Rape and Exploitation - Pakistan’s Dilemma
Bina Shah September 18, 2005
#1 Posted by nazarhayatkhan on September 19, 2005 1:39:55 am
Bina
You are so Right. Musharraf has no idea of the intricacies of thoughts that you have expressed here.
He is busy hiring consultants for improving the country`s image - and then goes on to make this statement.
India-Pakistan peace process has also often been a victim of his such pearls of wisdom.
But this one was an outright lump of shame that he has heaped on the country.
nhk
You are so Right. Musharraf has no idea of the intricacies of thoughts that you have expressed here.
He is busy hiring consultants for improving the country`s image - and then goes on to make this statement.
India-Pakistan peace process has also often been a victim of his such pearls of wisdom.
But this one was an outright lump of shame that he has heaped on the country.
nhk
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#2 Posted by imtiaz84 on September 19, 2005 4:17:30 am
Dear Bina,
I do agree with you and Nazar.The issue like this demand great delicacy when discussed in the public.I am totally surprised by remarks of President.In my view, he should take all possible action showing the victims that honor of the women is dearest to every Pakistani.All possible laws should be inforced to stop these kinds of incedents to be repeated in future .This is only possible if the crimnals are punished in a examplary fashion.
Rgds
Imtiaz
I do agree with you and Nazar.The issue like this demand great delicacy when discussed in the public.I am totally surprised by remarks of President.In my view, he should take all possible action showing the victims that honor of the women is dearest to every Pakistani.All possible laws should be inforced to stop these kinds of incedents to be repeated in future .This is only possible if the crimnals are punished in a examplary fashion.
Rgds
Imtiaz
#3 Posted by harish_hyd on September 19, 2005 4:48:55 am
There is no doubt that Musharraf thinks rape is wrong.
Dear Bina,
I`m surprised you have chosen to believe that Mushy thinks rape is a crime. Just what makes you think so? Wasn`t this the man who proclaimed Capt. Hammad to be innocent in the Shazia Khalid rape case without even calling for an inquiry? Of what use is it if he thinks rape is a crime, when he, the most powerful man in Pakistan couldn`t (or better still, didn`t) so much as order a fair trial to determine whether the accused captain was indeed guilty of the crime. After all, isn`t silence another form of acquiesence? And in this case, it wasn`t even silence. Mushy went the whole hog to defend Hammad.
Regards,
Harish
Dear Bina,
I`m surprised you have chosen to believe that Mushy thinks rape is a crime. Just what makes you think so? Wasn`t this the man who proclaimed Capt. Hammad to be innocent in the Shazia Khalid rape case without even calling for an inquiry? Of what use is it if he thinks rape is a crime, when he, the most powerful man in Pakistan couldn`t (or better still, didn`t) so much as order a fair trial to determine whether the accused captain was indeed guilty of the crime. After all, isn`t silence another form of acquiesence? And in this case, it wasn`t even silence. Mushy went the whole hog to defend Hammad.
Regards,
Harish
#4 Posted by Catchy on September 19, 2005 5:44:20 am
What an image building of Pakistan and Pakistanis! Now we are not only corrupt, terrorists and rapists; we are proven liars also. Only a liar of Musharraf`s stature can deny his own recorded statement.
washingtonpost.com
Musharraf Denies Rape Comments
Recording Shows Post Article Correctly Quoted Pakistani President
By Glenn Kessler
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, September 19, 2005; A12
Gen. Pervez Musharraf, the president of Pakistan, has denied telling The Washington Post in an interview last week that claiming rape has become a ``moneymaking concern`` in Pakistan and that many Pakistanis felt it was an easy way to make money and get a Canadian visa.
The comments have outraged women`s groups and sparked protests across Pakistan, marring a high-profile trip that Musharraf has made to the United States to promote a moderate image of Pakistan. His trip included speeches to a Jewish group and a women`s group while attending the U.N. General Assembly. Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin formally protested the reported remarks in a meeting with Musharraf on the sidelines of the U.N. gathering.
