ISNA Thugs

Re: # 79 by Salim_Chauhan

Salim Bhai,

Thank you from acknowledging my POV...jazakAllah khairan!

However, I beg to differ with you on ``referendum`` bit.

Referendum will only perpetuate the corruption as is the case in Pak and Egypt, to name a couple of examples. It allows rich and unscrupulous to amass constituencies, ursurp the power, and hijack the agenda of the majority to their personal gains.

In my humble opinion, as I suggested earlier, what needs to happen is that highly sincere and educated - both in management and administration but more importantly in Islam - practicing Muslims to challenge the current leadership as openly as possible. Such an effort will allow the constituency to select proper representatives that could guide and lead the former in every sphere of American life as Muslims. They would not have to choose the `lesser evil` and cast their votes just for the heck of it. There`s no question in my mind the current leadership could sustain such a pressure. A most recent example to the effect is fresh in Iraq in spite of the political horse-trading and immense Western pressure behind the scenes. But the key lies in unshakeable sincerity and practice of the faith, better and uncontestable Islamic education, and superior management skills of the challengers.

Needless to say, I`m in total agreement with you on the `storm troopers` and `goody goody two shoes`. Their livelihoods and struggle for attention depends on ensuring these ills are never cured for the majority.

Allah hafiz,

:-)~~

ntsyed #62, {``Please tell me where did you read in my post a claim that current ISNA leadership ``demonstrate their love and obedience of the Holy Prophet (PBUH)``, or even a hint to that effect? What I did say is that it`s not such an easy task to undertake. BTW, the authors is way off on her numbers on ISNA membership. It`s much more than 10%.
Secondly, changing Islam (main thrust of the so-called liberals/seculars) will not achieve this objective either. Thirdly, the Chowkie liberals and secularists neither possess such intelligence, nor competency, nor desire, nor the inclination to change ISNA lest they may not have any excuse to demonstrate their stupidity.``}

Syed Sahib,
You are right. You did not state that ISNA leaders demonstrate their love and obedience of the Holy Prophet (PBUH). Yes, that love and obedience should be demonstrated by actions not just meaningless speeches. As far as ISNA numbers go, I don`t care if they are 10% or 20%. In order to speak for the majority of Muslims in North America, they better conduct a referendum. I am very suspicious of ardent storm troopers who claim to represent the majority viewpoint of a segment of society. Nazis, Muslim Leaguers, Awami Leaguers, feminazis, and ISNA radicals are all the same from my point of view. They are power hunry elitists who want to gain acceptance from outsiders by claiming to represent the most extreme viewpoint among many within the group they claim to totally represent.

I agree with you that the phony liberals and goody goody two shoes, NGO types, are the last ones to ``reform`` anything. They need to start by reforming their own evil hearts.

Re: # 80
A couple of years ago, I asked a Nation of Islam man, ``I heard you guys were merging with the MAINSTREAM of Islam``. He said, ``Yea brother, but when are the sufi`s going to merge with the mainstream of Islam, when are the shia and the sunni going to merge with MAINSTREAM Islam``?...
The brother made a deep point.

Urstruly #59, {``Similarly, on this forum at least two people are Quadiani who have spilled their piss and vinegar here. Why on God`s green earth would a Quadiani want to ``reform`` a Muslim organization.? A couple of more gentlemen are shias. The shiaism is a cultic religion wherein from the cradle, anti-sunni hatererd is inculcated in innocent brains and then reinforced thru extremist cultist rituals throughout life. They never learned the middle ground. A shia would hate me because he is taught that I killed Imam hUssain ignoring the fact that at that time when Imam Sahib got killed my ancestors used to worship unsightly unmentionables. Their dualty surprise me``}

Urstruly Bhai.
Despite what the GOP thinks, Quadianis/Ahmedis are Muslims. They have every right to participate in reforms.
If I am one of the Shia gentlemen about whom you alluded your remarks , I thank you for the compliment. There is no anti-Sunni hatred inculcated in our brains. In my case, I am married to a very religious Muslim, who happens to be Sunni. Both my father and grandfather (dada) are Sunni, as are most of my relatives.

For your information, the Shia school of thought predates all of the Sunni schools, including Wahabbism and Quadianism. If Shiasm is a cultic religion as you state, then Islam must be one too, because Shia evolved with the injustices performed on the Holy Prophet`s family (PBUT) by pseudo-Muslims. Shia is short for Shian-e-Ali, or Friends of Ali. This was in contrast to the side that supported the rebel Muawiya, Governor of Syria, the son of the Holy Prophet`s (PBUH) most determined enemy Abu Sufyan.

Of course, all this is pure nonsense now that their is no Ummah and no need for centralized political leadership. In fact, ever since the beginning, small groups have ursurped the authority to represent much larger segments of the population and then carry out extremist acts in their name. For example, the Muslim League in India started out by representing Muslim rights and ended up by partitioning India and creating Pakistan. The Awami League in Pakistan started out as representatives of the people, then the Bengalis, for the purpose of representing them within Pakistan, but ended up with Bangladesh.

I am very suspicious of such people. They start something in our name and end up creating what most of us never wanted - some separate identity and ghetto existence. ISNA can be a club for bearded and hijabi people to have fun in their own way. They should not usurp the mantle of leadership for a majority of North American Muslims. For that I demand a referendum.

Re: # 82

Our latter day beggar being ridiculously (or ironically apt) enough, Osama....

