The Rainy Season

Beej-ji,

Thank you for your translation. I specially like that you chose to highlight the theme
of ``nature`` and the season of rains in india. Anyone who has lived through an indian summer followed by the first rains (and then the 10th :-) has a sense of the joy and exhilaration and of re-birth that accompanies the first few weeks of rain.

But your translation also highlights the author who, of course, is either considered a male-chauvinist demon or a great bhakta and avatar of valmiki. What is your opinion of him?

Obviously, not an easy question but:

(1) Is it the case that by translating ramayana into hindi, he had to face censure and hatred from the sanskrit-oriented hindu establishment?

(2) Are there any details of his life available? How did he acquire his learning?

(3) How would you compare his writing to Kabir?

BTW, I have been reading a beautiful translation of Kabir dohas and bhajans into English. Sad to say that while I read kabir in the hindi as a boy it was taught so HORRIBLY that I got nothing out of it. So this has been a real discovery for me and I plan to re-read him in the original.

Here is one of my favourites, though it has a more serious tone than your excerpt:

``jhini jhini bini chadariya``

He wove the sheet
so fine, so fine
He wove the sheet so fine.

What was the warp?
What was the weft?
What was the thread
with which he wove the sheet?

Ingala and Pingala,
the warp, the weft
Suhsumna the thread
which he wove the sheet.

He spins the eight-petakked lotus
as his spinning wheel,
with five elements
and three great qualities.

He weaves the sheet.

He weaves the sheet
through ten months
in a mother`s womb,
beating in the weft.

testing and checking
every strand,
He weaves the sheet.

Saints and human
wrap themselves in his sheet,
but the wrapping soils the sheet,
so fine, so fine.

His servant Kabir
wraps himself in the sheet,
with effort and care,
he keeps it spotlessly clean.

this sheet, so fine, so fine,...


FROM:

Kabir: The weaver`s songs
by Vinay Dharwadker, Penguin India, 2003.

Re#15 by burpinder

Sat Sri Akal to you also, my dear! And for good measure, may I add “Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa!”, and “Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!”, too! (and for rest of this board, unless there is reason to believe or do otherwise – let me – for the sake of discussion, assume that you are indeed “Burpinder” from Delhi (as distinct from, say, Delhi-ite from U.S.))

[Only thing most sirdarjees abhor is the cigaarit. Don`t ask me why.]

My dear Burpinder, I certainly do not mean to tell you regarding your “own” religion. Now-a-days, it is well known that smoking is highly injurious to one’s health. However, it was not always so well understood. In light of that, it is quite remarkable that the 10th Guru saw its harmful effects and expressly prohibited it – as quoted below from a Sikhism website – so you don’t have to plead your ignorance again:

“… Guru Gobind Singh was once riding with his Sikhs when he suddenly stopped his horse and after dismounting proceeded to rip out a wild tobacco plant. The Sikhs asked why the Guru had ripped the plant out and the Guru replied that the Sikhs should avoid alcohol as it destroys a generation but tobacco destroys several generations. The Guru then forbade his Sikhs to ever use tobacco.”

More on other parts of your post a bit later!

Re#17 PMishra2

My dear Mishra jee,

Arrey bhai, kahan chhupe hue the aap abhee tuk?

Here I was – feeling sadder by the minute – and how slowly those minutes tick by – not a single serious question on this work – and lo and behold – I get your interact!

Dear Mishra-jee, YOU are the man after my own heart!

To satisfactorily address your questions, I must first cover a bit of background – perhaps more for the sake of others than for you. So, please bear this wear with me.

As you are well aware, although it is revered as an account of the life of Lord Rama, the Ramcharitmanas is not treated by the vast majority of masses like a book of religious commands, instructions, guidelines, or even tips – in the way for example, the Holy Bible is. It is just one interpretation of how Lord Rama lived his life – it’s Tulsidas’ account – who was obviously not an eye witness. Most people who read it, they just enjoy reading and singing it – I know I do, perhaps you do too – usually and especially on auspicious occasions.

It is quite well recognized that this Book contains a few controversial comments by Tulsidas – some of them reflect his own prejudices or those which prevailed in the society at large at the time. These included the treatment of the “low” castes and the stereotyping of women – these were and perhaps to some extent remain the unsavory aspects of our society, even in this twenty-first century, as can be evidenced on several contemporary boards.

