Rape and Exploitation - Pakistan’s Dilemma
Bina Shah September 18, 2005
#1 Posted by nazarhayatkhan on September 19, 2005 1:39:55 am
Bina
You are so Right. Musharraf has no idea of the intricacies of thoughts that you have expressed here.
He is busy hiring consultants for improving the country`s image - and then goes on to make this statement.
India-Pakistan peace process has also often been a victim of his such pearls of wisdom.
But this one was an outright lump of shame that he has heaped on the country.
nhk
You are so Right. Musharraf has no idea of the intricacies of thoughts that you have expressed here.
He is busy hiring consultants for improving the country`s image - and then goes on to make this statement.
India-Pakistan peace process has also often been a victim of his such pearls of wisdom.
But this one was an outright lump of shame that he has heaped on the country.
nhk
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#2 Posted by imtiaz84 on September 19, 2005 4:17:30 am
Dear Bina,
I do agree with you and Nazar.The issue like this demand great delicacy when discussed in the public.I am totally surprised by remarks of President.In my view, he should take all possible action showing the victims that honor of the women is dearest to every Pakistani.All possible laws should be inforced to stop these kinds of incedents to be repeated in future .This is only possible if the crimnals are punished in a examplary fashion.
Rgds
Imtiaz
I do agree with you and Nazar.The issue like this demand great delicacy when discussed in the public.I am totally surprised by remarks of President.In my view, he should take all possible action showing the victims that honor of the women is dearest to every Pakistani.All possible laws should be inforced to stop these kinds of incedents to be repeated in future .This is only possible if the crimnals are punished in a examplary fashion.
Rgds
Imtiaz
#3 Posted by harish_hyd on September 19, 2005 4:48:55 am
There is no doubt that Musharraf thinks rape is wrong.
Dear Bina,
I`m surprised you have chosen to believe that Mushy thinks rape is a crime. Just what makes you think so? Wasn`t this the man who proclaimed Capt. Hammad to be innocent in the Shazia Khalid rape case without even calling for an inquiry? Of what use is it if he thinks rape is a crime, when he, the most powerful man in Pakistan couldn`t (or better still, didn`t) so much as order a fair trial to determine whether the accused captain was indeed guilty of the crime. After all, isn`t silence another form of acquiesence? And in this case, it wasn`t even silence. Mushy went the whole hog to defend Hammad.
Regards,
Harish
Dear Bina,
I`m surprised you have chosen to believe that Mushy thinks rape is a crime. Just what makes you think so? Wasn`t this the man who proclaimed Capt. Hammad to be innocent in the Shazia Khalid rape case without even calling for an inquiry? Of what use is it if he thinks rape is a crime, when he, the most powerful man in Pakistan couldn`t (or better still, didn`t) so much as order a fair trial to determine whether the accused captain was indeed guilty of the crime. After all, isn`t silence another form of acquiesence? And in this case, it wasn`t even silence. Mushy went the whole hog to defend Hammad.
Regards,
Harish
#4 Posted by Catchy on September 19, 2005 5:44:20 am
What an image building of Pakistan and Pakistanis! Now we are not only corrupt, terrorists and rapists; we are proven liars also. Only a liar of Musharraf`s stature can deny his own recorded statement.
washingtonpost.com
Musharraf Denies Rape Comments
Recording Shows Post Article Correctly Quoted Pakistani President
By Glenn Kessler
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, September 19, 2005; A12
Gen. Pervez Musharraf, the president of Pakistan, has denied telling The Washington Post in an interview last week that claiming rape has become a ``moneymaking concern`` in Pakistan and that many Pakistanis felt it was an easy way to make money and get a Canadian visa.
The comments have outraged women`s groups and sparked protests across Pakistan, marring a high-profile trip that Musharraf has made to the United States to promote a moderate image of Pakistan. His trip included speeches to a Jewish group and a women`s group while attending the U.N. General Assembly. Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin formally protested the reported remarks in a meeting with Musharraf on the sidelines of the U.N. gathering.
``Let me say with total sincerity that I never said that, and it has been misquoted,`` Musharraf told the women`s group. ``These are not my words, and I would go to the extent of saying I am not so silly and stupid to make comments of this sort.``
In an interview Saturday with CNN, Musharraf said that the remarks were made by someone else in his presence and not by him.
The rape comments were not the main focus of the article, published Tuesday, which covered a broad range of topics discussed in a 50-minute interview. In the article`s 12th paragraph, The Washington Post quoted Musharraf as saying: ``This has become a moneymaking concern. A lot of people say if you want to go abroad and get a visa for Canada or citizenship and be a millionaire, get yourself raped.``
The interview was conducted by three Washington Post reporters and was tape-recorded. A review of the recording yesterday confirmed that Musharraf -- who was surrounded by aides who took notes and also recorded the interview -- was accurately quoted.
Musharraf made the remarks at the end of a nine-minute discussion on the case of Mukhtar Mai, 33, an illiterate woman who spoke publicly about having been gang-raped on the orders of a village council in 2002. Mai won public sympathy and government support after she demanded that the men be charged and convicted. Earlier this year, however, the Bush administration assailed Musharraf when he blocked Mai from coming to the United States to publicize the case.
In the interview, Musharraf said that he is ``on the side of women`` but that Pakistan is being unfairly ``singled out when this curse is happening everywhere in the world.`` Speaking of another high-profile rape case, he said that he had arranged for a visa and for $50,000 to be given to Shazia Khalid -- a Pakistani medical doctor who was raped by a masked intruder, allegedly an army officer -- so she could leave the country. Khalid has applied for asylum in Canada.
Then, as the reporters prepared to move to the next question, Musharraf interjected the comments about rape as a moneymaking concern, saying it was the ``popular term`` in Islamabad.
``It is the easiest way of doing it,`` he continued. ``Every second person now wants to come up and get all the [pause] because there is so much of finances. Dr. Shazia, I don`t know. But maybe she`s a case of money, that she wants to make money. She is again talking all against Pakistan, against whatever we`ve done. But I know what the realities are.``
© 2005 The Washington Post Company
#5 Posted by friend on September 19, 2005 6:35:50 am
What is article about? Is it some lame attempt to justify what Musharraf said?
``Perhaps what Musharraf is so angry about is exactly this: the violence that is being inflicted upon our country through the crime of rape. Blaming the victim is a gross misunderstanding on his part; he must retract his statement, or at least replace it with a clarification that would do his stance more justice. What he tried to say to the Washington Post is that women are not the only victims of rape; Pakistan is becoming the victim of a type of “political” rape through the subsequent “exploitation” (in his eyes, anyway) of the rape victims, to the detriment of Pakistan’s image. ``
Why Pakistanis still won`t admit that they have a scoundral running their nation? Such type of comments made by anyone in a corporate setup will lead to his immediate sacking. Why are you willing to tolerate Mushy ``if he just clarifies``? Still pleading and hoping that Mushy will be next prophet !
A disgusting article by a woman!!
``Perhaps what Musharraf is so angry about is exactly this: the violence that is being inflicted upon our country through the crime of rape. Blaming the victim is a gross misunderstanding on his part; he must retract his statement, or at least replace it with a clarification that would do his stance more justice. What he tried to say to the Washington Post is that women are not the only victims of rape; Pakistan is becoming the victim of a type of “political” rape through the subsequent “exploitation” (in his eyes, anyway) of the rape victims, to the detriment of Pakistan’s image. ``
Why Pakistanis still won`t admit that they have a scoundral running their nation? Such type of comments made by anyone in a corporate setup will lead to his immediate sacking. Why are you willing to tolerate Mushy ``if he just clarifies``? Still pleading and hoping that Mushy will be next prophet !
A disgusting article by a woman!!
#6 Posted by twintopaz on September 19, 2005 6:47:05 am
Although i have no intention of defending Musharaf....
but we should not forget that in Dr. Shazia`s case, her room was closed from inside and there were no marks of forced entry!!! so whoever came inside, he was allowed to come inside by Dr. Shazia.
It was a heavily guarded area, and even a weakest shout could have gathered enough attention.
DNA Test by independent LAB failed to match DNA found on crime scene with that of any of the suspect including the major!!!
Still...we can no way suggest that she stage her own rape but we cannot also out rightly reject this thoery!!
but we should not forget that in Dr. Shazia`s case, her room was closed from inside and there were no marks of forced entry!!! so whoever came inside, he was allowed to come inside by Dr. Shazia.
It was a heavily guarded area, and even a weakest shout could have gathered enough attention.
DNA Test by independent LAB failed to match DNA found on crime scene with that of any of the suspect including the major!!!
Still...we can no way suggest that she stage her own rape but we cannot also out rightly reject this thoery!!
#7 Posted by mohar11 on September 19, 2005 6:52:19 am
Stupid as stupid does....Who is surprised that Mushy said this!!! Not me....
#8 Posted by friend on September 19, 2005 6:53:58 am
#6 by twintopaz
Another disgusting defender of faith!!
Another pathetic attempt based on I am not saying that Shazia got raped willingly but people say so!!
So anyone who is permitted by your mother to come inside your house is permitted to have sex with her? Is this custom of your land?
Another disgusting defender of faith!!
Another pathetic attempt based on I am not saying that Shazia got raped willingly but people say so!!
So anyone who is permitted by your mother to come inside your house is permitted to have sex with her? Is this custom of your land?
#9 Posted by jawahara on September 19, 2005 7:06:45 am
Interesting article on a timely topic, Bina.
Has President Musharraf done anything, since he seized power, to alleviate the plight of women in Pakistan? The problem here is that he said something...and that to the international press. I would be more interested in find out his track record with regard to women`s issues.
Instead, everything I have heard about him in regard to this issue has been somewhat wanting. Granted I don`t follow his progress, but I would like to know if this was simply a case of not thinking before he spoke or that he simply was not articulate enough. However, I think, he slipped up and really told Pakistani women what he thinks of their problems.
