The Rainy Season

Beej

It`s a pure pleasure to read the original, and to witness your spectacular effort here.

You, my friend, are a remarkable person even in the gallery of Chowk`s luminaries. My sincere congratulations.

As this page slowly but inexorably moves toward its rightful place in those infamous recesses of the chowk underbelly, it is only appropriate to say the following few words (and I, yes I, have so few words right now!)

Thanks to all of those who took the time to read this and also to those who provided comments.

In particular, Mr. Ahmed Madani deserves my heartfelt thanks for providing his overall impressions and also for regaling us with those old-time stories – sir, you are fascinating – and I really enjoy your interacts.

Sadna – your painstakingly looking this piece over made me feel highly gratified. You are a true sadhika and if someday the Chowk bans you – you could switch to that new nick – or you could do so just for the heck of it – like some other people around here!

Mishra-jee, what can I say – you seem to enjoy some of the same things that I do!

Circle of Time, Rahulmal, and Miriamk – thanks for your encouraging words.

Subroto – don’t stop working on those rhymes, there is a LOT of work ahead!

T-bhai – your encouragement is very much appreciated and I am glad you watch out for unpoets!

Even the wisecracking public must be thanked profusely – for giving me the opportunity to talk – and to out-talk you!

The rest of the crowds – who got intimidated by the subject matter (Tulsidas is not everybody’s cup of tea, of course) – hey, don’t feel bad, you have a lot of company!

As requested by one interactor a bit earlier, an updated transcription – along with its Devanagari version original – appears below.

{sundar ban kusu-mit ati sobha, goon-jat madhup nikar madhu lobha}
सुंदर बन कुसुमित अति सोभा – गुंजत मधुप निकर मधु लोभा
{kund mool fal-patra suhae, bha-ye bahut jub te prabhu aye}
कंद मूल फल पत्र सुहाए – भये बहुत जब ते प्रभु आए
{de-khi manohar saiel anoopa, rahe-tanh anuj sahit sur bhoopa}
देखि मनोहर सैल अनूपा – रहे तहँ अनुज सहित सुर भूपा
{madhu-kar khag mriga tanu dhari dewa, karahin sid-dha muni prabhu kai sewa}
मधुकर खग मृग तनु धरि देवा – करहिं सिद्ध मुनि प्रभु कै सेवा
{mangal-roop bhaya-u ban tub-te, keenh niwas Rama-pati jub-te}
मंगलरूप भयउ बन तब ते – कीन्ह निवास रमापति जब ते
{phatik sila ati subhra suhai, sukh aaseen tahan dwow bhai}
फटिक सिला अति सुभ्र सुहाई – सुख आसीन तहाँ द्वौ भाई
{kahat anuj sun katha aneka, bhagati birati nrip-neeti bibeka}
कहत अनुज सन कथा अनेका – भगति बिरति नृपनीति बिबेका
{barsha kaal megh nabh chhayey, gur-jut laagan param suha-ye}
बरषा काल मेध नभ छाए – गरजत लागत परम सुहाए

{Lachhiman dekhu more-gun, naachat baarid pekhi}
{grihi bi-rati rut harash-jus, Vishnu bhagat kahun dekhi}
लछिमन देखु मोर गन नाचत बारिद पेखि
गृही बिरति रत हरष जस बिष्नु भगत कहुँ देखि

{ghan ghamand nabh garjat ghora, priya heen darpat mun mora}
घन घमंड नभ गरजत घोरा – प्रिया हीन डरपत मन मोरा
{daamini damak rahee ghan maaheen, khal kai preeti jathaa thir naheen}
दामिनि दमक रह न धन माहीं – खल कै प्रीति जथा थिर नाहीं
{barashahin jalad bhoomi near-ayen, jatha navahi budh vidya paayen}
बरषहिं जलद भूमि निअराएँ – जथा नवहिं बुध विद्या पाएँ
{boond aghaat sahahin giri kaise, khal ke bachan sant sah jaise}
बूंद अघात सहहिं गिरि कैसे – खल के बचन संत सह जैसें
{kshudra nadeen bhar chalahin torayee, jus thore-hun dhan khal it-raa-yee}
क्षुद्र नदीं भर चलीं तोराई – जस थोरेहुँ धन खल इतराई
{bhoomi parat bha-dhaabar paani, janu jiv-hi maaya lup-tanee}
भूमि परत भा ढाबर पानी – जनु जीवहि माया लपटानी
{samiti-samiti jal bharahin talava, jimi sad-gun saj-jana pahin aawa}
समिटि समिटि जल भरहिं तलावा – जिमि सदगुन सज्जन पहिं आवा
{sarita jal jal-nidhi mahun jayee, hoi achal jimi jiv Hari payee}
सरिता जल जलनिधि महुँ जाई – होइ अचल जिमि जिव हरि पाई

