Get off her back…

Re: # 406 dostmittar

``Someone made a film in India titled `Around the World in Eight Dollars`. ``

raj kapoor made that movie.

Are pakis trying to tell us paki army brats have it just as tough as Indian army brats? I seriously doubt Indian army brats have access to the kind of facilities paki army brats have...i mean..come on..petting zoos?

reality...female of the canine species...and not a friend of the pakis...

Pakistanis Question Perks of Power

Many Say Military Confuses National Interest With Its Own

By John Lancaster
Washington Post Foreign Service
Friday, November 22, 2002; Page A01

KARACHI, Pakistan -- Public schools here are little more than warehouses, grim concrete shells lacking libraries, sports facilities, sometimes even teachers. Classes have as many as 60 students. But the children of Pakistani military officers almost certainly are not among them. For them, there is Army Public School O Levels.

Geared toward preparation for the competitive O Levelexams required by British universities, the handsome school is an educational showpiece whose computer, physics and biology labs would not seem out of place in an American suburb. Teachers make three times as much money as their public school counterparts.

Why else, they wonder, would officers` children at the seven-year-old army school enjoy basketball courts, fields for cricket and soccer, even a petting zoo stocked with ducks and deer.

``The army considers itself a privileged class,`` Khayyam Durrani, a retired officer who is principal of the school, said with a smile. ``The fact is that the actual rulers in Pakistani society are the army people, so they want their children to go to a privileged institution.``

harimou:

``That is the result of equal educational opportunity because of democracy.``

I agree if you are talking about higher education. There is no equality at school level.

BTW, stuka mentioned several times that he worked as a waiter to finance his education in the U.S. Most Indians who came abroad for sudies until recently did so on their own. In my time, the govt. allowed someone going abroad a foreign exchange of only eight dollars. Someone made a film in India titled `Around the World in Eight Dollars`.

fuzair:

I too learned my American english from Perry Mason. But I also learnt ``mispronounciation``. During those days, the rudimentaries of American culture had not reached India, so I would in my mind say ``Hee Paul`` when I read ``Hi Pal``.

further to #403 and on your other point - while far be it from me to let your countrymen shake out of their dreamworld, the fact is that it is not a case of brilliant-but-poor indian military brats getting to scholarships to top US universities and of stupid-but-rich pakistani military brats getting in due to their father`s ill-gotten wealth. But, as i said, i do not wish to take an indian away from the dreamworld he lives in.

Romair Mian,

I think I am being insulted! My English was this good (or however good it is; which is debatable) when my father was only a colonel! Not sure I quite understand how one`s English magically improves the higher in rank one`s father rises ;-). There are people who will do well in the Army and those who will not; it helps with Staff College, AFWC, etc, if you have a reasonably good educational background BUT look at all the ranker generals the Army has produced.

If you go to St. Mary`s, St. Pat`s, St. Paul`s, St. Anthony`s, Habib Public, Cathedral School, Ghora Gali, Burn Hall, CC Hasanabdal, Sadiq Public, etc., AND even if you don`t excel, you do learn to speak English reasonably well. Now this was probably more true in the 1950s-1980s than it is now but you can still speak reasonable English without being a milionaire in Pakistan! My (much older) cousin, Matric fail, undiagnosed severe learning disability from the Dark Ages, speaks English better than people with three times his level of formal education but who didn`t go to the ``right`` schools--also helps if your parents read English books. We used to love going to lending libraries to get books--don`t think there are any left in Pakistan now. That is where I first encountered my secret vice, Perry Mason mysteries, and why I am now trying to build up a collection of Perry Mason first editions. I`ve moved on from my old vice, Archie comics!

And I know that you will refuse to believe me, but no one in my family paid for my US education. The universities (and their donors) were kind enough to pay my way through. My selection criteria was quite simple: whichever school gave me the most money. There was a little money in the family but certainly not enough to pay for US universities.

While, compared to the average Pakistani, I was almost immeasurably privileged, it still is no fun as a teenager being in a class where you know that your family is probably among the 3/4 poorest ones in the class, and paying the school fees is a definite financial burden on your parents. So the fact that my parents made huge sacrifices for their children`s education is somehow ``proof,`` as you imply, that my father was corrupt? I wish sometimes that he had made a few crores in the Army, it would certainly have made his retirement much easier. In the Pakistan Army, you can get to a reasonably high rank and not be worth a million dollars.

Subroto #401 First hamidm comes out of the closet and admits he flunked PMA, and now you come out of the closet and admit you are an army brat too. Reminds me of Tikka Khan`s son at Government College Lahore who, on learning that my Dad was in the military too, told me that ``we army types must stick together`` and then told me of another ``army type`` fellow who was running for student union elections.

hamidm: how do you flunk weapon`s training? (not being a PMA alumni/dropout, I must admit ignorance on this matter, nor did anyone else ever mention weapon`s training to have been a challenge). Is it that you couldnt shoot straight? but you seem to shoot straight on chowk. Of maybe you couldnt re-assemble your ``raffle`` within 60 seconds? but you seem to re-assemble your thoughts and go with the flow within 60 seconds on chowk. so it cant be that either. The only thing challenging anyone mentioned about PMA was getting into those starched pants without causing a wrinkle (done by lowering yourself into them while someone holds the stiff pants for you), or by going on those long hikes (where one fellow i know got kicked out for getting a ``lift`` on the road from a passing motorist).

