ISNA Thugs

Re: # 31
``pet birds``
Chauhan Saheb, that was VERY funny
: o )

Re: # 27
Recycler bin instead
: o )
Very funny.
Saudi Propaganda, now THAT`S a huge issue which should be discussed further

Re: # 26
Very well said sire
: o )

Well, check this out. Being a bad ``mullah`` can cost you a lot of moolah, like $800,000
this is a masjid about 25 miles from me, the largest in southern California:

Fired Principal Awarded $788,000
A jury agrees there was sex discrimination in the woman`s dismissal from a Garden Grove Islamic elementary school. A cultural clash is blamed.

A Superior Court jury has ordered the Islamic Society of Orange County and two of its officials to pay the former principal of its elementary school nearly $800,000, agreeing that they discriminated against her when she was fired two years ago.

Zakiyyah Muhammad, an African American woman who converted to Islam, was fired after serving five years as principal of the Orange Crescent School in Garden Grove.

Although the jury did not have to specify what type of discrimination was involved, Ed Connor, Muhammad`s attorney, said Monday the main thrust of the case was gender bias because his client had challenged her male superiors. The jury said it found no evidence to support the separate accusation of racial bias.

``Our case was she did not fit stereotypical notions held by Muslim men of how Muslim women should act,`` he said.

Muhammad said her case showed the cultural schism that can exist between U.S.-born Islamic women who believe they are equal to men and Islamic immigrants from Asian and Middle Eastern countries, where many women are subservient.

Muhammad and Connor said they were challenging not Islam but cultural practices. Both said the religion ensures equality between the sexes.

``The revelation of the Koran is not antithetical to the Constitution of the United States,`` Muhammad said.

Barbara Fitzgerald, attorney for the defendants, said, ``The verdict is erroneous and will be corrected on appeal.`` She wouldn`t comment further.

The Superior Court jury of eight women and four men deliberated two days before reaching a verdict Friday afternoon. The jury ordered the Islamic Society, which runs the school; Dr. Fazal Mirza, president of its school board; and board treasurer Refat Abodia to pay Muhammad $788,000, which includes punitive damages of $130,000.

Shortly before bringing in their verdict, jurors sent the judge a note saying they wanted to let both sides ``know and understand that we do not consider Islam to be on trial…. We have been empowered to deliver a verdict but we are powerless to deliver peace and understanding. You must seek this elsewhere.``

In addition to discrimination, jurors found the defendants guilty of intentional infliction of emotional distress, fraud, negligence and conspiracy to defraud.

Muhammad, 60, who holds a master`s degree and doctorate from Columbia University in New York, had been involved in Islamic education most of her career. She came from Sacramento in 1998 to run Orange Crescent. The school was accredited the next year.

Muhammad charged in her suit that Mirza, the new school board president in 2003, had secretly planned to replace her with the vice principal, a Pakistani immigrant. The suit also said Mirza had reneged on an agreement giving her a new two-year contract with a raise to $65,000 a year and instead put her on probation.

Muhammad said Mirza verbally attacked her at a school board meeting and that she asked for an apology. When it never came, she asked for a hearing before the Majlis-e-Shura, the society`s governing board. Shortly afterward, on Sept. 16, 2003, she was fired.

``She did the `unthinkable,` `` Connor said. ``She questioned the authority of an elder, and she`s a woman and he`s a man. Those would never be legit reasons anywhere in the U.S. for firing her.``

A report on the firing, by the Council on Islamic Education, a group of Islamic scholars from around the country, said the decision to fire Muhammad was hasty, unethical, unprofessional and a violation of Islamic principles. The council had heard about the firing and decided to investigate, according to Muhammad`s previous attorney.

The council warned that the matter could widen a rift between immigrant and U.S.-born Muslims and ``invariably be seen as proof that immigrant Muslim communities look at African American Muslims as their inferiors.``

Re: # 255

Back to square 0, aren`t you Sattar? Or is it your IQ that`s at 0? ROTFL

Too bad, so sad! Your only hope is to have GWB use you like a condom... sorry I meant Ahmed Chalabi, for your 5 seconds of recognition in the world. Other than that, even GWB & the PMU Feminazis wouldn`t touch you with a 10` pole while you`re in awe of 6` men from your 3` eye-level.