{harit-bhoomi trin-sankul, samujhi parahin nahin punth}
{jimi pakhund baad-tein, goopt hohin sad-granth}
हरित भूमि तृन संकुल समुझि परहिं नहिं पंथ
जिमि पाखंड बाद तें गुप्त होहिं सदग्रंथ

{daa-dur dhuni chahu dishaa suhai, bade pa-dha-hin janu batu samudai}
दादुर धुनि चहु दिसा सुहाई – बेद पढहिं जनु बटु समुदाई
{nav pallav bhaye bitap aneka, saadhak mun jus mile bibeka}
नव पल्लव भए बिटप अनेका – साधक मन जस मिले बिबेका
{urk-jawas paat binu bhayaoo, jus suraaj khul uddwam gayaoo}
अर्क जवास पात बिनु भयऊ – जस सुराज खल उद्दम गयऊ
{kho-jat katahun milai nahin dhooree, karai krodh jimi dharamheen doori}
खोजत कतहुँ मिलइ नहिं धूरी – करइ क्रोध जिमि धरमहिं दूरी
{sasi sampann soh mahi kaisi, up-kaari kai sampati jaisi}
ससि संपन्न सोह महि कैसी – उपकारी कै संपति जैसी
{nisi-tum ghun khadyot biraja – janu dum-bhinh kur mila samaja}
निसि तम घन खद्योत बिराजा – जनु दम्भिन्ह कर मिला समाजा
{maha-brishti chali phooti kiyareen, jimi sutantra bhaye big-ruhin naarin}
महाबृष्टि चलि फूटि कियारीं – जिमि सुतंत्र भएँ बिगरहिं नारीं
{krishi nirawahin chatur kisaana, jimi budh tajahin moah, mud, maana}
कृषी निरावहिं चतुर किसाना – जिमि बुध तजहिं मोह मद माना
{dekhiaat chakra-waak khug nahin, kalahin payee jimi dharma parahin}
देखिअत चक्रबाक खग नाहीं – कलहि पाइ जिमि धर्म पराहीं
{ooshar barashai trin nahin jaama, jimi harijan hiyan upaja na kama}
ऊषर बरषइ तृन नहीं जामा – जिमि हरिजन हियँ उपज न कामा
{bibidh jantu sankul mahi bhraja, praja baadh jimi payee suraja}
बिबिध जंतु संकुल महि भ्राजा – प्रजा बाढ जिमि पाइ सुराजा
{jahan, tahan rahe pathik thaki nana, jimi indriya gun upjen gyana}
जहँ तहँ रहे पथिक थकि नाना – जिमि इंद्रिय गन उपजे ग्याना

{ka-ba-hun prabal bah maarut, juhn-tunh megh bilaaheen}
{jimi kapoot ke oopjen, kul sud-dharam nasaaheen}
कबहुँ प्रबल बह मारुत जहँ तहँ मेघ बिलाहिं
जिमि कपूत के ऊपजें कुल सद्धर्म नसाहिं
{kabahun diwas mahan nibir tum, kabahunk pragat patang}
{bin-sai up-jai gyan jimi, payee kusang susang}
कबहुँ दिवस महँ निबिड़ तम कबहुँक प्रगट पतंग
बिनसइ उपजइ ग्यान जिमि पाई कुसंग सुसंग

Re#63 Burpinder

Dear Burpinder,

Thanks for finally putting in a couple of comments – even though they had to be forced out of you with a virtual cattle prod.

You partly repeat what others have already stated and I have always agreed – that the structural requirements of rhyme impose limitations in a translation on how much flow from the original one could bring in. Also, please read the earlier interact to you regarding Tulsidas’ own estimation of his acumen as a poet – after all, this is simply a translation – not a poem on its own.

