Rape of another Kind

this is very serious topic and as a Muslim it is very shamefull 4 us. i read some non serious comments 4m some members and it hurts me. as a girl i think dat if it happens 2 the girlz of those people who do this sin so,....... wat will b there reaction? will they do the same as they do with this innocent girl. are they people are not muslim who do it????? wat kind of there mentality is?????? is there no girl in there home??????? but the point is this dat where is mukhtara mai is now? where r the sinners of this act?????/ actually people r far of the teachings of Holly Quran. they donot know the meanings of islaam. there is so much respect 4 girls in islaam but in pakistan which is a islaamic country there is unfortunatelly no respect of girls.

Re: # 40

zina

My previous post was in reply to zeena`s post at 40 which I reffered inadvertantly to herv post at 41. So I repeat it hearunder for her kind consideration.

``zeena

``Any huma being will feel Mukhataran Mai same way as she felt pain.Yes,if you are human being.If,not then we are absolutely NOT human beings``.

Mai is no longer a human being but the `Rape Queen` of the Pakland, the happiest woman in Mirwala. How charismatic Mastoi`s rape (alleged, of course) proved to be? They also deserve the title of `Rapist Kings` of Mirwala and can start a `Dhanda` of `consensual rape`. What a joke has all that become. The face of every individual or institution which tried to be seriously concerned with the matter got blackened. Only Mai comes out shining and happy, the envy of all the women like herself.

Re: # 41

zeena

``Any huma being will feel Mukhataran Mai same way as she felt pain.Yes,if you are human being.If,not then we are absolutely NOT human beings``.

Mai is no longer a human being but the `Rape Queen` of the Pakland, the happiest woman in Mirwala. How charismatic Mastoi`s rape (alleged, of course) proved to be? They also deserve the title of `Rapist Kings` of Mirwala and can start a `Dhanda` of `consensual rape`. What a joke has all that become. The face of every individual or institution which tried to be seriously concerned with the matter got blackened. Only Mai comes out shining and happy, the envy of all the women like herself.

Re: # 11

Very well said...................I agree with your acute observations.............and the laughable part of it is that these guys have not stopped the posturing of themselves as the ``light`` of the Umaah........they first fked up the Umaah by exporting terror......then the nuclear weapons............and now the dictators are trying to export themselves as world leaders trying to solve the problems of the world (as if they have a mighty good job at home!)...........and as chief negotiators between the west and the Islamic extremists!!!

How pathetic...............when guys like YLH repeat those stupid jingoistic statements from the dictator....................

An interview with President Musharaf,in which he mentioned,``comparison between the incidence of rape in western countries and Pakistan. It’s happening everywhere, he said, and then added: “You must understand the environment in Pakistan. This has become a money-making concern. A lot of people say if you want to go abroad and get a visa for Canada and citizenship and be a millionaire, get yourself raped.”

I have never ever heard such a cruel statement by any person in my whole life and I am sure will never hear it again.No,human can say such a thing.I am sure,even a rapist can not say such thing.This statement makes me sick to the extent that I feel sorry fo poor Pakistanis who has such a President(head of state).

On,side note,I think Musharaf has her own daughter and wife as well.What if samething happen to them?Will he say the samething for them as well?

Mr.President you are not only wrong,but,extremely cruel and pathetic.

When ever we hear a news about RAPE in Pakistan. On interrogation, all Paki Govt. officals state,``Oh,RAPE,well this is happening everywhere in the world.More common in Western countries.`` And,by making such a stupid and cruel statement they think,their duty is over and they could easily get away with it.

Well,first of RAPE is UNDER REPORTED in Pakistan.Then,even if it is reported,is not being supported by any Govt agencies.Rather RAPISTS have a lots of support from Govt,b/c lots of RAPISTS are either Ministers,senators,army officials or they have strong connections with them.So,they easily get away with RAPE.

Pakistan is so,called Islamic nation,how can RAPE even be committed?

I am sure Pakistan has more RAPES,COMPARED to USA,b/c of ignorance and poverty.

