Rape and Exploitation - Pakistan’s Dilemma

I say, give Mushaaraf a break!!.It`s very hard to do what he`s doing, balancing the various competing interests inside and outside the country.He need this `Mai` incident like a hole in his head.

Re: # 148

``In my opinion, I wish we could forget about the four witneses rule. Especially in the case of people running in to see these little girls being raped, I think the offenders should be castrated and then shot upon the spot. Perhaps this is the one area where vigilanteism would actually have an effect.``

I`m on board! Tell me where to meet!

Manto, Friend, Mohar:

All of you have have point, and more accurate in your analysis. A professional and sincere soldier will follow the code of conduct and code of ethics. I take my comment on Musharaff back, I apologize for them.

Thank you for pointing and correcting me.

Anil Kapuria

teshah #139,

Thanks for your support and understanding of my viewpoiint. At the risk of getting banned by Mr. Temporal and his henchmen, let me try to shed some logic into this issue:

THE CASE OF THE MUKHTAR MAI RAPE IS NOT YOUR COMMON CRIMINAL RAPE CASE INVOLVING SERIAL RAPISTS OR MASS RIOT-RELATED RAPES INVOLVING GANGS OR VIOLENT MOBS. THIS RAPE WAS SANCTIONED BY A QUASI-LEGAL AUTHORITY, THE GRASSROOTS DEMOCRACY, KNOWN AS PANCHAYAT. THE SO-CALLED ``HONORABLE`` MEN PUNISHED AN INNOCENT WOMAN AND OTHER ``VOLUNTEERS`` CARRIED OUT THE VERDICT OF THIS AUTHORITY. THE POLICE, THE ADMINISTRATORS, AND EVEN THE LAHORE COURT ARE IMPLICATED IN THIS TRAVESTY OF JUSTICE. THERE IS A MUCH BIGGER PROBLEM HERE THAN MUSHARRAF, MUKHTARAN MAI, VISAS, AND THE WASHINGTON POST. THE PROBLEM IS WITH THE THINKING OF VILLAGE LEADERS AND LOCAL POLICE, NOT TO MENTION THE LAHORE COURT.

Rape is wrong. It`s criminal. It needs to be stamped out. There is never ANY excuse for rape. Stupid people often say stupid things and Mr. Temporal is no exception. Mushy was not misquoted, he actally said something that was insensitive, stupid, and may be fatally harmful to his position as ``president.`` But then, Bush said one or two insensitive things when he went to New Orleans about him having ``too good a time in NO while a young man.`` How about the notorious ``It`s a Crusade`` comment right after 9/11. We all remember Bill Clinton`s ``I did not have ...`` comment. Maybe the embarrassment of this goof will be sufficient impetus for Mushy to get to the bottom of the Lahore Court, Multan police, and Panchayyat mystery. Dictatorship does have its advantages - maybe we won`t have to wait for years for some simple answers and quick justice.

It`s ironic that a country that has been a condom for most of it`s existence is now in the news for a rape...

Re: # 148

Hey Bina. I guess I had heard of rapes only in rural areas of Pakistan. The facts you relay are really frightening. This seems quite similar to what is happening in Delhi these days. Brazen acts of harassment and rapes. Very scary. I wonder what can be done....real, practical solutions. They are definitely needed.

Anil #144
``I also think that Musharaff is a sincere and professional soldier. He is neither a politician, nor a statesman``

Anil

Following is an extract from my companies corporate policy about sexual harrassment

Supervisors and other members of management who are aware of violations by others and fail to report such violations also will be subject to disciplinary action, up to and including suspension and termination of employment....

Employees will not suffer adverse consequences as a result of reporting any act of harassment, including sexual harassment. ``

Mushy has assumed supreme executive powers in his country. He calls himself ``CEO``. Not only that, his powers include judicial powers too. His comments clearly indicate who will get benefit of doubt if rapists are convicted by every court and finally come to him for appeal.

His comments are equivalent to a supreme court justice giving opinion on a matter being discussed by a lower court.

His comments are clearly in conflict of what his role demands.