Has President Musharraf done anything, since he seized power, to alleviate the plight of women in Pakistan? The problem here is that he said something...and that to the international press. I would be more interested in find out his track record with regard to women`s issues.
Instead, everything I have heard about him in regard to this issue has been somewhat wanting. Granted I don`t follow his progress, but I would like to know if this was simply a case of not thinking before he spoke or that he simply was not articulate enough. However, I think, he slipped up and really told Pakistani women what he thinks of their problems.
#10 Posted by mohar11 on September 19, 2005 7:09:48 am
Re: # 6
//...that she stage her own rape but we cannot also out rightly reject this thoery!!...//
Of course not....we can never reject ``stage your own rape`` theory....I mean, there are thousands of such instances where this has happened, right? ...There are thousands of paki women who have ``staged their rapes`` and are living king-size in Canada with their ill-gotten millions - right?
That`s the reason this ``stage your own rape`` theory has gained currency recently and now President Mushy has spoken about it .... and we know that El Presidente is not silly or stupid[his own words] .... he never talks about what he is not already 100% sure about...
So there you go folks - another dazzling invention from pakiland - the theory of ``stage your own rape`` .... invented by Mushy and his fellow- pakis...
.....
Like I said - stupid as stupid does...
//...that she stage her own rape but we cannot also out rightly reject this thoery!!...//
Of course not....we can never reject ``stage your own rape`` theory....I mean, there are thousands of such instances where this has happened, right? ...There are thousands of paki women who have ``staged their rapes`` and are living king-size in Canada with their ill-gotten millions - right?
That`s the reason this ``stage your own rape`` theory has gained currency recently and now President Mushy has spoken about it .... and we know that El Presidente is not silly or stupid[his own words] .... he never talks about what he is not already 100% sure about...
So there you go folks - another dazzling invention from pakiland - the theory of ``stage your own rape`` .... invented by Mushy and his fellow- pakis...
.....
Like I said - stupid as stupid does...
#11 Posted by ana on September 19, 2005 7:16:18 am
i find that many parts of this read as an apologia for musharraf. and even if what he said is how you explain it as:
What he tried to say to the Washington Post is that women are not the only victims of rape; Pakistan is becoming the victim of a type of “political” rape through the subsequent “exploitation” (in his eyes, anyway) of the rape victims, to the detriment of Pakistan’s image.
let us talk about the other forms of exploitation in pakistan, the ``political rape`` of the nation itself, at the hands of a system that musharraf has been a part of. i don`t think that your explanation even justifies the stupidity and the ignorance of a leader that has suffered from foot in mouth disease before, and who indeed was exploiting shazia but the system that he is a part of.
anyway. . . . i`ve said enough.
What he tried to say to the Washington Post is that women are not the only victims of rape; Pakistan is becoming the victim of a type of “political” rape through the subsequent “exploitation” (in his eyes, anyway) of the rape victims, to the detriment of Pakistan’s image.
let us talk about the other forms of exploitation in pakistan, the ``political rape`` of the nation itself, at the hands of a system that musharraf has been a part of. i don`t think that your explanation even justifies the stupidity and the ignorance of a leader that has suffered from foot in mouth disease before, and who indeed was exploiting shazia but the system that he is a part of.
anyway. . . . i`ve said enough.
#12 Posted by mohar11 on September 19, 2005 7:21:53 am
Re: # 9
//.... would like to know if this was simply a case of not thinking before he spoke or that he simply was not articulate enough..//
Come on - Mushy was not ``articulate enough``? This guys loves to babble.... He is a freaking garulous m0r0n.... I saw his last interviews in CNN... the guy was almost quarelling with the lady interviewer ...... I mean which head of state ever talks like that?
//.... would like to know if this was simply a case of not thinking before he spoke or that he simply was not articulate enough..//
Come on - Mushy was not ``articulate enough``? This guys loves to babble.... He is a freaking garulous m0r0n.... I saw his last interviews in CNN... the guy was almost quarelling with the lady interviewer ...... I mean which head of state ever talks like that?
#13 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 7:28:12 am
Bina {``Musharraf’s statement brings to mind the remarks of the American prosecutor, a US state attorney, in the Aimal Kansi case: he said that Pakistanis were so morally corrupt that they were willing to sell their mothers for a few thousand dollars. There were howls of protest by Pakistanis at this statement. Pakistanis, we said, honor our mothers; we think that heaven is at the foot of our mothers, and what’s more, we respect our daughters and sisters as well. ``}
Bina,
Well written article and very timely of course. Mushy, as is true of most absolute rulers, says things while thinking about the merits of what he has just said. They are so used to speaking in ``draft mode`` that now and then they say thiings that they would not have said under most circumstances. What he said was more than criminal, it was stupid.
But now, let`s confront another issue that plagues Pakis. It is the emotional and hysterical way Pakis react to words. They will accept, even condone, terrible actions but will never forgive or forget words that hurt them emotionally. This is characteristic of backward and illiterate people. The fact that rapes happened in the Land of the Pure is not as important as what a two-bit dictator had to say about them. Never mind that the court in Lahore freed the perpetrators of rape, it is what people say that counts.
Please, I am sick of this stupid and illogical behavior of Pakis. They tolerate sticks and stones and worse, yet are ready to kill and die for stupid words.
Bina,
Well written article and very timely of course. Mushy, as is true of most absolute rulers, says things while thinking about the merits of what he has just said. They are so used to speaking in ``draft mode`` that now and then they say thiings that they would not have said under most circumstances. What he said was more than criminal, it was stupid.
But now, let`s confront another issue that plagues Pakis. It is the emotional and hysterical way Pakis react to words. They will accept, even condone, terrible actions but will never forgive or forget words that hurt them emotionally. This is characteristic of backward and illiterate people. The fact that rapes happened in the Land of the Pure is not as important as what a two-bit dictator had to say about them. Never mind that the court in Lahore freed the perpetrators of rape, it is what people say that counts.
Please, I am sick of this stupid and illogical behavior of Pakis. They tolerate sticks and stones and worse, yet are ready to kill and die for stupid words.
#14 Posted by jawahara on September 19, 2005 7:41:09 am
mohar 11.
Exactly! That was the point.
To me, whether he apologizes or not is immaterial. What he does is what matters.
Exactly! That was the point.
To me, whether he apologizes or not is immaterial. What he does is what matters.
#15 Posted by arjun_m on September 19, 2005 7:49:01 am
apparently someone from manto`s rag reads chowk...
One man’s Mango is another’s freedom fighter —Syed Mansoor Hussain
So, perhaps there exist in Pakistan something called “Rape Clubs” run by some Mango where women who want to earn millions and obtain Canadian citizenship offer themselves up for rape at the hands of feudal lords, members of security agencies and policemen. Why these people? For the obvious reason that getting raped by a nobody wouldn’t even get a woman a hearing with a member of the HRCP, let alone a visa for Canada. This might seem bizarre, but in Pakistan even the most bizarre idea is seemingly quite acceptable if it can make money for somebody somewhere.
One man’s Mango is another’s freedom fighter —Syed Mansoor Hussain
So, perhaps there exist in Pakistan something called “Rape Clubs” run by some Mango where women who want to earn millions and obtain Canadian citizenship offer themselves up for rape at the hands of feudal lords, members of security agencies and policemen. Why these people? For the obvious reason that getting raped by a nobody wouldn’t even get a woman a hearing with a member of the HRCP, let alone a visa for Canada. This might seem bizarre, but in Pakistan even the most bizarre idea is seemingly quite acceptable if it can make money for somebody somewhere.
#16 Posted by Romair on September 19, 2005 7:52:24 am
Bina: ``Pakistan is nowhere when it comes to providing any kind of support or help to women who are raped and abused.``
In an earlier article, you had clearly mentioned that you support feudalism. You even went to extent of justifying it.
Mukhtar Mai, in an interview, stated that the cause of her rape was feudalism. Social scientists have pointed to feudalism as the biggest cause of honor killings, panchayat-based rapes etc. While rapes occur in all countries, honor killings and panchyat-based rapes are what makes Pakistan unique. Those are rape in its worse form. And they generally are all in feudal societies. In fact, the whole mentality to rape in Pakistan is an off-shoot of a feudal mindset.
Based on this, I have always wondered how can you oppose rape, support individuals like Mukhtar Mai, while simultaneously justifying and openly defending the rape`s main cause (feudalism), as defined by Mukhtar Mai and others themselves.........
Could you kindly explain.........
In an earlier article, you had clearly mentioned that you support feudalism. You even went to extent of justifying it.
Mukhtar Mai, in an interview, stated that the cause of her rape was feudalism. Social scientists have pointed to feudalism as the biggest cause of honor killings, panchayat-based rapes etc. While rapes occur in all countries, honor killings and panchyat-based rapes are what makes Pakistan unique. Those are rape in its worse form. And they generally are all in feudal societies. In fact, the whole mentality to rape in Pakistan is an off-shoot of a feudal mindset.
Based on this, I have always wondered how can you oppose rape, support individuals like Mukhtar Mai, while simultaneously justifying and openly defending the rape`s main cause (feudalism), as defined by Mukhtar Mai and others themselves.........
Could you kindly explain.........
#17 Posted by miriamk on September 19, 2005 8:15:36 am
There is no way to sugar coat this. Musharraf’s initial comments were despicable and his subsequent retraction or explanation is a disgrace. A man who can’t stand by his words is unfit to run a country. I think the man’s misogynism has finally broken through the façade. He’s more concerned about preserving the international “image” of Pakistan than working towards eradicating the problem. These atrocities continue to happen under his watch. He’s part of the problem, not the solution.
#18 Posted by arjun_m on September 19, 2005 8:21:32 am
#16 by Romair on September 19, 2005 7:52am PT
Could you kindly explain.........
