Get off her back…

Re:#309 by tvarad

[Do you bear a similar grudge against the British who systematically stripped India of it`s wealth causing deaths by famine on a massive scale?]

No. Because it`s not the same.

It is different than butchering innocent men, women and children for the glory of Allah.

#297 by FarzanaVersey on September 17, 2005 6:16am PT


I am being offered a choice of home (CAIR) in the US…thank you.


We`re only looking out for you...As part of CAIR, you`d be around your wahhabi friends...but you still get to wear jeans, have an uncovered hear, drive a car and enjoy a 80Rs coffee...

#304 by Ajeya on September 17, 2005 8:43am PT


There’s many many more where those came from.


You mean this?

Re:#306 by stuka

[Not that I have that kinda education either, but I am not flaunting my degree.]

As you correctly point out, a master`s degree in Computer Science is no big deal. Because the competetion here is so less here, most anybody can get into the millions of open seats in the thousands of Universities here, and get a degree.

It seeemed to me that Khamkhwa was suggesting in post #302 that my wife`s fears are ridiculous.

The reference to the degree was to underline the point that I actually have some idea of what I am talking about as far as computer security is concerned. (read post #301).

Re: # 304

The rulers you refer to and indeed many other medieval rulers used religion as an excuse to quench their thirst for blood. Their motivation was pillage and massacre like any self-respecting marauder of that time. Like Nadir Shah who spared no one, Hindu or Muslim when he laid waste to Delhi. As far as Akbar`s siege of Chitor was concerned, he gave the rulers the option of capitulating but they did not. Again, it was not motivated by religion but by the desire for land and tribute.

Do you bear a similar grudge against the British who systematically stripped India of it`s wealth causing deaths by famine on a massive scale?

re: Stuka # 306

That sounds like Yoginder Sikand type of translation. :)

Where did you find it?

Re:#306 by Stuka

[And Ajeya, most people on Chowk have graduate degrees. If anything, your MS Computer Science demonstrates that u are a 100% geek and have no formal education in socio-economic issues.]


Better that, than be a pink-tinged (to borrow from Harimau) flamer.

:-)

``Ok you broad minded Hindu if you don`t consider the murders of Hindus and Buddists in Afghanistan and present Pakistan. They named a mountain range after the killing of Hindus even today they call it `Hindu Kush`.``

JEEZ!!!!!! What kind of morons come on Chowk????? Hindu Kush is not ``Killer of Hindus``. It roughly translates into killer of Hind and was named such because the mountain was the greatest natural obstacle on the passage to India from Central Asia and was responsible for the death of many in its passage. It can roughly be translated as ``Killer of Hind``.

For those too dumb to understand, figure out Hind Ka Qatil, rather than Hinduon Ka Qatil.

Jeez!!

And Ajeya, most people on Chowk have graduate degrees. If anything, your MS Computer Science demonstrates that u are a 100% geek and have no formal education in socio-economic issues. Not that I have that kinda education either, but I am not flaunting my degree. Also, since you were a geek, it can be safely inferred that u were prolly teased and beaten up in school and found solace in historical fantasy and grievances as an escape route. Typical of most rightwing fanatics who tend to be socially inept morons.

Re: #302

[...hahahahahahaha...what an idiot...i`m sure this guy is a muslim masquerading a hindoo, coz no hindoo can be that stupid...right harimau...;)]

Actually what my wife is saying is not beyond the pale.

I have a master`s degree in Computer science. How about you?

Re: tvarad

I’ll try to cut and paste from a few of my earlier posts:

The policy of putting a conquered people to the sword was introduced by the Muslim invaders. HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PRISONERS were slaughtered. Women and children forced into slavery – sexual or otherwise.

This barbaric practice was introduced in India by the Muslims.

A couple of examples:

• In 1360, Firoz Shah Tughlaq attacked an island on the sea-coast where ``nearly 100,000 men of Jajnagar had taken refuge with their women, children, kinsmen and relations``. The swordsmen of Islam turned ``the island into a basin of blood by the massacre of the unbelievers``. A worse fate overtook the Hindu women. Sirat-i-Firuz Shahs records: ``Women with babies and pregnant ladies were haltered, manacled, fettered and enchained, and pressed as slaves into service in the house of every soldier.``