``Let me say with total sincerity that I never said that, and it has been misquoted,`` Musharraf told the women`s group. ``These are not my words, and I would go to the extent of saying I am not so silly and stupid to make comments of this sort.``
In an interview Saturday with CNN, Musharraf said that the remarks were made by someone else in his presence and not by him.
The rape comments were not the main focus of the article, published Tuesday, which covered a broad range of topics discussed in a 50-minute interview. In the article`s 12th paragraph, The Washington Post quoted Musharraf as saying: ``This has become a moneymaking concern. A lot of people say if you want to go abroad and get a visa for Canada or citizenship and be a millionaire, get yourself raped.``
The interview was conducted by three Washington Post reporters and was tape-recorded. A review of the recording yesterday confirmed that Musharraf -- who was surrounded by aides who took notes and also recorded the interview -- was accurately quoted.
Musharraf made the remarks at the end of a nine-minute discussion on the case of Mukhtar Mai, 33, an illiterate woman who spoke publicly about having been gang-raped on the orders of a village council in 2002. Mai won public sympathy and government support after she demanded that the men be charged and convicted. Earlier this year, however, the Bush administration assailed Musharraf when he blocked Mai from coming to the United States to publicize the case.
In the interview, Musharraf said that he is ``on the side of women`` but that Pakistan is being unfairly ``singled out when this curse is happening everywhere in the world.`` Speaking of another high-profile rape case, he said that he had arranged for a visa and for $50,000 to be given to Shazia Khalid -- a Pakistani medical doctor who was raped by a masked intruder, allegedly an army officer -- so she could leave the country. Khalid has applied for asylum in Canada.
Then, as the reporters prepared to move to the next question, Musharraf interjected the comments about rape as a moneymaking concern, saying it was the ``popular term`` in Islamabad.
``It is the easiest way of doing it,`` he continued. ``Every second person now wants to come up and get all the [pause] because there is so much of finances. Dr. Shazia, I don`t know. But maybe she`s a case of money, that she wants to make money. She is again talking all against Pakistan, against whatever we`ve done. But I know what the realities are.``
© 2005 The Washington Post Company
#5 Posted by friend on September 19, 2005 6:35:50 am
What is article about? Is it some lame attempt to justify what Musharraf said?
``Perhaps what Musharraf is so angry about is exactly this: the violence that is being inflicted upon our country through the crime of rape. Blaming the victim is a gross misunderstanding on his part; he must retract his statement, or at least replace it with a clarification that would do his stance more justice. What he tried to say to the Washington Post is that women are not the only victims of rape; Pakistan is becoming the victim of a type of “political” rape through the subsequent “exploitation” (in his eyes, anyway) of the rape victims, to the detriment of Pakistan’s image. ``
Why Pakistanis still won`t admit that they have a scoundral running their nation? Such type of comments made by anyone in a corporate setup will lead to his immediate sacking. Why are you willing to tolerate Mushy ``if he just clarifies``? Still pleading and hoping that Mushy will be next prophet !
A disgusting article by a woman!!
``Perhaps what Musharraf is so angry about is exactly this: the violence that is being inflicted upon our country through the crime of rape. Blaming the victim is a gross misunderstanding on his part; he must retract his statement, or at least replace it with a clarification that would do his stance more justice. What he tried to say to the Washington Post is that women are not the only victims of rape; Pakistan is becoming the victim of a type of “political” rape through the subsequent “exploitation” (in his eyes, anyway) of the rape victims, to the detriment of Pakistan’s image. ``
Why Pakistanis still won`t admit that they have a scoundral running their nation? Such type of comments made by anyone in a corporate setup will lead to his immediate sacking. Why are you willing to tolerate Mushy ``if he just clarifies``? Still pleading and hoping that Mushy will be next prophet !
