Pipe Dreams?

Long before there was any modern civilization there were trade routes through Central Asia to the Indian subcontinent on one side and China beyond it and to Europe on the other side. The pipeline suggestion makes immense sense because it is a source of cheap natural gas which India needs for it`s growing economy. If it helps build good relations with Pakistan then it is all the more neccessary for both countries.

In the long term it is shared economic interests that would help both countries come closer together instead of anything else.

re: this pipeline issue
The following articles are relevant with regards to the pipeline issue:

http://www.sulekha.com/news/nhc.aspx?cid=433817
(Pakistan and India Friday agreed to finalise a tripartite framework agreement on the multi billion-dollar Iran-Pakistan-India (IPI) gas pipeline project by the end of this year.

The secretaries for petroleum of Pakistan and India, Ahmed Waqar and Sushil Chand Tripathy respectively, announced this while addressing a joint press briefing at the end of the second Pakistan-India Joint Working Group (JWG) meeting here. )


http://www.sulekha.com/news/nhc.aspx?cid=433806
(He said he supported the administration`s policy (toward India) but believed the administration would have to make a maximum effort for which ``we offer, at least some of us offer our services to help you make the Indians aware of the fact that nothing will fly in this body unless they become as sensitive to their concerns as we have been to theirs.``

Lantos said he found Natwar Singh`s reported statement in Iran -- ``literally sickening, this Stalinist rhetoric which we don`t accept from the Indian foreign minister.``

Singh is reported to have said during his meeting with the new Iranian president that India `supports the resolution of Iran`s nuclear issue within the IAEA (International Atomic Energy Agency)framework but opposes sending the file to the UN Security Council.` )

So, India is supporting Iran in its nuclear venture. This is sad and stupid. What else can u expect from a nutcase like Natwar Singh, brought up on the diet of licking the Nehru family A$$. The guy is a serious menace to India and is putting back all the progress achieved by Jaswant Singh and others wrt Indo-US relations.
NOw, if India is also seriously considering the pipeline issue, which US clearly does not support, we can only see Indo-US relations plummet down. Israeli lobby is too powerful and will block every move to pass the nuclear cooperation agenda of Bush admin if the lobby feels India is not flexible on the Iran issue. The new diplomatic contacts between Israel and Pak only complicates matters for India.
Sridhar

re: Aarya Nijat

++
United States opposition to the pipeline and Iran’s opposite strict stance, has not however, deterred India from proceeding with the Pipeline. And it should not deter Pakistan also. The pipeline is quite attractive as an incentive for reconciliation between India and Pakistan
++

The Pakistanis are already talking to the Indians and Iranians about IPI proposal, despite US opposition. Simultaneously Pakistan is open to TAP proposal as well. If IPI can strengthen Pakistan`s relationship with Iran and India, TAP can bring Afghanistan and Turkmenistan closer to Pakistan.

From Pakistan`s POV, the following issues are relevant:

a) Time factor. If TAP can meet Pakistan`s energy requirements sooner than IPI, Pakistan wouldn`t mind paying the higher $1.25 tariff. It`s just $0.50 more than IPI tariff. And besides expensive energy is still better than no energy.

b) Local Employment potential. If TAP provides more employment opportunities to Pakistanis, then it is a better option than IPI.

Are there any comparative studies in the public domain addressing these issues?

re:#76 by Netizen
I hope the sarcasem of my post was not lost on this Haideri dude, who has lost most of his brain cells rocking in front of the book.
BTW, i look exactly opposite to what he described in his post. Not that it matters. As u rightly said, looks do not define a person, a pearl lost on most of these people from across the border.
Sridhar

Re: # 74

`, did i not tell u to keep rocking? BTW, how did u guess i look so ugly?``

this is a general perception among pakis. that they are fair-skinned, strong faithfuls and hindus are dark, dimunitive, daal-roti eating infidels. Its beyond their grasp that a person features doesn`t define his personality.
Can you imagine this haideris attitude towards blacks?