My answer to this dumb statement is,don`t make such statement which are not only cruel,but,they are justifying and favouring RAPE.By,saying this these officials become part of rapists team.
Well,this is solely your opinion.But,I think you are also human being.So,being a member of a civil society that you are.Will you please answer only one question.If you will say (yes) to this question,then you`re not human being and if you will say (No) to my question then you are human being.
PS:-Please don`t take my question as a personal attack.In no way I am attacking you personally.Thanks
Now,May I ask you Mr/Miss teshah?
Suppose,if your sister/mother/daughter has been dragged in similar rape situation,will you say the same senseless statement as has been stated by President general Musharaf(who is forgetting that he also is father / son and brother??

I have always admired Musharaf ,but, on this statement I have changed my opinion about this man.Thanks for not arguing with me on this highly sensitive issue.
Musharaf with such a heartless statement has nerves to deny it ,now....tsk,tsk,ts
Please,do not be sarcastic about poor miserable Mukhata Mai.if,you can not say a word of sympathy,then at least refrain from favouring rapists.
I am sorry to read Musharaf`s response.
Mr.President
You see rape in a totally different perspective. You know,why I am getting impression from your response that you are Not a sensitive person at all.
Person like you can easily say anything on any crime,like rape ,murder or any other serious crime. You will say,oh,so,what it did not happen to me or my family member,I di not feel the pain,why these people who got hurt are crying and why other people are consoling them. You are very sarcastic on a rape victim.This shows how you feel about other peoples sufferings.

Any huma being will feel Mukhataran Mai same way as she felt pain.Yes,if you are human being.If,not then we are absolutely NOT human beings.Thanks
Nothing more to say.

teshah#39
Please,do not be sarcastic about poor miserable Mukhata Mai.if,you can not say a word of sympathy,then at least refrain from favouring rapists.
I am sorry to read your response. You see rape in a totally different perspective. You know,why I am getting impression from your response that you are Not a sensitive person at all.
Person like you can easily say anything on any crime,like rape ,murder or any other serious crime. You will say,oh,so,what it did not happen to me or my family member,I di not feel the pain,why these people who got hurt are crying and why other people are consoling them. You are very sarcastic on a rape victim.This shows how you feel about other peoples sufferings.

Any huma being will feel Mukhataran Mai same way as she felt pain.Yes,if you are human being.If,not then we are absolutely NOT human beings.Thanks
Nothing more to say.

Re: # 20

zeena

``Now,May I ask you Mr/Miss teshah?
Suppose,if your sister/mother/daughter has been dragged in similar rape situation,will you say the same senseless statement as has been stated by President general Musharaf(who is forgetting that he also is father / son and brother??``

My answer, dear zeena, is, ``I won`t be their to make statements or go to courts, etc. I would have either killed or got killed by rapists insted of sitting smug and watching my sister or daughter being dragged by the rapists``.

Rape in my view, is neither a moral or a legal issue. It is basically a political-cum-cultural issue. I belong to a petty land lord paindu Punjabi Syed family. One of my uncles was a very devilish young man who would not spare any pretty young girl of the village. Though he did not rape any girl and would have only consensual sex with them but even then the low caste people of the village would react very severely. They would burn his crop and poison his cattle if they culd not do more. One Baloch family whose sister was abducted by him even tried to kill him but got one of them killed instead by his guard. The murder case that followed had almost ruined our family.

I wonder how charismatic this rape business has become in the Pakland. It is claimed by Paky media that it was rape of Muslim women in thousands during riots in East Punjab, which contributed as a sacrifice for the establishment of Pakistan. Now they are claiming the same type of sacrifice would turn Kashmir into Pakistan. As it is, thousands of Kashmiri women are stated to have been raped but again dismissed as just a sacrifice with no justice sought for. It is only for Mukhtaran Mai for whose rape justice to her liking is being sought for despite the fact that she has been encashing her alleged rape very handsomely and to top it all, has even been garlanded with the Fatimah Jinnah Gold-medal, as a reward for her rape. What a perfidy! Mai is being virtually worshipped as a ‘Rape Queen’ like Phoolan Devi, a ‘Bandit Queen’ of India. Musharraf was in fact talking about such women only who are tarnishing the name of the noble women and the image of our country and culture.