Because the army is the biggest feudal force in Pakiland...
feu·dal·ism
A political and economic system of Europe from the 9th to about the 15th century, based on the holding of all land in fief or fee and the resulting relation of lord to vassal and characterized by homage, legal and military service of tenants, and forfeiture.
And that`s not from me, it`s from Dr Ayesha Siddiqua
Could you kindly explain.........
Because the army is the biggest feudal force in Pakiland...
feu·dal·ism
A political and economic system of Europe from the 9th to about the 15th century, based on the holding of all land in fief or fee and the resulting relation of lord to vassal and characterized by homage, legal and military service of tenants, and forfeiture.
And that`s not from me, it`s from Dr Ayesha Siddiqua
irshadsalim28: Does India have this act too?
asidd66: No. They got rid of such acts when they did land reforms. Remember India is a state moving towards capitalism. A capitalist state would not create means for institutionalizing feudalism
irshadsalim28: Are you saying Pak army has institutionalized feudalism?
asidd66: I am saying that it is a feudal institution as well
irshadsalim28: So in that case their interests converge with feudal system correct?
asidd66: Yes
irshadsalim28: Do u think they resisted land reform along with the feudal?
asidd66: I wouldn`t say that they resisted but they had sufficient stakes not to pursue a policy that had a negative impact on their benefits. For example, who buys the land the Faujis sell? The local feudal or the new rural capitalist class that is equally feudal in nature. Why should the officers then try to destroy the class that bails them out financially. After 1999, generals have started to keep their lands
#19 Posted by Behram1 on September 19, 2005 9:12:08 am
Dear Ms. Shah,
I always enjoy reading your articles. Thank you for such a balanced article. I totally agree that all government officals, down to the local policewalla should get this education.....[And perhaps it should be made mandatory for all government figures to attend a rape awareness class so that they can see just what a cruel, horrific crime rape really is for any woman, Pakistani or otherwise.]
Also, as I suggested on the other site, civic classes should be made a compulsory class for all Pakistanis regardless. And also, to those who expect a visa abroad.
Respectfully submitted,
#20 Posted by Urstruly on September 19, 2005 9:29:42 am
In Pakistan there hasn`t been any legislation since July 4, 1977. This country is basically running on Presidential decrees called ordinances. According to the Constitution of 1973 President has powers to issue an interim decree which automatically expired unless validated by the Parliament. When Zia pissed in the face of the the constitution he changed this law and Presidential ordinances become permanent since then. There is some exception in the Sikha Shahi rule of BB AND NS where some legislation took place but mostly it was to increase the monthly allowances or other benefits of the memebers of Parliament.
This dictators rule is no exception. The effect of this lack of legislation has turned courts into mere Kangroo courts. In Pakistani courts today there are 10 million undecided cases pending - 10 million that is. Judges have been rendedred into no more than Huxley`s monkeys with the typewriters. It will probably take 2-3 centuries to clear the backlog. Is there a wonder why people are taking law into their hand, and using rape as one of the method to exact revenge on each other.
This a system that suits military dictators. Slowly, this dictator is paving the way for establishing Martial Law courts under the pretense that civil law has failed to deliver. To day, rape has become a state policy to intimidate general public into submission. Ms. Sonia Naz`s case is indicative of the mindset of military dictator and his goons. These goons in fact are sending a message to pakistani nation by the recent string of rape cases that ``ukhaaR lo jo ukhaaR sakte ho``
At this critical juncture in history we the people of Pakistan must have a unified voice against these attrocities that are being committed against us and our woman by these goons. For the sake of the honor of our sisters, mothers, wives, and daughters we must stop accusing each other of American agents and especially the NGOs, and although NGOs take money from Western countries to twist the facts to blame it on religion and our values, they must also stop it until these attrocities stop. These dictators are taking advantage of our differences. We must not let them.
This dictators rule is no exception. The effect of this lack of legislation has turned courts into mere Kangroo courts. In Pakistani courts today there are 10 million undecided cases pending - 10 million that is. Judges have been rendedred into no more than Huxley`s monkeys with the typewriters. It will probably take 2-3 centuries to clear the backlog. Is there a wonder why people are taking law into their hand, and using rape as one of the method to exact revenge on each other.
This a system that suits military dictators. Slowly, this dictator is paving the way for establishing Martial Law courts under the pretense that civil law has failed to deliver. To day, rape has become a state policy to intimidate general public into submission. Ms. Sonia Naz`s case is indicative of the mindset of military dictator and his goons. These goons in fact are sending a message to pakistani nation by the recent string of rape cases that ``ukhaaR lo jo ukhaaR sakte ho``
At this critical juncture in history we the people of Pakistan must have a unified voice against these attrocities that are being committed against us and our woman by these goons. For the sake of the honor of our sisters, mothers, wives, and daughters we must stop accusing each other of American agents and especially the NGOs, and although NGOs take money from Western countries to twist the facts to blame it on religion and our values, they must also stop it until these attrocities stop. These dictators are taking advantage of our differences. We must not let them.
#21 Posted by faisaluno on September 19, 2005 9:40:12 am
are pakistani women braver than indian women? how come indian women mentioned below are not raising a stink and why are`nt the ``south asian`` human rights group based in the u.s. talking about them and asking indian govt to let human rights group into kashmir?
kya izzat of pak women is more qeemtee? or is there some daal may kaala?
also fyi, wp being a big supporter of iraq war gave front page coverage to stories confirming presence of wmd in iraq. in contrast, stories questioning this claim was hidden in the back pages. this kahani can be confirmed from w.p`s own website.
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1040113/asp/nation/story%5F2780541.asp
Veil ripped off honour killings
MONOBINA GUPTA
New Delhi, Jan. 12: Punjab and Haryana have one more blot on them. Already
tainted by increasing incidence of female foeticide, now they have activists
crying foul over ``honour killings`` in the states.
...``People keep talking about honour killings in Pakistan. But they are happening
in India all the time. And the government does not even want to acknowledge it,``
said All India Democratic Women`s Association (Aidwa) general secretary Brinda
Karat.
...Aidwa points out that in cases involving couples from upper castes, there is
always an effort to save the young man. ``The woman from the same caste, however,
will be killed for destroying the honour of the family and community,`` the
report says. The girl`s death is never reported. ``It is as if she never
existed,`` it adds.
The violence against the couple, particularly the woman, takes various forms.
Caste panchayats patronised by all political parties deliver the sentence, which
is usually nothing short of murder. Often the murder is portrayed as an act of
suicide.
``For example, the panchayat and the family can force the persons concerned to
drink poison or sexually assault the women members of the family of the
accused,`` the Aidwa report says.
and its not as if courts are a lot of help:
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1475213,0008.htm
On August 12, former additional sessions judge of Mumbai High Court Dr Laxmi Rao let off a rape accused with a day’s imprisonment and a fine of Rs 50,000.
#22 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 9:48:12 am
#21, faisaluno {``how come indian women mentioned below are not raising a stink and why are`nt the ``south asian`` human rights group based in the u.s. talking about them ``}
Shabash, Shabash,
As long as you can point to rapes in India, somehow things don`t look so bad in Pakistan. As long as we can find Indians who are ravaged, impoverished, hungry, homeless, or illiterate, Pakistan does not need to lower its head. Look, our bete noir, our arch-enemy, our rival, is also blemished. We can relax, we don`t have to reform, we are keeping pace with India.
Listen, one day, India will almost obliterate these negatives, then how will you justify your evils? Remember how backward India was in terms of automobiles, technology, foreign exchange, medecine, and agriculture?
Shabash, Shabash,
As long as you can point to rapes in India, somehow things don`t look so bad in Pakistan. As long as we can find Indians who are ravaged, impoverished, hungry, homeless, or illiterate, Pakistan does not need to lower its head. Look, our bete noir, our arch-enemy, our rival, is also blemished. We can relax, we don`t have to reform, we are keeping pace with India.
Listen, one day, India will almost obliterate these negatives, then how will you justify your evils? Remember how backward India was in terms of automobiles, technology, foreign exchange, medecine, and agriculture?
#23 Posted by faisaluno on September 19, 2005 9:55:01 am
here is a story from everone`s favourite secular republic. when you read this, you will realise that mm got of rather easily. (warning: picture in the link is rather gruesome)
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1637037_1,00.html
At 13, this girl had to marry a paedophile. Her father-in-law raped her and then cut off her nose
Lawyers are fighting Rojda`s case after her attackers went free
ROJDA is still alive. So, she got off lightly.
Rodja is still alive, Birgul Isik soon may not be. The Turkish mother of three is in a coma after she was shot by her 14-year-old stepson for talking on television about fleeing from her abusive husband.
Ayse Aydin, 18, is dead. Her family says that she committed suicide. Her husband, who was often away from home for work, says that her family mutilated her sexually and killed her for allegedly consorting with other men.
All these crimes have been committed in the name of honour in Turkey, a country that will begin membership talks with the European Union in October.
...A law annulling the sentences of rapists who marry their victims has been scrapped, while supposed provocation is no longer a ground for lenient treatment in the case of honour killings.
...Human rights activists welcome the reforms but say that the battle has only just begun. Eren Keskin, the head of the Istanbul branch of the Human Rights Association, said: “There are some positive developments in these new laws. However, in Turkey the written law and its enforcement can be two very different things. Until the feudal make-up of society, until the very mentality behind these crimes changes, we cannot expect anything very different.”
#24 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 10:00:05 am
#23, Yes, Turkey has a long way to go before it comes up to European standards of decency, respect for individual rights, and protection of citizens from the corruption of feudal lords and religious extremists. Hopefully, they will get there soon.