Haideri dude,
even if i am an ``ugly`` hindu, I won`t turn into a fair-skinned/blonde if I too start rocking infront of the book. our features comes from genetics/natures selection not from the religion we follow.

re:#73 by suresh492
Gas pipeline is a disaster for India. As i have already said, we need to measure Pak`s intentions by its actions. ISI continues to be active in much of India, training terrorists. Pak is hiding a murder who did immense damage to India (i am talking about Dawood). Pak continues to train terrorists who are being caught all over the world. So, what has changed? Nothing.
Sridhar

re:#72 by haideri
Gosh! I am not mad at u. As far as i am concerned, u do not exist. Now, did i not tell u to keep rocking? BTW, how did u guess i look so ugly? Must be something to do with so much rocking in front of an outdated book.
Sridhar

Respected Aarya Nijat (Editor)

CC to Hiaderi, Imtiaz, Haideri, Farrikh, Sridhar, Arjun and others

An Indian Official was telling the STAR PLUS media personnal some days ago, Leave the Gas pipeline, The Pakistanis don’t even allow our biscuits to be transported to war ravaged Afghanistan, As a result the biscuits have to be transported via Iran, thereby making a very costly exercise. There were talks about the India-Iran gas pipeline during the Benazir era that is 2 decades ago. Till now there are only talks,talks and talks about the gas pipeline. Last but not the least, there are thousand of attacks on the harmless Gas pipelines in Baluchistan. In that cases what about the losses the Indians will have to incur on account of disruption of Gas flow. Will the Pakistanis compensate the losses suffered by us.?

A warm and a prompt reply will be highly appreciated

Suresh Shenoy – Bombay.

Re #68

rsridhar,

Why are you so mad? Is it my fault that you are ugly? Why don`t you ask your Shiv God and worship his penis a little more. Do me a favor remove all the mirrors from your home. It may sooth your brain a little.

haideri

Re: # 70

We have comunists who sided with China during war, still being `leaders`.
We have the Muslim League still contesting elections. (Is there a congress in pakistan ?)
We got spineless politicians allowing Muslim Bangladeshis into India in hordes.

This is India :(

My fingers are crossed about the future.

regards,
SN

Re: # 67

``Mani Shankar Iyer is an idiot. ``

he is the ex-cheerleader for the chinese communists. In his college days he was collecting funds for china during 1962 war.
i am surprised a person who was collecting funds for an enemy nation is a union minister now

Re: # 61

i do think islam is the fastest growing religion. Not because of converts but because of the population growth rate. The fertility rate of muslims is the highest world over. Just look at the % growth in muslim countries. even in india muslims have the highest rate.

re:#60 by haideri
You are a typical Paki moron. Now, go to your seat and rock in front of the book that u guys think is holy until you rot away rest of your brain. You need to finish the job u started.
Sridhar

#59 by ranjit
Mani Shankar Iyer is an idiot. He is a madrassi married to a Punjabi. The guy is having a pipedream if he thinks US will allow gas pipeline to go through.
Sridhar

re:#41 by Faruk
What i am basically saying is that India should be self-reliant on energy. It is O.K to import some gas from outside. But India should not depend on Pak for long term needs. Pak has never done anything that suggests its basic animosity towards India has changed. Just look at the denial of transit facility! This is a simple thing. The other thing is denying that the criminal Dawood Ibrahim even lives in Pak!
These things make me feel Pak can never be India`s friend. It is stupid to invest huge money in this pipeline when India recently made a breakthrough in using thorium for its energy needs. India needs to build cheap nuclear reactors with US help and utilise thorium for its energy needs. It will take time but it is better to be self reliant than be dependent on others for vital energy needs.
Sridhar

re:#26 by Imtiaz84
Afghanistan is not a disputed territorry. Why does Paki dictator not allow transit facitlities for India thr` Pak to transport good to Afghanistan. Your ``so called PM`` is gone on record saying this will happen only if K word is solved.
Sridhar

re:#21 by Imtiaz84
``Pakistan has gone much a head with its sophiticated technologies the result of which you all witnessed in shape of Cruise Missel Test.``
This kind of moronic talk is perhaps the norm in Pak. But the realities are different. Yes, china has been very supportive in giving such technology that Pak can only dream of fabricating at its factories. After all, a country that does not produce even 100 PhDs of repute cannot think of producing cruise missile on its own. But it can and does get such technology from outside and pass it off as its own.
Sridhar

re:#21 by Imtiaz84
Bangladesh recently Okayed a trilateral deal with India and Myanmar to transport gas from latter to India. Bangaldesh is likely to join in later. Now, this is a win-win situation.
Sridhar

#60 sigh

hinduism (sanatana dharma) is NOT a religion in the judaeo-christian-islamic sense... Hence there is no formal mechanism to get converted ... similarly, if you are born into hinduism (which actually as a term is of recent vintage), there is nothing you can do to get excommunicated.. there is no such thing. Theological beliefs are a secondary aspect of hindu traditions; hence there is a large diversity of such beliefs and even accomodates atheists. Historical events, which are crucial in JCI religions, also have little importance.

there are lots of people who actually follow the tenets of sanatana dharma but are not ``official`` hindus due to an accident of birth. About a million (mostly white) americans fall in this implicit category (taking interest in yoga, vedic literature, meditation, interest in vegetarianism etc.). I know quite a few muslims who fall in this category (Indian President Abdul Kalam is one such). Likewise there are plenty of born hindus who dont have any interest in any of the above but remain nominal hindus to varying degrees depending on their exposure to various cultural traditions.

references

Dharma FAQ     Essentials     Myth of Hindu sameness

Re: # 60

I thought the West is where ``largest number of conversions`` happening - the unhappy white people in europe and US are converting in droves to Islam, ``the religion of peace``....

