Rape and Exploitation - Pakistan’s Dilemma

#149 by Romair

[This is all well and good. But I must say, I am still suprised that no one is willing to debate the key aspect of rape, against women in Pakistan. What are the victims of honor rapes, themselves saying. They all seem to be pointing to one thing - feudalism and feudal culture.]

And pray tell us who allowed feudalism and feudal culture to thrive? Is it not your Army, which has ruled Pakistan for most of its wretched existence?

Romair,
``In any case, rapes happen everywhere. Far more in the USA than in Pakistan. ``

Don`t compare the numbers, the numbers are underreported in our countries, the real numbers are much higher and it may surprise you.

Re: # 157

excuse me mr. dot, don`t push your beliefs on me, you were the one going on and on about how el presidente Bush is absolutely right in supporting the concept of `intelligent design`

i believe in EVOLUTION, now i think you should shuttup and dont` bring your unplugged garbage to the front page

thanks

Re: # 156
what about you ``intelligent design`` loving scout? apart from these four lines......

the only person who contributed anything worthwhile to this whole forum is bina herself and the little post at the end by mantolives.


all the rest of you are just playing the typical pakistani routine..... start condemning one person while the problem lies in the whole damn country

Rape does not fall under the category of Hadud laws, therefore, four witnesses are not required. The standard of witnesses (i.e. number) and forensic evidence is arbitrarily chosen but cannot be used to impose Hadd punishment for zina. Under Islamic jusripudence society is allowed to arbitrarily chose the punishment for rape, which in principle should be less sever than the Hadd - which is 100 stripes for unmarried perpetrator and stonning to death for married perpetrtor. The hadd punishment can only be imposed in case of rape when two conditions are met:

1. Four adult male witneseses happen to witness the actual act of penetration.

2. The perpetrator volunatrily confesses of rape.

The loophole in Pakistani law is that:

Suppose a woman claims that a certain man has raped her. Like any other culture in the world, unfortunately because of the nature of the crime, the bulk of the burden of proof lies with the woman. But if that woman fails to prove her case and polices also fails to prove the case with circumstantial or forensic evidence, then Pakistani judges on one hand let the perpetrator go free - nothing wrong with that - but the travesty is that they charge woman with the crime of fornication. Their rationale is that that woman by accusing another man of raping her has admitted to fornication at least. This is a travesty of justice and Islamic law explicitly forbids this practice of retaliation against woman in this form. A women cannot be charged like this. But thanks to fauji dictators they have turned jsudges into fukking rodents and cockroaches on one hand and on the other hand they don`t let any independent legislation to take palce in legislative so that these anomolies/travesties of justice can be straightened out in the law because legislative process threatens their petty fiefdoms.

bina 148:

fine

i made some suggestions in two posts one of them #35...in one of them a long term outlook on women`s `empowerment` to change the ground realities for them…

what gets white washed in all these mushy-bashing is simply this: it is futile to discuss laws when the problem lies in its implementation or lack of...it is those conditions that have to be reversed to arrest the abuse of justice and to provide a level playing field to all the citizens....

lve

t

Anil #144
``I also think that Musharaff is a sincere and professional soldier. He is neither a politician, nor a statesman``

Anil

Following is an extract from my companies corporate policy about sexual harrassment

Supervisors and other members of management who are aware of violations by others and fail to report such violations also will be subject to disciplinary action, up to and including suspension and termination of employment....

Employees will not suffer adverse consequences as a result of reporting any act of harassment, including sexual harassment. ``

Mushy has assumed supreme executive powers in his country. He calls himself ``CEO``. Not only that, his powers include judicial powers too. His comments clearly indicate who will get benefit of doubt if rapists are convicted by every court and finally come to him for appeal.

His comments are equivalent to a supreme court justice giving opinion on a matter being discussed by a lower court.

His comments are clearly in conflict of what his role demands.

A sincere and professional soldier knows his boundaries. Mushy`s repeated behavior shows that he is neither a professional soldier, nor a good CEO.

It`s ironic that a country that has been a condom for most of it`s existence is now in the news for a rape...

teshah #139,

Thanks for your support and understanding of my viewpoiint. At the risk of getting banned by Mr. Temporal and his henchmen, let me try to shed some logic into this issue:

THE CASE OF THE MUKHTAR MAI RAPE IS NOT YOUR COMMON CRIMINAL RAPE CASE INVOLVING SERIAL RAPISTS OR MASS RIOT-RELATED RAPES INVOLVING GANGS OR VIOLENT MOBS. THIS RAPE WAS SANCTIONED BY A QUASI-LEGAL AUTHORITY, THE GRASSROOTS DEMOCRACY, KNOWN AS PANCHAYAT. THE SO-CALLED ``HONORABLE`` MEN PUNISHED AN INNOCENT WOMAN AND OTHER ``VOLUNTEERS`` CARRIED OUT THE VERDICT OF THIS AUTHORITY. THE POLICE, THE ADMINISTRATORS, AND EVEN THE LAHORE COURT ARE IMPLICATED IN THIS TRAVESTY OF JUSTICE. THERE IS A MUCH BIGGER PROBLEM HERE THAN MUSHARRAF, MUKHTARAN MAI, VISAS, AND THE WASHINGTON POST. THE PROBLEM IS WITH THE THINKING OF VILLAGE LEADERS AND LOCAL POLICE, NOT TO MENTION THE LAHORE COURT.