A disgusting article by a woman!!
#6 Posted by twintopaz on September 19, 2005 6:47:05 am
Although i have no intention of defending Musharaf....
but we should not forget that in Dr. Shazia`s case, her room was closed from inside and there were no marks of forced entry!!! so whoever came inside, he was allowed to come inside by Dr. Shazia.
It was a heavily guarded area, and even a weakest shout could have gathered enough attention.
DNA Test by independent LAB failed to match DNA found on crime scene with that of any of the suspect including the major!!!
Still...we can no way suggest that she stage her own rape but we cannot also out rightly reject this thoery!!
but we should not forget that in Dr. Shazia`s case, her room was closed from inside and there were no marks of forced entry!!! so whoever came inside, he was allowed to come inside by Dr. Shazia.
It was a heavily guarded area, and even a weakest shout could have gathered enough attention.
DNA Test by independent LAB failed to match DNA found on crime scene with that of any of the suspect including the major!!!
Still...we can no way suggest that she stage her own rape but we cannot also out rightly reject this thoery!!
#7 Posted by mohar11 on September 19, 2005 6:52:19 am
Stupid as stupid does....Who is surprised that Mushy said this!!! Not me....
#8 Posted by friend on September 19, 2005 6:53:58 am
#6 by twintopaz
Another disgusting defender of faith!!
Another pathetic attempt based on I am not saying that Shazia got raped willingly but people say so!!
So anyone who is permitted by your mother to come inside your house is permitted to have sex with her? Is this custom of your land?
Another disgusting defender of faith!!
Another pathetic attempt based on I am not saying that Shazia got raped willingly but people say so!!
So anyone who is permitted by your mother to come inside your house is permitted to have sex with her? Is this custom of your land?
#9 Posted by jawahara on September 19, 2005 7:06:45 am
Interesting article on a timely topic, Bina.
Has President Musharraf done anything, since he seized power, to alleviate the plight of women in Pakistan? The problem here is that he said something...and that to the international press. I would be more interested in find out his track record with regard to women`s issues.
Instead, everything I have heard about him in regard to this issue has been somewhat wanting. Granted I don`t follow his progress, but I would like to know if this was simply a case of not thinking before he spoke or that he simply was not articulate enough. However, I think, he slipped up and really told Pakistani women what he thinks of their problems.
Has President Musharraf done anything, since he seized power, to alleviate the plight of women in Pakistan? The problem here is that he said something...and that to the international press. I would be more interested in find out his track record with regard to women`s issues.
Instead, everything I have heard about him in regard to this issue has been somewhat wanting. Granted I don`t follow his progress, but I would like to know if this was simply a case of not thinking before he spoke or that he simply was not articulate enough. However, I think, he slipped up and really told Pakistani women what he thinks of their problems.
#10 Posted by mohar11 on September 19, 2005 7:09:48 am
Re: # 6
//...that she stage her own rape but we cannot also out rightly reject this thoery!!...//
Of course not....we can never reject ``stage your own rape`` theory....I mean, there are thousands of such instances where this has happened, right? ...There are thousands of paki women who have ``staged their rapes`` and are living king-size in Canada with their ill-gotten millions - right?
That`s the reason this ``stage your own rape`` theory has gained currency recently and now President Mushy has spoken about it .... and we know that El Presidente is not silly or stupid[his own words] .... he never talks about what he is not already 100% sure about...
So there you go folks - another dazzling invention from pakiland - the theory of ``stage your own rape`` .... invented by Mushy and his fellow- pakis...
.....
Like I said - stupid as stupid does...
//...that she stage her own rape but we cannot also out rightly reject this thoery!!...//
Of course not....we can never reject ``stage your own rape`` theory....I mean, there are thousands of such instances where this has happened, right? ...There are thousands of paki women who have ``staged their rapes`` and are living king-size in Canada with their ill-gotten millions - right?