For your convenience, I`ll post an important excerpt from my last post:

``It`s pretty basic stuff you have wasted/are wasting your few remaining brain-cells in your futile attempts to mould Islam to your ends. How could you pull off such a stunt without any IQ whatsoever, if your Mirza and your scholars couldn`t?``

Certainly not with your IQ level.

Try to get some sleep without nightmares. And don`t worry about this religion stuff. It doesn`t appear to be your cup of tea.

cheers
:-)~~

ntsyed,

Killing a apostate for mischief is like killing a 6-foot-tall person for mischief. Being 6-foot tall has nothing to do with, neither is apostasy relevant here by any means. Mischief is the common denominator which should be the focus, and indeed this is how Quran addresses the issue.

Introducing apostasy into the equation is baseless and futile, and merely a way to harass non-Muslims. Do check with your cousin Urstruly … who thinks that apostates should be killed.

Show me one Quranic verse where anyone is authorized to execute a person for apostasy.

Re: # 253

Bingo!

GOTCHA!

ROTFL

mian chhor do murghi/bakri (whatever the proverb contains) ki teesri taang!

1. refer to the 50+ verses i listed, if you dare to...to understand that the Prophet (pbuh) was authorized by none other than Allah to execute the apostates he (pbuh) did under the prevalent circumstances.

Otherwise, failure to recognize your own contradiction is the mother of intellectual deprivation as known to be possessed by apostates without any IQ whatsoever.

2. The apostate who creates mischief must be executed. Mischief refers to dunga-fasaad as well as blasphemous attempts to declare prophethood, as well as the blasphemous attempts to change Shar`ia as exemplified and explained to us by the Prophet (pbuh).

Otherwise,

1. how is one to know when a person becomes an apostate?
2. Even if he declares his apostasy, but refrains from mischief, as described briefly above, he is to be left alone according to the Shari`ah. Another option would be to exile him if he promises and refrains from threathening the security of the Muslim community.

It`s pretty basic stuff you have wasted/are wasting your few remaining brain-cells in your futile attempts to mould Islam to your ends. How could you pull off such a stunt without any IQ whatsoever, if your Mirza and your scholars couldn`t?

RIP

Ciao
:-)~~

ntsyed (#252):

Punishment for apostasy is somewhat of a litmus test which separates Muslims from low-IQ fanatics.

Quran refers to apostasy in several times while never mentioning any worldly punishment for it. Actually Quran discusses possibility of an apostate coming back to Islam!!! Killing a person for apostasy shuts this door on a person.

Killing apostates forces a religion on a person against his will. This is one of many places where your Islam collapses, while claiming to be tolerant and peaceful. Failure to recognize this contradiction is the intellectual deprivation I mentioned earlier. You are its living proof.

Re: # 251

Sattar2,

Your point about internal strife between the scholars is right on, but somehow it would sound so much better coming from a Hanafi, Shafi, Maliki, or Hanbali scholar instead.

Other than that, your rant about apostasy suggests you haven`t improved your diet thus your intellectual crap remains just that. Trust me dude, no matter what you do, this part always gives away your Ahmedi confusion, delusion, or whatever else you wanna call it, regardless of how hard you try to keep your identity concealed.

Cheers
:-)~~

ISNA faces several challenges as it tries to unite Muslims in North America. One of these is to overcome ummah’s sectarian divisions that have bitterly marked Islamic history. The other issue is dealing with fanatic and somewhat barbaric elements that overtime have become intertwined with mainstream Islamic thought and teachings. Together, these elements pose a formidable challenge for ISNA leadership and its constituency.

Inter-sectarian differences

Since ISNA is grounded in theological framework (as “I” in ISNA suggests), it would be tricky business to do away with theological differences among various flavors of Islam. Having differences may be a manageable issue. However, the equation is complicated by inter-sectarian fatwas of kuffr (inevitably followed by counter fatwas of kuffr) which seem to be the main tool of resolving differences among the ullema. History of violence between sects only makes an already bad situation, worse.