Thanks for your concern about Turkish citizens. :)
Thanks for your concern about Turkish citizens. :)
#25 Posted by satyamvada on September 19, 2005 10:01:07 am
Of course in Pakistan, it is also ok to kidnap, forcibly convert and
marry hindu women.
www.jang.com
Saturday September 17, 2005-- Shaaban 12, 1426 A.H.
I’ve embraced Islam, says missing Sapna
By our correspondent
SUKKUR: A meeting of religious parties was told that 18-year-old Sapna, reported missing for the last two days, had abandoned her home of her own free will and had embraced Islam and married Shamsuddin, alias Shaman.
The meeting was attended by JUI leaders Maulana Deedar Lashari, Shah Muhammad Shah, Fida Muhammad, Dr AG Ansari, Hafiz Mir Muhammad Banglani and others who asked the police to stop arresting innocent people.
Speaking on the occasion, Dr AG Ansari said they had provided protection to the Hindu community and continue to provide it to them.
On the other hand, Sapna, whose Islamic name is Mehak, told Jacobabad-based journalists by phone that she left her house of her own free will, and no one had kidnapped her. Sapna added that she has embraced Islam of her own volition and married Shamsuddin of her free will according to the Islamic Shariah. Hundreds of MMA activists took out a protest rally against the arrest of innocent people by the police, following the disappearance of Sapna. The rally started from Madrassa Qasmia and marched through different streets. The participants claimed that the girl has embraced Islam and married of her own free will.
On the other hand the Hindu community of the city also observed shutter-down on Friday and took out a protest rally. President of the Hindu Panchayat Baboo Mahesh Kumar warned that if Sapna were not recovered soon, a strong protest movement would be launched throughout the district.
#26 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 10:02:13 am
#23, Now, don`t you feel a whole lot better. Two secular democracies, one to the east, another one to the west, part of it in advanced Europe, have problems with abuse of women. This means that Pakistan is not any worse than, or may be even as well advanced as, democratic societies.
#27 Posted by faisaluno on September 19, 2005 10:08:26 am
yeah, in india, they are doing it out of their own free will,
http://www.countercurrents.org/dalit-nagaraj230805.htm
``...There is very little solace for a Dalit in religion or even in death; various types of discriminations continue in these spheres. The religious rights of the Dalit — to worship — are often severely restricted. And the burial grounds for Dalits often lack proper approach roads and attempts to reach these grounds through land belonging to `caste Hindus` often invite reprisals.
The fact that Dalits have to face such deprivation, discrimination, and violence — in all their intensity and range — from `caste Hindus` is perhaps explicable in terms of the central role caste plays in our society. The bases and forms of such assertion by Dalits have been varied and many. ....It has often taken the form of conversion to Islam...``
#28 Posted by arjun_m on September 19, 2005 10:11:15 am
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#29 Posted by faisaluno on September 19, 2005 10:16:50 am
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#30 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 10:19:12 am
#29, You are so predictable. When you are losing your debate, you immediately rush to personal remarks such as the ones you used in #29. For a minute I thought you would be able to sustain a debate. Poor ``sharif`` banker. Is all that usury giving you a complex?
#31 Posted by faisaluno on September 19, 2005 10:24:21 am
hey man, talking about being predictable, its not my name that appears in the guiness book of world record for the most number of times being banned by a website.
btw chowk-staff, my earlier posts had no personal attacks. you should delete my post #29 as well as those posts attacking me personally.
i think the author of this piece deserves this respect.
#32 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 10:28:01 am
#31, Pennance suits you so well. At least you seem to have repented and recognized your vulgarity and profanity. Realization is the first step toward resolution.
#33 Posted by friend on September 19, 2005 10:29:19 am
Now this faisaluno comes up with another excuse --
3. Rape of Pakistani women is justified because Turkish and Indians do so
Earlier two excuses were
2. You can have sex with a woman in Pakistan if she lets you enter her house
1. Pakistani women get raped to make money and get Canadian Visa.
We still have place for few more gems!!
3. Rape of Pakistani women is justified because Turkish and Indians do so
Earlier two excuses were
2. You can have sex with a woman in Pakistan if she lets you enter her house
1. Pakistani women get raped to make money and get Canadian Visa.
We still have place for few more gems!!
#34 Posted by mohar11 on September 19, 2005 11:15:18 am
Re: # 33
Actually it`s even worse ... pakis like faisluno don`t realize that this is NOT about rape per se .... this is about Paki establishment`s repsonse to rape and their victims.....At the highest level of the ``govt`` - pakis harrass/oppress rape victims instead of helping them....
Rape happens everywhere - india, turkey, US .... But no head of state goes around blaming the victims....It`s just common sense - but pakis don`t get it.......And that`s not surprising - considering the history of these people and the way their nation has evolved ... common sense is not a paki strong-point...
Actually it`s even worse ... pakis like faisluno don`t realize that this is NOT about rape per se .... this is about Paki establishment`s repsonse to rape and their victims.....At the highest level of the ``govt`` - pakis harrass/oppress rape victims instead of helping them....
Rape happens everywhere - india, turkey, US .... But no head of state goes around blaming the victims....It`s just common sense - but pakis don`t get it.......And that`s not surprising - considering the history of these people and the way their nation has evolved ... common sense is not a paki strong-point...
#35 Posted by temporal on September 19, 2005 11:21:30 am
binoo:
…good piece…
feel like a parrot….have mentioned this in the ilog and the earlier two (azra and kalpana)articles…while others are discussing the short term implications i’d rather tackle the long term approach:
…women are at the bottom of the totem pole in desilands
…empowerment is the only game… a long term project and outlook is needed to turn the tables…something along the lines of micro-financed projects like the grameen bank and a mix of poverty alleviation projects
there is a fellow in karachi who was here in TO recently collecting donations for a project in karachi…his charity or foundation pays the young street beggars Rs.20 per day to get them off the streets and into the make-shift school room…
economic empowerment is the best hope for the women…the desi male`s (of which i am one) mentality is suspect, corrupt and vested and needs to be prodded sufficiently and intermittently to provide this empowerment
* * *
... was about to add more to this when i read #17 that succinctly captures what i wanted to write:
There is no way to sugar coat this. Musharraf’s initial comments were despicable and his subsequent retraction or explanation is a disgrace. A man who can’t stand by his words is unfit to run a country. I think the man’s misogynism has finally broken through the façade. He’s more concerned about preserving the international “image” of Pakistan than working towards eradicating the problem. These atrocities continue to happen under his watch. He’s part of the problem, not the solution.
lve
t
…good piece…
feel like a parrot….have mentioned this in the ilog and the earlier two (azra and kalpana)articles…while others are discussing the short term implications i’d rather tackle the long term approach:
…women are at the bottom of the totem pole in desilands
…empowerment is the only game… a long term project and outlook is needed to turn the tables…something along the lines of micro-financed projects like the grameen bank and a mix of poverty alleviation projects
there is a fellow in karachi who was here in TO recently collecting donations for a project in karachi…his charity or foundation pays the young street beggars Rs.20 per day to get them off the streets and into the make-shift school room…
economic empowerment is the best hope for the women…the desi male`s (of which i am one) mentality is suspect, corrupt and vested and needs to be prodded sufficiently and intermittently to provide this empowerment
* * *
... was about to add more to this when i read #17 that succinctly captures what i wanted to write:
There is no way to sugar coat this. Musharraf’s initial comments were despicable and his subsequent retraction or explanation is a disgrace. A man who can’t stand by his words is unfit to run a country. I think the man’s misogynism has finally broken through the façade. He’s more concerned about preserving the international “image” of Pakistan than working towards eradicating the problem. These atrocities continue to happen under his watch. He’s part of the problem, not the solution.
lve
t
#36 Posted by jang on September 19, 2005 11:21:43 am
mushy seems to indicate in his interview that he is merely voicing opinions of many in islamabad. who are these many? if true, that would be worst..kinda like many believing in wtc conspiracy
he is now a big target for western journalist..every future interview my bet is that the producer will lay a well-researched trap leading his foot to his mouth. this is unfortunate.
#37 Posted by smartsyco on September 19, 2005 11:47:08 am
well this is so sick of him.......musharaf is shouting about human rights since the war of america against afghanistan.......but i`ve never seen him ever in his life he said something good for women of pakistan......he was so sick with his views about rape case....newly happened.....we just forget about mukhata maye case for a while.....and just let`s talk about the new case.......now as far as i got to know his mentality about women of pakistan he just wants women to get naked in front of world.....because he is working hard for libral islamic republic of pakistan....let`s forget all these cases which are on air now a days.....i tell you guys one more case happened in lahore walton area......where a doctor raped a 14 years girl for 5 to 6 days....what the hell was that......oh my GOD! are we eligible enough to say that we are favouring or fighting for human rights.......if he says then he is most stupid man in the world ever came.......and now if somone believes then there isn`t gonna anyone more non-sense than him
#38 Posted by mohar11 on September 19, 2005 11:58:49 am
Re: # 36
This is what ``Chris Cork`` says in http://jang.com.pk/thenews/
``And I can report to you Dear Reader that the vast majority of the men I meet and talk to entirely support the President in his remarks. Most men in Pakistan (and here I am at risk of dangerous generalisation!) would not disagree in major part with the view that some women profit by being raped,...``
So Mushy is right - that`s what pakis are saying on subject of rape .... and Mushy himself believes in it - otherwise he wouldn`t reproduce that thought in international media....
This is what ``Chris Cork`` says in http://jang.com.pk/thenews/
``And I can report to you Dear Reader that the vast majority of the men I meet and talk to entirely support the President in his remarks. Most men in Pakistan (and here I am at risk of dangerous generalisation!) would not disagree in major part with the view that some women profit by being raped,...``
So Mushy is right - that`s what pakis are saying on subject of rape .... and Mushy himself believes in it - otherwise he wouldn`t reproduce that thought in international media....