#37 by dahmed on September 19, 2005 2:57pm PT


I must hear it from the horse`s mouth if I am to believe it beyond all doubt.


You`ve heard it from a horse`s ass, haven`t you? now you want to hear it from the horses`s mouth? That`s going to be a bit tough...he`s got his foot in there playing football with his tongue...

#12 CoolAL, thanks for your reply. But I asked for the transcript of his talk, not some quote from a website or newspaper. I found enough of those. Although there is a high probability that he did make the controversial remark, I must hear it from the horse`s mouth if I am to believe it beyond all doubt.

#35, Kulharee Sahib,
No! I am not a lawyer, Shukr Hamdolillah! :)
What I am really upset over is the complicity of ``good`` people in the rape and abuse of MukhtaraN Mai. This is NOT a case of a perverted father-in-law, a serial rapist, or a gang of outlaws. This is a panchayat, a village authority, sanctioning a punishment of an innocent women, a punishment that clearly violates the laws of Multan, of Punjab, or Pakistan, or Islam, and of humanity. Then, what evidence turned up that cause the ``wise men`` of the Lahore Court to overturn the lower court`s decision? That is the source of my problem. The Lahore Court.
Bad people do bad things. It is up to the ``good`` people to punish the bad people so that some other ``bad`` people won`t think they can get away with more ``bad`` deeds.

Mushy and Temporal are just a lot of noise created by stupid people for stupid reasons of self-flagellation.

Re: # 34

Dear Chauhan Sahib, Unlike you, I am not a lawyer but I know that there’s nothing extra-judicial about upper courts overturning the lower courts’ decisions. It happens all the time.

Some people are getting overtly emotional about it, it is not about Courts’ and Police and judicial proceedings. It is about a poor helpless Woman who was raped in the most horrific manner by a bunch of thugs, and the worst part is that instead of working towards improving the situation of women in Pakistan, some people are worried about what the world will think of us. That in literature is called head in the ass syndrome.

I agree with you that a country that is ruled by dictators for most its life has a much bigger issue on hands (like how to have a civilian rule) than worrying about a poor woman getting raped. That happens way to often in rural Pakistan for us to worry about.

#32, Kulharee {``The matter of MukhtaraN Mai is a violation of her human and civil rights, and if someone is bringing her troubles (either within Pakistan or outwith) is doing every Pakistani a big favor. ``}

If Pakistan, its government, and its people cannot provide justice for the victim, punishment for the rapists, and assurance to those who are vulnerable, then let`s pack it up irght now - we have a much bigger problem than Mushy and his auto-piloted mouth. If something as obvious and blatant as Panchayat-sanctioned public rape of a totally innocent female is not a simple, open and shut case, then we let`s fold the flag, turn out the lights in Islamabad, and open the gates at Wagah.

Mushy does not directly control the Panchayat in Multan and the judges in Lahore. There is something terribly wrong with the Lahore Court overturning the decision of the lower court. Has anybody investigated that travesty? Before we go half-cocked, seeking help from UNESCO, The Hague, and the United Auto Workers, let`s find out what broke down in Pakistan? This is not a case of complicated heart treatment that we need medical assistance from India. If we don`t have adequate judicial infrastructure in Pakistan, it is time to let the dogs out.

It pains me to see the circus act of fools showing the world that Pakistani women can`t be trusted among normal, average Pakistani men in their own home towns. I am not talking about single, serial rapists on the prowl. I am talking about Panchayats and Courts.

I said this elsewhere, but it probably also applies to this board.

Re: # 31

Dear Chauhan Sahib, What right in the world does Mushi have to talk about civil matters of Pakistan? Who gave him that right?