Atleast that`s what pakis claim - Islam has become ``fastest growing`` religion in world because of that.

India has the largest number of conversions in the world i.e from hindu to Christian/Muslim. When was the last time you saw anybody converting to hinduism? hinduism is a religon full of social injustice. Dalits are abandoning their religon in thousands everyday due to the ill treatement they face everyday.

haideri

India has significant energy reserves in the Northeast and elsewhere that have not been tapped properly. Nuclear power is a cheap source of clean energy throughout India. Also, I think India should strongly support hybrid technology in cars and indigenize that technology as soon as possible. Given India`s population and driving conditions, small hybrids are perfect for it. Also it can immensely cut down gasoline consumption.

This pipeline nonsense is happening only because of that fool Mani Shankar Aiyar. That guy was born in Lahore so he thinks that the Pakistanis love him. He is selling away India`s economic future by giving the Pakistanis a tool to control us at their whim. If we need to import gas/oil, we should look at the pipeline from Central Asia that will go to China and see if we can jump on board that pipeline.

A liitle something I found today. Enjoy:
http://dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_7-9-2005_pg3_2

The trouble begins with our obsessive love for our religion that ends up distorting all our thinking. The fact is that it is not the followers of other religions that hate us, but we Muslims who hate the followers of other religions. And we do so because we hate them for their power and their success

Re: # 56
Hey Haideri.
Of the 2 kinds of worships you mentioned - do you believe if one is ok the other is ok too ?

regards,
SN

Hey wiseguy,

I just read you ilog.

``What the **** is wrong with muslims ?
how can i as a person even imagine following a Paedophile ? ``

But it is ok for you guys to worship Shiva Jeez Urethra?

curious haideri

Re: # 54
>> So why don`t you?
I think they don`t want to embarass us by losing again :)

hehe , I bet the great Pakis tell/regale each other with stories of how they have defeated India. In every sphere.
They have defeated us in governance, education, technology, all development indices and, of course, all wars too.
And how their new religion is better then the previous infidel version (It was beta in any case).
version 3.0 is the latest and greatest.
version 1.0 (Judaism) has become a virus now.
version 2.0 (Christianity) has crashed completely.

There is no version 4.0 coming.

regards,
SN

Re: # 51

So why don`t you?

;-)

Re: # 49

What I mean is you will certainly try. Of that we are certain. However, whether you will succeed or not is the question.

Some points to ponder for you....

The vaunted Pakistan Air Force can bomb the Infosys campus in Bangalore or the Bhakara Nangal dam in Punjab. Why don`t they?

The Pakistan Army which is made up of tall, fair, accent less English speaking martial races with genius level IQs can walk over and crush all the short, dark, rice-eating baniyas and ``Confused Brahmins`` with their left hands tied behind their backs. Why don`t they?

Re: # 48
>> .... INDIAN OPPRESSED KASHMIR
How I wish this were indeed the case. Sigh ;)

- SN

It is in strategic interest of Pakistan not let India have access to cheaper oil. That will give Indian products a competitive edge. Pakistan should manipulate this situation and put a pipeline from Iran to supply to China, instead. Yes, China has an option to buy from Central Asia, but this is the price they have to pay to have competitive edge over India.

#48 by Urstruly on September 6, 2005 1:08pm PT


Nice map. But is there a guarantee that Pak navy submarines will not conduct their first strike on this pipeline in case a war is broke out for the liberation of Indian Oppressed kashmir.


Yes...you can be sure that the paki navy will never go to war as long as Uncle Sam is holding the strings of your dictator...

in any case, i don`t think your armed forces have the testicular fortitude to go to war to liberate Indian occupied Kashmir...

Re: # 48

We would expect nothing less. I am glad we understand each other.

Re: # 46

Nice map. But is there a guarantee that Pak navy submarines will not conduct their first strike on this pipeline in case a war is broke out for the liberation of Indian Oppressed kashmir.