#39 Posted by shishapa on September 19, 2005 12:03:14 pm
Re: # 36
``he is now a big target for western journalist..every future interview my bet is that the producer will lay a well-researched trap leading his foot to his mouth. this is unfortunate. ``
Hopefully that will put some brakes on his globetrotting with big entourages and save
Pakistan some foreign exchanges.
Anyway, muzay lagata hai Musharraf sahab ke aam chusnay kay din paas aa rahe hai.
``he is now a big target for western journalist..every future interview my bet is that the producer will lay a well-researched trap leading his foot to his mouth. this is unfortunate. ``
Hopefully that will put some brakes on his globetrotting with big entourages and save
Pakistan some foreign exchanges.
Anyway, muzay lagata hai Musharraf sahab ke aam chusnay kay din paas aa rahe hai.
#40 Posted by Kulharee on September 19, 2005 12:12:11 pm
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#41 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 12:18:03 pm
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#43 Posted by Beej on September 19, 2005 12:50:12 pm
#44 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 12:57:53 pm
What`s with all this rape happening all too frequently in Pakistan? Can you imagine what would happen if a higher percentage of Pakistani women were not in burqa? It`s a good thing that Sania Mirza doesn`t play in Pakistan - she would be ripped to shreds. And, we should be thankful that all our female news readers on TV put on that protective cloth over their heads when reading all the news about rape and honor. Now, some people want to allow women in Lahore to run marathons! I mean what are the odds of a woman surviving rape in a whole 26 mile run? That is approximately the distance between the US and UK embassies and Chaklala - give or take a few miles. Then there is Meera - no wonder Pakistani women are getting raped right and left. If women act as Meera and dress like her, they are going to get raped. At least the ones at home are getting raped by momins, not like Meera going next door to get raped.
Can you imagine what would happen if they allowed near-naked bathing on Clifton Beach, or Hawke`s Bay, or Paradise Point? There would be so much rape that the all the foreign consulates in Karachi would run out of visas.
Enough is enough! It is time to inoke true Shariah Law on the country. Anyone who rapes will be immediately exiled to UK or US as punishment.
Can you imagine what would happen if they allowed near-naked bathing on Clifton Beach, or Hawke`s Bay, or Paradise Point? There would be so much rape that the all the foreign consulates in Karachi would run out of visas.
Enough is enough! It is time to inoke true Shariah Law on the country. Anyone who rapes will be immediately exiled to UK or US as punishment.
#45 Posted by temporal on September 19, 2005 1:09:55 pm
chowk staff
re: 44:
kindly remove this utterly insensitive and offensive post
#46 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 1:19:43 pm
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#47 Posted by jang on September 19, 2005 1:21:41 pm
#44 so with this logic, you will have rapist in uk and us, and victims in canada?
#48 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 1:21:56 pm
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#49 Posted by temporal on September 19, 2005 1:26:24 pm
some body gets raped
and this joker # 44 goes into a satire mode
and this joker # 44 goes into a satire mode
#50 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 1:27:18 pm
#47, This sattire, if Temporal the censor understands what that means, is a viewpoint of the right-wing praising the virtues of segregation of women, enforcement of draconian religious laws, and imposition of Tally Ban type rule. It also ridicules Mushy`s statement about the relationship between rapes and foreign visas.
Temporal,
Your knee-jerk reaction to this sattire shows exactly what is wrong in Pakistan. You hypocrites don`t want to tackle the real problems. Instead you find it your duty to censor freedom of expression and any sattire that your dull minds can`t grasp. Shame on you and your stupidity.
Temporal,
Your knee-jerk reaction to this sattire shows exactly what is wrong in Pakistan. You hypocrites don`t want to tackle the real problems. Instead you find it your duty to censor freedom of expression and any sattire that your dull minds can`t grasp. Shame on you and your stupidity.
#51 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 1:32:27 pm
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#52 Posted by temporal on September 19, 2005 1:32:38 pm
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#53 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 1:35:59 pm
Temporal,
You are barking up the wrong tree. The problem is inherent in Pakistani culture - at the rural and interior level. It`s in the ``I can do anything, because I am powerful`` attitude of its leaders - not very different from yours on Chowk. Fix the problem and not those who ridicule your society.
Be sensible. Emotion and anger at words are the hallmark of the backward and illiterate people. I thought you were better.
Don`t use the plight of an innocent and truly abused woman to further your own political agenda. That is evil and a shame.
You are barking up the wrong tree. The problem is inherent in Pakistani culture - at the rural and interior level. It`s in the ``I can do anything, because I am powerful`` attitude of its leaders - not very different from yours on Chowk. Fix the problem and not those who ridicule your society.
Be sensible. Emotion and anger at words are the hallmark of the backward and illiterate people. I thought you were better.
Don`t use the plight of an innocent and truly abused woman to further your own political agenda. That is evil and a shame.
#54 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 1:38:23 pm
Temporal,
I was ridiculing Paki society and not MukhtaraN Mai. But then, you are looking for an escape goat for your own inadequate and guilt-ridden self. My conscience is clear. I condemn the rape and the rapists. I do not see the political opportunity that you are accumulating. Laanat he tum aur tumhare dostoN par.
Peace.
I was ridiculing Paki society and not MukhtaraN Mai. But then, you are looking for an escape goat for your own inadequate and guilt-ridden self. My conscience is clear. I condemn the rape and the rapists. I do not see the political opportunity that you are accumulating. Laanat he tum aur tumhare dostoN par.
Peace.
#55 Posted by arjun_m on September 19, 2005 1:38:46 pm
#49 by temporal on September 19, 2005 1:26pm PT
El-Presidente says women get raped to get visas and make money...
I think we`re beyond the point of feigning outrage at his satire...
maybe the language is too complicated for you..or maybe he needs to put <satire> tags around his post...
El-Presidente says women get raped to get visas and make money...
I think we`re beyond the point of feigning outrage at his satire...
maybe the language is too complicated for you..or maybe he needs to put <satire> tags around his post...
#56 Posted by temporal on September 19, 2005 1:39:39 pm
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#57 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 1:41:17 pm
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#58 Posted by chowkstaff on September 19, 2005 1:42:37 pm
Everyone please refrain from personal attacks and keep the discussion within the Interact Guidelines.
#59 Posted by temporal on September 19, 2005 1:45:12 pm
Arjun 55:
(….sorry binoo)…for crying out loud…the occupying army is raping every citizen every single national institution…
the sania, mai, shazia, saima we hear are nothing but the tip of the ice berg…whether it is a civil or criminal litigation…from the top to bottom there is no rule or law…the fauji’s own the country and are a god unto themselves…so no amount of crying over individual cases of abuse will get us anywhere in a rush…
(wait, let me ask anyone who was crying over saima’s cold blooded murder here…do they know what ever happened to her father, mother and uncle who were allegedly involved?)
no amount of spinning can control the damage caused by mushy’s words…
…it is a terminal cancer…the me-god syndrome…the occupying army is the all powerful god…that institution ( and along with it that thinking) has to be tackled and dismantled first…the other alternative is the one I mentioned in the first post…economic empowerment…but in that scenario also…the rule of law has to be irrevocably established first..
having said i do not expect you to understand one word of this...and i do expect you to go on your usual ramage and post anti-pakistan links:)
have a good day
t
(….sorry binoo)…for crying out loud…the occupying army is raping every citizen every single national institution…
the sania, mai, shazia, saima we hear are nothing but the tip of the ice berg…whether it is a civil or criminal litigation…from the top to bottom there is no rule or law…the fauji’s own the country and are a god unto themselves…so no amount of crying over individual cases of abuse will get us anywhere in a rush…
(wait, let me ask anyone who was crying over saima’s cold blooded murder here…do they know what ever happened to her father, mother and uncle who were allegedly involved?)
no amount of spinning can control the damage caused by mushy’s words…
…it is a terminal cancer…the me-god syndrome…the occupying army is the all powerful god…that institution ( and along with it that thinking) has to be tackled and dismantled first…the other alternative is the one I mentioned in the first post…economic empowerment…but in that scenario also…the rule of law has to be irrevocably established first..
having said i do not expect you to understand one word of this...and i do expect you to go on your usual ramage and post anti-pakistan links:)
have a good day
t
#60 Posted by mohar11 on September 19, 2005 1:50:24 pm
temporal
Get a hold on yourself - Salim has not done anything wrong here....
Anycase - you should curb your tendency to play nanny in chowk. Let people say their pieces....
Get a hold on yourself - Salim has not done anything wrong here....
Anycase - you should curb your tendency to play nanny in chowk. Let people say their pieces....
#61 Posted by Beej on September 19, 2005 1:51:01 pm
Re: # 58
``...Kumbh-karan bolaa T-bhai, Kahe tav mukh rahe sukhai...``
``...Kumbh-karan bolaa T-bhai, Kahe tav mukh rahe sukhai...``
#62 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 1:52:06 pm
Temporal,
I know that English comprehension is not one of your advertised skills. You have genuinely misunderstood my attempt at ridiculing Paki society about the way it treats women and how the only solution that many see is an imposition of Tally Ban type rule.
So, just because of your handicap, I will waste my time and try to explain my sattire to you:
What`s with all this rape happening all too frequently in Pakistan?
Rapes are too frequent and too blatant in Pakistan
Can you imagine what would happen if a higher percentage of Pakistani women were not in burqa?
As if putting all the women in burqa would have saved MukhtaraN mai from the Panchayat`s decision
It`s a good thing that Sania Mirza doesn`t play in Pakistan - she would be ripped to shreds.
Self-explanatory. A successful female tennis player is out to tempt the momins and is at fault if something happens to her while playing in Pakistan. Wait that too is a sattire. Forget this one. It`s too deep for you. Just join the Mullahs in India who are condeming Sania.