The matter of MukhtaraN Mai is a violation of her human and civil rights, and if someone is bringing her troubles (either within Pakistan or outwith) is doing every Pakistani a big favor. The rest of the world should know what is going on in Pakistan in terms of gender inequality and abuse of women. This exposure is a good thing. No sane person will judge Pakistan (or Pakistanis) for the horrendous acts committed by a few thugs, if anything many helping hands will be extended (and are being extended). And even if there is a bit of shame or stigma attached to being viewed as such, who the hell cares? Would you rather not have a situation where women can be helped (even on cost of the ‘image’ issue??).

I totally don’t understand your notion of activists wanting to get their photos taken with MukhtaraN Mai…. What’s such a big deal about that? Was she not raped in a most horrific way? I think the focus should be on how to prevent such things from happening in the future (and not worrying about peripheral and minor issues as to who is getting photographed with her), and there’s nothing wrong in wanting to be on the side of the victim.

Peace.

#30, Dear Axeman,
Now please be sincere. Are you and others really concerned about the prevalent cases of rape in Pakistan or do you see this as another oppotunity to beat your muzzled drums?

The circus that resulted from Mukhtar Mai`s plight was tantamount to the poor woman reliving her rape over and over again. Everyone in the who`s who of Pakistani list of goody goody two shoes wanted to be seen with her, ride with her, advise her, and be photographed with her.

I want to concentrate on the perpetrators of the rape, the panchayat ``democrats`` who sanctioned the punishment, and the local police who allowed it to take place. Finally, I want to hang the upholders of justice, the ones with the holy robes in the Court of Lahore, who overturned a lower court`s guilty verdict on these rapists. Please don`t pollute the limelight of this sacred undertaking with your own obvious agenda.

It`s not Mushy`s ugly face that needs surgery, it`s the tools of crime used by those animals in Multan and Sui.

Thanks,

As a Pakistani, I don’t need his apology. Not seeing his stupid face ever again will suffice.

#28, Friend,
I am not defending his stupidity, which BTW is the least of his vices. :)
Obviously, he is neither a demigod nor a barometer of public opinion in Pakistan.
It is our unique misfortune that we have no alternative to a two-bit military dictator. That is the sorry state of Pakistani political development.

{``I won`t be surprised if someone uses his lines as an argument in a court case.``}

What court? Remember the Lahore court that set the perpetrators free, reversing a lower court decision? :)

Only in Pakistan can it happen that the perpetrators and organizers of sanctioned rape are set free, while a stupid man, innocent of any rape himself, is castrated for making stupid, insensitive, and uneducated remarks.

#27 Dear sir
What Mushy did was condoning ``rape``. If leader of a nation can take this position (of women getting raped to get VISA), it is not just stupidity of an individual, it shows his lack of understanding of the issues facing his nation. His nation obviously treats him like a demigod and learns from him. I won`t be surprised if someone uses his lines as an argument in a court case.

#26, I agree with your statement that example must be set from the top. If he had committed rape or had condoned rape, I would say that he should have resigned and if convicted of rape, should get the regular punishment. However, what he did was to utter stupidity, something Paki leaders are quite adept at.

Removal of Mushy will only increase the inicdents of rape (and other popular crimes). You think the Mullahs or the ``progressive liberal democrats`` give a hoot ab0ut women`s rights?

Salim #25
Example must be set from the top

---

Ferocity and rage to Mushy`s behavior is really a good thing to happen. If this rage can result in something concrete (e.g. his sacking) than it would act as a deterrant to anyone trying to condone (or participate) in acts of rape, or acts of supporting rape.

Otherwise people will pay just lip service to all sermons and keep raping women.

It is amazing to notice the ferocity, determination, and rage of the reaction to Mushy`s obvious stupidity. Too bad, this comical and self-sanctimonious outrage is always missing when support is needed against the rapists and the system that shields them.

We all know that the notorious landlords and their system of abusive power, ``ownership`` over their peasants, including the peasants` wives and children, and camaraderie with the police and military are the reason for this lawlessness. For some reason, these abuses tend to be more prevalent in interior Sindh, in rural Punjab, and to some extent in NWFP and Baluchistan, where the rapes never see the light of day.