ISNA leadership may attempt to ignore it, but this history is bound to surface sooner or later. Already the issue of integrating shias (or accepting Ahmadis, esp. the Brazilian ones) has come up. Is an ISNA leader supposed to overlook fatwas of kuffr issued by ullema of his own sect against others?

Whose Islam does “I” represent

My experience is that a Muslim is likely to claim to be a Muslim only. However, actually what he is telling you is that … “you really should accept Hanafi Islam as the true Islam” … if he happens to be a Hanafi. This is usually followed by a discussion on Quran, references to ahadith, with follow-up links to idiotic web-sites run by ullema with despicable abilities to think and to reason.

Replace Hanafi here with whatever … ons gets the point.

Claims of “Islam = Peace”

Sooner or later ISNA will need to explain some thorny issues which are but a few skeletons in Islam’s closet. It is one thing to blindly, without thought, equate Islam with peace. How does this jive with executing apostates … remains unanswered. As is often said, devil is in the details. Islamic punishment of death for adultery and blasphemy are examples that do not fit with ill-thought out claims of Islam being the religion of peace.

The good …

ISNA has a few things going for it. In the post-9/11 era, some Muslims may feel the need to set aside their sectarian differences and to coalesce in efforts to put a human, dignified face on Islam. A common enemy is a strong unifying force. Now that Islamic teachings are under the media microscope, some well-thought out responses are called for. This perhaps is where lies the highest utility of ISNA.

… the bad …

But these responses will need to be politically correct, which will inevitably pose a dilemma for ISNA leadership. How are ullema supposed to explain hadith where Prophet (pbuh) had people killed for apostasy? ISNA’s best hope is that media scrutiny does not go deep enough. Placing Fox interviews right before the super bowl would be a good strategy, for starters.

… and the ugly

ISNA has a lot of baggage to sort through. Deriving bulk of its support from the mosque-frequenting types who by far seem to be somewhat intellectually deprived, adds to ISNA’s difficulties. To be fair I should mention that this intellectual deprivation is not unique to the ummah … it is ever present among the church-going christian crowd, orthodox jews, horrible hindus, and more.

What makes ummah’s case somewhat unique is their obsession with Islam’s glorious past, support for khilafat in Quran, and ummah’s zeal to implement shariah in foreign lands.

Although ISNA may do more good than harm in near future, I suspect that sooner or later ummah’s age-old instincts will take over. In one extreme scenario, these may lead ISNA to aim for establishing khilafat. Another scenario is that owing to internal differences it splits or becomes a dysfunctional organization, marred by, guess what, fatwas of kuffr.

I hope ISNA proves me wrong. But I remain skeptical for now.

Escapist sahib, #249 {``Why would a mirzai want to join ISNA convention? Its ``Islamic`` Society of North America.``}

Just to piss off the Wahabbis in power in Indianapolis. :)

I think Mirzais consider themselves ``Islamic`` and many even reside in North America?
I could see if ISNA didn`t want any Brazilian Quadianis.

Salim,

Why would a mirzai want to join ISNA convention? Its ``Islamic`` Society of North America.


Regards

Re: # 245 by Salim_Chauhan

``BTW, do you think that the ``highly-educated`` matron of Chowk would agree that there may not be parity in this department. Shouldn`t the male pages on the Hill make just as much as Ms. Lewinsky did for her services just a few blocks to the west?``

Salim Bhai, I`m sure our highly-educated Mausi (matron) Museebtay would agree to that if, and when, her eyes and brain are popped back in their natural cavities.

