History Does Repeat Itself in Pakistan

Holy Moses:

I have read only few sentences of -your post and it has spoiled my entire day. Don`t you have anything better other than these melancholic thoughts and words in your bag? Life can`t be that bad in Pakistan?

He literally melted in the face of Kargil War (which PTV trumpeted as a skirmish). He handled it in the stupidest and most foolish way possible. His rushing to Clinton darbar and his abject acceptance of withdrawal of Army/Mujahadeen from Kargil heights made the masses feel ashamed of their existence. Definitely, we would have had to withdraw from Kargil, but like this? Shame.

It is easy to see why the Paki Army has mamaged to successfully enslave Pakistan for most of its wretched existence. The educated elite believes that it was Nawaz Sharif who actually spoiled the victory party for Pakistan at Kargil by rushing to Washington DC and withdrawing troops from the icy heights without so much as a squeak from the ``brave`` Paki Army. When Mushy could overthrow NS for the small crime of not allowing the plane in which he was traveling to land, could he not have done that when Paki pride was on line at Kargil?

On another board, Yasser and his wife are blaming Gandhi for even the cold that they both catch. This is symptomatic of the Paki psyche. Find a scapegoat for evey ill that plagues their country. But when will they ever understand that their miseries will not end till they learn to take up responsibility for the mess their country finds itself in?

Responding to harish_hyd: Comment on NS melted away is how he handled the situation. He may not be aware of it when it was undertaken but once it was dawned upon him, he should have handled it in a statesman spirit.

Responding to Shankar: Thanks for the comments but lets not say anything about Prophet (be it our or yours). Although you have put it in a very sympathatic manner, I would like this particular comment to be removed.

Responding to harish_hyd: Comment on NS melted away is how he handled the situation. He may not be aware of it when it was undertaken but once it was dawned upon him, he should have handled it in a statesman spirit.

Responding to Shankar: Thanks for the comments but lets not say anything about Prophet (be it our or yours). Although you have put it in a very sympathatic manner, I would like this particular comment to be removed.

It is a good article, although Indians don`t have any business poking their noses in Pakistani affairs unless they are directly impacted by those affairs.

Speaking of Indo-Pak love affairs, there has been another pattern. One repeated, almost shot by shot, in 1965, 1971, and in the Kargil affair.

In each case, until the very last moments, the Pakistani nation was led to believe, and Pakistan`s public deliberately chose to believe, that Pakistani army was winning the war handsomely. Then when the crash inevitably came, everybody was greatly astonished and everybody felt betrayed by everybody else.

#11 by AsadHamza

[Comment on NS melted away is how he handled the situation. He may not be aware of it when it was undertaken but once it was dawned upon him, he should have handled it in a statesman spirit.]

Nawaz Sharif`s panic response was a natural human reaction to the Paki Army`s misadventure. How would you feel when you are not kept in the loop and when the whole plan collapses, you are asked to take the blame as if its your doing? The Paki Army did everything surreptitiously, but when the plan didn`t work out, put NS in the spotlight to take the blame and buy a letoff for the Army amid the full glare of the world media and a furious Paki public.

First of all let me remind all of my Indian ``Freinds`` here that Kargil was taken from Pakistan the same way. i.e Indian Army climbed up the post during winter and survived until summer. When Pakistani soldiers try to go back up in Winter they were stopped by Indian Army. So Pakistan did not do any thing different, Kargil was ours before and Pakistani Army tried to take it back. My personal opinion Mian Sharif if not bow to the pressure Kargil was ours to loose. If my Indian friends could remember they had nothing but losses in all the conflict. If NS just would have Shutt Up and instead of running to DC should hav run to Bieging we would have been OK.
India has a nag of being cunniving and stabbing you in your back and we have many expamples to proove that. Siachin they want to fight us for a glacier and won`t even go back without marking the current positions. This tells you the lack of honesty these people have for God`s sake its a glacier. Go home and sleep its no one`s to claim. I just believe that no matter what Indians and especially Hindus will never be friends of ours we can be decent neighbours but they will never be honest with our people.

AsadHamza #11

`` Responding to harish_hyd: Comment on NS melted away is how he handled the situation. He may not be aware of it when it was undertaken but once it was dawned upon him, he should have handled it in a statesman spirit. ``

The poor chap had no control over what goes in his own government. You expect him to be a statesman.

ekmalang #15

`` First of all let me remind all of my Indian ``Freinds`` here that Kargil was taken from Pakistan the same way. i.e Indian Army climbed up the post during winter and survived until summer. When Pakistani soldiers try to go back up in Winter they were stopped by Indian Army. So Pakistan did not do any thing different, Kargil was ours before and Pakistani Army tried to take it back. My personal opinion Mian Sharif if not bow to the pressure Kargil was ours to loose. If my Indian friends could remember they had nothing but losses in all the conflict. If NS just would have Shutt Up and instead of running to DC should hav run to Bieging we would have been OK.``

What makes you Pakistani soldiers on those hilltops would survive laser and satellite guided bombs from Indian air force bombers ? Clinton could have supplied India with those bombs directly or indirectly through Israel or Britain.

`` India has a nag of being cunniving and stabbing you in your back and we have many expamples to proove that. Siachin they want to fight us for a glacier and won`t even go back without marking the current positions. This tells you the lack of honesty these people have for God`s sake its a glacier. Go home and sleep its no one`s to claim. I just believe that no matter what Indians and especially Hindus will never be friends of ours we can be decent neighbours but they will never be honest with our people.``

Pakistani elite has a record of deception that will never be matched by the Indian elite. You can look to 1971, Kargil, Taliban, AQ Khan smuggling etc.