The stereotyping of women perhaps was stronger in this instance because of Tulsidas’ own unfortunate experience – he left home after being lectured by his wife on why he should have devoted his attention to God instead of her body of flesh – this after Tulsidas had risked his life to get to her – legend has it that he crossed a swollen river by grabbing on to a bloated dead-body in order to keep afloat. I am not too knowledgeable in this area, but I am sure there are others here who can fill in more details.

The fact remains that most readers just love this Book, while few would deny some of its quirks – certain individual statements that lend themselves to criticism at the present time – most prefer to simply disregard them! That’s how it is, at the present time.

More to follow…

Re: # 17

Pmishra,

There is no denying the fact that Tulsidas rendered a great service by translating Ramayana to Ramcharitmanas. I believe, he lived around 16th century, and in that era, the Prakrit languages like Hindi, Punjabi, Bengali etc. were well evolved. It is highly likely that knowledge of Sanskrit was limited to few, and dwindling. Thanks to him, masses could read this epic in a language they could understand.

There is another aspect to his translation - devotion. Valmiki`s Ramayana treats Ram as a hero and draws his biographical sketch, whereas Tulsi elevates Ram to divinity. Ramcharitmanas is an ode by a devotee to his Lord. The `bhakta` has removed all the frailities of his character and in the process, rendered his work unsuitable for Historiography.

Now that Avadhi is just another of many dialects of Hindi and Khari Boli is the official dialect, we need another Tulsi to translate this to Hindi. Has it already been done?

#15 Burpinder (parts)
#16 vagabond786

Re: (your comments on poetry)

Please note my disclaimers in #3 and the additional explanations in #6 – this is an attempt at translation of a portion of Ramcharitmanas. The “poetry” or the flow of thoughts if you would like to refer it as such – was the Goswami’s – whose descendants (if only there had been any, alas!) would have been rolling in money – if only he had copyrighted the work back then – if only copyright laws had existed back then – if only LAWS had existed back then ….., etc.

Too many ‘if only’s, of course!

Any attempt at translation of a work like this (even portions) is a guaranteed failure, in my view – because really there is no way to communicate the essence exactly. Period.

The best one can do is to communicate what is one’s OWN perception of that essence – using the available tools in one’s own possession! Putting rhyme in there imposes additional but necessary compromises – and also individualizes it perhaps too much!

As regards the “poet-like” quality of the original work – most people who like to read the original enjoy it a LOT – perhaps a lot more than any contemporary pieces of literature. For your information, it is worthwhile pointing out that the Goswami never considered himself a poet.

For example, according to one web site:

“Tulasi … declares in the Manasa that he is no poet and he is imperfect and only sings the excellence of Rama according to his poor wit and understanding. This is the case in his other works Gitavali (1571), Kavitavali (1612), Barvairamayana (1612) and one of the best works, Vinaya Patrika (request to Rama).”

You get the picture, or do you?

11 out of 19....beej k singh...you talk too much...

....lemme make it 12 outta 22...54.54%....

aap hi likho
aap hi paRho
aur aap hi bolo
jai ho hamaar

Re#22 khamkhwa

[11 out of 19....beej k singh...you talk too much...]

My dear, I think it is okay to talk too much as long as one is not talking ``khamkhwah``.

Have you seen some of my interacts?!! (Or more accurately, measured them?)

Seriously, some of my interacts are just too long - but I like them that way (it has been said that brevity is the soul of the wit and there appears to be widespread agreement among chowkies that this interactor is both soulless and witless) - and so I need to break them into shorter pieces so that people can read the ones that applies to a specific part of the query.

My long and very frequent interacts are here to stay - and have been for a while - so get used to them! Yeah!

SO, SO SOWWYY!

#17 PMishra2 (parts)

[…the author who, of course, is either considered a male-chauvinist demon or a great bhakta and avatar of valmiki. What is your opinion of him?]

I gave a short answer earlier. He was a product of his times – with some of the biases of those times – which were not considered a big deal BACK THEN, but are obviously so now – with more enlightenment having set in. However, most people pay little REAL-TIME attention to his (now) controversial remarks in the Ramcharitmanas – except perhaps for quoting those for purposes of their own.

In terms of the individual that he was – he might even be considered a modern-day psychiatrist’s delight. (Whatever happened to that S3? (For once, I wish I had not scared him away like a “chooha”!)) I am sure they would LOVE to have him flat on his fanny parked on a couch, recounting his experiences in life discussing – for example, the turmoil he underwent when abandoned by parents, not cared for by relatives, bossed around by saadhus, and perhaps most importantly – taken to task by his wife.