Faruk,

The pakis have not learnt their lesson. Only when the paki society realiizes
that India is superior and has won the hot-war.intellectual war and economic
war will there be peace. Pakis think that this is just a temporary
adjustment - notice how Musharraf always refers to `Hudaibiya` etc.

Even on this list, the self styled `liberal` pretenders like tahmed, temporal etc
have been found to be closet mullahs.

Faruk,

You may find this hard to believe, but I have no desire to wish Ill for Pakistan. I hope they prosper and do well. I just want to have nothing to do with them that is all. I have no problem trading with them. Or having sporting or cultural links with them. But I will draw the line at handing them any kind of control over our energy supply.

I for one don`t have the time for our neighbours to evolve. I refuse to be held hostage to their irredentism. I think India should take a pragmatic point of view and go on ahead without them. After all, it all boils down to a trust issue. India frankly would not be able to trust this country any time soon given the decades of anti-India brainwashing that has been systamatically been carried out in this country. At this point, I would rather feel extremely uncomfortable allowing them to earn $300 Million transit fees which I know would directly go towards funding anti-India activities.

Here is some info regarding this that was collected/composed by user ``Peregrine`` in another forum. In 1994, the total project cost was $6 Billion which included spurs to Iran, Iraq, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.

---

``>Oman India Pipeline Project



Oman to India Pipeline Route Project
Project Description:

The proposed 1,100 km gas transmission pipeline extending from Oman to India across the Arabian Sea reaches water depths 3,500 m and crosses rugged shelf breaks on both the Indian and Oman side. A US $12 million program consisting of desk study, marine survey, data reduction and route optimisation was performed under the direction of INTEC to identify and evaluate a feasible pipeline route and alignment. In concert with the use of ultra deepwater acoustic technology, a number of specialized geo-technical and geophysical tests were performed. These included embedment tests, deepwater coring by ROV, local dredging tests by ROV and video mapping of the shelf breaks on both sides of the route. The baseline desk study was performed in 1994 and provided data valuable to the planning of the detailed route survey. In April 1994, a reconnaissance survey was performed using swath techniques to provide a side-scan mosaic of a 5 km wide corridor. The Oman landfall proved to be too irregular for the pipeline and an extensive regional survey was required before a landfall could be designated.

The route crosses the Murray Ridge/ Owen Fracture zone, but by traversing to the south of the most rugged sections, a suitable alignment was achieved. In 1995, the detailed route survey was completed which provided detailed bathymetry along a 1 km wide corridor. Deepwater coring was conducted in 1994, which resulted in the recovery of 209 cores that were subsequently laboratory tested for engineering parameters. To complete the route validation, span analysis and the risk of geo-technical hazards were quantified along the entire route.

Scope of Services:

INTEC work scope consisted of preparation of the desk study, survey specifications, survey bid preparation, evaluation of bidders overall survey supervision, management of subcontractors and selection of the route. Because of the overall length, this survey took place over a two-year period and included several mobilizations and demobilizations of personnel, vessels and equipment. INTEC also had full responsibility for logistics coordination and schedule maintenance of this program.

REFERENCES:
http://www.intec-hou.com
http://www.jpkenny.com
http://www.wassoc.com
http://www.wassoc.com/projects/oman/large/oman.html

As you are aware Saipem (Part owned by ENI)-Gazprom has built the undersea Blue Water Pipe Line. ENI has one 50 to 55,000 DWT Pipe Laying Vessel. The Intec Organization has TWO. No sir this is not a Hindi Movie synopsis. It is true.

Here is the ENI Link :

http://www.eni.it

Please check on Saipem 7,000 and Bluestream under the Operation and Strategies Heading -ENI Main Projects – Bluestream - Saipem

Now to a Deep Sea Long Distance Electric Transmission Line (if it is possible) : It should be much cheaper to lay this Transmission Line as the project would require a much smaller “Laying” Vessel” maybe a size of 20,000 DWT. As you are aware there are already Deep Sea “Communication Fibre Optic” Cables from the West Coast of India (I think the land fall is near Mumbai) to Oman and an Electric Transmission Line although heavier than a Fibre Optic Line will be a fraction – in weight terms – of a Natural Gas Deep Sea Pipe Line. As an example the Saipem 7000 semi-submersible crane vessel has the capacity to handle heavy lift operations up to 14,000 tons.

---

#41 by Faruk on September 6, 2005 11:32am PT

I`m all for trade...you`re preaching to the choir here.. It`s not enough for India to be interested in trade.. It`s the pakis who keep saying they won`t trade before they get Kashmir on a platter...not just that, they make it seem like they`ll be doing India a huge favor by trading with it only if India were to hand over Indian Kashmir....