Your pre-conceived notions regarding what “belongs” and what does not belong in poetry are interesting. They run smack-dab headlong and self destruct into the other point that you so feebly attempt to bring up – that poetry should liberate and not shackle. A shackled mind – especially when shackled by pre-conceived notions and built-in prejudices that one may or may not be aware oneself – believe me, is a LOT worse off than lines of text could ever be! You need to free yourself from such prejudices and not indulge in stereotyping and wholesale generalizations – a troubling characteristic that you have demonstrated repeatedly all over the place.

You should also not “shudder” at individual words! Even though it may be a stereotype – sirdarjees are famous for their courage – take Kaura for example – who has taken countless bouts of licking at the hands of all and sundry – and like the proverbial sun, continues to shine! On the other hand, you who – for all one knows – might be the next Khushwant Singh in the making – at least in your own mind or perhaps in your own dreams (if only you could bring in a bit (or perhaps a lot more than a bit) of sex into your writings) – you flinch and shudder too easily at the prospect that your betters can gently (or not so gently) whip your posterior again and again – while you remain clueless on how to respond – slowly but surely inching up that wall – somewhat like a common household lizard, feeding on little flies and limited to a small domain!

I also notice that you utterly squealed “uncle” to my challenge of translating some of the beautiful lines from the Adi Granth by using that hackneyed and ludicrous cop-out excuse “I am not religious”. Let me bring to your attention that the latter is not a requirement for accomplishing that feat. Just the way M. F. Hussain does not have to be a Hindu to paint religious figures from the Hindu mythology – a true practitioner of the trade does not have to share the characteristics of its object. Even more troubling is your admission that you are “not comfortable” in discussing your beliefs with strangers – it implies that you are only comfortable discussing those with people who share the same thoughts as you – a red flag that you fear those beliefs would get challenged and the results may not come out to your liking. If YOU were sure – you would NOT be uncomfortable! I will try to look up the post that you mention and may have more comments on this later – if I consider it worthwhile.

I hope you enjoyed #61.

Sincerely,
Beej.

Re: Beej

``Yes Burp, I fully understand that you can count – you and another interactor have already demonstrated that level of sophistication. Now go ahead and prove to me and the rest of the crowds here that you can also READ – by commenting on the contents of those interacts – not to mention the subject piece itself!``

I will refrain from commenting on ther other interacts, but will gladly give you some inputs on your poem so that you do better in future. (yes yes I am arrogant, we`ve already established that).

The main problem I have with this piece is that it i so forced. There is no easy flow at all. Poetry should liberate, not shackle your imagination. Lines like these:

No more deadpan – now full of glee
Like Vishnu, when – sees devotee

....make me shudder. ``Deadpan`` is not a word that belongs in a work that is claimed as having any literary merit. Then you have:

Loud thunder claps – thick cloudy sky
My heart all dread – darling not by

``Darling not by``???? Did I read that right, darling not by? It sounds like something a junior college student would do while writing a rose-day card (if you know what I mean). Surely Tulsidas did not ever imagine his work would be democratized (and I am being polite) to this extent.

Finally, about your suggestion....
``Better still, why don’t you go ahead and bring to us portions of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib – I am sure people here will be enriched by it – and it will also help many people, who probably do not think too much about such things – to develop a better understanding of the importance of this Book to the Sikh psyche – how it makes the Sikhs who they are – and in turn and consequently, it makes India the country that it is!``

I am not really religious, and in fact like many of my age and class, am not really comfortable discussing religion and beliefs with strangers. Since you are such an ardent follower of my posts, I am sure you`ve seen my one (and only) pro-Romair post on another board on this very point.

``Thank you, Burpinder!``
You`re quite welcome. Burp.

beej:

in billy crystal imitation mahvellous

The Visitation, Part-2

(Sounds from outside: Knock, knock!)

Beej (B): I thought I told you to stay away till Halloween.