The latter incident was the most significant in terms of his turning his focus solely to Rama, although he apparently had a devotee streak since early on.

Here are some “juicy” details (mostly for other interactors) on what drove Tulsidas to become what he became famous for.

Tulsidas, married to Ratnavati, was so attached to her that he could not bear even a moment’s separation. Apparently, she did not have an equally passionate and active style of companionship for it appears that she set a plot of sorts – her brother came visiting and she sent Tulsidas to fetch some vegetables in the marketplace – yeah, that old “get those vegetables” ruse – and when the poor guy returned, toiling under those loads of groceries, she had disappeared – with her brother, to visit her parents. Can you imagine what the poor guy must have gone through!

So, our man braves the stormy weather and goes after her. Apparently, to cross the swollen river, he grabs a floating bull’s carcass. When he gets to his in-law’s place, he climbs a vine or so (which apparently was a snake – one of those slithering things, you know) to enter her room. All of this he does without being aware that he is doing it – so focused is he on her! Far worse than a sixteenth century version of Romeo and Juliet, I tell you!

And then she lets him have it, of course! He says – that’s it! I’m going to Rama! The rest, of course, is history of sorts.

All this, and a lot more of the details are available at various web-sites including these: Tulsidas, Chronicler of the Ramayana, a site on poets and seers, and other sites.

More to follow... (How could y`all EVER guess?!!!)

Beej
Good choice of verses. The dangerous one is about freedom for women.. Throughout Ramcharitmanas Tulsidas shows himself to be a misogynist essentially(though he was generally respectful of his Sita). He clearly had problems with women- the question is whether his wife or mother-in-law was the root cause :).

In general, this is a brave attempt to get a doha/cchand like meter in English, which one can imagine is quite difficult - good luck with getting both the grammer and the poetic rhythm right. Perhaps you don`t need rhyming as well, as someone said.

To convey the essential meaning of the ``loaded`` vocabulary of the original while replicating not only the cadence is difficult too, I guess. The language has to be clear enough for someone coming cold to this to make sense of it, since concepts like maya/detachment/stillness of senses/vivek etc are not commonly understood.

Add to that having to transplant the overflowing sentiment of Tulsi. So- full marks to you for bravery in courting disaster.


Anyway, in straight reading of the Avadhi(which I don`t know) as a layman, I found some of the translations problematic so I looked at a Gita Press translation.


Some major quibbles:

{grihi bi-rati rut harash-jus, Vishnu bhagat kahun dekhi}

No more deadpan – now full of glee
Like Vishnu, when – sees devotee


--It is a `grihi` or `householder`, free from worldly desires, who is happy to see a Vishnu bhakt.



{harit-bhoomi trin-sankul, samujhi parahin nahin punth}

This ground all same – as grass grows free
All land looks green – no path to see

{jimi pakhund vivaad-te, loopt hohin sad-granth}

Like dogmas and rituals – they hide
All knowledge that – lies deep inside


--inside holy books. Just like unchecked grass hides the paths, the paakhund vivaad hides the knowledge inside the sad-granth(holy books).




{urk-jawas paat janu bhayaoo, jus suraaj khal uddwam gayaoo}

But trees, for some – not one leaf blade
When wicked rule – efforts not made


-- `suraaj` is good government, so it is not `when wicked rule` at all.

According to Gita Press `The leaves of the Aka and Javasa plants have fallen off even as under a good government, the plans of the wicked come to naught`



{sasi sampann soh mahi kaisi, up-kaari kai sampati jaisi}
All earth now rich – and beauty treads
As wealth earned for – altruistic deeds


--You left out a verse after that one:
{Nisi tam ghan khadhyot biraaja, janu dambhih kar mila samaja}

``In the thick darkness of the night, fireflies gleam like a gathering of hypocrites``




{Dekhiaat chakra-waak khug nahin, kalahin payee jimi dharma parahin}

And love-birds are – not seen around
So lost is faith – discords when hound


--kalahin - Kalayug. The Chakravaka birds are no more to be seen, just as virtues disappear with onset of the Kali Age. If you meant to omit the Kali Yug reference, OK then.