And, we should be thankful that all our female news readers on TV put on that protective cloth over their heads when reading all the news about rape and honor.
See, the women put the cloth on their heads and don`t get raped. That is why it is so important to observe proper dress - as ifs that would have saved MukhtaraN Mai
Now, some people want to allow women in Lahore to run marathons! I mean what are the odds of a woman surviving rape in a whole 26 mile run? That is approximately the distance between the US and UK embassies and Chaklala - give or take a few miles.
Running marathons is going to lead to more women getting raped. Women get raped because they are seen. This is also a sattire. The reference to foreign embassies is an attack on Musharraf`s comment about some of the reasons for these rapes. Did you get that, Tempy?
Then there is Meera - no wonder Pakistani women are getting raped right and left. If women act as Meera and dress like her, they are going to get raped. At least the ones at home are getting raped by momins, not like Meera going next door to get raped.
More sattire on dressing and getting raped. From all available accounts, Meera was NOT raped in India despite her provoking wardrobe in the movie. MukhtaraN mai was not wearing what Meera wore in India, yet she was raped by momins in her own country. More sattire.
Can you imagine what would happen if they allowed near-naked bathing on Clifton Beach, or Hawke`s Bay, or Paradise Point? There would be so much rape that the all the foreign consulates in Karachi would run out of visas.
This is a vicious attack on Mushy`s stupid remarks about visas and rapes. I hope you get this one
Enough is enough! It is time to inoke true Shariah Law on the country. Anyone who rapes will be immediately exiled to UK or US as punishment.
As usual, the answer to all evils is the imposition of Sharia Law. Sending people who rape to US or UK is another ridicule of Mushy`s well-researched thesis on the causes of rape. More sattire.
Tempy, please apologize. I am on MukhtaraN mai`s side.
I know that English comprehension is not one of your advertised skills. You have genuinely misunderstood my attempt at ridiculing Paki society about the way it treats women and how the only solution that many see is an imposition of Tally Ban type rule.
So, just because of your handicap, I will waste my time and try to explain my sattire to you:
What`s with all this rape happening all too frequently in Pakistan?
Rapes are too frequent and too blatant in Pakistan
Can you imagine what would happen if a higher percentage of Pakistani women were not in burqa?
As if putting all the women in burqa would have saved MukhtaraN mai from the Panchayat`s decision
It`s a good thing that Sania Mirza doesn`t play in Pakistan - she would be ripped to shreds.
Self-explanatory. A successful female tennis player is out to tempt the momins and is at fault if something happens to her while playing in Pakistan. Wait that too is a sattire. Forget this one. It`s too deep for you. Just join the Mullahs in India who are condeming Sania.
And, we should be thankful that all our female news readers on TV put on that protective cloth over their heads when reading all the news about rape and honor.
See, the women put the cloth on their heads and don`t get raped. That is why it is so important to observe proper dress - as ifs that would have saved MukhtaraN Mai
Now, some people want to allow women in Lahore to run marathons! I mean what are the odds of a woman surviving rape in a whole 26 mile run? That is approximately the distance between the US and UK embassies and Chaklala - give or take a few miles.
Running marathons is going to lead to more women getting raped. Women get raped because they are seen. This is also a sattire. The reference to foreign embassies is an attack on Musharraf`s comment about some of the reasons for these rapes. Did you get that, Tempy?
Then there is Meera - no wonder Pakistani women are getting raped right and left. If women act as Meera and dress like her, they are going to get raped. At least the ones at home are getting raped by momins, not like Meera going next door to get raped.
More sattire on dressing and getting raped. From all available accounts, Meera was NOT raped in India despite her provoking wardrobe in the movie. MukhtaraN mai was not wearing what Meera wore in India, yet she was raped by momins in her own country. More sattire.
Can you imagine what would happen if they allowed near-naked bathing on Clifton Beach, or Hawke`s Bay, or Paradise Point? There would be so much rape that the all the foreign consulates in Karachi would run out of visas.
This is a vicious attack on Mushy`s stupid remarks about visas and rapes. I hope you get this one
Enough is enough! It is time to inoke true Shariah Law on the country. Anyone who rapes will be immediately exiled to UK or US as punishment.
As usual, the answer to all evils is the imposition of Sharia Law. Sending people who rape to US or UK is another ridicule of Mushy`s well-researched thesis on the causes of rape. More sattire.
Tempy, please apologize. I am on MukhtaraN mai`s side.
#63 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 2:04:59 pm
Folks,
This is exactly why I am so disappointed with Paki society. In addition to the education crisis, Pakis suffer from an unexplained weakness of losing common sense when facing perceived emotional insults. Their handicap in education enhances their perception of imagined insults. This in turn leads them to react totally irrationally, thus impairing their ability to learn from their mistakes. And all this can happen without religion. Once Islam is in danger, then all bets are off - we are now in 1947 zone.
Look at the facts:
1. The Panchayat in Paki Punjab sentenced an innocent woman to get raped by men of an influential family.
2. The police and authorities did nothing to halt the criminal and cruel act
3. Thanks to some swift action by the Government, the men were convicted in court
4. The Lahore Court, upon their appeal, released the rapists and those who sanctioned the raPE.
5. The President of Pakistan, the very sensitive and intelligent Gen. Musharraf, makes a stupid, insensitive, and totally ridiculous comment about the relationship of rape to foreign visas.
6. Salim Chauhan attacks Paki society and ridicules its president for the rapes and the comments about the rapes
7. Mr. Temporal asks Chowk Staff to remove the sattire because his dull mind perceives it as ``insensitive``
Are we in Alice in Wonderland or what?
Welcome to Pakistan and the plight of the Paki diaspora.
This is exactly why I am so disappointed with Paki society. In addition to the education crisis, Pakis suffer from an unexplained weakness of losing common sense when facing perceived emotional insults. Their handicap in education enhances their perception of imagined insults. This in turn leads them to react totally irrationally, thus impairing their ability to learn from their mistakes. And all this can happen without religion. Once Islam is in danger, then all bets are off - we are now in 1947 zone.
Look at the facts:
1. The Panchayat in Paki Punjab sentenced an innocent woman to get raped by men of an influential family.
2. The police and authorities did nothing to halt the criminal and cruel act
3. Thanks to some swift action by the Government, the men were convicted in court
4. The Lahore Court, upon their appeal, released the rapists and those who sanctioned the raPE.
5. The President of Pakistan, the very sensitive and intelligent Gen. Musharraf, makes a stupid, insensitive, and totally ridiculous comment about the relationship of rape to foreign visas.
6. Salim Chauhan attacks Paki society and ridicules its president for the rapes and the comments about the rapes
7. Mr. Temporal asks Chowk Staff to remove the sattire because his dull mind perceives it as ``insensitive``
Are we in Alice in Wonderland or what?
Welcome to Pakistan and the plight of the Paki diaspora.
#64 Posted by temporal on September 19, 2005 2:06:56 pm
to all the participants here except salim
…some subjects should be above ridicule and i let my better judgement take a back seat ..for this i apologize
…what happens to women in desilands should be matter of concern and shame not ridicule and satire
…some subjects should be above ridicule and i let my better judgement take a back seat ..for this i apologize
…what happens to women in desilands should be matter of concern and shame not ridicule and satire
#65 Posted by temporal on September 19, 2005 2:09:19 pm
mohar11 # 60:
if all are free to comment why should that curtesy not apply to me? how come me expressing my views becomes playing nanny?
if all are free to comment why should that curtesy not apply to me? how come me expressing my views becomes playing nanny?
#66 Posted by aquaris on September 19, 2005 2:11:44 pm
Re: # 44
he he he he he...
`` It`s a good thing that Sania Mirza doesn`t play in Pakistan - she would be ripped to shreds.``
But Carla Khan the new Squash sensation does.....!!!
he he he he he...
`` It`s a good thing that Sania Mirza doesn`t play in Pakistan - she would be ripped to shreds.``
But Carla Khan the new Squash sensation does.....!!!
#67 Posted by khamkhwa. on September 19, 2005 2:17:11 pm
....i do not understand how you people can take salim chauhan seriously...he is the lowest of the low...scum of the earth...look what he says about women on unplugged...just ignore the insect...
Quote:
#2 by premwalla on August 7, 2005 3:41pm PT
#1, Hey Asshole Cuntscout,
It was fun meeting you on the Cross Bronx Expressway.
How is your companion?
#85 I am begging on my knees(ouch...) to Salim/Sameena.
on July 18, 2005 10:27am PT
SemenAsha,
So deletion is the only way you win?
Fucking Feminazi Whore.
#84 Sadna, please stay on UP
on July 18, 2005 10:49am PT
SemenAsha, You know, hijRay, before we all saw your ugly picture, there may have been an element of mystery about you. Maybe, just maybe, there may have been a reason for your insistence on being right all the time. Maybe, just maybe, you were possibly some ``beautiful`` spoilt ``princess.`` But now, thanks to Mr. Chusni, we all know what you look like. Now, there is absolutely no excuse for you to behave the way you do. There is NOTHING that is even slightly appealing about you. So, suffer, wench, suffer. You have neither looks, nor physique, nor brains. Just a few lesbo friends. UNQUOTE.
Quote:
#2 by premwalla on August 7, 2005 3:41pm PT
#1, Hey Asshole Cuntscout,
It was fun meeting you on the Cross Bronx Expressway.
How is your companion?
#85 I am begging on my knees(ouch...) to Salim/Sameena.
on July 18, 2005 10:27am PT
SemenAsha,
So deletion is the only way you win?
Fucking Feminazi Whore.