(William Shakespeare walks in)

B: Goodness gracious, you are that Shakespeare guy, aren’t you?
Shakespeare (S): Let every eye negotiate for itself…
B: That’s all I need – old Shakes walking in – right in the middle of all this hassle…
S: What’s gone and what’s past help?
B: I am talking of this guy – a contemporary of yours, and quite a remarkable guy!
S: What a piece of work is man!
B: His name was Tulsidas.
S: What’s in a name? That which we call a rose…
B: I know! But Tulsidas ran into some bad luck. Abandoned by parents, and the whole nine yards…
S: The fault, dear B., is not in our stars…
B: Absolutely, he seemed to manage fine – and he was quite smart in fact ….
S: So wise so young, they say do never live long…
B: Actually, he lived to be ninety – longer than you, for sure! And things were moving quite well for him, until he got married…
S: Frailty, thy name is woman!
B: It really was not Ratnavati’s fault, you know – he just loved her TOO much!
S: Then must you speak...Of One that lov’d not wisely…
B: Well, things were sort of okay, until it became too much for her…
S: The course of true love never did run smooth…
B: You see, she got her brother to come over – kind of a trick she played on him…
S: Some Cupid kills with arrows, some with traps…
B: She had him go get the groceries – to feed the guest…
S: If music be the food of love, play on…
B: Apparently, the music was not enough. Anyway, when our man returned he was beside himself to find her gone….
S: How poor are they that have not patience!
B: He really went after her – to catch up with her and to get her back.
S: A horse! A horse!
B: A horse is not much use in a swollen river on a rainy night…
S: I have a kind of alacrity in sinking…
B: So did he. But he was driven – and so he took some serious risks.
S: Cowards die many times before their deaths…
B: Well, perhaps – but he made it to her window alive…
S: But, soft! What light through yonder window...
B: Actually, it was quite dark. But he made it inside too!
S: Journeys end in lovers meeting…
B: Well, not too well – she kind of let him have it! And his love turned into some kind of generic hate for women!
S: My only love sprung from my only hate!
B: Maybe his love for Lord Rama. But it did not work out too well for his wife.
S: Get thee to a nunn’ry…
B: In a manner of speaking, it did. Anyway, let’s fast forward four hundred years and let me take you to this great-looking web site.
S: All that glisters is not gold…
B: You are accurate on the “no gold” part. But there is more to it than that. This site has some mysterious stuff going on – suspicious characters lurking around – calling themselves editors!
S: Something is rotten in the state of Denmark…
B: That’s what people say – and the quality control process for publishing articles has been alleged to be highly arbitrary.
S: Though this be madness, yet there is method in’t…
B: Perhaps. But all kinds of accusations have been hurled around.
S: Is whispering nothing?
B: Some of that whispering is quite scandalous.
S: Done to death by slanderous tongue…
B: Not by every one – but perhaps by one or two interactors.
S: That man that hath a tongue, I say is no man…
B: The site is doing okay – but the number of nicks keeps rising like magic – even though only the same old people keep showing up.
S: Nothing can come of nothing…
B: Somehow, it seems to! It is difficult to believe that all those people really exist.
S: To be or not to be, that is the question...
B: Anyway, I decided to write stuff to translate some of Tulsidas’ stuff – even though translating it seemed tough to me.
S: Oft expectation fails, and most oft there…
B: Exactly, especially since I am no poet myself.
S: The man that hath no music in himself…
B: Well, I decided to take a chance.
S: O, what men dare do!
B: Even though it would be looked at by some REAL smart cookies.
S: Be not afraid of greatness…
B: I figured – what the heck – let me try.
S: We are such stuff... As dreams are made on…
B: Well, what if it worked!
S: Why, then the world’s mine oyster…
B: Perhaps not. Actually some of the people here are quite tame, even though they are considered viscous, I tell you.
S: He’s mad that trusts in the tameness of a wolf…
B: Anyway, I wrote it – taking liberties here and there to get a rhyme – although there were problems.
S: Our remedies oft in ourselves do lie…
B: Exactly, but the readers were not giving feedback...
S: Now is the winter of our discontent…
B: Not even discontent. Just mum! Except one who did have some quibbles.
S: The lady doth protest too much, methinks…
B: I think she did quite well. Anyway, I believe I addressed her issues…
S: Was ever woman in this humour woo’d?
B: Of course. The problem was with some other interactors – the bean-counters, so to speak.
S: O, beware, my lord of jealousy…
B: One, in particular, kept coming back with smartypant remarks!
S: Off with his head!
B: That is difficult now-a-days. But I understand how you feel that way.
S: O villain, villain, smiling, damned villain!
B: Yes. But the real problem was the apathy of individuals whose works I had been taking so much interest in – and who kept away!
S: This was the unkindest cut of all…
B: Absolutely, a pretty bleak scene.
S: This thing of darkness…
B: I tell you, it felt lousy – all abandoned.
S: When beggars die there are no comets seen…
B: No comets at all! Absolutely none! What to do now?
S: Asses are made to bear, and so are you…
B: For how long?
S: Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow...
B: Until I turn into…
S: How now? A rat? Dead, for a ducat, dead!
B: And here I was gloating on making it to FP.
S: Lord, what fools these mortals be!
B: Thanks for messing up my evening. Are you happy now?
S: Now go we in content …
B: Good night!
S: Good night, good night! Parting is such sweet...
B: Good grief! Now where did I put that broom!