Faruk,
Which International banks do you think would risk being blacklisted by th US? I fear that ultimately GOI may put pressure on some Indian banks to finance it, which could be disasterous for our long term security situation.

Plus, Pakistan seems to have a hard time protecting their own pipelines from waring tribals, how would they guarrantee uninterupted supply to us.

#36 by Imtiaz84 on September 6, 2005 8:58am PT


Oh the pepople of so called world`s biggest democracy , let the democracy be prevail in Kashmir.


It has prevailed in Kashmir...A majority of Indians think Indian Kashmir should be part of India...and so it is..

Come to think of it..a majority of pakis think a part of Kashmir should be gifted to China and so that`s how it was...

Re: # 41

i agree. hopefully something will come out benefitting everyone.

Re: arjun_m, rshridhar, satyamvada, coolAl, harish_hyd
I think the pipeline makes a lot of sense. It’s a 7.4 billion dollars project that will have to be funded by international banks. All the countries involved (Iran, Pakistan and India) will borrow money to fund their part of the pipeline. India is not going to fund the entire project.
Energy security that you all have mentioned is something India has to develop, with alternative energy resources like rshridhar mentioned. It’s not dependent on just gas. But we need the gas for our growing needs.
The other point being raised is that Pakistan is not a reliable business partner. This is an issue the Pakistani govt. is willing to address in the form of guarantees. Apart from that it’s better for India if more Pakistani’s have a stake in peace with India.

Regards,

Faruk

Re: # 30

What we ``Hindus`` don`t have is Djinn power. That, I believe is purely YOUR domain....

Since Pakistanis have access to this cheap and inexhaustible source of energy, why do you need a pipeline?

Re: # 36

Mr. Imitiaz,
I am really disappointed by you. I thouhgt that now this is a reformed paki who thinks , beyond K-word, about engaging in other wordly important matters.
But here you go, kashmir ..... democracy ........ azadi ........ occupation ..........army in kashmir......

Mr. Hamidm,
What do you say now? Indians were jsut expressing the ground reality. The blueprint of the pipeline is not even printed and our abdul is already going ballistic about his kashmiri brothers and their watches.

Re: # 34

we just pity them. they were the weaklings of the community.

Re: # 20

I am not the person who paints all Indians to be ``Hindus``. It is Mr. Goatbrain here. I thought that it would be easier for him to understand the situation better if I spoke to him in the language that he understands....

Oh the pepople of so called world`s biggest democracy , let the democracy be prevail in Kashmir.Let the people of Occupied Kashmir decide their futur.Please hear the voice of majority in the Kashmir.Please check the time at the watch of ordinary Kashmiri, does`nt it Pakistan standard time.By the way why do you need so mcuh of army in Kashmir?The freedom movemnt in the Kashmir is ideginious .You must agree.

Re: # 34
>> Millions of of your Rajput brothers and sisters are Muslim now ...
Right. Not only that, millions of my Brahmin, Kayastha, Shudra and other brothers & sisters are
Muslims now. Gotta see how to help them out of that quagmire :)
[Though, admittedly, help wud be coming couple of centuries too late].

>> My ancestors must have done something right ;)
Okay , I think I can be pretty nasty here :)
But then the conversation will quickly go back to the Big-P of your cult, so I will refrain.

regards,
SN

RE #32

Millions of of your Rajput brothers and sisters are Muslim now and they live on both sides of the border. My ancestors must have done something right ;)

haideri

Re: # 27

``If you are a light skined Brahman then you have our blood running in your veins ;) ``

thanks god, Brahmans didn`t inherit Persian/Turk grey mater ...

Re: # 27
>> Most of the rulers who ruled you guys for 500 years had either Persian or Turkish
ancestory.
Agreed. Many of those who ruled from Delhi had Persian/Turkish ancestory. By the way some of that lineage is today doing exceptionally well in the streets of Old Delhi these days. Now I know where the fair kabariwallahs in Delhi come from ;)

>> Are you a confused Brahman?
Neither confused, nor Brahmin. Rajput. Last name stands for Negi.

>> If you are a light skined Brahman then you have our blood running in your veins ;)
No, I am blessed that my ancestors escaped that fate :)
Or I would have been - gasp - one of you :o

:)
regards,
SN

Re: # 26

``Kashmir is disputed you know it we know it.What it has to do with pipeline?``

It has a lot to do with the pipeline. paks obession with kashmir has caused 3/4 fights with india.