#84 Sadna, please stay on UP
on July 18, 2005 10:49am PT
SemenAsha, You know, hijRay, before we all saw your ugly picture, there may have been an element of mystery about you. Maybe, just maybe, there may have been a reason for your insistence on being right all the time. Maybe, just maybe, you were possibly some ``beautiful`` spoilt ``princess.`` But now, thanks to Mr. Chusni, we all know what you look like. Now, there is absolutely no excuse for you to behave the way you do. There is NOTHING that is even slightly appealing about you. So, suffer, wench, suffer. You have neither looks, nor physique, nor brains. Just a few lesbo friends. UNQUOTE.
#69 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 2:29:53 pm
To anyone I may have offended with my sattire:
I apologize if I miscommunitated (or you misunderstood) my true viewpoint concerning the MukhtaraN Mai tragedy. Speaking very seriously, I abhor the criminal act of rape in general and this particualr act of sanctioned savage rape by a figure of authority, such as the Panchayat. I think that President General Pervez Musharraf`s comments relating rapes to foregin visas is at the best stupid and most probably insensitive, ludicrous, and not fit for a head of any state. Again, I express my anger at the judicial system in Pakistan, the police, and religious institutions for not protecting the rights of vulnerable citizens like MukhtaraN Mai. I also find it disgusting that there are elements in Pakistan and abroad who are finding this tragic incident as a heaven-sent opportunity to advance their predetermined agenda.
Salim
I apologize if I miscommunitated (or you misunderstood) my true viewpoint concerning the MukhtaraN Mai tragedy. Speaking very seriously, I abhor the criminal act of rape in general and this particualr act of sanctioned savage rape by a figure of authority, such as the Panchayat. I think that President General Pervez Musharraf`s comments relating rapes to foregin visas is at the best stupid and most probably insensitive, ludicrous, and not fit for a head of any state. Again, I express my anger at the judicial system in Pakistan, the police, and religious institutions for not protecting the rights of vulnerable citizens like MukhtaraN Mai. I also find it disgusting that there are elements in Pakistan and abroad who are finding this tragic incident as a heaven-sent opportunity to advance their predetermined agenda.
Salim
#70 Posted by khamkhwa. on September 19, 2005 2:46:04 pm
Re: # 69
... the person who loves to denigrate women at the drop of a hat...calls them feminazi and other choice names, because they do not agree with his point of view ... is shedding crocodile tears on mukhtaran mai...stop this `nautanki` as sadna says ... shame on you salim chauhan...
kaba kiss mun se jao ge Ghalib
sharm tum ko magar nahiN aati
... the person who loves to denigrate women at the drop of a hat...calls them feminazi and other choice names, because they do not agree with his point of view ... is shedding crocodile tears on mukhtaran mai...stop this `nautanki` as sadna says ... shame on you salim chauhan...
kaba kiss mun se jao ge Ghalib
sharm tum ko magar nahiN aati
#71 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 2:51:04 pm
#70, There you go again - stealing others` poetry.
You are just jealous that I don`t extend the same concern for khamkhwahi people like you.
You are just jealous that I don`t extend the same concern for khamkhwahi people like you.
#72 Posted by dost_mittar on September 19, 2005 2:54:38 pm
Hi Bina:
I think that Musharraf needs someone like you to coach him in proper manners and etiquettes wrt women`s issues. I think that he means well but he has this foot-in-the-mouth disease. He also probably still doesn`t understand what he said was wrong.
I don`t think that the man means bad. He is just clueless and insensitive to the current mode of thought on women`s issues.
I think that Musharraf needs someone like you to coach him in proper manners and etiquettes wrt women`s issues. I think that he means well but he has this foot-in-the-mouth disease. He also probably still doesn`t understand what he said was wrong.
I don`t think that the man means bad. He is just clueless and insensitive to the current mode of thought on women`s issues.
#73 Posted by soysauce on September 19, 2005 2:59:35 pm
For what it`s worth, Mushy`s predicate that it is alleged that accusations of rape are made for personal profit allows him some room for plausible deniability.
What he said is very characteristic of loose talk that politicians in our part of the world engage in - it`s right up there with Rajiv Gandhi`s ``when a giant tree falls..`` comment.
What he said is very characteristic of loose talk that politicians in our part of the world engage in - it`s right up there with Rajiv Gandhi`s ``when a giant tree falls..`` comment.
#74 Posted by temporal on September 19, 2005 3:03:50 pm
khamkhwa # 67:
please clarify:
1: what you quoted in #67 are by the same person who wrote #44 ( salim chauhan)?
2: are the quotes in #67 also ‘satire’?
rgds
t
please clarify:
1: what you quoted in #67 are by the same person who wrote #44 ( salim chauhan)?
2: are the quotes in #67 also ‘satire’?
rgds
t
#75 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 3:04:47 pm
DM Sahib and Soysauce,
I agree with your analyses. Others who are having a feeding frenzy at Mushy`s stupidity don`t realize that we can see right through them. Mr. Temporal is so obvious in his venom against Mushy that he would do cartwheels if Mushy ever got caught selling drugs to infants in the nursery. Doesn`t matter how demeaning the circus is to the victims, as long as Temporal can gloat over his enemy`s demise.
Laanat he aisey shairoN par. Do jumlay to joR nahiN patey or nikley heN Mirza Ghalib ki talash meN.
I agree with your analyses. Others who are having a feeding frenzy at Mushy`s stupidity don`t realize that we can see right through them. Mr. Temporal is so obvious in his venom against Mushy that he would do cartwheels if Mushy ever got caught selling drugs to infants in the nursery. Doesn`t matter how demeaning the circus is to the victims, as long as Temporal can gloat over his enemy`s demise.
Laanat he aisey shairoN par. Do jumlay to joR nahiN patey or nikley heN Mirza Ghalib ki talash meN.
#76 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 3:08:16 pm
#74, Temporal,
I have refrained from responding to profanity with further profanity, even when provoked by people like Khamkhwa, Scout, and Samina. I have lived up to this resolve for the past month or more.
Now that khamkhwa has posted one-sided quotes from an altercation that obviously involved two sides and with Chowk Staff deleting threads and messages, it is interesting that you find it appropriate to rehash old feuds. Obviously, you must include me in your Mushy list.
Please move on and don`t cut your geography class at the University of Alabama in Boulder, TN.
Thanks,
I have refrained from responding to profanity with further profanity, even when provoked by people like Khamkhwa, Scout, and Samina. I have lived up to this resolve for the past month or more.
Now that khamkhwa has posted one-sided quotes from an altercation that obviously involved two sides and with Chowk Staff deleting threads and messages, it is interesting that you find it appropriate to rehash old feuds. Obviously, you must include me in your Mushy list.
Please move on and don`t cut your geography class at the University of Alabama in Boulder, TN.
Thanks,
#77 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 3:10:33 pm
Temporal,
Kiya mirchi lag gayi?
I caught you having a feeding frenzy at Mushy`s expense. Come on, it was so obvious. When you start bolding words, I know that you are on a mission. :)
Let it go. Remember the last episode of your total exposure?
Apparently, you do. That is why you are still after me.
Kiya mirchi lag gayi?
I caught you having a feeding frenzy at Mushy`s expense. Come on, it was so obvious. When you start bolding words, I know that you are on a mission. :)
Let it go. Remember the last episode of your total exposure?
Apparently, you do. That is why you are still after me.
#78 Posted by temporal on September 19, 2005 3:16:33 pm
#76:
i asked khamkhwa two queries
are you acknoweldeging that you are the author in those quotes?
please answer this and i we will talk further
...I have refrained from responding to profanity with further profanity...
if you are the author of those quotes then it would be interesting to see how you can respond to your own profanity
i asked khamkhwa two queries
are you acknoweldeging that you are the author in those quotes?
please answer this and i we will talk further
...I have refrained from responding to profanity with further profanity...
if you are the author of those quotes then it would be interesting to see how you can respond to your own profanity
#79 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 3:18:21 pm
#65, Temporal {`` how come me expressing my views becomes playing nanny?``}
Because yours was a command to Chowk Staff to delete a certain message and you have done that yourself before. You practice censorship of words you don`t like and then you have the nerve to complain about dictators? Once a hypocrite always a hypocrite.
Because yours was a command to Chowk Staff to delete a certain message and you have done that yourself before. You practice censorship of words you don`t like and then you have the nerve to complain about dictators? Once a hypocrite always a hypocrite.
#80 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 3:19:43 pm
#78, Temporal,
Did you stop beating your wife? Please answer this first. A YES or NO will be fine.
Did you stop beating your wife? Please answer this first. A YES or NO will be fine.
#81 Posted by temporal on September 19, 2005 3:23:35 pm
#80:
a tired old question...several versions of this float around
did you beat your wife on tuesday is my fav
and it is better than the one you posed...
now please answer 78
a tired old question...several versions of this float around
did you beat your wife on tuesday is my fav
and it is better than the one you posed...
now please answer 78
#82 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 3:24:50 pm
#78 Temporal {``I have refrained from responding to profanity with further profanity... ``}
Tempy,
Why don`t you provide the full quote? as follows:
{``I have refrained from responding to profanity with further profanity, even when provoked by people like Khamkhwa, Scout, and Samina. I have lived up to this resolve for the past month or more.
If you notice, the one-sided profanity that your servant and minion has posted are dated more than a month ago. Why don`t you ask him to post the provoking profanity from your friends Scout, Samina, and Khamkhwa?
Quoting out of context and providing one-sided accounts of events is something that you and your cohorts have mastered for some time. Temporal, we can all see right through you and your hypocrisy.
Shame on YOU!
Tempy,
Why don`t you provide the full quote? as follows:
{``I have refrained from responding to profanity with further profanity, even when provoked by people like Khamkhwa, Scout, and Samina. I have lived up to this resolve for the past month or more.
If you notice, the one-sided profanity that your servant and minion has posted are dated more than a month ago. Why don`t you ask him to post the provoking profanity from your friends Scout, Samina, and Khamkhwa?