Rape is wrong. It`s criminal. It needs to be stamped out. There is never ANY excuse for rape. Stupid people often say stupid things and Mr. Temporal is no exception. Mushy was not misquoted, he actally said something that was insensitive, stupid, and may be fatally harmful to his position as ``president.`` But then, Bush said one or two insensitive things when he went to New Orleans about him having ``too good a time in NO while a young man.`` How about the notorious ``It`s a Crusade`` comment right after 9/11. We all remember Bill Clinton`s ``I did not have ...`` comment. Maybe the embarrassment of this goof will be sufficient impetus for Mushy to get to the bottom of the Lahore Court, Multan police, and Panchayyat mystery. Dictatorship does have its advantages - maybe we won`t have to wait for years for some simple answers and quick justice.

Manto, Friend, Mohar:

All of you have have point, and more accurate in your analysis. A professional and sincere soldier will follow the code of conduct and code of ethics. I take my comment on Musharaff back, I apologize for them.

Thank you for pointing and correcting me.

Anil Kapuria

I say, give Mushaaraf a break!!.It`s very hard to do what he`s doing, balancing the various competing interests inside and outside the country.He need this `Mai` incident like a hole in his head.

To chowk staff
Your policing will make impact if rather than just stating `` This user has another valid Chowk Interactor id but is using a new id to harass other Interactors. Hence these comments will not be posted `` you also state user`s other interactor id.

Rape is an act of sexual intercourse with a woman against her will and consent.,whether her will is overcome by force or fear from thrat of force or by drugs or intoxicants; or when because of mental deficiency , she is incapaqble of exercising mental judgement, when she is below an age of consent.

Male rapists are sexual sadists, who feel pleasure upon pain of their victims; exploitative predators, who use their vicitms as objects of gratification in an impuslvie and extremely cruel way with regression to animal instinct, inadequate men, angry men who displace their anger and rage by committing this worst crime .
Rapists consider women men`s property or vulnerable possessions, a rapist`s instruement for revenge against other
men.

Rapsits always threaten and uses fists, knives,guns. Victims are beaten,wounded and mostly killed . Victim is always in a life threatening situation. Mostly they are mudered. During rape vicitms experience shock, fright and panic . Rapists urinate or defecate on their victims, ejaculate in to their faces , hair ,force anal intercourse, and insert foreign objects in to their vaginas and rectums and in to their mouths.During rape,victim struggles to stay alive.

After rape, she experiences shame, humiliation, confusion, fear, and rage with extreme depression for the rest of their life.If,they don`t have good supportive system,mostly they attempt to commit suicide or sometimes they commit suicide.
So,both ways thier lives are completely damaged for the rest of their miserable lives.

In addition to extreme physical and mental trauma with assault, they also face SKEPTICISM from those to whom they reported the worst crime.(if they had sufficient strength to do so).
or accusations of having PROVOKED OR desired the assault.
Education of police officers to deal with rape victims have helped increase reporting crime. Rape crisis centers and volunteer groups with physicians education programs have helped in treatment of victims.

A victim fares best when she receives immediate SUPPORT and is able to ventilate her fear and rage to loving family members, SYMPATHETIC physicians, and LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS.Knowing that she HAS socially ACCEPTABLE recourse , such as the ARREST and conviction of the rapist can help a rape victim..
Therapy is always,SUPPORTIVE and feelings that she is socially ACCEPTABLE ,secured, and focusing on restoring a victim`s sense of adequacy and control over her life; it also aims to relieve the feelings of HELPLESSNESS, DEPENDENCE, and obsession with the assault that frequently follow rape. Group threapy is also effective form of treatment .

Now,seeing this in the light of what some of the PAKIS say about rape along with their head of state,it looks like PAKI nation is loosing it. Insensitivity , cruel appraoch, mercilessness and heartless approach towards RAPE which shows in their statements and attitudes ,calling it EMOTIONAL , RATHER than RATIONAL. Blaming victims for GAINING FAVOURS to migrate abroad.

Emotional and rational are same things.Rational and emotional are both emotions controlled by brain.
The way these BRAINLESS PAKI OFFICIALS are viewing rapes looks like they don`t have rational and emotional approach.

When a woman is a vicitm of rape,she reacts with sadness,well this is absolutely rational to express her EMOTIONS AND TO DEAL WITH THEM.