(Shakespeare, sensing impending violence, darts out of the doorway)

Re#58 by miriamk

Dear Ma’m,

I am very appreciative of your taking the time to visit this page. As a debut (and for all I know – perhaps as a flash in the pan (let me be honest here!)) the moral support is important and I very much value it! Thanks a lot and again, it is truly appreciated!

You are probably right about the rhyme – loosening it would enable a larger pool of words to choose from and therefore perhaps a more appropriate and nuanced selection of words and sentences. Lay people like this interactor are clearly more comfortable with the janitorial efforts associated with rhyming rather than focusing strictly on the message – and giving it a song-like flow – which is much more difficult, like Mr. Madani pointed out. This is even more complex if one wishes to avoid bringing in several words whose understanding is kind of taken for granted in the original but which are much more difficult to communicate in janitorial English terms – for example, words like birati, maya, khal, kul-sad-dharma are all concepts that are more easily understood in my own mind than explained through an analogous word in English. I am absolutely sure it is fully do-able – the only limitation being my own prowess and the available time – and it`s the same way perhaps for others, too – that’s probably the reason I am unable to find stuff of this nature on the web. I usually try to look for the simplest words which can capture the spirit (or at least a big chunk of that spirit).

I wish you all the best.

Sincerely,
Beej.

Re#55 Ahmedmadani

Dear Mr. Madani,

I am glad you liked the translation. As for me, I liked the translating. And just in case there are any doubts about it, I am not a poet – some have even accused me of being a janitor – others have accused me of being various other things which they see in their nightmares!

My reference to “kafir sensing” missiles was from a previous interact of yours and I am very much sure that you had used it in jest. I agree that terms like “kafir” and “Paki” are derogatory and should not be used by decent people – there is nothing funny about such terms! I have made analogous statements elsewhere.

I understand your point about comments/interacts taking a life of their own and diverging from the topic at hand – at times becoming a wrestling match – there are a lot of mud wrestlers around here. On this board, I have tried to keep the focus on the subject topic by staying more engaged than many authors who usually just like to watch and have fun while they sit on their posteriors – talk about lazy bums – and I have continued to talk about Tulsidas – perhaps more than suits the tastes of the usual culprits – the mud-wallowers!

Thanks for the information regarding those distinguished singers of yore! I understand what you say about using the term “exclusive” in a positive sense.

All the best to you.

Sincerely,
Beej.

Beej:

Beej on the fp?!! (thumbs up wala icon). Good to see you here.

Khair…on to the subject at hand. I confess my complete ignorance of the Ramcharitmanas. But from your interacts (especially those to ahmedmadani and kaal ji), it`s evident this was an enriching experience for you. That alone can be important and inspirational. The significance of the classics in any language or culture can’t be overstated. So, I’m glad you decided to take the time to translate and bring this to chowk readers.

A comment about rhyme scheme since it has been brought up. I’m just wondering in cases of translation; would it be more important to retain the rhyme or instead sacrifice some of it to retain the essential spirit of the original text.

(Mr. Ahmedmadani, please hold on a bit while I talk for a minute with this person.)

Re#56 Burpinder

[Talk about post-whoring, some 28 of these 56 posts have been by Beej himself! Must be a new record on chowk. Congrats.]

Yes Burp, I fully understand that you can count – you and another interactor have already demonstrated that level of sophistication. Now go ahead and prove to me and the rest of the crowds here that you can also READ – by commenting on the contents of those interacts – not to mention the subject piece itself!