``The ordinary man need bread and cloth.It is the people like you with their thinking creat problems.``

i don`t think indian gov is going to decide over the pipeline thinking about providing bread and cloth to an ordinary man. It will look at the cost of gas, its viability/feasibility, just like a businessman would look at his business interest.
Would you invest in Somalia Bonds, in which case you may lose your investment but the somali people would benefit from it?


``We are supposed to change.Try to think beyod your dogmas.``

thats exactly we also want. Lets make LoC the International Boundary. Agree?

See what I meant......Indians already have lots and lots of gas....throw in a little spark and everything blows.

#26 by Imtiaz84 on September 6, 2005 7:52am PT


Kashmir is disputed you know it we know it.


India isn`t going to give up Indian Kashmir and nothing can change that...you know it and we know it


What it has to do with pipeline?The ordinary man need bread and cloth.


It has everything to do with the pipeline...YOUR PM said there can be no trade normalization until there is a solution to the Kashmir dispute(which you know and I know means India handing over Indian Kashmir to Pakistan)...


PM links transit trade with India to Kashmir solution
Shaukat says UN reforms being discussed with New Delhi; gas policy on
Iran pipeline next week; new dams soon after deliberations on tech report
By our correspondent
Tuesday August 30, 2005, LAHORE: Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz has said Pakistan would only open the door to transit trade for India if the neighbouring country made progress on the core issue of Jammu and Kashmir.

Re: # 26
Deer Imtiaj.
We have news four you. We Hinoods have dezided to become bery much like your great
Muzlim cuntry. Be are bery impressed by your great Islamic vigor. That is by we are shedding off a little bit of the shanti powder off our body these days. That is also by you are
dismayed by the little spine that our sarkar sometimes shows.
You are the one who linked Kashmir with eberything else, excebt the pipeline. Be are just
extending that principle to cover the bibeline alzo.

By the way, we have already displayed our openness by selling you food and livestock.
Your turn now.

regards,
SN

RE #18


Most of the rulers who ruled you guys for 500 years had either Persian or Turkish
ancestory.

Are you a confused Brahman? If you are a light skined Brahman then you have our blood running in your veins ;)

haideri

Again that typical stupid thiniking of an ordinary indain is depicted by Mr.Arjun.All rubbish.Kashmir is disputed you know it we know it.What it has to do with pipeline?The ordinary man need bread and cloth.It is the people like you with their thinking creat problems.Try to be open. See the world is changing.We are supposed to change.Try to think beyod your dogmas.

maulana urstruly... wassup wit dis?.. I thought the party line was no trade before Indian Kashmir is delivered to Pakistan on a platter....

Steel producers order import of $102m equipment from India

* Seek approval for new plant with Indian technology

By Imran Ayub

KARACHI: The country’s steel production units have placed orders to import $102 million equipment from India and are now due to meet authorities in Islamabad seeking the nod to set up new plants with Indian technology.

A 16-member Pakistani delegation, representing different steel re-rolling mills and production companies, has recently returned from India and now plans to meet highups in the industry and commerce ministries, in a bid to get support for co-operation with the Indian industry.

“In India we have signed an MoU (memoranda of understanding) to make imports from there,” said Jawed Mughal of Mughal Steel, one of the seven companies, which would import equipment for their steel production plants.

#21 by Imtiaz84 on September 6, 2005 7:36am PT


This pipe line is critical for the development of the region, prosperity of the layman who is now suffering from the rise in the oil prices. As well mentioned in the article the comments of the Priminister of Pakistan


Your PM said there can be no trade normalization until the core issue is resolved...which we all know is the code word for the paki wet dream of getting Indian Kashmir.... so why the pipeline deal now?



Otherwise , you all know Pakistan and India are on equal footings when it comes to nuclear aersnal.


Yup...Each country can nuke the other country...so there isn`t going to be a resolution of the core issue any time soon...


I think, Pakistan has gone much a head with its sophiticated technologies the result of which you all witnessed in shape of Cruise Missel Test.


ahead why? because it has a longer range? the indian cruise missile is 3x supersonic...you knew that, right?

Dear Indians,

I am quite suprised by all you write in relation to the pipe line issue.Please put all your differences in some safe place under tight lock and key.This pipe line is critical for the development of the region, prosperity of the layman who is now suffering from the rise in the oil prices. As well mentioned in the article the comments of the Priminister of Pakistan , this pipe line is a win-win situation for both countries as well as for Iran.People of both countries need it. This will make their life comfortable. Stop passing the comments which hurt feeling of others.This will only guarantee us the peace in the region.Otherwise , you all know Pakistan and India are on equal footings when it comes to nuclear aersnal.I think, Pakistan has gone much a head with its sophiticated technologies the result of which you all witnessed in shape of Cruise Missel Test.