What is needed desperately is complete land reform and an end to this mentality of landowners almost having the ``right of the first night`` as in the Lords of medieval Europe. India`s curse is casteism and Pakistan`s curse is landlordism. Too bad, many of the so-called Pakistani ``activists`` belong to this land-owning class and ther real problem is never highlighted.

Stop picking on Mushy. He is just stupid, but he is not the real problem.
Dhoti se bas na chala to gadhey ke kaan moRoR liye. :)

#22 by ahmedmadani on September 18, 2005 10:17pm PT


Port G will be taking oil from central asia


Maybe you can use ``Port G`` to import maps..and some books on where the central asian oil actually is...

People are saying, asking and wondering ...

... Is this the way (by getting raped) Musharraf`s family members have got citizenships in the North America. Musharraf`s comments must be representing his family experiences.
There is a lesson for the people trying to defend these filthy creatures that our generals are more disgusting than a common man`s imagination. It is only ignorance, lack of information or deep personal interests that make one parrot praise songs for the military.
What a disgusting military high command we have, it is truly incredible.

The president has not said what all are saying. It was said by some other people and was picked by reporters to make news. As he said now all women are allowed to go to conference in west he was categorical. The prime minister made mistake and president had to cover carelessness ( taking away passport) from mai, now she can go.. He explained he did not say that, he is moderate and enlightened person and is liberal and democratic oriented thinker. President may not be saint and he is not foolish. BBC, Washington post etc english papers always magnify at such things. These are internal matters and no need for outsiders to comment. These comments inflame police and people in uniform. I think he is destined to play part in big things in world. He may play part to solve middle east conflit and can act as midman between usa ( Israel) and PLO. Today he addressed most influencial and intelluctual people of NEwYork City- brainy people- jews. And all said its his profound humanity which is driving him to solve these problems of christaina, jews and muslims and brother religion fatricide. I think time for all pakistanis to stand behind when he entered lions den and criticised all lions in newyork. I think he will give up uniform at 7 years and we will have him as a president candidate and next 4 to 5 years. So he will be atleast till 2010 and it appears Afghan trouble is not going to go so USA will back him fully. After 2011 to 2016 is too long time to predict but I predict if Afghan trouble is not settled then usa will not allow BB or ExPM or MQM Chief to return from exile. Also all exile leaders are not young after 8 years they will be old and will not be coming back.
Time to forgive and forget. Little people do not undertand the wicked west reporters and their habit of magnifying muslim leadership wrong uttrances. I agree with YLH no criticism from India as same things happen there only partial west reporters do not report bad news of India. Pakistan is under microscope. As soon Our country will be hub of oil transportation, pipe lines taking all exportable muslim oil of middleeast and transferring to China. ( India will has big pipeline but no has till kashmir problem is solved.) Port G will be taking oil from central asia and processing it and loading value added products like high speed diesel and fertilizers and huge ships will be coming and going like Dubai. There is going to be lots of water from sea ( factory is being set to make fresh water).
Any way at this time Pakistan need smart and flexible and good at words who can tackle foreign reporters and general is one of them.
All this troubles created by foreign people will be forgotten and General will set stage for higher economic growth and foreign investments. Too much talking about wrong thing in open is not good , selfcriticism is good did discretely. As if after criticism and remarks nothing changes what use of spoiling name of country.
good luck everybody.

Re: # 20

``I have always admired Musharaf ``

Really, what is there to admire about Mr. Musharraf, a criminal who broke the country law purely to usurp power, because he could.

I am surprized at the people Pakistani`s admire and tolerate, Mr. Jinnah a chalu politican
who exploited religion to achieved his sinister goals, Mr. Musharraf a criminal who breaks
the law.

#19 teshah
Well,this is solely your opinion.But,I think you are also human being.So,being a member of a civil society that you are.Will you please answer only one question.If you will say (yes) to this question,then you`re not human being and if you will say (No) to my question then you are human being.
PS:-Please don`t take my question as a personal attack.In no way I am attacking you personally.Thanks
Now,May I ask you Mr/Miss teshah?
Suppose,if your sister/mother/daughter has been dragged in similar rape situation,will you say the same senseless statement as has been stated by President general Musharaf(who is forgetting that he also is father / son and brother??