#397 Romair ``we have three individuals on this site who are sons of senior army officers, brigadier or above: you mian, fuzair and tahmad.........and stuka, whose father`s rank i am not sure of, yet........``

Well if the IAF brat Stuka makes the list then as an Indian Army brat I raise my hand. Though Harimau makes a relevant point here ``While children of officers of the Indian armed forces do go to the US, it is not because their dad has millions of dollars. They get into US universities on an assistantship, earn advanced degrees and may stay on``. The lifestyle is great in the army but its not really the place for big bucks - well there are places where people make money but the great majority retires with nothing but a pension. So is the Pak army really this great money making concern then?

Ref Romair #397

[.....we need furthur insight into this. i had guessed your father was a senior army officer. and it turned out to be correct. correct me if i am wrong, but apparently he was a brigadier or a general. you english is far too good to be the son of a colonel. and a son of a major doesn`t have enough money to end up in the usa.... ]

While children of officers of the Indian armed forces do go to the US, it is not because their dad has millions of dollars. They get into US universities on an assistantship, earn advanced degrees and may stay on. However, for every one of these army brats, you will find a thousand others from not just the big cities of India but from hundreds of amsll towns and even villages.

That is the result of equal educational opportunity because of democracy.

Re: #396 by hamidm2

[........ calm down!..........don`t go and get your kacha all in knots over this little disclosure ........ i don`t know if you have noticed, but the anti-terrorism guys in america use dummies dressed up in the checkered arab head dress and the targets used for rifle practice during ww-ii had the profile of a kraut in his helmet .......... it is all part of the game real men play ........... ]

hamidm,

I could make the argument that you don`t find arab headdresses within the continental USA, and civilian Krauts did not walk around in Army Helmets.

But I don`t want to belabour the point, because it`s obvious that as far as this issue is concerned (as well as some other important issues), your heart is in the right place.


Thanks for clarifying. :)

Porbably Hamidm he did not deserve to be in that cess pool of ignorance called Pakistan army and was forced by his father (with a lot of parental persuasion ofcourse) to be a part of an organization that is famed for creating monster megalomaniacs ..............and idiots like our Doc Romoron................

hamidm mian #: ``i failed weapon training``

chowk takes a new twist....this is far far more important than arundhati....

we need furthur insight into this. i had guessed your father was a senior army officer. and it turned out to be correct. correct me if i am wrong, but apparently he was a brigadier or a general. you english is far too good to be the son of a colonel. and a son of a major doesn`t have enough money to end up in the usa....

so far, we have three individuals on this site who are sons of senior army officers, brigadier or above: you mian, fuzair and tahmad.........and stuka, whose father`s rank i am not sure of, yet........

however, i could never have guessed you, yourself, were in the army! what were you doing in pma. i assume you were not there as a boy scout. how long were you there. did you graduate. if not, then did you flunk out. is this why you have such negative feelings towards the army?

there are hundreds of people who flunked out of the air force. but i have yet to meet anyone who flunked out of the army! even the air force flunkies used to go into the army, and become top students. hence i am surprised that a person of your capabilities didn`t make it..........

P.S. there is only one reason i know of, due to which people flunk out of pma (it is a place which is impossible to flunk from): could this be why you are against gay marriage also?

Re: # 395

ajeya,

........ calm down!..........don`t go and get your kacha all in knots over this little disclosure ........ i don`t know if you have noticed, but the anti-terrorism guys in america use dummies dressed up in the checkered arab head dress and the targets used for rifle practice during ww-ii had the profile of a kraut in his helmet .......... it is all part of the game real men play ...........

........ if it is any consolation, i failed weapon training because i just couldn`t get into charging straw dummies - sikh or hindoo or whatever......... actually, if i were to believe my father the sikhs were the nicer of the two and were misled by the conniving bania rascals ......... every now and then when we sould say something stupid like making peace with ya`all, he would thunder, `` tum baniyay ki asliyat nahin jantey - hum uus kay saath reh chukay hain !`` .......... he passed away last year, but nobody dares to take down the potrait of the quaid that has hung over the fireplace for fifty years even though it is yellow with age and moth-eaten ........ sigh :)

Re: #393 by Salim_Chauhan

Check this out.

Re: #393 by Salim_Chauhan

Yes, but what What would you say if it`s true?

If you google this site you`ll see that he has mentioned it before as well (in ``Running Naked``).

Ajeya #392,
Yaar, I think he was puffing his chest. This is another old army trick, also used by several animals. Puffing the chest makes one appear larger and is meant to intimidate the enemy into flight. :)

Don`t take him too seriously on this one. This is the first I heard of it. :)