Unfit For Command

Miriam #58,
Of course Temporal did not come right out and say that rape is a cornerstone of the military dictatorship`s policy. My statement was a sarcastic observation of Temporal`s eagerness to capitalize on almost anything that goes wrong in Pakistan and use it to present a case for restoration of ``democracy.`` If you have been following the unfortunately too many recent cases of highly-publicized rapes, Mr. Temporal is usually at the forefront of demonstrating, pontificating, and inciting a hate campaign against Mushy. This gives the appearance that he may actually look forward to more rapes just so that he can put the final nails in Mushy`s coffin.

Now, I agree with you that we all want democracy everywhere, including Pakistan. Unfortunatley, ``democracy`` in Pakistan would mean either a return to the oligarchy of the past or a new theorcracy a la Tally Ban. I hope you have the honesty to admit that there were more abuses of power, more nepotism, more oppression, less liberty, and more suppression of free speech under Benazir and Nawaz Sharif and ZAB than under Musharraf nowadays. Unless, we can see a clear rule of law under civilian rule, most practical people prefer this benign dictatorship.

Thanks for your appreciation of my views regarding gender segregation.

I apprecaite and honor your viewpoint.

Salim:
#27

I don`t agree with Temporal, though, that rape is a cornerstone of the military dictatorship`s domestic policy.

I’m curious. Where exactly did you pick that up from temporal? One only has to take a cursory glance at his interacts to know where he stands on women’s issues. He certainly has no love loss with the army (neither do many of us) but I have never known him to imply what you suggest. Words are a serious matter for some of us. I would appreciate it if you would refrain from attributing to others (even if you dislike them) ideas or phrases without a reference/link to the exact post. Thanks.

And regarding the “insidious political agenda” of “people such as Temporal”; I guess that would be the one where they want an end to dictatorship and open the road for democracy in pakistan. You disagree with this salim?

On a final note, I do very much agree with this statement of yours:

….I think that the best way to help achieve women`s rights is to dismantle gender segregation as much as possible. Once women have equal participation in the day-to-day life of Pakistan,… (#41)

best,
miriam

kulharee,

your profile says something about you being from a religious minority. i wouldn`t worry too much about what some people say or defend being pakistani. believe me i`ve come across ``you`re an indian`` or ``self-hating pakistani`` remarks myself when i say things that are perceived as anti-national. . . and regardless of whether you are pakistani or not, these chachas and babas like to put everyone in one neat box, abdul-hates or pandit-hates, while ignoring what`s in their own hearts and minds.

and the beat goes on. . . .

dullbhatti #54 I protest!! Now you are letting out our national secrets (i.e. by revealing that 9/10th of our army boys are dumb)!! :-)

On the nationality of Mr. Kulharee, you can dress up a bakra in a suit but he will still give himself away by saying ``ba-a-a-a`` rather than ``good morning``. I have collected a few of the ``ba-a-a-a`` from kulharee for your convenience:

post number #30 ``Perhaps you should check out the male-female ratio of Pakistan as well..and here’s a news for you: it is pretty much the same as it is in India – that means that female infanticide is as prevalent in Pakistan as much as it is in India.``

If he was Pakistani, he would realize that while we have other issues (like the rape cases), large scale female infanticide is not one of them.

post #44 ``yes I am a Pakistani (not very proud of it, but I have no choice, I was born with it`` This statement reflects the common myth that Pandit-Hates try to spread that Pakistanis are ashamed of their nationality or feel bad about being Pakistanis.

also same post ``if you are a non-Muslim (constitutionally that is), you can be persecuted for saying Asalam-o-Lakum to someone. Your Passport is the way for you to find out what religion you belong to. I feel so bad for Pakistanis that don’t have passports. They don’t know what religion they belong to. It’s really very sad``

This again betrays ignorance of Pakistan - most Pakistanis are very pleased (as most people are) if someone greets them in their own language. This again is a myth of the Indian ``experts`` on Pakistan (who have never stepped inside that country), i.e. the Pandit-Hates.

I could go on. But if these indications of ``ba-a-a-a`` from a Pandit-Hate claiming to be a pakistani dont convince you, nothing will. I dont blame you though - if I was an Indian with self-respect (as you are), I too would find it difficult to acknowledge anything in common with the kind of Pandit-Hate freaks that show up on chowk. Pakistanis quarrel among themselves, hold all sorts of opinions from extreme right to extreme left - but they dont have this one-track mind of of obsession with insulting other people`s religions or nationalities that is the trademark of the Pandit-Hates who come to chowk.

Re: # 55

My mentally challenged friend tahmed32, Do I have to win a Nobel Prize to convince you that I am a Pakistani (just to piss you off, I am not going to win one). As you yourself mentioned that I am not smart enough, so I guess I can’t do either (convince you or win a Nobel Prize). But I have a Pakistani Passport, it says both my citizenship and religion (alhamdullilah, it says I am a Muslim Pakistani – did cost me a whopping 200 dollars – it’s a bit too much if you ask me. For that much I wana be a Wahabi).

tahmed sahib...ki kahaN main hun...your solution to everything is...``re-read my earlier posts``. why one can be a Pakistani only due to certain reasons as you list? do you believe one has to satisfy certain conditions to be a Pakistani?..I was laughing when I read you calling Kulharee not smart enough to be one....when did it become a condition being smart to be any thing, forget being Pakistani? you know if that was a condition 9/10th of your army will automatically become Indian.:-)

dullbhatti #43 i am sorry but i have to disagree on kulharee - please see the post i wrote earlier and the reasons i indicated.