I have always admired Musharaf ,but, on this statement I have changed my opinion about this man.Thanks for not arguing with me on this highly sensitive issue.
Musharaf with such a heartless statement has nerves to deny it ,now....tsk,tsk,tsk

Naeem Sadiq

Hats off for Musharraf! He is really great. I am a critic of his wardi politics but I am all praise for his truthfulness. Bulleh Shah had said `` Sach aakhaan te bhaamarh machda``. So has happened with the statement of Musharraf about the women who have made rape a profitable business in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. If I have anything against him in this respect is that he, his show-piece PM and Ms Nilofar are responsible in no less a measure to glorify the rape of Mukhtaran Mai so as to make her a role-model for paky women like Phoolan Devi in India.

What seems quite intriguing is the silence of the paky Ullema about this hotly debated issue whereas the Idian Ullema of Deo Band have issued a vital `Fatwa` on the rape.

lies lies lies yeeeaah. . . .

and of course the next lie will be ``i don`t lie``, or what was it that nixon said? yeah. that. *rolls eyes*

BUSTED..AGAIN....

Musharraf Denies Rape Comments
Recording Shows Post Article Correctly Quoted Pakistani President

``Let me say with total sincerity that I never said that, and it has been misquoted,`` Musharraf told the women`s group. ``These are not my words, and I would go to the extent of saying I am not so silly and stupid to make comments of this sort.``

In an interview Saturday with CNN, Musharraf said that the remarks were made by someone else in his presence and not by him.

The interview was conducted by three Washington Post reporters and was tape-recorded. A review of the recording yesterday confirmed that Musharraf -- who was surrounded by aides who took notes and also recorded the interview -- was accurately quoted.

I am usually a staunch supporter of Musharraf, because inspite of all his bluntness and bluster, he means well and he has at least taken Pakistan out of a series of crises. But this time he really has gone too far with this statement, and rather than denying it he should have accepted it and attributed it to frustration and anger, or whatever, but he should have handled it differently.

Speaking of sweeping, untenable statements, here`s one from the writer of the article:

``I do not know of a single woman who chose to be raped, so that she could migrate to Canada. But I do know of many thousand men and women who chose to migrate to Canada because they did not want to be raped and end up in a hopeless and helpless situation in Pakistan.``

This is the opening paragraph! Dear sir, most people emigrate to foreign lands to escape a vicious circle of poverty and lack of opportunities. But I think anyone would be hard-pressed to find a large number of people who escape Pakistan specifically to avoid being raped! On the other hand, if you are using the word `rape` as a metaphor for a larger phenomenon of social and economic injustice, then you are right. But, considering the subject of the article, it is a bad choice of metaphor.

@Zeena,
Thank you, your support and compassion is a welcome relief. I wish there were more foreigners like you.

Regards,
Irfan.

This article was written by Naeem Sadiq, a frequent Chowk contributor. It was erroneously published under a different name. We apologize for the oversight. Eds.

wo wo wo! Mr President..................now i would like to ask......if it happens vthin your family......and we suppose to use the words as you used....then what ?

An interview with President Musharaf,in which he mentioned,``comparison between the incidence of rape in western countries and Pakistan. It’s happening everywhere, he said, and then added: “You must understand the environment in Pakistan. This has become a money-making concern. A lot of people say if you want to go abroad and get a visa for Canada and citizenship and be a millionaire, get yourself raped.”

I have never ever heard such a cruel statement by any person in my whole life and I am sure will never hear it again.No,human can say such a thing.I am sure,even a rapist can not say such thing.This statement makes me sick to the extent that I feel sorry fo poor Pakistanis who has such a President(head of state).

On,side note,I think Musharaf has her own daughter and wife as well.What if samething happen to them?Will he say the samething for them as well?