Better still, why don’t you go ahead and bring to us portions of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib – I am sure people here will be enriched by it – and it will also help many people, who probably do not think too much about such things – to develop a better understanding of the importance of this Book to the Sikh psyche – how it makes the Sikhs who they are – and in turn and consequently, it makes India the country that it is!

For example, why don’t you start with the following beautiful lines from the Raag Gauree:

This mind listens to the Vedas, the Puraanas, and the ways of the Holy Saints, but it does not sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, for even an instant.

Having obtained this human body, so very difficult to obtain, it is now being uselessly wasted. Emotional attachment to Maya is such a treacherous wilderness, and yet, people are in love with it.

Inwardly and outwardly, God is always with them, and yet, they do not enshrine Love for Him. O Nanak, know that those whose hearts are filled with the Lord are liberated.

O mother, if only someone would instruct my wayward mind.

Holy Saadhus: rest and peace are in the Sanctuary of the Lord. This is the blessing of studying the Vedas and the Puraanas, that you may meditate on the Name of the Lord.

Greed, emotional attachment to Maya, possessiveness, the service of evil, pleasure and pain - those who are not touched by these, are the very embodiment of the Divine Lord.

Heaven and hell, ambrosial nectar and poison, gold and copper - these are all alike to them. Praise and slander are all the same to them, as are greed and attachment.

They are not bound by pleasure and pain - know that they are truly wise. O Nanak, recognize those mortal beings as liberated, who live this way of life.

O mind, why have you gone crazy? Don`t you know that your life is decreasing, day and night? Your life is made worthless with greed.

That body, which you believe to be your own, and your beautiful home and spouse - none of these is yours to keep. See this, reflect upon it and understand.

You have wasted the precious jewel of this human life; you do not know the Way of the Lord of the Universe. You have not been absorbed in the Lord`s Feet, even for an instant. Your life has passed away in vain!

Says Nanak, that man is happy, who sings the Glorious Praises of the Lord`s Name. All the rest of the world is enticed by Maya; they do not obtain the state of fearless dignity.

You people are unconscious; you should be afraid of sin. Seek the Sanctuary of the Lord, Merciful to the meek, Destroyer of all fear.

The Vedas and the Puraanas sing His Praises; enshrine His Name within your heart. Pure and sublime is the Name of the Lord in the world. Remembering it in meditation, all sinful mistakes shall be washed away.

You shall not obtain this human body again; make the effort - try to achieve liberation! Says Nanak, sing of the Lord of compassion, and cross over the terrifying world-ocean.

Thank you, Burpinder!

Talk about post-whoring, some 28 of these 56 posts have been by Beej himself! Must be a new record on chowk. Congrats.

DM is right about ``Geet gopal``. Recently I am not in best mental health and do make mistakes and blunders about simple things. Due to that I do feel happy.

Mr. Beej your translation is fine in fact you have done best as a professional not in field of such things. I liked the translation. My remark was about the general words disposed as poem with out any form and no possibility of humming.( Any father with marriagible daughter when hear some young boy makes poem is alarm). Poem is most difficult artform as its synthesis of imagination, construction and spiritual distillation.

Some verse can be as beautiful as poems ( I mean compared real poems)

I used to use Kaffir or Kufr but after thinking refrain from useing at all though it may have slipped and may be used as little pun, joke or humor. Similary people useing ``Paki`` word is not good its is not fun but derogatory. Even English Judge recently warned not to use such term or will be considerd as hateful speech.

About comment regarding is content is funny thing. Most times comments are better than main article and as number of comments pile up the content diverges exponentionally and no sane person can estimate from last 20 comments what can be article about as there is no logic after 20 comments.

Some comment by few chosen people are same on any topic and its lots raw heat of Lahore and humidity of Karachi and no fire or light.

There are some people who just love starting some explosion and some people like YLH get in chain reaction and many just like watching chain reaction and predicting well path bitten answers. Its like flow chart and goes in infinite loops. It appears topics of Jinnah and Feudalism is like enreached Urenium to start chain reaction.

