Yasser Latif Hamdani December 7, 2005
#12 Posted by MantoLives on December 7, 2005 8:46:15 pm
Jang`s comments do sum up the confusion that people have about these terms.
#11 Posted by MantoLives on December 7, 2005 8:02:53 pm
Jang,
Shariat and Fiqh does not necessarily mean state law.
Fiqh is simply the understanding of the Islamic doctrine.
A new fiqh might make it easier
1- For Muslims to accept secular state law 2- For Muslims to accept change in their family law- a major in problem let me remind you in Secular India.
As for rigid... I don`t think so. Islam became rigid when it decided that the works of the 5 Imams in the 9th century was the be all end all.
Shariat and Fiqh does not necessarily mean state law.
Fiqh is simply the understanding of the Islamic doctrine.
A new fiqh might make it easier
1- For Muslims to accept secular state law 2- For Muslims to accept change in their family law- a major in problem let me remind you in Secular India.
As for rigid... I don`t think so. Islam became rigid when it decided that the works of the 5 Imams in the 9th century was the be all end all.
#10 Posted by _digit on December 7, 2005 2:49:49 pm
jang,
Laws are meant to be rigid...the legal system, though, must be fluid...big difference...
Kulharee,
It`s in fact a meta-ideology that has historically, and no doubt in the future, defined a class of ideologies...trick is to find an implementation that is effective today...
#9 Posted by jang on December 7, 2005 2:04:41 pm
why replace something rigid with something else rigid? why not just allow methods like constitution etc to rule? that may be more pragmatic and acceptable than forcing a new fiq, especailly one coming from a ahmedi-> ismaili convert ;-)
muslims are more likely to accept a secular law than messing with faith-based law.
muslims are more likely to accept a secular law than messing with faith-based law.
#8 Posted by avkrishna on December 7, 2005 7:31:26 am
A good article in the right direction with the right intention.
I believe the reform on Islamic society has to start form within. Only then it would be more credible and sustainable. And it`s high time that it`s kicked off. The alternative is going to be terrible for both Muslims and Non Muslims...
````In my opinion, a body with Muslims extracted from all parts of the world and cultures should be formed. ````
A non starter IMO. Creating such a body would be almost impossible and even if it is formed, it will be dominated by Wahhabists who are more likely to foot the bill.
It would be great if this reform starts at a more local level and the success is emulated by other Muslim societies,
Thanks,
Avkrishna
I believe the reform on Islamic society has to start form within. Only then it would be more credible and sustainable. And it`s high time that it`s kicked off. The alternative is going to be terrible for both Muslims and Non Muslims...
````In my opinion, a body with Muslims extracted from all parts of the world and cultures should be formed. ````
A non starter IMO. Creating such a body would be almost impossible and even if it is formed, it will be dominated by Wahhabists who are more likely to foot the bill.
It would be great if this reform starts at a more local level and the success is emulated by other Muslim societies,
Thanks,
Avkrishna
#7 Posted by MantoLives on December 7, 2005 7:30:45 am
Kulharee...
Fiqh (Understanding) is interpretation of shariat as per the requirements of the time.
The Holy Prophet (PBUH) gave the method of Ijtehad to create new fiqhs for every new age...
Under the influence of Asharite thought (which sought to preserve Islam against the Mutazillites) Muslims abandoned the Holy Prophet`s method.
Fiqh (Understanding) is interpretation of shariat as per the requirements of the time.
The Holy Prophet (PBUH) gave the method of Ijtehad to create new fiqhs for every new age...
Under the influence of Asharite thought (which sought to preserve Islam against the Mutazillites) Muslims abandoned the Holy Prophet`s method.
#6 Posted by MantoLives on December 7, 2005 7:27:49 am
PS: I wrote this article before I converted to Ismailism... in September.
#5 Posted by Kulharee on December 7, 2005 7:25:58 am
Manto..the difference between Muslims and good people is that that the good people don’t bang their snare drums about Louis Pastore being Christian or Maimonides being a Jew. They move on and accept the past advances as contributions of humans to humanity. Only fuking muslims will keep babbling about Abu Hanifa and Abu Whiskey and whatnot who no one no longer gives a crap about. By suggesting that Islam needs a new Fiqh, you are subliminally suggesting that it is a failed ideology. Which by the way may not be far from the truth.
#4 Posted by MantoLives on December 7, 2005 7:24:19 am
Kaalchakra, Zakk,
Thanks for your comments.
As far as Pervez is concerned... his movement`s headquarters are based in Gulberg (25 B Gulberg on Ch. Zahoor Elahi Road)... to my knowledge he is not banned in any province... given his close links to the Pakistan movement... Prepared to be disappointed however... the ``Tolu-e-Islam`` comes across as closed to ideas as any Maududian movement today.
http://www.tolueislam.com/
Thanks for your comments.
As far as Pervez is concerned... his movement`s headquarters are based in Gulberg (25 B Gulberg on Ch. Zahoor Elahi Road)... to my knowledge he is not banned in any province... given his close links to the Pakistan movement... Prepared to be disappointed however... the ``Tolu-e-Islam`` comes across as closed to ideas as any Maududian movement today.
http://www.tolueislam.com/
#3 Posted by KaalChakra on December 7, 2005 4:04:36 am
Zakk
Hopefully, we will have an opportunity to discuss some of the issues involved, but not all criticism is because of ``islamophobia`` - a word that means and explains very little.
The fact of the matter is that Islam has very negative consequences for a great many people on earth. They have a right to be very cautious and careful about the claims made by its proponents (who, of course, must be its beneficiaries, and thus behave rationally in supporting it).
Hopefully, we will have an opportunity to discuss some of the issues involved, but not all criticism is because of ``islamophobia`` - a word that means and explains very little.
The fact of the matter is that Islam has very negative consequences for a great many people on earth. They have a right to be very cautious and careful about the claims made by its proponents (who, of course, must be its beneficiaries, and thus behave rationally in supporting it).
#2 Posted by KaalChakra on December 7, 2005 3:49:15 am
Manto
Haven`t read the article (yet), but must commend you in this effort.
Haven`t read the article (yet), but must commend you in this effort.
#1 Posted by Zakkk on December 7, 2005 3:19:48 am
Mantolives: I velieve Parwezs work is banned in some provinces in Pakistan? I know very little about the mans work do you have any references to his work I could look around for?
The comment about period after marriage in which a birth is considered legitimate is interesting..I wonder what is the record for the longest birth.
I would like to point out some of the legislation that some of the religo political groups support is quite progressive..the restriction on triple talaq..the outlawing of vani and the guarantee of inheritance rights to women, opposition to dowry, morrocos recent reforms are also quite progressive and have been interpreted in an Islamic context..the outlawing of polygamy using Quranic verse ..the list goes on..there are many progressive reform movements going on in the Muslim world..the Islamophobes ignore them because it doesn`t fit in with their hate filled views..and the conservative Mullahs usually can outspend them because of state power or petro dollars.
The comment about period after marriage in which a birth is considered legitimate is interesting..I wonder what is the record for the longest birth.
I would like to point out some of the legislation that some of the religo political groups support is quite progressive..the restriction on triple talaq..the outlawing of vani and the guarantee of inheritance rights to women, opposition to dowry, morrocos recent reforms are also quite progressive and have been interpreted in an Islamic context..the outlawing of polygamy using Quranic verse ..the list goes on..there are many progressive reform movements going on in the Muslim world..the Islamophobes ignore them because it doesn`t fit in with their hate filled views..and the conservative Mullahs usually can outspend them because of state power or petro dollars.
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