Quoting out of context and providing one-sided accounts of events is something that you and your cohorts have mastered for some time. Temporal, we can all see right through you and your hypocrisy.
Shame on YOU!
#83 Posted by friend on September 19, 2005 3:26:38 pm
Salim
Kindly do not treat this as a feeding frenzy at Mushy`s expense. Mushy represents that environment in our communities where powerful always gets away with anything - whether it is rape of a woman or rape of principles.
It is everyone`s frustration coming out. It is also coming out with a hope that perhaps this time we can get a big guy to act properly and make corrections to our ``diseased`` system.
I am not chasing mushy because he is Pakistani. Mushy`s mirror images are in India too. Do you think anything positive can now happen to Sonia Naz? Even if a court now convicts the perpetrators, tomorrow another Sonia Naz will get raped.
This is a diseased system and a prime symbol of that system, Mushy is a reasonable target.
Kindly do not treat this as a feeding frenzy at Mushy`s expense. Mushy represents that environment in our communities where powerful always gets away with anything - whether it is rape of a woman or rape of principles.
It is everyone`s frustration coming out. It is also coming out with a hope that perhaps this time we can get a big guy to act properly and make corrections to our ``diseased`` system.
I am not chasing mushy because he is Pakistani. Mushy`s mirror images are in India too. Do you think anything positive can now happen to Sonia Naz? Even if a court now convicts the perpetrators, tomorrow another Sonia Naz will get raped.
This is a diseased system and a prime symbol of that system, Mushy is a reasonable target.
#84 Posted by dullabhatti on September 19, 2005 3:28:10 pm
#72
Dost ji, why so much benefit of doubt to a military dictator? while we don`t spare the politicians at all? I doubt you would make this statement about a politician if he/she blurted those words. Is it because we subconsciously believe that a politician is answerable to us but a dictator is not?
Dost ji, why so much benefit of doubt to a military dictator? while we don`t spare the politicians at all? I doubt you would make this statement about a politician if he/she blurted those words. Is it because we subconsciously believe that a politician is answerable to us but a dictator is not?
#84 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 3:28:12 pm
Temporal,
I thought that we were going to bury the past and start afresh on Chowk. I am abiding by my resolve not to respond to profanity with more profanity. I am trying to avoid your cohorts. If I chose to participate in discussions, why do your accomplices resort to personal attacks and attempts to bait me into angry vulgarity in response?
You were never serious about a fresh new environment on Chowk were you?
I thought that we were going to bury the past and start afresh on Chowk. I am abiding by my resolve not to respond to profanity with more profanity. I am trying to avoid your cohorts. If I chose to participate in discussions, why do your accomplices resort to personal attacks and attempts to bait me into angry vulgarity in response?
You were never serious about a fresh new environment on Chowk were you?
#85 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 3:32:59 pm
Friend #83, {``This is a diseased system and a prime symbol of that system, Mushy is a reasonable target.``}
When you or many Indians or even some Pakis target Mushy, I would say that he is a reasonable target. When ostensibly impartial troublemakers, such as Mr. Temporal, target his favorite bete noir, I suspect the sincerity of the attacks. As I said earlier, Temporal would plant drugs in Mushy`s grandson`s diapers, just to get his enemy in trouble. This is what mean-spiritied demagogues and hateful individuals do.
Getting back to the merits of the rape case and Mushy`s stupidity, my numerous messages make my position clear. Heck, if there were true democracy in Pakistan, I would support a call for his resignation. In fact, that may not be a bad idea, as long as Temporal doesn`t get a chance to gloat over it. ``)
When you or many Indians or even some Pakis target Mushy, I would say that he is a reasonable target. When ostensibly impartial troublemakers, such as Mr. Temporal, target his favorite bete noir, I suspect the sincerity of the attacks. As I said earlier, Temporal would plant drugs in Mushy`s grandson`s diapers, just to get his enemy in trouble. This is what mean-spiritied demagogues and hateful individuals do.
Getting back to the merits of the rape case and Mushy`s stupidity, my numerous messages make my position clear. Heck, if there were true democracy in Pakistan, I would support a call for his resignation. In fact, that may not be a bad idea, as long as Temporal doesn`t get a chance to gloat over it. ``)
#86 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 3:38:58 pm
Folks,
Here is the diffierence. I am trying to focus on issues and viewpoints. Temporal and his cohorts want to concentrate on individual interactors and their ``perceived`` personalities. In a nutshell, maybe that is the essential difference between India and Pakistan. Actions, policies, law, and the news are important to Indians. To Pakistanis, the person and his personality and characteristics are more important. Who said it? what`s his religion? How many times does he pray? Does he drink alcohol?
Here is the diffierence. I am trying to focus on issues and viewpoints. Temporal and his cohorts want to concentrate on individual interactors and their ``perceived`` personalities. In a nutshell, maybe that is the essential difference between India and Pakistan. Actions, policies, law, and the news are important to Indians. To Pakistanis, the person and his personality and characteristics are more important. Who said it? what`s his religion? How many times does he pray? Does he drink alcohol?
#87 Posted by temporal on September 19, 2005 3:40:57 pm
#82:
refrain from he-said she-said
did you or did you not author those quotes?
then we talk
refrain from he-said she-said
did you or did you not author those quotes?
then we talk
#89 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 3:44:45 pm
#82, All I will say that I have responded to profanity from your cohorts, who were not banned in those days for the worst insults they hurled at me. Most of Chowk UP is my witness. Why is it always the same bunch? Ever think of that?
#90 Posted by tahmed32 on September 19, 2005 3:44:49 pm
mr. temporal and mr. salim still having a ... for lack of a better word .... difference of opinion? :-)
#91 Posted by temporal on September 19, 2005 3:44:52 pm
#92 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 3:47:29 pm
Temporal,
It may not be too farfetched to think that you actually look forward to women getting raped in Pakistan so that you can inject some real venom in your hate propaganda against Mushy. One could almost call you an opportunist. You know like the ambulance chaser, you just chase after cries of agony and abuse.
You are so obvious.
It may not be too farfetched to think that you actually look forward to women getting raped in Pakistan so that you can inject some real venom in your hate propaganda against Mushy. One could almost call you an opportunist. You know like the ambulance chaser, you just chase after cries of agony and abuse.
You are so obvious.
#93 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 3:47:49 pm
Temporal,
It may not be too farfetched to think that you actually look forward to women getting raped in Pakistan so that you can inject some real venom in your hate propaganda against Mushy. One could almost call you an opportunist. You know like the ambulance chaser, you just chase after cries of agony and abuse.
You are so obvious.
It may not be too farfetched to think that you actually look forward to women getting raped in Pakistan so that you can inject some real venom in your hate propaganda against Mushy. One could almost call you an opportunist. You know like the ambulance chaser, you just chase after cries of agony and abuse.
You are so obvious.
#94 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 3:49:06 pm
Mr. Temporal,
Did your cohorts provoke me with profanity or not? Just answer that first.
Did your cohorts provoke me with profanity or not? Just answer that first.
#96 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 3:50:37 pm
Mr. Tahmed Sahib,
Yes we are altercating. :)
Mr. Temporal thinks that I am insensitive with sattire. I think that he is like an amublance-chasing lawyer in that he looks forward to innocent women getting raped in Pakistan just so that he can gloat over Mushy`s misery.
Yes we are altercating. :)
Mr. Temporal thinks that I am insensitive with sattire. I think that he is like an amublance-chasing lawyer in that he looks forward to innocent women getting raped in Pakistan just so that he can gloat over Mushy`s misery.
#97 Posted by friend on September 19, 2005 3:50:51 pm
T-Saheb
Did you get up from wrong side of bed? Salim`s satire was a satire... Let us leave it at that. He says that he is changing his old ways. Let us keep watching him. There is nothing to be gained by asking for explanation about his old comments.
Regards
Did you get up from wrong side of bed? Salim`s satire was a satire... Let us leave it at that. He says that he is changing his old ways. Let us keep watching him. There is nothing to be gained by asking for explanation about his old comments.
Regards
#98 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 3:52:31 pm
#95, Tahmed Saheb,
I have said repeatedly that Mushy is totally guilty of at least stupidity and more probably insensitivity, ignorance, and speaking while brains are AWOL.
I have said repeatedly that Mushy is totally guilty of at least stupidity and more probably insensitivity, ignorance, and speaking while brains are AWOL.
#98 Posted by tahmed32 on September 19, 2005 3:52:33 pm
mr. salim: sorry to interrupt the altercation between you and mr t (but then, meddling is not against chowk guidelines).
musharaff`s misery?? you serious??
musharaff`s misery?? you serious??
#99 Posted by tahmed32 on September 19, 2005 3:55:07 pm
Mr salim: mushy seems to have done quite well for a stupid man, i think.
#100 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 19, 2005 3:56:33 pm
Tahmed Sahib,
Of course. Mushy better be miserable for the miserably stupid remark he made. I mean even without MukhtaraN Mai`s particular case of absolute cruelty imposed by a figure of authroity, a Panchayat and validated by a higher court, Lahore Court, Mushy`s remark would have been considered extremely stupid and irrational. The rape of MukhtaraN Mai just makes the remark even more insensitive, considering that she was NOT raped by a sserial rapist or an accepted criminal, but rather by ``honorable`` men of her own village, acting as executors of justice. What a shame?
Of course. Mushy better be miserable for the miserably stupid remark he made. I mean even without MukhtaraN Mai`s particular case of absolute cruelty imposed by a figure of authroity, a Panchayat and validated by a higher court, Lahore Court, Mushy`s remark would have been considered extremely stupid and irrational. The rape of MukhtaraN Mai just makes the remark even more insensitive, considering that she was NOT raped by a sserial rapist or an accepted criminal, but rather by ``honorable`` men of her own village, acting as executors of justice. What a shame?
#101 Posted by Salim_Chauhan<