:-)~~

#246, {``I personally met Shia friends who were attending the convention. I am still investigating whether or not representatives of Shia communities and organizations have been invited to participate. I do know that membership is open to all Muslims - Sunni and Shia.``}

escapist,
Thanks for a commendable effort to defend ISNA. BTW, does the open invitation to ISNA also extend to Ahmedis? Just curious.
Thanks,

ISNA? Thugs
By Sheila Musaji

In the week after the 42nd annual ISNA convention an article appeared on the Muslimwakeup and Naseebvibes websites entitled “ISNA Thugs” by Umbreen Shah. At first, I dismissed the article, because it was poorly written, and made undocumented and inaccurate claims, Then I read it again and became angry not at the writer, but at those who had published the article as if it was a legitimate piece of journalism. As I thought about it a bit more I began to think that maybe there was a possibility of a positive outcome if the questions raised in the article were addressed and considered.

Over the past 30 years I have been openly critical of some of the policies of ISNA and other national and local Muslim organizations, so I cannot be accused of being blind to the very real problems that need to be addressed.

That being said, I have seen over the years a very steady progress towards addressing and solving many problems. At this convention I saw major changes from 30, 20, or even 10 years ago. I personally know many of the brothers and sisters who have been involved with ISNA (some from the beginning) and based on my personal experience, they have been open to suggestions, gave genuine consideration to constructive criticism, and are well-intentioned. ISNA grew out of the earlier MSA and was one of the first organizations attempting to create an association that would give Muslims in America a voice. The ISNA convention is the largest gathering of Muslims in the U.S.

Although ISNA certainly has room for improvement, just from a practical standpoint, the Muslim community in the U.S. is an embattled community that needs a strong voice to speak for it in the public arena. As a community we have poured resources into ISNA over many years, and ISNA is generally accepted even by non-Muslim agencies and organizations as the primary voice of Islam in America. I believe that what is needed is to strengthen and widen ISNA`s scope. This can be done by many more individuals and organizations joining ISNA - as all members are able to vote. This can be done by encouraging ISNA to initiate dialogues with Sufi organizations, Shiah organizations, progressive Muslim organizations, African-American organizations, and finding ways that they can all work together. This can be done by encouraging ISNA to be more transparent, and to include representatives of other communities on its board. There is a lot to be done, but such positive developments can only come about by working with and not against the existing organization.

Over the years our solution to disagreements has consistently been to start a new organization, and this has not been an effective strategy. Of all the existing organizations ISNA has the best chance of being a true umbrella group representing the wide range of Muslims in the U.S.


1. The article claims that ISNA asserts that it is the “only representative of Muslim Americans from all walks of life”

I searched ISNA print publications and information on the their website for any claim that they were “THE” representative and could not find any. Their Mission Statement states: “ISNA is an association of Muslim organizations and individuals that provides a common platform for presenting Islam, supporting Muslim communities, developing educational, social and outreach programs and fostering good relations with other religious communities, and civic and service organizations.”

2. African Americans are the most underrepresented of all groups at ISNA. ... Given that African-Americans make up the single largest segment of American Muslims, the fact that they don’t have a sizable stake raises a lot of questions about the validity of ISNA as an American Muslim organization.

African Americans may not be represented in large numbers at the ISNA convention because W.D. Muhammad traditionally holds his convention on the same week-end as the ISNA convention. W.D. Muhammad`s organization is currently called The Mosque Cares (formerly the Muslim American Society). I wish that both conventions could be combined, and know that over the years there have been many discussions by the leadership of both organizations about how this could be brought about.

However, although we still have not reached the ``ideal`` situation of having joint conventions, there was definitely interaction.

W.D. Muhammad (who is an alumnus of ISNA`s Board of Trustees) was part of the Press Conference that met before the first session of the conventions. Imam WD Muhammad formally unveiled the special issue of ISNA’s Islamic Horizons magazine dedicated to the contribution of African-Americans to Islam in America.

9-12 The information above was from a pre-convention news release. I spoke with Shaikh M. Nur Abdullah, President of ISNA today and he informed me that although Imam Muhammad was invited to the press conference and had given a positive response, at the last minute he was unable to attend.``

While these conventions are held in separate venues they are unified in spirit and in their desire to foster a feeling of community among all American Muslims. As a result, attendees from one conference can attend the other without having to pay additional fees. A shuttle service was planned to be sponsored by The Council of Islamic Organizations and called ``The Unity Bus``. The Council wanted to sponsor the Unity Bus as part of an effort to help bring together the different Muslim communities that converge in Chicago for the two separate conventions every September. However, this was cancelled at the last minute because approval was not received from W.D. Muhammad`s organization.

