Cdr H S Gill) and others went to Pakistan at the invitation of the Pakistani government. Their hopes had soared briefly as Narasimha Rao told them, “ Go get our men back.” It was not to be. They reached Multan jail, were shown some Indians but no army personnel, but fishermen and their likes; one of the Indian prisoners murmured to the dejected visitors pointedly, ” Those who you have come for have already been removed from here. You wont find them here!``

Of course, it is your prerogative to call these people liars and Pakistani government the upholder of truth and integrity.

As usual dost mittar will try to obfuscate the issue, this is not the Gita, the quran, the after life or punar janam in which your trust of a certain party has to guide you, you could use your brains if you have any.

The indian army itself is not putting any pressure on this issue, and the army is not one to abandon its soldiers. In Kargil they brought back the corpses of their slain colleagues under the most withering fire, only when it was suicidal did they delay the process. One has to not only imagine almost all Pakistanis who came in any kind of contact with these POWs to be beasts, but also all Indian Army officers to be extraordinarily expedient and callous to not pressurise the goverment for the return of their comrades.

kaalchakra#36:

Whatever evidence is there, which has to be circumstantial under the circumstances, has been presented in various chowk articles; the rest is a question of who does one trust more, the Indians or the Pakistanis.

we can only talk in terms of probabilities and the probability that successive pakistani govts have managed to keep 54 prisoners in its prison system for over 30 years without letting the outside world know while they returned hundreds of other POWs is low. Miracles can always happen but then I am not among those who believe angels whisper in the ears of certain individuals or avtars descend on this world periodically or that people can achieve nirvana.

The other possibility that individuals can be carried away by strong emotions, hope and the power of self suggestion I believe is stronger.

Kaalchakra :``These things should be easy to settle.``

if they were easy to settle they would have been settle by now, these things are by their very nature impossible to conclusively settle, especially when a state is involved.

hindvi, Dost-Mittar

These things should be easy to settle. Can we collect all the information - circumstantial or otherwise - regarding the presence or absence of Indian POWs in Pakistan? Then we can derive our own individual (naturally biased) conclusions about whether there have been such prisoners or not.

dost mittar

yes this is circumstancial grounds, just like the fact that Bose`s personal secretary, (a muslim officer, i dont remeber his name) has repeatedly said that he saw him die but conspiracy theorists in india still are still citing him and searching for him.

khamkhwa
you wont get the point, even though I know where u want it, dont bother.

Re: # 27

...and your point is?

hindvi:

``Of that 7000 there isnt even a handful with conscience enough to come forward and reveal this gross injustice?

it is easy to have such a low opinion of the character of citizens of an enemy country but i dont believe all 7000 pakistanis who might have come in contact with them could have such a low conscience.``

Am I misreading your post or are you citing this as an evidence of support for the official Pakistani position that there are no such prisoners, since if there were any, one of those 7000 Pakistanis with conscience would have spoken about them?

hindvi

Yes, fake encounters happen in India. And that case was all over Indian newspapers. I hope the guilty were punished (but no one would surprised if no justice was done).

It wasnt just pankaj mishra, after that the DNA samples of the dead were sent to forensic labs in india for comparison with their relatives, the police authorities switched the samples before sending them to the labs but the idiots replaced male DNA with Female DNA, that is when the police and army (Rashtriya Rifles, i think) got caught.

All of this was highlighted in mainstream newspapers, HT, Indian-Express, Hindu et al, not just by Pankaj mishra.

Again, I don`t claim to understand people`s motivations.

To be fair to Pakistanis, there have appeared some articles in Pakistani press raising the issue of Indian POWs. They may not be on par with Pankaj Misra`s stuff. But the only thing certain about Pankaj Misra is that he writes well.

kaalchakra

bottom line is closure is difficult for those whose relatives are missing in action. This is a well documented fact in the US after each of the wars from WWII, to Korea and Vietnam. The Japanese media are still hopeful of finding soldiers from the Japanese Imperial army in the jungles of Borneo. POWs have been exchanged several times between India and Pak it doesnt make any sense that Pakistan would hand over some 100s of prisoners and keep 54 other.

khamkhwa

It`s better to talk about things that we would otherwise sweep under the rug. Both Hindvi and I are discussing the matter using whatever understanding we have.

What would anyone else expect us to do?

khamkhwa
``pakistan is in no position to accept that there are pows in it`s jails, having denied it repeatedly...the only recourse for you is to approach the un, human right groups and foreign powers...``

I Just hope all residents of pakistan are not like you, I know indians arent, we have all types here from HR orgs to leftists media who will highlight such an injustice irrespective of who commited it, else their is no hope for any prisnors in pakistani jails. Heck Pankaj Mishra did not even hesitate to expose the fake encounter of the ``Chattisinghpura massacre`` accussed who were all innocents, even in an insurgency affected state like Kashmir.

Re: # 25

Now we are talking out of common, aren`t we?