#17 by bbabu
``What makes you Pakistani soldiers on those hilltops would survive laser and satellite guided bombs from Indian air force bombers ? Clinton could have supplied India with those bombs directly or indirectly through Israel or Britain``

I guess we never got a chance to see if India would have gotten Laser Guided Missilles and if yes how the Jawans would have survived. Thats my whole point we should have let this be won on the ground, I guess Mian Sharif thought the same why as you did lets save few jawans from Laser Guided bombs......

``Pakistani elite has a record of deception that will never be matched by the Indian elite. You can look to 1971, Kargil, Taliban, AQ Khan smuggling etc.``

Let me just say that Indian Elite is as curropt as Pakistani elite if not India would not be one of the most poor countries in the world. With all the resources available India should be an economic power. With Pakistan we had Military rule for the most of the part so it was never chosen governemnts. So we didn`t have choice which culprit on the other hand Indians chose their thieves personally.

``India has a nag...etc..``

Arre mere bhai, tau hamara time kyon khali peeli me barbaad karate ho?

(Be careful. There is very dangerous Hindu stuff hidden in that line) :)

ekmalang #18

````What makes you Pakistani soldiers on those hilltops would survive laser and satellite guided bombs from Indian air force bombers ? Clinton could have supplied India with those bombs directly or indirectly through Israel or Britain````

`` I guess we never got a chance to see if India would have gotten Laser Guided Missilles and if yes how the Jawans would have survived. Thats my whole point we should have let this be won on the ground, I guess Mian Sharif thought the same why as you did lets save few jawans from Laser Guided bombs......``

It is hard to say no to Uncle Sam when you have less than a billion dollars in reserves and you need IMF help.

Why stop at a narrow incursion like Kargil ? Maybe you should send the entire Pakistani army to conquer Kashmir ?

What stopped Mushy and his boys from obeying Nawaz`s dash to Washington and subsequent order to withdraw. They did not have any problems disobeying his orders three months later.


````Pakistani elite has a record of deception that will never be matched by the Indian elite. You can look to 1971, Kargil, Taliban, AQ Khan smuggling etc.````

`` Let me just say that Indian Elite is as curropt as Pakistani elite if not India would not be one of the most poor countries in the world. With all the resources available India should be an economic power. With Pakistan we had Military rule for the most of the part so it was never chosen governemnts. So we didn`t have choice which culprit on the other hand Indians chose their thieves personally.``

India has less per captia resources than Pakistan - land, water, energy etc. India has received less foreign assistance on a per captia basis than Pakistan. You do not see too many people in the Indian public accusing the Indian leaders of being a lackey of foreign interests. It is hard to say that for the Pakistani leaders. India has more diversity which makes governance a little bit more difficult. Barring Nehru`s disatrous affair with state socialism Indian leaders have governed much better than Pakistani leaders.

ekmalang #18

````Pakistani elite has a record of deception that will never be matched by the Indian elite. You can look to 1971, Kargil, Taliban, AQ Khan smuggling etc.````

`` Let me just say that Indian Elite is as curropt as Pakistani elite if not India would not be one of the most poor countries in the world. With all the resources available India should be an economic power. With Pakistan we had Military rule for the most of the part so it was never chosen governemnts. So we didn`t have choice which culprit on the other hand Indians chose their thieves personally.``

Why change the topic to corruption ?

Your original rant was
`` India has a nag of being cunniving and stabbing you in your back and we have many expamples to proove that. Siachin they want to fight us for a glacier and won`t even go back without marking the current positions. This tells you the lack of honesty these people have for God`s sake its a glacier. Go home and sleep its no one`s to claim. I just believe that no matter what Indians and especially Hindus will never be friends of ours we can be decent neighbours but they will never be honest with our people.``

Please tell us why Indian leaders are any more cunning than Pakistani leaders

#21 by bbabu

``Please tell us why Indian leaders are any more cunning than Pakistani leaders``
The reason Indian Leaders are more cunning than Pakistani leaders is because India never accepted Pakistan..... It is Nehru`s words that if they (Muslims) are seperate than they won`t even survive 2 weeks.....Why would you think he made this statement ... it is because he knew that Congress and British governemt will split the subcontinent and resources up the way Pakistan could not survive .... On the other hand Jinnah and the Muslims just wanted to live independently ..... As a result of the decisions made in 47 we saw Bangladesh split up .... Kashmiris have been asking the same from India but it is Ok for India to Interfere in 1971 in what was East Pakistan ... but not for Pakistan to interfere in Kashmir.....The list goes on and On ... the only reasons Indians are crying is because Pakistan was succeeding in Kashmir with Militants and people ...... If you look at the history of both countries you will see that India never accepted Pakistan as an Independent country and your politicians did every thing in their power to break this country up... Until ........... that brings me to AQ Khan ...... That guy just shutt India up as you know now Pakistan could Nuke India (hopefully in theory only).... and if India decides to Nuke Pakistan it will be as nuking themselves ... thats why your Prime Minister goes to USA and wags his tail on expense of Khan .... And you know what is funny he is your president`s cousin ........ talk about deception if not corruption ... you guys are still ahead ......