At one point I was walking through the ISNA bazaar and heard a Native Deen’s rap cd being played in the bazaar area which attracted my attention. I was able to purchase a CD for one of my son’s and even get it signed by one of the musicians.

My husband and I attended both conventions and were made to feel welcome at both. It would be wonderful if some day these conventions could come together, but there was much more awareness this year than in the past.

The only suggestion I have is that this information should have been available in the printed program for the ISNA convention.

3. Even while the recent Katrina Hurricane blew across the predominantly African-American regions of the US, ISNA’s relief efforts were ad hoc at best

Hurricane Katrina hit the south a few days before the convention. ISNA moved faster than government agencies and before President Bush returned from his vacation ISNA had already promised to raise $10 million through the new organization formed on the spot -The Muslim Hurricane Relief Task Force.

The more than 30,000 Muslims attending this year`s ISNA convention also said a special Islamic prayer, Salat el Gha`eb, or prayer for the absent, for Katrina`s victims following the weekly Friday prayer.

Islamic Relief and many other groups also had Katrina awareness and fundraising efforts at their booths in the ISNA bazaar.

4. discussions on hijab (head covering for women), polygamy and countering Islamophobia were the focus

Looking through the program with the listings of all the presentations, I am hard pressed to even find anything on these topics among the wide range of topics discussed. I can find interfaith dialogue, media and journalism issues, political representation, community development, public policy, community development, spirituality, professional meetings, civil rights, counseling, abuse, etc. I carefully went through the program and could find no session on hijab, only one on Islamophobia, and none on polygamy. They certainly were not the focus by any stretch of the imagination.

5. There is a tendency in ISNA to enforce a particular religiously conservative philosophy without adapting to the people it serves.

This has been a problem over the years, but is a function of those who are actively participating in ISNA. Over the years as more diverse elements began to participate and to make requests, there have been changes. Some small, some large, and this process is ongoing. For example: There were many booths who were playing music, and on 2 occasions there was a live performance. Some years ago this would not have been considered proper. The entertainment sessions offered in the evenings included: nasheeds, poetry, comedy, a film festival, and a live play. There was also an Islamic Art exhibit.

There was an annual general assembly at the convention where ISNA leaders discussed the working of the organization, presented their ideas and received feedback from members.

6. Women presenters at ISNA have been routinely asked to wear hijab during presentation even though they don’t normally wear the headscarf. This has promoted either hypocrisy or contention when presenters have refused to wear it.

I am still trying to research whether or not this is a policy and since as with many other points, no documentation or reference is given will have to start from scratch. However, since the majority of Muslims are in agreement that women should be covered in public, then I find nothing strange about such a request being made of presenters - especially since no restrictions are made or pressure put on women attendees generally.

7. Women on ISNA’s board of directors are limited to a sample space of one

Of 21 Board members listed on the ISNA website - 4 are women which is 19% and one of those is the VP. This is not as many women as would be ideal, but it is a respectable showing. I am hopeful that the percentage of women will improve over time.

8. Why is ISNA opposed to a wholesome family feel in mosques and adamant on making it a patriarchal space where women are only “lent” space?

ISNA was one of the organizations who reviewed and supported the Women-Friendly Mosques brochure which was distributed to mosques across the country this year.

At the ISNA Convention itself there was a token separation of women`s and men`s entrances to the main hall, but after that people could sit wherever they wanted. In the bazaar, cafeteria eating areas, in the presentation rooms there was no separation.

There was even a session entitled ``Towards Sister Friendly Masjids and Islami Centers``.

While individual mosques may be affiliated with ISNA, ISNA is not able to enforce policies on those individual mosques.