Rgds

An ordinary Pakistani

maulana urstruly..i`m sure some indian hospital can do a brain surgery on you...shouldn`t be hard to find a matching donor...lots of goats running around the country....

47 Pak children availed free heart surgery in India

September 06, 2005 03:39 IST

Parents of 47 Pakistani children have so far availed free treatment facility offered by the Indian government to carry out heart surgeries on their wards, the Indian High Commission in Islamabad said on Monday.

Dear Indians,

I am quite suprised by all you write in relation to the pipe line issue.Please put all your differences in some safe place under tight lock and key.This pipe line is critical for the development of the region, prosperity of the layman who is now suffering from the rise in the oil prices. As well mentioned in the article the comments of the Priminister of Pakistan , this pipe line is a win-win situation for both countries as well as for Iran.People of both countries need it. This will make their life comfortable. Stop passing the comments which hurt feeling of others.This will only guarantee us the peace in the region.Otherwise , you all know Pakistan and India are on equal footings when it comes to nuclear aersnal.I think, Pakistan has gone much a head with its sophiticated technologies the result of which you all witnessed in shape of Cruise Missel Test.

Rgds

An ordinary Pakistani

Re: # 19
>> In case you havn`t noticed, we -- the hindus -- ...
Cool, I guess it wud b better if you can modify that to we -- the Indians.
Our destiny (& decisions) as a nation, is controlled by Hindus, Christians, Sikhs & a host of other communities.

regards,
SN

Re: # 11

In case you havn`t noticed, we -- the hindus -- don`t buy ANYTHING from you. We don`t want to either. It is YOU -- the Pakis -- who buys everything -- including daal and bhaaji -- from us. We like it that way.

Your self-appointed ``Protector of Islam`` is the one who has been begging for this pipeline to be built and our fool of an ass petroleum minister is shining you all on.

Get the picture?

Re: # 16
>> Not everbody in Pakistan has Indian ancestry. I am one example.
Point 1 - Ok. I am talking about ~155 million - 1 pakis :)
Point 2 - As per your definition what is the geographical scope within which people with Indian ancestory live ?
Point 3 - Are you a non-native immigrant ?

regards,
SN

in addition to #15

some times you don`t even know who is incahrge in pak. Anytime any gov can be thrown out along with its policies and dictators can be murdered.
Until kargil, I thought Sharif was in charge, but immediately after that he had to run for his dear life. Now mushy is in danger of being killed....
How do you make agreements with these people/country who themselves are so unstable.

RE# 14

wiseguy,

Not everbody in Pakistan has Indian ancestry. I am one example.

regards,

haideri

Re: # 10 hamidm

before investing in any part of the world, anyone would look at return on investment prospects. Thats what everyone is worried about. Today mushy will agree, what if after 5 years the new general is more hawkish on kashmir? Pak armys/ISI`s nexus with islamic hardliners is not a secret nor is paks desire for kashmir.
Do you think any oil companies will invest billions in building pipelines through afghnistan at this poiint of time (even though it may be profittable)?
india would like to start trade but the pak establishment has a very canny way of putting kashmir (may be they want to protect domestic traders) before any other developments. In that case how do you trust the intentions?

Re: # 10
>> ... there is no reason to doubt our forefathers who warned us about the ....
Er, which forefathers ? The hindu ... ?

regards,
SN

#11 by Urstruly

[I don`t understand why on earth, hindus want to buy gas from us; they eat daal and bhaaji all the time.....so?]

If you`d been following the news lately, we aren`t BUYING gas from you. You CARRY Iranian gas from the Iranian border to the Indian border. Like everytime else, you are the middlemen or as they call it here, the DALAL.

In order to tie up paks fate with the pipeline, it is said that india may ask pak to build and maintian the pipieline (i.e. share the expenses) and india would pay for transit charges. So that any disruption will be a blow to paks share/investment too.

But i am a bit skeptical about how much of trust remians b/t the two countries. Just a couple of weeks back I read Aziz thundering: ``No trade without Kashmir``. It might be for domestic reasons but doesn`t help in building trust.

I don`t understand why on earth, hindus want to buy gas from us; they eat daal and bhaaji all the time.....so?

stop this nonsense, now !