I do not know much about music scene as have not ventured outside home for few years due to anxity problems. I like Kirana style best for they know how to take tans and they are so melodious they are not so sofesticated snobs regarding purity of notes like Jaypur group also like second most group of Gwalior singing as they are so beautiful in flow Jaypur are best in Purity of notes and its worth listening to them at same time tanpura and how they move together. I like Ustad Abdul Karim Khan the best. ( Mr. Harimao mentioned a site south asia women/ music repository- It has excellent treasures like rare recordings like Abdul Karim in Khayal. Other source is Musicindiaonline.) There is group of Kirana singers in Karachi and Ustad teaches. Obviously the quality is not good as they do not have financial support and do full time jobs. They do for love of Kirana singing. Abdul Wahid khan migrated to Lahore in 1947 but he died very soon in Lahore. Due to trailblazing singing of Abdul Karim Khan his cousin ( Wahid Khan) never got much recognization. Luckly I like all singers of all Gayakis who sing well.

Cultured person or culture is problem as some feel the exclusiveness. This is real problem and numbers win . Barbarians always win in long term. ( Is just no good for nothing and averaging is more meritted, to be exclusive means to be better is kind of crime as you are then snob and not part of Awam and masses are asses)

Thanks for noting once I mentioned beautiful things in simple mathematics . Its like painting there are impressionist artists and expressionist artists in mathematics both concentrate it make you think about abstract things and normal day to day things at same time. Some are straight forward ways and some are artistic ways. So difficult , so simple and subtle way things are resolved, like art look easy but difficult to make such thing.

good luck everybody. Have good October.

#53 Kaalchakra

Thanks Kaal,

Okay, finally you are off the hook!

Thanks for the positive reaction.

The absolute truth is I felt I was rewarded by the act of doing it – I really do. It has been one of the most beautiful feelings I have ever felt in my life – when I was working on this little piece – perhaps what people call a “high”– except it was from the inside!

I fully agree about this Book being one of the most exquisitely written and lovely texts. Also, the reality (or my personal reality) is one does not have to know a lot about the background of the author to enjoy this Book.

It is just mind-boggling that something that took only a little over two years to write continues to command the level of popularity that it does now – over four hundred years later – Tulsi has a way of “connecting” with his masses at the most basic level – nobody ever had to push this book to its readers – and perhaps never will have to!

I recommend “picking it up” more often – I certainly try to.

[We sometimes don’t appreciate the full import of the Mahakavi’s decision to simplify the message, the characters, the plot, and the language of a beloved ancient story. He brought it down to a level that we in the villages could understand it, could identify with it, and could love it with all our heart.]
Absolutely! As far as its past importance is concerned, I remember reading somewhere that but for Tulsidas and Ramcharitmanas – and this is for the information of our Muslim friends – India WOULD have become almost fully Islamized perhaps under the Moghul empire, but apparently this work helped Hindus develop a unified identity rather than a bunch of separate Hindu sects – keeping Hinduism around and viable.

[What was that they say about Surdas and Tulsidas, “Sur soor tulsi sashi?”]
It goes
{Sur soor, Tulsi shashi – wood-gun Keshav Das}
{Anya kavi khadyot sum – it-ut karahin prakash}
The meaning is easy enough to guess – Surdas is like the sun (lighting up the day), Tulsi is like the moon (lighting up the night), the poet Keshav Das is like those blinking stars, and the rest of the poets are like lightning-bugs – those illuminating dots here and there.

I quote the following interesting extracts from the Poet-Seers web site:

“Tulasi is so magnificent in telling the episodes, whether it is Bharata’s lamentation on arrival at Ayodhaya, kaikeyi in the chamber, or the conversation of Narada and Rama, that it is extremely moving and coherent. Tulasi is so passionately devoted to Lord Rama that by the sheer liveliness of his poetic imagination, he brings into life Rama, not as a son of Dasartha but as a qualified incarnation of Vishnu and also as Brahman itself. Yes, the same Brahman which the vedas and upanishads struggle to define and comprehend and resort to negativity as ‘neti neti’ (not this, not this). The basic religious principle of Tulasi can be found in the Uttarakanda of the Manas in the dialogue between Garuda and Bhushundi. As Tulasi points out, the name Rama means ‘like a sun who dispels the darkness of ignorance.’ Tulasi’s Rama is thus Satchitananda. He is the all prevading Brahman and as Shiva says ‘the story of Rama is an axe which fells the tree of Kaliyuga.’