{Kabahun diwas mahan nibid tum, kabahunk pragat patang}

At times, the day – looks dark, as dusk
Yet lights it up – when sun does lurk

{binasain upajat gyan jimi, payee kusang susang}

So knowledge – will enhance, or not
As band would we – with good, or rot


--That knowledge is obscured in kusang(bad company), and manifest in susang( good company) doesn`t come through in translation.




Some minor quibbles

- Bees not wasps.
- beloved better than darling.
- forgo not the right part of speech, a noun is needed there.
-`khal ki preet` is `friendship/love of the wicked` not wicked love


{nav pallav bhaye bitap aneka, saadhak man jus mile viveka}

And look, new leaf – on trees abound
Good judgment by – true trainee found

-saadhak is one who strives. Seeker might be closer than trainee.



{bibidh jantu sankul mahi bhraja, praja baadh jimi payee suraja}
Many creatures, large – and small, arrive
In freedom, masses – live and thrive

-again, suraaj is good government, not zactly freedom.

Re#17 PMishra2 (last part (hopefully) of a LONG answer (sounds of panting!))

[(3) How would you compare his writing to Kabir? ]

My dear Mishra-jee, I must admit that you had me absolutely stupified (if the janitor were around he would have dropped the “fie” portion of it) with this sixer out of the field! Wow! Or as we like to say back home – “mare gaye gulfaam!”

Since I did not know a whole lot on this issue, I did some web search to try to come up with an answer. Here is my “short” summary – based on the web (before anybody else says so – and it is from wikipedia, in particular) though I did try to condense a bit to make life easy for those (lazy) folks of chowk.

The medieval Hindi literature is marked by the influence of Bhakti movement and the composition of long, epic poems. Avadhi and Braj were the dialects in which literature was developed. Bhakti poetry had two schools – the Nirguna school (the believers of a formeless God or an abstract name) and the Saguna school (the believers of a God with attributes and worshippers of Vishnu`s incarnations).

Kabir and Guru Nanak belonged to the Nirguna school, while Vaishnava poets like Surdas, Tulsidas and others belonged to the Saguna school.

Kabir’s writings preach an ideal of seeing all of humanity as one. His monist philosophies and ideas of loving devotion to God are expressed in metaphor and language from both the Hindu Vedanta and Bhakti streams and Muslim Sufi ideals. His greatest work – the Bijak, or Seedling (but not necessarily related to my nick) demonstrates his own universal view of spirituality. His vocabulary is constantly full of ideas regarding Brahman and Hindu ideas of karma and reincarnation, yet he also espouses ideas that are clearly Sufi as well – as Hindu Bhakti understandings of God. His Hindi was a very vernacular, straightforward kind, much like his philosophies. He often advocated leaving aside the Qur`an and Vedas and to simply follow Sahaj path, or the Simple/Natural Way to oneness in God. He believed in the Vedantic concepts of atman and yet spurned the orthodox Hindu societal caste system and worship of statues, thus showing clear belief in both bhakti and sufi ideas.

Goswami Tulsidas’ doctrine is derived from Ramanuja through Ramananda. Like him, he believes in a supreme personal God, i.e., Saguna not in Nirguna Brahman of Shankaracharya – the Lord Himself took the human form, and became incarnate, for the blessing of mankind, as Rama. The body is therefore to be honored, not despised. Tulsi venerates the whole Hindu pantheon, and is especially careful to give Shiva or Mahadeva his due, and to point out that there is no inconsistency between devotion to Rama and attachment to Shiva. But the practical end of all his writings is to inculcate bhakti addressed to Rama as the great means of salvation and emancipation from the chain of births and deaths, a salvation which is available to everyone. His particular style of writing is perhaps well-described in this quotation from Dr. George A. Grierson, an early-20th-century translator and anthologist of vernacular Hindi literature, who says the following of the Ramcharitmanas: “… no one can read it in the original without being impressed by it as the work of a great genius. Its style varies with each subject. There is the deep pathos of the scene in which is described Rama`s farewell to his mother; the rugged language depicting the horrors of the battlefield – a torrent of harsh sounds clashing against each other and reverberating from phrase to phrase; and, as occasion requires, a sententious, aphoristic method of narrative, teeming with similes drawn from nature herself, and not from the traditions of the schools. His characters, too, live and move with all the dignity of an heroic age. Each is a real being, with a well-defined personality. Rama, perhaps too perfect to enlist all our sympathies; his impetuous and loving brother Lakshmana; the tender, constant Bharata; Sita, the ideal of an Indian wife and mother; Ravana, destined to failure, and fighting with all his demon force against his destiny, the Satan of the epic. All these are characters as lifelike and distinct as any in occidental literature.”