That`s the reason this ``stage your own rape`` theory has gained currency recently and now President Mushy has spoken about it .... and we know that El Presidente is not silly or stupid[his own words] .... he never talks about what he is not already 100% sure about...
So there you go folks - another dazzling invention from pakiland - the theory of ``stage your own rape`` .... invented by Mushy and his fellow- pakis...
.....
Like I said - stupid as stupid does...
#11 Posted by ana on September 19, 2005 7:16:18 am
i find that many parts of this read as an apologia for musharraf. and even if what he said is how you explain it as:
What he tried to say to the Washington Post is that women are not the only victims of rape; Pakistan is becoming the victim of a type of “political” rape through the subsequent “exploitation” (in his eyes, anyway) of the rape victims, to the detriment of Pakistan’s image.
let us talk about the other forms of exploitation in pakistan, the ``political rape`` of the nation itself, at the hands of a system that musharraf has been a part of. i don`t think that your explanation even justifies the stupidity and the ignorance of a leader that has suffered from foot in mouth disease before, and who indeed was exploiting shazia but the system that he is a part of.
anyway. . . . i`ve said enough.
What he tried to say to the Washington Post is that women are not the only victims of rape; Pakistan is becoming the victim of a type of “political” rape through the subsequent “exploitation” (in his eyes, anyway) of the rape victims, to the detriment of Pakistan’s image.
let us talk about the other forms of exploitation in pakistan, the ``political rape`` of the nation itself, at the hands of a system that musharraf has been a part of. i don`t think that your explanation even justifies the stupidity and the ignorance of a leader that has suffered from foot in mouth disease before, and who indeed was exploiting shazia but the system that he is a part of.
anyway. . . . i`ve said enough.
#12 Posted by mohar11 on September 19, 2005 7:21:53 am
Re: # 9
//.... would like to know if this was simply a case of not thinking before he spoke or that he simply was not articulate enough..//
Come on - Mushy was not ``articulate enough``? This guys loves to babble.... He is a freaking garulous m0r0n.... I saw his last interviews in CNN... the guy was almost quarelling with the lady interviewer ...... I mean which head of state ever talks like that?
//.... would like to know if this was simply a case of not thinking before he spoke or that he simply was not articulate enough..//
Come on - Mushy was not ``articulate enough``? This guys loves to babble.... He is a freaking garulous m0r0n.... I saw his last interviews in CNN... the guy was almost quarelling with the lady interviewer ...... I mean which head of state ever talks like that?
#13 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 7:28:12 am
Bina {``Musharraf’s statement brings to mind the remarks of the American prosecutor, a US state attorney, in the Aimal Kansi case: he said that Pakistanis were so morally corrupt that they were willing to sell their mothers for a few thousand dollars. There were howls of protest by Pakistanis at this statement. Pakistanis, we said, honor our mothers; we think that heaven is at the foot of our mothers, and what’s more, we respect our daughters and sisters as well. ``}
Bina,
Well written article and very timely of course. Mushy, as is true of most absolute rulers, says things while thinking about the merits of what he has just said. They are so used to speaking in ``draft mode`` that now and then they say thiings that they would not have said under most circumstances. What he said was more than criminal, it was stupid.
But now, let`s confront another issue that plagues Pakis. It is the emotional and hysterical way Pakis react to words. They will accept, even condone, terrible actions but will never forgive or forget words that hurt them emotionally. This is characteristic of backward and illiterate people. The fact that rapes happened in the Land of the Pure is not as important as what a two-bit dictator had to say about them. Never mind that the court in Lahore freed the perpetrators of rape, it is what people say that counts.
Please, I am sick of this stupid and illogical behavior of Pakis. They tolerate sticks and stones and worse, yet are ready to kill and die for stupid words.
Bina,
Well written article and very timely of course. Mushy, as is true of most absolute rulers, says things while thinking about the merits of what he has just said. They are so used to speaking in ``draft mode`` that now and then they say thiings that they would not have said under most circumstances. What he said was more than criminal, it was stupid.