Re: # 82
Dear Sis,
I`d love to talk to you about feminism. But can we do that some other calmer times?
: o )

Re: # 82
One of my teachers gave this wisdom to men:
Never engage in an argument with a woman, because you can never win.
: o )
Women are superior to men in almost every way. One way is their communication and relationship skills. I`m sure you`d agree that the quality of ``leadership`` may become better better as there are more women who get into those roles. My only one concern is that though feminism may have done a lot of good, it also kind of told women to ``become like men``. Feminists told men to become feminine, and told women to become masculine. So what might happen is if a woman copies a man, she will become a person who`s worse than that man.
: o )
But this is no personal attack, I remember what my teacher said.
: o )
It`s hard to explain in a short paragraph, but if you read these three books of my teachers, they`ll say it much better than I could:
``Iron John`` and ``Sibling Society`` by Robert Bly. ``What Really Works With Men`` by A. Justin Sterling.
Sorry, I hope I didn`t offend you in any way. Men and women need to work together in partnership. Each has their special role, like ying and yang
: o )

Urs Sahib,

I am still waiting for ANY one male critical of this piece`s thesis to explicate: 1. the Civil Rights movement 2. the philosophy, agenda and agency of the KKK. Until that has been done, you don`t really understand the argument.

Secondly, I find it amazingly hypocritical that the anti feminists on this board have no problem in foregrounding the plight of the marginalized Muslim brotha. Theres this trope that is often used among Islamacists that relies on the beggar among corrupt kings...the beggar of course turns out to be a true saint in disguise....which works so well for those useful exploitations of the male Muslim masses...but bring up the agendas of the wives, sisters, daughters and mothers of these males masses...well, then you`re just beyond the pale....

Kind of reminds of me that ``obedient revolutionary nigga`` construction...need I point out that it is a creation of the Rep party?

Dont even try that here....

Salim_Chauhan#80:

Perhaps, Urstruly and others do not know that at the time of the Partition, the Pakistani side wanted to have a neutral territory status for Qadian while the Indian side wanted similar status for Dera Baba Nanak. This hatred for Qadianis is post-partition.

#84, {``This hatred for Qadianis is post-partition.``}

DM Sahib,
Thanks for the information about the neutral territory plan. Also, your statement about the hatred being post-partition is quite logical. In trying to prove himself to be a ``zealous`` Muslim, Mr. Bhutto exploited the Maulana Maudoodi anti-Quadiani bandwagon to have the poor minority declared to be ``non-Muslim.`` The fact that some of the Pak army/air force high-command were from this sect during the `71 calamity gave more impetus to this witch-hunt.

Three down, three more to go. tahmad, are you counting or have you just turned green?

ntsyed Sahib #81,

Thank you for your response. I too share your desire for a more accurate, humane, just, and compassionate image for Islam. Unfortunately, it is so difficult to have faith in the steadfastness of these ``objective`` religious leaders. Their steadfast ``faith`` is based on an accident of birth. Most religious (and most irreligous) people are born into their faith - Muslims (Sunnia and Shia), Hindus, Christians, Jews, and others. Starting with this solid foundation of logic and research, they then proceed to proclaim how their religion is the one true path and how all others are either misguided or the work of the devil (who by the way is universally despised by all of them). They then start to put on the religious uniforms of their faith so they can compete (sometimes violently) for the few souls willing to consider anything other than what they were born into. :)

From the time we are born we are branded with names we had no choice over. These names betray our religious, ethnic, and provincial allegiances to the world. Then, others who probably had no hand (thank God!) in our existence want to clothe us, feed us (usually feed and clothe ourselves according to their dictates), make us walk and talk, and kill and die, because they think we have something in common with them. I request a more generic form of naming new humans.

Re: # 87 by Raw-Dust

Favorite reads:

Non-Fiction: Quran; Tafseer-ibn-Katheer; Rahiqul Makhtoom - The life of the Prophet Mohammad (PBUH); Compilations of Ahadith of the Prophet (PBUH) by Sahih Bokhari; Christianity, Islam, and Science; and other books on religion, politics, and sociology.

Fiction: Wuthering Heights; Animal Farm; novels by Frederic Forsyth and Hitchcock, etc.

Writers:
Sahih Bokhari, Hafiz Emaduddin Ibn Katheer, Maulana Safi Mubarakpuri, Deptury Nazir Ahmed, Khaled Baig, Yunus But, Fredrick Forsyth, Hitchcock, Bertrand Russel, etc.

I used to listen to music quite a lot. Now I don`t mind it if someone else is playing it and it doesn`t interfere with my daily obligations to Allah and human beings and contains meaningful lyrics and the instruments produce music instead of noise. Mostly though I now listen to Qaris like Sh. Sudaisi, one of the Imams of Macca.

Musicians: Mehdi Hasan, Nayyara Noor, Kishor, Rafi, Lata, Farida Khanum, Abida Parveen; Sting, Pink Floyd, Supertramp, U2, Louise Armstrong, etc. Though I enjoy some M Jackson, Beatles, Rolling Stones, genres too.

Ciao,

:-)~~

Re: # 87
I`d love to recommend the following scholars, Hamza Yusuf, Cornel West, Arundhati Roy, Edward Said, Robert Bly

Re: # 87
of course the music of Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, there is a treasure of roots, the best poetry, history, wisdom, healing, etc.

ntsyed sahib:
a personal Q: could you list a few of your favorite reads/writers/ and if you dont mind music then musicians too. it is alright if you feel like not sharing.

thanks.