My bottom line is: I would have liked BOTH these folks – spending time back and forth with each, to make life more interesting!

Back to you, sir, AT LAST!

(Collapsing, getting up, and heading for lunch.)

Re#17 Pmishra2 (an afterthought)

(Back from lunch)

Clearly, Mishra-jee, there is a lot more to those old adages than people give them credit for. Take this one for example:

Bhookhe bhajan na hoheen Gopala!

As soon as I had my first bite of lunch, I realized that I did not respond to the poem you quoted from Kabir – “jhini jhini bini chadariya.”

I believe it is just beautiful! Of course it is! It also illustrates the problems one can run into in communicating that beauty – that the only way to accomplish this beauty is by dispensing with the rhyme and picking words to communicate the underlying idea in the closest possible way – even then, it will probably never have the touch, the feel, the flavor, and the contentment that one would derive from the original! No doubt about it!

Thanks a lot for putting it up. Perhaps you can also provide information, if available, on how people could order/obtain a copy of this book and perhaps other books like that.

#25, 27, 28 Beej

Thanks for your detailed responses. It is a pleasure to meet an enthusiast of our bhakti poets.


I agree the poetry is so subtle and compact it is impossible to translate with the full flavor of the original. There is also so much reference to different indic ideas -- mukti, nirvana, etc. that it can be quite puzzling.

Tulsidas and Kabir are an interesting pair. While not quite contemporary they worked only a 100 years apart.

Kabir is a tough guy to like: his poems are sharp as glass and sometimes downright nasty. At the same time his emphasis on individuals being responsible for themselves, direct relationship to god and on ethical living is very suited to modern times. He is also a misogynist, BTW, his references to women are often in poor taste.

Tulsidas, of course, has this wonderful material of rama katha available. Colorful, full of life, sorrow and joy, war and peace, the whole nine yards (american football metaphor meaning fullness and plenty). But at the same time, in this skeptical age of science, it is hard for me to accept divine heroes of anykind.

I guess it is like comparing rossogolla to idli-sambhar. I love them both but at different times and for different reasons....

Re#29 PMishra2

[Tulsidas, of course, has this wonderful material of rama katha available. Colorful, full of life, sorrow and joy, war and peace, the whole nine yards (american football metaphor meaning fullness and plenty). But at the same time, in this skeptical age of science, it is hard for me to accept divine heroes of anykind.]
I believe I understand exactly where you are coming from. Personally, I have absolutely NO problem enjoying the Ramcharitmanas - just by reading it - without trying to make justifications for EVERYTHING in there - or having to agree with (and so not having to defend) EVERYTHING in this written work by one individual.

[I guess it is like comparing rossogolla to idli-sambhar. I love them both but at different times and for different reasons....]
I fully agree! Kabir has a charm unlike anybody else - all his own!!

At last - a meeting of minds - Hallelujah!!!

On to the next on the list.

Ms. Sadna, I am on my way - do not let go of those horses just yet! Thanks.

Re#26 Sadna (Part 1 of 3)

Goodbye Mishra-jee, HEL-LO Sadna!!

Dear Ma’m,

Before I respond to your questions (at length, as I am sure you would have guessed from the format of the first line) let me please extend my sincerest thanks to you for taking the time to read the whole write-up and provide me the detailed feedback that you have provided!

I find this REFRESHING and in STARK contrast to the behavior of certain other “regular” interactors and self-proclaimed upholders of the underdog – yes, THOSE “do-goodies” who do not have the ability or courage to read THIS work – while they flock up spell-bound, in droves, like those proverbial “bees” that Tulsidas alluded to – bees of the “the birds and the bees” group – to a parallel board in search for what REALLY titillates their senses – while they falsely proclaim it titillates their intellect!

Ah, how the mightier they portray themselves – how much harder they take the plunge and how much flatter they fall – that inevitable fall of selling out – to crass commercialism – the commercialism of three letter words starting with “S” and four letter words starting with “R”, not to mention country names starting with “P”!

Red herrings them all, yet such is the toll – onward they roll – like those mighty juiced-up male (and perhaps female) elephants at a certain stage in life – hormones rushing faster than a speeding bullet – with a unique “junoon” in a league all its own!