But now, let`s confront another issue that plagues Pakis. It is the emotional and hysterical way Pakis react to words. They will accept, even condone, terrible actions but will never forgive or forget words that hurt them emotionally. This is characteristic of backward and illiterate people. The fact that rapes happened in the Land of the Pure is not as important as what a two-bit dictator had to say about them. Never mind that the court in Lahore freed the perpetrators of rape, it is what people say that counts.
Please, I am sick of this stupid and illogical behavior of Pakis. They tolerate sticks and stones and worse, yet are ready to kill and die for stupid words.
#14 Posted by jawahara on September 19, 2005 7:41:09 am
mohar 11.
Exactly! That was the point.
To me, whether he apologizes or not is immaterial. What he does is what matters.
Exactly! That was the point.
To me, whether he apologizes or not is immaterial. What he does is what matters.
#15 Posted by arjun_m on September 19, 2005 7:49:01 am
apparently someone from manto`s rag reads chowk...
One man’s Mango is another’s freedom fighter —Syed Mansoor Hussain
So, perhaps there exist in Pakistan something called “Rape Clubs” run by some Mango where women who want to earn millions and obtain Canadian citizenship offer themselves up for rape at the hands of feudal lords, members of security agencies and policemen. Why these people? For the obvious reason that getting raped by a nobody wouldn’t even get a woman a hearing with a member of the HRCP, let alone a visa for Canada. This might seem bizarre, but in Pakistan even the most bizarre idea is seemingly quite acceptable if it can make money for somebody somewhere.
One man’s Mango is another’s freedom fighter —Syed Mansoor Hussain
So, perhaps there exist in Pakistan something called “Rape Clubs” run by some Mango where women who want to earn millions and obtain Canadian citizenship offer themselves up for rape at the hands of feudal lords, members of security agencies and policemen. Why these people? For the obvious reason that getting raped by a nobody wouldn’t even get a woman a hearing with a member of the HRCP, let alone a visa for Canada. This might seem bizarre, but in Pakistan even the most bizarre idea is seemingly quite acceptable if it can make money for somebody somewhere.
#16 Posted by Romair on September 19, 2005 7:52:24 am
Bina: ``Pakistan is nowhere when it comes to providing any kind of support or help to women who are raped and abused.``
In an earlier article, you had clearly mentioned that you support feudalism. You even went to extent of justifying it.
Mukhtar Mai, in an interview, stated that the cause of her rape was feudalism. Social scientists have pointed to feudalism as the biggest cause of honor killings, panchayat-based rapes etc. While rapes occur in all countries, honor killings and panchyat-based rapes are what makes Pakistan unique. Those are rape in its worse form. And they generally are all in feudal societies. In fact, the whole mentality to rape in Pakistan is an off-shoot of a feudal mindset.
Based on this, I have always wondered how can you oppose rape, support individuals like Mukhtar Mai, while simultaneously justifying and openly defending the rape`s main cause (feudalism), as defined by Mukhtar Mai and others themselves.........
Could you kindly explain.........
In an earlier article, you had clearly mentioned that you support feudalism. You even went to extent of justifying it.
Mukhtar Mai, in an interview, stated that the cause of her rape was feudalism. Social scientists have pointed to feudalism as the biggest cause of honor killings, panchayat-based rapes etc. While rapes occur in all countries, honor killings and panchyat-based rapes are what makes Pakistan unique. Those are rape in its worse form. And they generally are all in feudal societies. In fact, the whole mentality to rape in Pakistan is an off-shoot of a feudal mindset.
Based on this, I have always wondered how can you oppose rape, support individuals like Mukhtar Mai, while simultaneously justifying and openly defending the rape`s main cause (feudalism), as defined by Mukhtar Mai and others themselves.........
Could you kindly explain.........
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