...this is a painful thread for those who are affected directly or indirectly... none of the interactors has provided any solution but as usual they are busy debating who is better...pakistan is in no position to accept that there are pows in it`s jails, having denied it repeatedly...the only recourse for you is to approach the un, human right groups and foreign powers...only when our tinpot dictator is kicked in the behind...some action for the better takes place...till next time...


....kaalchakra and hindvi....you two are pathetic...

you think 54 POWs in jail for 33 years does not have commercial value? have u heard of ``Survivor``?

Re: # 22

I don`t think you read the last sentence.
``If truth has commercial value, it will surface else it will remain.........``

Press/media comes later.

Hindvi

My view is that we should not think that all others would not behave so and so just because we ourselves would not, or because we find certain behaviors insane or ridiculously grotesque. You and I will not kill a child in cold blood. But people do. You and I will never plant bombs in bus loads of human beings, but people happily do. There are even `humans` who sacrifice their children for religious purposes. The examples are almost infinite in number. We may believe none of that, but that changes nothing.

If your point is that people should actually do much more than just write articles on Chowk (or elsewhere), I agree. They may be doing that aleady, or should be doing.

Kalihawa
have you heard of the press?, of the foreign media? of private TV channels? of letters to the Indian media, or do u think somebody who sees such an injustice will go and report it only to the govt? and we are not talking about a handful of interactors here.

All countries are run by clerks. Quality of service comes from evolution of institutions that are public-government interfaces. Neither Indian nor Pakistani institutions have evolved to a level where aam aadmi`s first reaction to government interface is not ‘fear’. Therefore it is useless to talk about how many people have knowledge of those prisoners. If somebody even provided such information to some government agency it would have been dumped into the dustbin like Satyendranath Dube’s letter to India’s PMO. Once he was killed then only we came to know about that letter. If truth has commercial value, it will surface else it will remain buried under files.

see kaalchakra nothing can be ruled out in this world but it is hard to believe that over 33 year of the thousands of people the 54 missing in action (POWs are those that are confirmed to have survived) came into contact with not even a hand ful revealed their details to the press or the public, even when each of those 54 would be striving to get information out themselves. and remember of these 33 years Pakistan had democracy for atleast 17.

Still nothing can be ruled out, but what i dont understand is why would somebody keep writing articles on chowk under such conditions and not physically investigate the matter themselves, it isnt diffcult you know if you are sufficiently motivated.

And personally I cannot think of a greater motive than to help find a parent who has been wrongefully incarcerated for 33 years.

Hindvi

Clearly, people who have kept Bin Laden hidden don`t think like you and I do. And people can exist without anyone announcing their presence.

so you think each of those 54 has the kind of support for his incarceration that Bin Laden has for his fredoom? even assuming bin Laden has been hiding in afghansistan, you think he has been in contact with thousands of people over the past 4 years?

Hindvi

Few of us meet 7000 people directly. That doesn`t mean we won`t be caught were we to hide as outlaws and word was out for our capture.

Bin Laden could be in Afghanistan for all we know. But he meets people.

kaalchakra

Bin Ladin is not kept in Pakistani Govt facilities or Jails. And i doubt he has been in contact with even 700, leave aside 7000, odd pakistanis, if he had then one or the other would him sold him out by now.

Hindvi

We can`t assume that low conscience and high conscience mean the same for everybody.

Bin Laden and his fellow terrorists have been living somewhere for a very long time. He isn`t the size of a mouse (except in morals) that none would see him. He is supposed to have received medical treatments, guests, marry family members, and so on and so forth.

But no-one has come forward to announce his presence.

Re: # 13
I see what you`re trying to say, but what would that achieve, except that she herself would be caught and hanged as a spy?

i dont know about you but if I suspected my father was rotting away in a foreign jail for the past 33 years I wonty be writing article after article on chowk. I would rather go to the country even if it was in siberia and try locating him or die trying.

Families of soldiers missing in action hold onto dreams that they may have survived even fatal air crashes etc for years on end we know this is well known in the US after every conflict from WWII, to Korea to Vietnam. That is the nature of filial bonds. Families launch expeditions and personal searches for their loved ones.

In this case it shouldnt be difficult at all if there are 54 such prisoners and at an average each prisoner came in contact with only 4/5 different people each year that means the 54 came in touch with 200-250 people. Over 33 years that figure touches 7000.

Of that 7000 there isnt even a handful with conscience enough to come forward and reveal this gross injustice?

it is easy to have such a low opinion of the character of citizens of an enemy country but i dont believe all 7000 pakistanis who might have come in contact with them could have such a low conscience.