9. Its exclusionary religious perspective successfully alienates the entire Shia Muslim sect.

``I want to know what sessions you went to Umbreen Shah - because we walked away with extremely different impressions of the event. You mention that Shia`s are not welcome to the event - I`ve never seen or heard anything that points to this event as being Sunni only. In fact, time and time again, the voices I heard were the ones encouraging unity amongst Muslims - in fact, one speaker even saying that the differences between Sunnis and Shias really didn’t matter anymore in this day and age ... We have our differences fine, but its time to come together with our various different viewpoints and work for the greater good - for which she/he (I can’t remember which) received loud applause...`` Comment by Nuralaain on naseebvibes

I personally met Shia friends who were attending the convention. I am still investigating whether or not representatives of Shia communities and organizations have been invited to participate. I do know that membership is open to all Muslims - Sunni and Shia.

I would hope that individuals who have contacts with the various Shiah communities such as the UMAA who hosted their 3rd annual convention in Washington D.C. in May to consider also holding their conventions in Chicago over the Labor day week-end, so that many different Muslim groups could be in the same location at the same time, and perhaps have at least some shared programs. If ISNA has 40,000 in attendance, W.D. Muhammad has 8,000, the Shiah community another 5,000, some of the Sufi conferences 1,000 each separately - I believe that if they were all in Chicago at the same time all of them would show more attendance and the total number of attendees might reach as high as 75,000.

10. Run mostly by first generation Immigrant Muslims with cultural baggage from their homelands, ISNA management has been unable to relate to their American-born Muslim constituency which is the future of Islam in America.

There were more young people (between about 16 and 25) than I have ever seen in the past, and the MYNA and MSA programs were as numerous as the ISNA programs.

11. More shocking, a mere 10% of all Muslims in America attend the ISNA-affiliated Mosques and institutions. Apparently, ISNA’s biggest success has been in alienating 90% of American Muslims.

Imam Zaid Shakir wrote an excellent article about the many reasons individuals are not connected with their local mosques - Flight From the Masjid ... This is not a problem unique to ISNA, but ISNA is working to address many of these issues.

``Yep, ISNA has loads of problems. They definitely need to be more inclusive of other ethnicities/races/women, they need to be accountable to their domestic constituency not foreign influences, etc. And there is movement toward that--particularly at the very dynamic MSA & MYNA meetings which were far more interesting than the ISNA lectures. However, they`ve also done lots of good. It was my 1st ISNA & I was surprised at how non-judgemental, open, & welcoming everyone was to a non-hijabi South Asian & her white partner. I also thought it was overwhelmingly South Asian, not Arab as described here. In some ways our experiences are controlled by what we expect or want to see, & Ms Shah & I are no exceptions. It`s a continuing contention of MWU`s founders that the 90% ``unmosqued`` are not represented by ISNA or other Islamic organizations. Agreed. But to think ISNA had any hand in ``alienating 90% of American Muslims`` as Ms Shah contends is ridiculous. The vast majority of people who accept the label of any religion or ism are usually not particularly devout or devoted to the cause. Most Muslims in this country are not interested in their religious or cultural identity, and they are just as surely not represented by MWU or the PMUNA. Since the intrepid reporter Ms Shah failed to notice the *massive* banners everywhere stating it was the 42nd (not 45th as she states in her very first sentence) annual conference, it makes one wonder at her attention to detail & MWU`s fact-checking abilities.`` Commented by Ayesha on MWU website.

12. MuslimWakeup.com’s reporter, Mike Knight, was invited by ISNA to attend a press briefing by Karen Hughes. But during the press briefing, ISNA authorities asked security to get him out. They were suspicious about an image at the back of his jacket; then, they once again told him to go back and attend the briefing.