Again,this is totally,RATIONAL to support the victims in every way possible to make her feel secured,NOT NEGLECTED.By giving her EXTREME IMPORTANCE,BY MAKING HER LIVE AGAIN B/C SHE IS DEAD AND IT IS OUR JOB TO DO EVERYTHING TO MAKE HER LIVING BEING.

Thanks

Rape is an act of sexual intercourse with a woman against her will and consent.,whether her will is overcome by force or fear from thrat of force or by drugs or intoxicants; or when because of mental deficiency , she is incapaqble of exercising mental judgement, when she is below an age of consent.

Male rapists are sexual sadists, who feel pleasure upon pain of their victims; exploitative predators, who use their vicitms as objects of gratification in an impuslvie and extremely cruel way with regression to animal instinct, inadequate men, angry men who displace their anger and rage by committing this worst crime .
Rapists consider women men`s property or vulnerable possessions, a rapist`s instruement for revenge against other
men.

Rapsits always threaten and uses fists, knives,guns. Victims are beaten,wounded and mostly killed . Victim is always in a life threatening situation. Mostly they are mudered. During rape vicitms experience shock, fright and panic . Rapists urinate or defecate on their victims, ejaculate in to their faces , hair ,force anal intercourse, and insert foreign objects in to their vaginas and rectums and in to their mouths.During rape,victim struggles to stay alive.

After rape, she experiences shame, humiliation, confusion, fear, and rage with extreme depression for the rest of their life.If,they don`t have good supportive system,mostly they attempt to commit suicide or sometimes they commit suicide.
So,both ways thier lives are completely damaged for the rest of their miserable lives.

In addition to extreme physical and mental trauma with assault, they also face SKEPTICISM from those to whom they reported the worst crime.(if they had sufficient strength to do so).
or accusations of having PROVOKED OR desired the assault.
Education of police officers to deal with rape victims have helped increase reporting crime. Rape crisis centers and volunteer groups with physicians education programs have helped in treatment of victims.

A victim fares best when she receives immediate SUPPORT and is able to ventilate her fear and rage to loving family members, SYMPATHETIC physicians, and LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS.Knowing that she HAS socially ACCEPTABLE recourse , such as the ARREST and conviction of the rapist can help a rape victim..
Therapy is always,SUPPORTIVE and feelings that she is socially ACCEPTABLE ,secured, and focusing on restoring a victim`s sense of adequacy and control over her life; it also aims to relieve the feelings of HELPLESSNESS, DEPENDENCE, and obsession with the assault that frequently follow rape. Group threapy is also effective form of treatment .

Now,seeing this in the light of what some of the PAKIS say about rape along with their head of state,it looks like PAKI nation is loosing it. Insensitivity , cruel appraoch, mercilessness and heartless approach towards RAPE which shows in their statements and attitudes ,calling it EMOTIONAL , RATHER than RATIONAL. Blaming victims for GAINING FAVOURS to migrate abroad.

Emotional and rational are same things.Rational and emotional are both emotions controlled by brain.
The way these BRAINLESS PAKI OFFICIALS are viewing rapes looks like they don`t have rational and emotional approach.

When a woman is a vicitm of rape,she reacts with sadness,well this is absolutely rational to express her EMOTIONS AND TO DEAL WITH THEM.

Again,this is totally,RATIONAL to support the victims in every way possible to make her feel secured,NOT NEGLECTED.By giving her EXTREME IMPORTANCE,BY MAKING HER LIVE AGAIN B/C SHE IS DEAD AND IT IS OUR JOB TO DO EVERYTHING TO MAKE HER LIVING BEING.

Thanks

If they kill the murderer,Why NOT rapists??
Rapists do double crime.They murder innocent women`s body and soul.
So,they should be hanged infront of everyone TWICE so,that others should learn this lesson.

And as for as victims are,they should be given as much support as possible,by doing everythin possible for them to make them feel normal and healthy and socially acceptable.by helping them socially,mentally and financially.

They should be encouraged to report,so that others will be protected.

These people now argue about rapes.How come they can argue or favour this worst crime?? There are somethings in life,which are not meant to be argued.Everyone should be agreed upon favouring HANGING rapists.

Suppose,if samething happens to these people,how will they react???
I am sure they wish to kill the rapists with out even thinking twice.
And they wish the same for rapists.How on earth,can comment on such crime???
Honestly,most of these interactors and even some females ,are trying to put me down by arguing with me and by twisting my point of view.Just b/c of their insensitive nature they can not feel the pain for those miserable women.
If,Canada or America or anyone support them at this time,they are doing the best.

When a person is dying,everyone tries to save the life,they don`t start arguing or start giving comments on dying person.Any kind of support is appreciated to save the life.Same is with rape victim,They should be helped in any form,any way,any type....It doesn`t matter,all it matters is to support them and make them feel good about themselves.Not to isolate them.To discuss more about it.To save them from committing suicides.
if a murderer is punished by hanged to death or life time imprisonment .Then why not execute the rapists? b/c rapists committ the worst crimes than murder.......