my use of the term pandit-hate is accurate and obviously does not apply to all indians. only those who are incapable of writing anything other berating pakistanis or muslims while thumping their own chest trying to act (as i said) that india is USA-east, ignoring the cesspool that is the plight of women in india (as i mentioned). surely this should be obvious enough to you, if you re-read my earlier posts.


in any case, despite our disagrement on this point, let me use this opportunity to express my appreciation for your interesting posts on chowk written in a fine, gentlemanlike manner.

mr. kulharee #44 You are not smart enough to pass as a pakistani. anyone who tries to be what he is not on chowk is by definition to stupid to get away with it. trust me. dullabhatti likes to think you are a pakistani, but he did that by ignoring the reasons i provided. so have a nice day. maybe if you are really good in this life, in your next incarnation you will get your wish and be born a pakistani.

Salim: while i thank you for the nice remarks, they are indeed unmerited. and in this i agree for once with my loyal campfollower, mr. mohar, in whom they obviously caused great agony causing him to erupt in his usual elegant style that we have all come to know and admire.

as for who is a nice guy - i think chowk posts are not enough evidence of that. as far as i am concerned, all chowkies are nice guys in real life: its just that some are so damned stupid that one does not wish to waste precious chowk time on them, except maybe to have a bit of fun. :-)

Mohar #47 {``we know you have had rough times with pakis in here and we sympathize with that - but you don`t have to sing paeans to this jacka$$.... :))) ``}

Mohar,
It is a concentration camp syndrome. I heard that prison guards who tortured the inmates were considered evil. Those that just hit them now and then were considered kind, and those who gave them food, water, and compassion were thought to be angels of mercy. :)

It`s all relative. He is much nicer than the really bad ones - Faisaluno, Atif, Temporal, and so on.

Re: # 49

True...It`s all relative...

If u know how to read urdu, read this

http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/miscellaneous/story/2005/09/050921_manzur_anger.shtml

Mushy pees in his pants in front of white or black masters/mistress from USA/UK, but in front of his own brown suboordinates, he just refuses to listen.

Kulharee Sahib #44, {``and yes I am a Pakistani (not very proud of it, but I have no choice, I was born with it ...``}

Kulharee Bhai (Dear Axeman! :) )

If you say you are Pakistani, I believe you. After all, there was much speculation about my credentials and even today people have their doubts about my origins, my ethnicity, my religion, my citizenship, my domicile, and even my martial status. When certain people can`t debate or discuss serious matters successfully, they resort to personal insults, abuse of spouses and other family members, questions regarding legality of one`s birth, and so on. You know you have succeeded with these imbeciles once you have degraded them into such a state. They have conceded victory to your point of view by descending into the domain of the illiterate and the backward. You must agree that rednecks, ganNwars, fools, idiots, and the uneducated can only discuss things at the most basic level. ``Where`s he from?`` ``What`s his relijjun?`` ``Is he one of `em?`` ``Did you see his hooked nose?`` ``Where does he live?`` ``Did his parents ever get married?`` and so on.

Be who you are and stick to issues, positions, facts, and viewpoints. Let the professional anthropologists and sociologists of Chowk worry about basic human identifications. What I am really saying is that we should ignore such personally inquisitive people.

Tahmed Sahib #42, {``Thus, I remain fully in favor of good relations with India (despite the freaks we see on chowk) since that is the only sensible way to live with one`s neighbors``}

Well said, Sir. Let`s hope that one day, Inshallah, we have true friendship and real peace with our important neighbor and relative to the east. Ameen.

On the issue of intra-Pak hatreds on Chowk, I have seriously reached the conclusion that, in general, Indians tend to be more tolerant and laissez-faire than many people from Pakistan, especially when it comes to tolerance for dissent among their own. Through all the cruel and abusive treatment I have received at the hands of some Pakis on Chowk, only you and a handful of other fellow Pakistanis have stood up for fairness. Almost all demonstration of kindness, support for fairness, and concern for my life (on Chowk :) ) has been limited to Indians - even the most anti-Paki ones.

And that is why I really appreciate your genuine and sincere record of objectivity. You are a tribute to Punjab, to Pakistan, to Islam, and to humanity. One should be able to point at you as a unique exception to the general environment of hatred and prejudice.

Thanks,

Re: # 45
//...are a tribute to Punjab, to Pakistan, to Islam, and to humanity....//

ClosetMullah32 is a ``tribute`` to humanity??....Get a grip on yourself....we know you have had rough times with pakis in here and we sympathize with that - but you don`t have to sing paeans to this jacka$$.... :)))

Tahmed bhai, I understand your frustration with Ajeya and Arjun Makhanwala .....but it is disappointing to see that you have started reacting in the same way they do...they are bigots and narrow minded but what is your excuse to bring India and generalize all Indians just like they do to Paks?
Further, just because kulharee does not agree with you, you start accusing him of being Indian? My defense of kulharee would be akin to Paks supporitng or giving halla-sheri to ..say Farzana V..... Is that uncommon? I am only pointing out that he is Pakistani...trust me on that...now if due to your disagreement with him you still call him Indian or Pandit-hate that proves that any pakistani that does not agree with you is a traitor. Also by using the terms like Pandit-Hate, you are mirroring the terms used by people whom you accuse of being bigots.