If I might draw from the motivational songs of the Washington Redskins – that mighty pro-football team (although unfortunately not presently reflected in their season record):

“Hail to the chowkies! Hail hip-po-criss-see!”

Oh well! Enough railing at those clouds of darkness! Let us TRY together to shine some light of knowledge – at least in this one, solitary, and VERY desolate corner of this chowk world!


[The dangerous one is about freedom for women. Throughout Ramcharitmanas Tulsidas shows himself to be a misogynist essentially (though he was generally respectful of his Sita). He clearly had problems with women – the question is whether his wife or mother-in-law was the root cause :)]

I touched upon this earlier in #19 and #25. Perhaps it is time to “arrest” the culprit text in this piece and put it up for a full-blown trial.

Goswami Tulsidas:
{maha-vrishti chali phatee kiyaree, jimi sutantra bhaye big-ruhin naari}

Approximate Translation:
Torrential rains have filled up farming plots of land and the water breaks the boundary edges and overflows – just like women left free run amok – all spoilt.

The Beej version:
Those great rains break – banks, edges go
As left all free – blight women so

On first look, especially from today’s vantage point – it does appear to kind of put the women exactly where T-Bhai would call the “bottom of the totem pole” (that term is further elaborated upon in #3). But if we look back, in those times, more often than not, it WAS the commonly prevailing view – THE woman was the embodiment of the proverbial maya – that classical obstacle to achieving the ultimate – the achievement of nirvana – the woman being the ultimate siren which keeps those celestial tunes from flowing unhindered through the cores of the souls of those male moles – and stops those beings from fleeing to their ultimate stop – that desired destination of the divine for the devoted!

For example, how often we read in Hindu mythology about the saints doing tapasya – away from the probing eyes of other humans and ESPECIALLY from the probing eyes of those charming members of the fair sex!

How many times Indra, that troublemaker of all troublemakers, dispatched his ultimate weapon of massive destruction – that fair Main-ka – to nip in the bud those heavy-duty tapasya-carrying sanyasis! Heck, even Lord Shiva was not immune from the charms of those beautiful maidens – the third eye notwithstanding, and alas, how many ladies underwent instant conversion to ash-dust – the blame would NEVER fall on the male for his own weakness – it was ALWAYS considered the woman’s fault!

Even during Ram Rajya wasn’t it the lady Sita – and a pregnant lady Sita at that – the very lady Sita who is an object of pining by Lord Rama even in this description of the rainy season – who had to pay the price of banishment whereas Lord Rama – whose sentiments or pride were hurt because “people were talking” – continued to grace that throne, like an unmovable stone!

Such was life – back in those days! And why stop in those days only! Did the Mahatma ever seek Kastur Ba’s opinion before he decided to go the way of brahma-charees. The answer, of course is – big fat chance!

And perhaps the other side of the coin, too often missed, needs to be considered too – virtually ALL women were comfortable with and accepted this mythical blame – and cooperated with their dominant oppressor, of sorts!

Therefore, when Ratnavati admonished Tulsidas for chasing her a little too aggressively, she (perhaps inadvertently) provided a spark into what was already a very dry and combustible composition of gunpowder – and it exploded in no uncertain terms! He wrapped Bhakti all around himself – and focused on Rama – from which corner no surprises were likely to come his way and he entered an arrangement with Rama which he had perhaps been conditioned to envision a LONG time ago – and the results were perhaps much to the chagrin and sadness of Ratnavati!

I hesitate in using the term misogynist – I don’t know what a better term would be. I do not think an active “hate” was involved – it was more like a fear of bumping into something which could overpower him – so he actively denounced it, sort of an “insurance policy” to keep his distance.

Alas, ma’m, at this point my desire for a diet beverage overcomes my desire for continuing stimulating interaction – so I must break.

But I promise to return, in a jiffy, as much as practicable!

Sincerely,
Beej.

beej:

while you go on murderous rampages …ok verbal assaults;)…between meals and drinks and sleep and ….(shudder!)…i have been busy elsewhere delineating a crystal clear pecking order...a totem pole that will finally establish the women when many of us have been proclaiming them to be….so i will momentarily suspend that project and come here to write these words

my introduction to tulsidas ( I confess) was rather pedestrian…owe to m f hussain…but i will ( also confess) I enjoyed this translation and your interacts…

may i digress? ( it is an affliction with me)

i like better some of the narrative reminisces and stories in your ilog … way better than this…

rgds

t