• During Timur`s invasion in 1399 he quotes the Quran in his Tuzk-i-Timuri: ``O Prophet, make war upon the infidels and unbelievers, and treat them severely.`` He continues: ``My great object in invading Hindustan had been to wage a religious war against the infidel Hindus...[so that] the army of Islam might gain something by plundering the wealth and valuables of the Hindus.`` To start with he stormed the fort of Kator on the border of kashmir. He ordered his soldiers ``to kill all the men, to make prisoners of women and children, and to plunder and lay waste all their property``.
Next, he ``directed towers to be built on the mountain of the skulls of those obstinate unbelievers``. Soon after, he laid siege to Bhatnir defended by Rajputs. They surrendered after some fight, and were pardoned. But Islam did not bind Timur to keep his word given to the ``unbelievers``. His Tuzk-i-Timuri records: ``In a short space of time all the people in the fort were put to the sword, and in the course of one hour the heads of 10,000 infidels were cut off. The sword of Islam was washed in the blood of the infidels, and all the goods and effects, the treasure and the grain which for many a long year had been stored in the fort became the spoil of my soldiers. They set fire to the houses and reduced them to ashes, and they razed the buildings and the fort to the ground.``
By now Timur had captured 100,000 Hindus. As he prepared for battle against the Tughlaq army after crossing the Yamuna, his Amirs advised him ``that on the great day of battle these 100,000 prisoners could not be left with the baggage, and that it would be entirely opposed to the rules of war to set these idolators and enemies of Islam at liberty``. Therefore, ``no other course remained but that of making them all food for the sword``. Tuzk-i-Timuri continues: ``I proclaimed throughout the camp that every man who had infidel prisoners should put them to death, and whoever neglected to do so should himself be executed and his property given to the informer. When this order became known to the ghazis of Islam, they drew their swords and put their prisoners to death.``



I can give you equally compelling descriptions about almost every one of the muslim rulers in India.

Here’s a sampler. About Akbar the Great:

Emperor Akbar ordered the massacre of about 30,000 (captured) Rajput Hindus on February 24, 1568 AD, after the battle for Chitod. Another reference indicates that this massacre of 30,000 Hindu peasants at Chitod is recorded by Abul Fazl, Akbar`s court historian himself. The Afghan historian Khondamir records that during one of the many repeated invasions on the city of Herat in western Afghanistan, 1,500,000 residents perished.

There’s many many more where those came from.

re: harimau # 293

And neither does the name Hindukush suggest a great deal of sufi love :)

Still, Tvarad was making a comparison with medieval Christianity. In addition, if one went back long enough, one would find that most societies were quite violent.

This is no defense of Islam. Simply an acknowledgement of the fact that at one point in time it did offer many advantages relative to most other religious doctrines of that time.


tvarad

Religious and ethnic issues are not easy to separate. One has to look at people`s basic motivations.

For instance, Ataturk has also been celebrated as a model Muslim. And his Turkey has been announced as the place where the next great renaissance/reconstruction of non Arab Islam was taking place (or was supposed to).

Re: # 301

...hahahahahahaha...what an idiot...i`m sure this guy is a muslim masquerading a hindoo, coz no hindoo can be that stupid...right harimau...;)

Re: #294 by Arstoo

[Please leave Ajeya alone, otherwise he may threaten us again never to visit Chowk again.]

As I have stated in a couple of earlier posts (much earlier, on a different forum), the idea of leaving Chowk was my wife`s. My wife read this story about this jewish family in New York who were murdered by the usual peaceful followers of Burpinder`s faith for posting their ``unacceptable`` thoughts on a website.

Although I have argued with my wife extensively that tracking posters down would be very difficult, she remains unconvinced.

She is somehow extremely paranoid about this. So in the interest of peace, I have been thinking of not posting for some time.

My earlier post was just a statement that since muslims (in general) will not change their views ever, then what`s the point posting on this forum. And yes, I am trying to stay off of this forum.

Although I came back for this particular article, I mentioned that I did not really want to, but nobody seemed to correct Romair, Hindvi, DM etc. when they kept talking about Kashmiri freedom struggle WHEN NO SUCH THING EXISTS. It was getting very hard to listen to interminable lies.

So I guess to stay off this forum, I`ll have to stop reading stuff on Chowk.

It`s become a habit, but I`m going to have to try.

Re: # 298

The background to this conflict is ethnic rather than religious. You are giving a religious twist to an ethnic conflict. Ataturk himself turned his back on Islam with a vengeance.

Try again.

Re: #292 by burpinder

An islamist AND a moron! How strange.

Ref tvarad #293

[So, would you give us an instance or two where mass slaughter on religious grounds was instigated in the Muslim world before partition? I am open to correction.]

The persecution and forced emigration of (Christian) Armenians by the (Muslim) Turkish Government in the early part of the 20th century. About 1.5 million Armenians perished and to this day the Armenians are asking for a symbolic apology which Turkey refuses to give.

You stand corrected now.