Though bhakti in all its glory, it is also advaitic. Often, he lets debates and long verses interrupt the storyline to pour a whole philosophy of advaita. However, neither the intregity or the unity of the story is ever lost….. When the senses are controlled, discrimination is cultivated. With discrimination, the essence of real and unreal is ascertained and with this and the Grace of Rama itself -mukti is obtained. Tulasi stresses the importance of loss of the individual in attaining the supreme state of bliss.

Some scholars have noted that Tulasidas is Kalidas of Hindi literature. Actually, he is much more. Kalidas was a great sanskrit poet, and there is no doubt of that, but he did not spread a social and bhakti movement. Whether it is in usage of rasa, similes or metaphors, Tulasidas parellels and even exceeds the versatality of Kalidas. Another issue is the use of various chandas (meters). Kalidas is a deft poet who in his Raghuvamsha literally plays with the language. Tulasi is not far behind, he also uses many meters including anushtubh, totaka, vamshastha, to name a few.

Tulasi, as many who preceded him like Abhinavagupta, holds that rasa is the main characteristic of a kavya. Among the many rasa (sentiments), the common ones are love (rati), grief (shoka), hasya (humor), krodha (anger), utasha (energy), bhaya (fear). He brings out the beauty of love when Rama and Sita meet in the garden of Janaka, the grief in the separation of Rama from Sita, the energy when Rama encounters the demons, the anger in Kaikeyi, the fear when describing the evil spirits. These are just a small sample of the various rasa-s described by Tulasi.

Next is the use of similes. Rama’s wedding, according to Tulasi, is in spring; his departure to the forest is in the heat of summer; a blessing to the gods is in the rainy season (indicating showering); the rule of Rama in the season of pleasantness - autumn; the character of Bharata is that of coolness (equanimity) etc. Even the constant repetitions of certain phrases like ‘lotus feet’, ‘streaming eyes’, ‘quivering frame’ etc have their use. Tulasi’s ramayana is not meant for recitation or debating but for reading and rereading. It is an epic which moves the reader so much that one is marvelled by the skill of Tulasidas. He, not only provides hope and security in the midst of an ever-changing world, but also provides a sanctuary of love and peace. Tulasi shines like a lamp of divine guidance and by the light generated by Manasa dispels the ignorance into knowledge and wisdom.

Tulasidas was not writing a biography of Rama, but expressing a love towards Lord Rama in his work.”

Beej

I know very little about RamCharit Manas except that it is one of the most exquisitely written texts ever, and certainly the loveliest that I have seen. That everytime I have picked it up, its dohas, its chhands, and its chaupais have never failed to amaze and inspire me. That it`s incomprehensible how one person could be so gifted.

What was that they say about Surdas and Tulsidas, ``Sur soor tulsi sashi?``

We sometimes don`t appreciate the full import of the Mahakavi`s decision to simplify the message, the characters, the plot, and the language of a beloved ancient story. He brought it down to a level that we in the villages could understand it, could identify with it, and could love it with all our heart.

You undertook a difficult challenge and did a commendable job.

Re#43 by Ahmedmadani (additional thoughts)

And here are a couple of things that I somehow missed.

I agree with the statement that you make regarding the importance of rhyme in poetry and the compromises that sometimes need to be accepted (the “acceptable loss”). I had to work real hard to come up with whatever rhyme I did come up with – it was not 100 percent satisfactory – but optimized – from my viewpoint. As I told another interactor – there is a lot of hard work, perhaps drudgery, associated with poetry – somewhat similar to a well-coded piece of computer software which needs to appear to the user the easiest thing under the sky – without any need to know about the millions of lines of code that had to be crafted. And of course the reader needs to be able to understand the little things and the fine things – although the term “cultured” can be misused in a selective, subjective, and exclusionary manner.

Regarding the loss of classics, one POSITIVE advantage of the computer revolution is that a lot more of the past information, including classics and other creative works can be digitized and archived and perhaps made available on-line for future generations – to those who seek it. In that sense, some of that good stuff will never be “lost”!

An internet infrastructure revolution in the Indian subcontinent can bring about magic in there – magic a little like the telecommunications revolution has already brought, but on a much larger scale and touching every aspect of life – magic that we can at this time only imagine – and the resources for so long denied to its creative minds – and especially its young creative minds.

We live in interesting times indeed, but it is within our power to make them GOOD interesting times!