............ based on the belligerent tone of the nine posts by assorted horrible hindoos, pakistan should stop talking to india right now !........it is a sheer waste of time......... i, for one, have always been against this cross border footsie with a neighbor who is carrying around god knows what kind of baggage - nothing good will come out of it, except a severe case of herpes ............... looke here, regardless of ``nice`` hindoos like stuka and dost-mittar, there is no reason to doubt our forefathers who warned us about the knife-in-armpit and ram-on-lips character of this nation ...........

............ i began to have my doubts about these people the day vereesh, blinded by his prejudice, couldn`t find any chemist shops in rawalpindi !!

Mani Shankar Aiyar is a sentimental fool. Just because his ancestral home happens to be in Pakistan and the Pakis gave him a warm welcome when he went to visit it, the fool is in a hurry to get the pipeline ready and in the process, give the Pakis a chance to hold India to ransom.

I agree with #4 by CoolAL -- an undersea pipeline, though more expensive, is the better alternative.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

re: this pipeline issue
When India wants transit facility thr` Pak to assist Afghanistan, Pak says it can`t give such facility until Kashmir issue is resoved. It has no such qualms over transit facility for a gas pipeline. What hypocrisy?
Sridhar

re: this article
The author says:
(Construction of a natural gas pipeline fro Iran to India via Pakistan with a cost of greater than US$5 billion is an extraordinary step for two long-term adversaries. If completed, the pipeline would provide both countries with a substantial supply of gas and allow Pakistan to reap $200-$500 million per year in transit fees and economies of scale. “The gas pipeline is a win-win proposition for Iran, India, and Pakistan,” Pakistani Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz declared in January.)
Pak is still India`s enemy. At all levels. So, constructing a gas pipeline thr` an enemy territorry is a stupid thing to do. India will be putting its energy needs at the hands of Pak, giving it a leverage that it does not have. It is to be noted that India does have a leverage over Pak over the Indus waters issue as much of that water flows thr` India and Pak is a lower riperian country. India can potentially play havoc with Pak if it stops the water from flowing into the country, as can happen during times of war. India would not like to give the same leverage to Pak with respect to its burgeoning energy needs.
What is then the alternative for India?
Indian scientists recently acheived a breakthr` for safely using heavy water for converting Thorium to Uranium. This gives India a way out of its energy problems. Kerala has the highest deposits of Manzonite (source of thorium) in the world.
It is only after this breakthr` that US agreed to have nuclear co-operation. Nodoubt US is worried that such technology should not go into wrong hands. What better than to cooperate and secure India`s energy needs.
It is noteworthy here that a country like France meets most of its energy needs thr` nuclear reactors.
Besides, why have an enemy make profit from this endeavour when it also stands to gain by having an upper hand over the distribution of gas.
Author says Pak is a energy deficient nation. Sure. Why does Pak not build its own pipeline with Iran? why wait for India to join?
Reason is simple. Economics. It is not profitable to build a pipeline that extends to Pak alone without going into India, which is a vast market.
Sridhar

IMHO, it would be a big mistake by India to rely on a such a vital resource as oil
that will pass via pipeline passing through Pakistan.
Until Pakistani leadership and population evolves and Pakistani army is out of the picture,
India should stay away from any kind of relationship with Pakistan.
Until Pakistani mindset changes, India should look east and Pakistan should
continue looking west (and hope it prospers that way) with a big barrier in between.

The ideal solution is an undersea pipeline from Oman to Gujarat. This will get us all the Saudi, Omani, Qatari, Iranian AND Turkmanistani gas. Instead of building T-A-P, it should be T-I-I pipeline. (Turkmanistan-Iran-India) pipeline.

The land link via Pakistan is crazy. I would build the undersea pipeline first and THEN the land pipeline as an expansion option AFTER pakiland comes to its senses. It is better to take the financial hit up-front than be held hostage by the Jihadis. That we will be held hostage is quite apperant even to the terminally demented since the Pakistanis have crowed themselves hoarse as to why this is ``such a fantastic strategic option for Pakistan``.

Enough is enough....

#1 - Nabendu

India has to worry about not ``some`` radical element in Pakistan - but India has
to worry about - the *main* radical element in Pakistan, the Government of
Pakistan.

The pipeline is quite attractive as an incentive for reconciliation between India and Pakistan


WTF do you have in that pipe you`re smoking...

Pakis don`t want peace...they want a resolution of the core issue..which is code for they want Indian Kashmir on a platter...

Anyone who tells you otherwise is a deluded indian or a liar...

India`s determination to go ahead with the IPI pipeline shows that India does not need to, and hence will not, agree to any and every whim of the USA. The pipeline makes immense sense. The only wild card is whether Pakistan will be able to guarantee that some readical element in Pakistan will not be able to blow it up.