Mr.President you are not only wrong,but,extremely cruel and pathetic.

When ever we hear a news about RAPE in Pakistan. On interrogation, all Paki Govt. officals state,``Oh,RAPE,well this is happening everywhere in the world.More common in Western countries.`` And,by making such a stupid and cruel statement they think,their duty is over and they could easily get away with it.

Well,first of RAPE is UNDER REPORTED in Pakistan.Then,even if it is reported,is not being supported by any Govt agencies.Rather RAPISTS have a lots of support from Govt,b/c lots of RAPISTS are either Ministers,senators,army officials or they have strong connections with them.So,they easily get away with RAPE.

Pakistan is so,called Islamic nation,how can RAPE even be committed?

I am sure Pakistan has more RAPES,COMPARED to USA,b/c of ignorance and poverty.

My answer to this dumb statement is,don`t make such statement which are not only cruel,but,they are justifying and favouring RAPE.By,saying this these officials become part of rapists team.

# 8

OK, since you asked...

---

Musharraf: No Challenge From Bush On Reversal

...

Musharraf also became animated when he spoke about the case of Mukhtar Mai, a 33-year-old illiterate woman who spoke publicly about having been gang-raped on the orders of village council in 2002. Mai, bucking taboos, won public sympathy and government support after she demanded that the men be charged and convicted. But earlier this year Musharraf earned the ire of the Bush administration when he blocked her from traveling to the United States to publicize the case.

Musharraf said that Mai was free to travel now -- though she has never left Pakistan -- and that he had no regrets about how he handled the incident. He said Mai had come under the sway of organizations determined to harm Pakistan`s image and he did not think Pakistan ``should be singled out when the curse is everywhere in the world.`` He noted he had seen reports or figures about rape in the United States, Canada, France and Britain showing that ``it is happening everywhere.``

``You must understand the environment in Pakistan,`` Musharraf added. ``This has become a moneymaking concern. A lot of people say if you want to go abroad and get a visa for Canada or citizenship and be a millionaire, get yourself raped.``

...

---

Dear Brigadier Ali,

President Musharraf ‘s statement is totally unbecoming of a President of a nation that is in search for a softer image. President Musharraf wants an enlightened and moderated Pakistan. How is it possible, when he himself and most of his cabinet members, come across as haughty, pompous, arrogant and loud mouthed? The way that they come across on T.V. shows that they are mightier than the viewers, smarter than most of us, and we must bow before them. They have no concept on how to communicate on T.V.

I have always wondered how is it possible for some Pakistanis, who are generally loud mouthed, to suddenly change and be mild mannered? These Pakistanis have values that are very embarrassing in today’s world. How would these people be able to show dignity and respect for other’s opinion? Can culture be ingrained in a society overnight just because its President wants it? I don`t think so.

An enlightened society is a society of civic mindedness, where people know their rights and their responsibilities. Judging at the behavior of some Pakistanis, it seems that Pakistan would have to start a massive educational drive to create a society of civic-minded Pakistanis. And maybe this program should start with this President and his cabinet.

Respectfully submitted,

B

it is obvious that the comment was a stupid one and an educated or westernized person such as PM would normally be aware not to make such remarks.

but the reason why it was made may be due to the stress the general was facing. When folks are stressed out, they are more likely to fumble and reveal something of their true selves. If I am not wrong, very little headway was gained on the foreign policy front (with India and the USA) and the UN speech also shows a strange disconnect. all this suggests a lot of stress/frustration and also is reflected in the encounter with the woman protestor in one of the talks.

another possibility is that .. and this is pure speculation ... is that the general himself has some skeleton in his personal closet.. perhaps somewhere in his career .. making such statements more likely ..

Re: # 4
...it is interesting to note how all the retired brigadiers and generals start writing about the abuse and oppression of army on pakistani populace after they have retired...

Can anyone tell me how I can get the whole transcript of the president`s talk with the Washington Post where he made that comment?
Thanks.

smooth..real smooth...this dude thinks he`s a fighter because he can shout down some paki chick?