``Mr. Knight ... admitted to the individuals who ultimately gave him media clearance to attend the conference (I was there and heard the whole thing), that he felt ISNA would not grant him press credentials to attend so intentionally did not pre-register (as ALL the CREDIBLE MEDIA had). He was vouched for by MuslimWakeUp reporter Mr. S. Khan and was represented as a photographer for MWU. ISNA, being the all inclusive organization that it is, allowed that ... clearance nonetheless. He was removed from the press conference because Karen Hughes and her entourage were uncomfortable with his appearance, mannerisms, attitude, and general presence. ISNA allowed him in, the government kicked him out.`` Comment by manifestation on naseebvibes

According to an article on MWU`s website ``During the Q&A, a policeman approached Michael and his 2 companions and asked them to come outside. Once outside, a special agent with a State Department i.d. asked them why they were at the press conference and searched them and their bags. After ISNA staffers vouched for them, they were allowed back into the press conference. ``

All of this appears to have been over an Alternative Tentacles jacket Mr. Knight was wearing with an unusual logo that raised alarm on someone`s part. So far, we have been unable to find out whether an ISNA representative, a conference goer, or the police were the first to notice this jacket and decide to question Mr. Knight.

9-13 Just published on the MWU website an article by Michael Knight himself clears up the issue of whether or not he had a press pass. `` I had a pile of counterfeit badges with names like Ben Ishmael and Al Rukn but wasn’t sure if they’d do the job later, so Shahjehan went behind the media booth and added our names to a Post-It list of registered journalists. Then we went upstairs, napped for a few hours on the couches and went back down as things were getting alive. We approached the media booth and told them that we needed badges. The guy running things looked at his little yellow Post-It, saw our names and wrote them up. Now we had all-access media passes.`` and further on in the article answers the question of whether or not he had been invited to the press conference: ``Omar tipped us off to the press conference featuring Karen Hughes, Department of State Undersecretary of Public Diplomacy and Public Affairs and Bush’s representative to the ISNA convention, ostensibly centered around the earth-shattering announcement of a brochure condemning terrorism. ... It was obvious that we didn’t belong in there, and not least of all to those charged with protecting the event. So now we know that Mr. Knight did not have a legitimate press pass and was not invited to the press conference.

13. Malaysian authorities also faced ISNA’s flip flopping in the past, when then-Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad was invited in 2000 to attend the convention, after which ISNA retracted its invitation based on a court case that Mahathir was party to. In response to ISNA’s impropriety and unbecoming behavior, Dr. Mahatir Mohammad responded: “It is their right to invite and then to withdraw the invitation. It clearly showed that ISNA just listens to one side of the story and refuses to get the truth from the other side.``

Mahathir Mohammad’s invitation was withdrawn (after tremendous outside pressure) because he jailed his deputy PM Anwar Ibrahim on what everyone (including Amnesty) felt were trumped-up sodomy charges. The entire global community opposed Mahathir on this. ISNA withdrew the invitation to Mahathir after consideration of the implications of this scandal.

14. Similarly, the publishers of a Sufi magazine, New Track, were allegedly thrown out of the convention area and a message announced to attendants discouraging alternative voices of Islam.

I can find no reference online to any such magazine. Perhaps it is new. Which tariqa does it represent? Who made the allegations? Who made the announcement, where, and what was the actual wording? This comment appears to be simply hearsay with absolutely no documentation.

15. Particularly questionable was the officials’ behavior with a Muslim website’s volunteers. Flyers promoting an event with Muslim artists, comedian Azhar Usman, Nasheed singers 786 and Malaysian singer, Ani Zonneveld were snatched from volunteers and other attendants who had paid tickets to attend ISNA, and tossed out by ISNA representatives who called it “trash” and “unislamic filth.”

There was a comment posted on MWU under this article: The event in question was sponsored by Naseeb, and considering it was not an ISNA sponsored event, ISNA reserves the right to choose what events may or may not be publicized through them. Naseeb should have also obtained permission prior to the convention. calling the event ``unislamic`` and ``trash`` is over the top but how can one be sure that these were ISNA representatives? there were a number of self appointed moral police there who took it upon themselves to call anyone and anything ``unislamic`` and ``trash``. unless there is proof that these were ISNA reps one can`t blame ISNA.

I can find no mention on the Naseebvibes site of this incident or even of the event, so don`t know yet what actually happened or if this incident involved individuals from Naseebvibes. I do have a number of questions: What was the website and who were the “representatives”? Who reported that they heard this exchange?