Hello Simmi, you know you`re not going to get a lot of answers here. I thought of you when I read about Sarabjit Singh, and that in an awful way, at least his family will have closure, no matter what.
I think it`s easy for people who know nothing about you or your life to say stop torturing yourself of how dare you blame Pakistan. We`re talking about one individual family here, but it must of course degenerate into tu-tu main-mains (no English translation for that because we do it so well.)
I think we will know the answer one day. Even the families of victims of the East German secret service and General Pinochet know now what happened, and those were not even POWs. You and I will be old women, but we will know the answer in our lifetimes. Keep trying...and keep being so brave.

kaalchakra:

There are several hundred Pakistanis rotting in Indian jails, many of whom may be quite innocent, such as fishermen. But I have not read about any of them being a soldier. Maybe someone can correct me if I am not well-informed.

``Pakistan lost the war and was able to secure the release of all its prisoners, India won the war and has not been able to secure the release of its few prisoners.``

If true, then it is absolutely amazing.

Something must be deeply, fundamentally, indescribably wrong with us as a people.

So wrong that I can`t believe it. We must be holding SOME Pakistani soldiers about whom Pakistani families have been asking for decades. Aren`t we?

reply to 3 and 4

I am talking of soldiers- Indian army officers and men who were captured alive during the 1971 war- I know there are a number of civilians who are languishing needlessly on both sides of the border and I would be happy to see them released. I dont beleive in nations or wars but they happen, so one has to accept. I also accept that people die in wars. I am just saying that the Pakistanis themselves announced the capture of these men. As per all international conventions it is upto themnow to tell us what happened to these men.

I am just trying to get information on that and have them released. General MuSharraf is a soldier. he would tell you it is every soldier`s right to be sent back to his country after war ends and to send back his remains if he dies. This is not a ``how dare you blame pakistan issue``- things happen, have happened- now let`s resolve it and put it behind us. Whose urns are lying in Kot Lakhpat? Are any of these soldiers still alive?

I am sorry but there is no reason to be optimistic. After having denied their presence in Pakistani jails for such a long time, the Pakistani government cannot now admit to their presence there even if they are alive.

It is no use pointing fingers now but the blame rests squarely on Indian leaders; Pakistan lost the war and was able to secure the release of all its prisoners, India won the war and has not been able to secure the release of its few prisoners. Shame on such victory!

Oooops, Sarabjit Singh is/was not a soldier. So his release cannot be requested on that basis.

But if there are soldiers held captive for decades in each other`s countries, then those need to be immediately released.

Are there any Pakistani soldiers locked up for two decades in Indian jails. If there are, then India should first release them, and then ask for Sarabjit Singh`s release.

If there are none, then omar quraishi`s # 4 and mohammed majed`s # 3 are in extremely bad taste.

Warraich stop torturing yourself and do something.

Get yourself a canadian or australian passport, avoid revealing your place of birth and go to Pakistan yourself. You have a punjabi muslim name and can probably speak passable urdu and punjabi, though I am sure english will open more doors for you in Pakistan. Go there yourself and take help from fellow chowkies and human rights activists. track your father or any one of the other 54 you think are their. If they are they wil be able to tell you about the rest.

This is what i would do if I thought my father was locked up in a prison in Pakistan.

this is by seemi warraich right? sorry to sound so jingoist -- and this probably applies more to the bear of chowk, shri veeresh jee (who the last time this article was posted made it out that pakistan was not being nice to india in this matter) -- but the fact is that there are according to official figures over 600 pakistanis in indian jails as well -- and the number for india is not 54 but 576 --

This is from Dawn, August 27, 2005


Pakistan, India urged to take steps for prisoners’ release


By Our Reporter

ISLAMABAD, Aug 26: The Senate standing committee on foreign affairs on Friday urged both Islamabad and New Delhi to take adequate measures for unconditional and immediate release of Pakistani prisoners in Indian jails and Indians in Pakistani prisons.

It also demanded consular access to the Pakistani prisoners in India.

The committee was informed that the issue of Pakistani and Indian prisoners in each other’s countries had been included in the agenda of talks between their interior, secretaries scheduled for Aug 28 in New Delhi.

Foreign Affairs Secretary Riaz Mohammad Khan told the committee led by Senator Mushahid Hussain Sayed that the interior secretary had been directed to take up the issue with his Indian counterpart and India had agreed to discuss it.

The foreign secretary said there were 611 Pakistanis in Indian jails, including 52 fishermen.

He said the national status of 173 of the prisoners had been confirmed after verification while the identification of 178 was in process.

He said the government had been trying to get consular access to 208 Pakistani prisoners but it was awaiting response from the Indian side.

He said there were 576 Indians in Pakistani jails.

He said the progress made on the issue in the talks would be discussed in the meeting of foreign secretaries of both the countries in Islamabad next week with progress on other confidence-building measures during the past year.

He said relations between the two countries had been improving gradually and he hoped that the issue of prisoners would become a part of confidence-building measures between them.

The secretary said verification of the identities of the prisoners in Indian jails was a difficult process because relatives of those without documents were reluctant to provide information about them.

He said the government had decided to simplify the procedure of identification so that the prisoners without proper documents could be released as early as possible.

The official said all the embassies had been direc