Opponents are enemies of country: Musharraf

Dawn Report

NEW YORK, Sept 17: Pandemonium broke out at a meeting organized to promote Pakistan’s soft image when after a confrontation with human rights activists an irate President Pervez Musharraf declared that those who opposed his policies were the enemies of Pakistan.

“You are against me and Pakistan,” said the president when a human rights activist referred to his alleged comments in a Washington Post interview which quoted him (Gen Musharraf) as saying that women exploited rape to get visas.

Provoked by a single question, the president allowed an event held to promote his government’s pro-women policies to degenerate into a bout between himself and part of the invited audience.

“I am a fighter, I will fight you. I do not give up and if you can shout, I can shout louder,” said Gen Musharraf.

“I wish you had quoted Muslim scholars as opposed to British scholars,” said the president to the woman who had quoted some American scholars to make her point.

Responding to the woman’s charge that he had retracted his interview to the Washington Post in which he was quoted as saying that some women used rape to get visa, Gen Musharraf said: “Lady, you are used to people who tell lies. I am not one of them.”

As the human rights and women groups protested outside the Roosevelt Hotel against the treatment of rape victims in Pakistan Gen Musharraf said that such protests should be held in and not outside Pakistan.

When a woman raised her voice to ask a question, the president said: “Are you a Benazir supporter? A lady was prime minister of Pakistan twice, ask her what she has done for Pakistan.”

#5 by nabendu on September 18, 2005 6:38am PT

He actually prefixed it with ``People say..`` and now he`s using that as a cop-out...It would have been plausible if he had added his own thoughts and how he disagreed.

Now why would you repeat something ``people say`` if you weren`t endorsing it in some way...

would el-presidente, for example, say ``people say all muslims are are terrorists`` and leave it at that? don`t you think he`d have added a ``but that`s not the truth`` followed by what he really thinks?

Today morning I saw a news flash on Z-TV saying that President Musharraf has denied having made the statement which has been quoted.

Is this true ?

I happened to talk to a Pakistani colleague of mine who said that a statement of this kind could never have been made by the Leader of a country. He claimed the President must have been mis-quoted.

He went on to say that if the President had really made that remark, and had not been mis-quoted, surely it was the stupidest thing for any leader to have said.

So, what is the truth - was he mis-quoted, or was he stupid ?

Brigadier:

If you were the president of a country with dictatorial powers, what would you do? Can you chalk out few plans? How would you go about setting priorities between various problems of Pakistan: Defending the country, acquire Nukes, economic development, better schools, protecting dignity and image of the country, becoming leader in the Ummah, eradicating Heroin addiction in Pakistan, defending against Hindustan, Zionism, America, the West etc.
Well write few of yout thoughts here please!

A woman getting raped in Pakistan! How shocking!

Army personnel SAY things that are false, offensive, and despicable? How new!

Army personnel DO things that are false, offensive, and despicable? Never happens!

The “president” is the face of the army? You don’t say!

All that the “president” has to do is to say sorry – then all would become honky-dory – like it used to be – like it has always been!

Therefore, go ahead Mr. “President”, say it – SOWWYY!

See, how the REAL problem can get fixed, like sheer magic!

He did not say it!

You see, Brig. Al, the “president” loves the country – he just plainly and plainly loves it just too much!

And love means NEVER having to say “sorry”!

These remarks by Gen are extremely arrogant and insulting to all the Pakistani people.
What else can you expect from these Generals, they have raped the constitution of the country, they have raped the whole country and now they are saying they are the Chowkidar of this country. My foot. People of Pakistan should send these guys to hell.

Ali

Quite right. If he does not have the courage to suspend the Zia`s Hadood Ordinance & Blasphemy Laws, the least he can do is to his keep shut.

He has said that the `others say this`. The `Others` around him are the police wallas, security and SHOs. Their mentality is indeed such.

Police Wallas are saying that Sonia is of a bad character. Implying that Rape of a bad character woman is justified. (reminds me of the movie `Zorba-the Greek)

nhk