``I attended ISNA and didn`t hear anything about that whole last bit. As far as I know, 786 was even invited to the MSA entertainment event. I know for a fact that other nasheed groups performed there as well. ISNA is fully aware of all MSA events... in fact, it`s all published in the same agenda magazine...``Comment by Paro113083 on naseebvibes

9-13 I was forwarded information from a flier announcing that the First Annual Naseeb Meetup - a night of music and comedy - was being held at the Crowne Plaza on September 4th at 7:30 p.m. This seems to be the event that Umbreen Shah was referring to in her article.

16. It is worth inferring that ISNA wants to promote only non-ideology based businesses like boutiques and halal meat stores. ISNA is in a position to facilitate the formation of an American Muslim identity. However, without more enlightened leadership it may never live up to its potential.

There were many “ideology based” organizations represented - magazines, publishing houses, etc. one only had to walk through the bazaar or read the list of organizations and groups who had booths to see this.

17. Security was alerted on the volunteers who were treated like criminals and forced off the convention premises. One of the women was so humiliated as a result of ISNA’s security methods that she began weeping as she waited outside for her family. “I have never been stalked like this in my life,” She said. Later ISNA organized its thugs to parade a procession with banners and chants against the website and the event held. They yelled, “Haram! Haram! Haram!”

Since the ``victim`` of this alledged incident is not named, and I was unaware of such an incident, I am still waiting to hear from other convention goers to find out if anyone knows anything about this incident.

18. When faced with the challenge of integrating wider representation of Muslims, it takes only token steps.

On the question of diversity some of the comments that have been left on the Naseebvibes and MWU websites clearly speak to this issue.

``as someone coming from a minority muslim community, I look to organizations such as ISNA to finally break down the exclusive barriers that keep so many muslim communities in isolation. Having attended it twice, I feel that ISNA at least does a good job creating such a space (which I don`t see many other orgs/groups doing).`` Comment by Khazana on Naseebvibes

``...to criticize ISNA for not being completely representative. The points are valid: African-Americans are drastically under-represented, women in leadership are few and far between - but for all your ISNA bashing you don`t (or perhaps can`t) name a single Muslim organization in America that IS more inclusive and representative. As far as Muslim organizations go, ISNA is still fairly inclusive: you meet many different types of people at the convention; is it all-inclusive? no. is it more inclusive than many other organizations? Yes. The fact remains that no Muslim group is ever going to be completely inclusive, unless you happen to be talking about the Muslim group known simply as ``Islam.`` Comment by Hassanmahmad on naseebvibes

There were so many choices of presentations in the program that there really was something for everyone, and of those that I chose to attend there were many female presenters as well as presenters from the younger generation, and even non-Muslim presenters.

This convention seemed to be much more diverse than years ago. I personally met Arab, Indian, Pakistani, Bosnian, Malaysian, African, Chinese, Hispanic, African-American, immigrant, convert, sufi, sunni, shia, and second and third generation Muslims at this convention.

19. All of this calls for a questioning of agendas and motives.

I would have to say that is true. I would question the agenda and motives of those who would publish this emotional diatribe as if it was a serious article without even checking the basic facts.

ISNA seems to me to be the premier Muslim umbrella organization in the U.S. and deserves to be supported by the Muslim community. It can be improved, but that is the job of the community. Those who have ideas for how to make ISNA more inclusive and effective need to get involved, offer constructive criticism and suggestions for improvement, and offer their services.

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Sheila Musaji is the Editor of The American Muslim at http://www.theamericanmuslim.org. This article was originally published at http://www.theamericanmuslim.org/2005september_comments.php?id=868_0_45_30_C and will be updated as more information is received.

#241 ntsyed {``After all she availed her ``rights`` as a woman to have the honor to polish the First Knob, made a lot of name and money for herself with it``}

NT Bhai,
The First knob! Man, you are so funny. I can`t stop laughing.
BTW, do you think that the ``highly-educated`` matron of Chowk would agree that there may not be parity in this department. Shouldn`t the male pages on the Hill make just as much as Ms. Lewinsky did for her services just a few blocks to the west?