A sincere and professional soldier knows his boundaries. Mushy`s repeated behavior shows that he is neither a professional soldier, nor a good CEO.

bina 148:

fine

i made some suggestions in two posts one of them #35...in one of them a long term outlook on women`s `empowerment` to change the ground realities for them…

what gets white washed in all these mushy-bashing is simply this: it is futile to discuss laws when the problem lies in its implementation or lack of...it is those conditions that have to be reversed to arrest the abuse of justice and to provide a level playing field to all the citizens....

lve

t

Re: # 144 anil
//....I also think that Musharaff is a sincere and professional soldier....//

Really? Do ``sincere and professional`` soldiers trample the constitution they have promised to protect and take over the country willy-nilly?

It`s one thing for Pakis to sing paens to this Mushy fool - but time and again I am surprised with stupidity of people from this side of the border....Actually, this is very symptomatic of why India has not been able to handle these paki pests for so long ... forever Indians are making false reading of paki establishment and the generals .... what they are and what they stand for...

Rape does not fall under the category of Hadud laws, therefore, four witnesses are not required. The standard of witnesses (i.e. number) and forensic evidence is arbitrarily chosen but cannot be used to impose Hadd punishment for zina. Under Islamic jusripudence society is allowed to arbitrarily chose the punishment for rape, which in principle should be less sever than the Hadd - which is 100 stripes for unmarried perpetrator and stonning to death for married perpetrtor. The hadd punishment can only be imposed in case of rape when two conditions are met:

1. Four adult male witneseses happen to witness the actual act of penetration.

2. The perpetrator volunatrily confesses of rape.

The loophole in Pakistani law is that:

Suppose a woman claims that a certain man has raped her. Like any other culture in the world, unfortunately because of the nature of the crime, the bulk of the burden of proof lies with the woman. But if that woman fails to prove her case and polices also fails to prove the case with circumstantial or forensic evidence, then Pakistani judges on one hand let the perpetrator go free - nothing wrong with that - but the travesty is that they charge woman with the crime of fornication. Their rationale is that that woman by accusing another man of raping her has admitted to fornication at least. This is a travesty of justice and Islamic law explicitly forbids this practice of retaliation against woman in this form. A women cannot be charged like this. But thanks to fauji dictators they have turned jsudges into fukking rodents and cockroaches on one hand and on the other hand they don`t let any independent legislation to take palce in legislative so that these anomolies/travesties of justice can be straightened out in the law because legislative process threatens their petty fiefdoms.

Re: # 156
what about you ``intelligent design`` loving scout? apart from these four lines......

the only person who contributed anything worthwhile to this whole forum is bina herself and the little post at the end by mantolives.


all the rest of you are just playing the typical pakistani routine..... start condemning one person while the problem lies in the whole damn country

Romair,
``In any case, rapes happen everywhere. Far more in the USA than in Pakistan. ``

Don`t compare the numbers, the numbers are underreported in our countries, the real numbers are much higher and it may surprise you.

Re: # 148 and Romair (many) and others

Rape is essentially a power tool - one of enforcing your power on another and frightening the pshyte of others. This power could be political, monetary, shear physical brute force (dadagiri/gangsterism etc). Polical+monetary power=feudalism (and its variations).

the only solution is to educate the population about their rights - that is the only solution. Education about rights is different from making them literate. The fear of the powerful about literacy is true, but in reality they fear what this literacy will do in terms of ensuring that the powerless realise the rights they have in society.

you need to find a way in short-ckting this literacy => knowledge of rights and go str to rights issue. Heck we have many literate folk here on chowk, but I wonder how many you could classify as educated.

Rights is the key. The rest follows from it. Hide the rights anf you have a whole lot of psuedo-powerless people cowering before you. Knowledge of ones rights gives a sense of purpose and dignity, and boosts your self-worth many fold.

Re: # 144

Anil...

With all due respect... every word of Musharraf`s is discussed, deliberated and criticized upon by the 10 or so Private channels- and the opposition as usual has been very very vocal... so I am afraid your theory that he did this for Pakistani consumption is not true...

He just made a fool out of him internationally- thats all... he didn`t think before making the statement or before denying it...

#149 by Romair

[This is all well and good. But I must say, I am still suprised that no one is willing to debate the key aspect of rape, against women in Pakistan. What are the victims of honor rapes, themselves saying. They all seem to be pointing to one thing - feudalism and feudal culture.]

And pray tell us who allowed feudalism and feudal culture to thrive? Is it not your Army, which has ruled Pakistan for most of its wretched existence?