Immigrants: Na Idhar ke, Na uddhar ke

Re: # 58

ana –

``ananaas``

oye, sattianaas!

``Is anyone truly and unquestionably happy where they are?
``

Yeah. I am quite happy in the states. Would not live anywhere else.

Re: # 59

“People born/bred in the west who have south asian parents have it the hardest. Your skin is brown so you canNOT be American/Canadian..! To be constantly questioned about your identity is not easy.”

That sweeping statement is a jaundice-eye view and is not true. It only tells that you live on the periphery and are far from the center. Many desis are well integrated into the American/Canadian system and their identities never questioned.

#53 DM and Tahmed Janaab,

Those paradise enclaves in Saudia are only for Gora Logs. I know one Sikh Engineer in MA(Third Generation American), who took a job with an American company and lived in one of those enclaves. Saudi Police made his life hell every time he would try to enter the gates with his white-American wife into this camp. Finally they decided to come back to Boston, as per him- he would prefer death over living in Saudia.

In India, Delhi especially there are lots of colonies AKA Mohallas where rich people hire guards etc and fence themselves in, just like Army Cantonments. But I don’t think it will work in India.

Where my parents live in South Delhi, price of a 2000 ft house is almost same as Manhattan, however despite all the expensive nice looking houses, it does not feel the same as NY. These houses have one or two incumbents and a dozen Naukars, drivers, maalis etc. If you go out for a walk on the street, you only see poor Naukars roaming around. I wonder how quality of living can be improved (materialistically) without propagating the riches uniformly to everyone, just like in West.
Even the poorest New Orleaneans lived in better conditions than rich of Delhi in term of access to things etc.
I don’t know how it compares with Pakistan????

Romair#56:

There was a bit of an exaggeration in that description about the fantasy island in the desert. From what I have been told, these enclaves are exempt from local laws. As soon as you come out of them, a woman has to cover herself and not be seen at the driving wheel or with a bible in her car. But as long as you are within those enclaves, you can live the life of the West that you are used to.

Batool Ji,

Very nice read. I agree with the points made by kidbeegorilla in #47. Its usually us lot (the ones born and bred abroad) that they refer to as `na udhar key na idhar key` but actually most of us lot are actually quite happy where we are. I remember seeing what you describe with my parents.

I think my mum had an easier time with it simply cause she moved only after and only due to marraige, she knew her life was gonna be different after marriage regardless where she went, it is all gonna be paraia des be it the next shehir or the next country. However she couldn`t go back to see her family as often as my aunties did (they all lived in Pak or some middle eastern country)

I also think the distance you are from your original place makes a huge difference on your nostalgia and the amount of it and the ferocity with which you feel it. When i lived in Canada i used to somehow feel the physical distance even more, you are so much more aware of the fact that there are two big oceans between you and your country. The distance and cold eventually made me come back to the UK and i don`t foresee going to live anywhere in north america for a long time if at all.

In the UK there is a much bigger South Asian community, 1 Million in London alone. There are so many flights every day from any London airport to any South Asian city, there is so much coming and going, so many cheap flights etc (plus you get one month minimun vacation here as opposed to two saryhal weeks) that here you feel that `if i feel the need to go back i will go back soon, whenever, maybe even for a long weekend next month` (Lahore is only 7 hours away and if ppl can go to NYC for long weekends why not Pakistani ppl back to Pakistan?)

However, that long weekend rarely comes cause you just get so busy and more importantly you know you have that option, and like anything else when you have that option you don`t really `crave` it as much. The feelings of nostalgia are even less for my family in Dubai and Saudi Arabia (tho they actually do go back quite often!)

Anyways

Take care
A

One aspect of Canadian society that i did not touch upon is the lack of jobs which some of
the interactors have pointed out. Indeed what you hear about highly skilled south asians ending up taxi drivers in Canada is true. Although economics did play a role in our decision to come back to karachi, it wasnt a major player. Fortunately.
I was under the impression that armed with a canadian degree,i would have no problems finding a job in karachi. reality though is different. I have yet to find a wellpaid job in my field (and i have used the Pakistani-quitessential means to get a job i.e. ``source`` as well) but in Canada, simply by emailing my resume and following some rudimentary online instructions, i got an interview and later, a job with one of the best employers in the country. I have come to realize that there are no universal truths about either canada or pakistan vis a vis job hunting. But atleast in canada, merit gets one somewhere.

I tend to agree with #47 Kidbeegorilla: People born/bred in the west who have south asian parents have it the hardest. Your skin is brown so you canNOT be American/Canadian..! To be constantly questioned about your identity is not easy. And to feel lost in/no connection to the country your parents constantly talk about is rather hard.

doublec#23:
Why are you so upset baba? As much as it upsets me to deflate your sails, I am happy i came back. atleast i dont reminisce constantly and feel like im living a half-hearted life. Like i said, family obligations and other circumstances made us return. If it was up to my spouse, we would never have left toronto.

#36 Veeresh ji:
Toronto bhi kissi se kum nahi! Granted it does not have the pictureque beauty of Vancouver, or the charm of Marseilles, but hey it has an awesome film festival, Gerard Street and some of the best Italian food ever. Not to mention a spirited Left

#57 Tahmed sahab: I just visited the said country and I couldnt agree more.Your earlier post: I do not feel sorry for myself, in fact i consider myself fortunate to have gone through this experience.

Thank you all those who expressed their empathy and good wishes. means alot.

Batool

guddu:

well it`s all settled then. :)

--ananaas (!)

dm #53 thanks for clarifying. and since those ex-pat enclaves are like diplomatic enclaves which exist in any country, i think you will agree that you didnt really mean it when you wrote that ``Only Saudi Arabia has been able to do so.`` Saudi Arabia, with its dictatorial monarchy, is in fact the very antithesis of values like individual freedoms that have provided the soil I mentioned in my previous post. And indeed, India and even Pakistan (despite the military usurping of power in the latter) are miles ahead of Saudi Arabia in this regard.

Dost-mittar #53: ``where people can drink, swim, wear bikinis and fornicate to their heart`s desire as the local laws do not apply to them``

Are there really places like this, in the world!! Are there any in Canada? Could you give me some more info on them. I think I may have been wasting my vacations in Las Vegas and Islamabad.......

Drink, swim, bikinis, fornicate, no local laws...........the five things that make the world go `round, if you ask me........and that too, to one`s heart`s desire!!.....sounds like a dream come true..........I think you may be talking about heaven............

I hope you are not talking about Ottowa.........

Chal utth chalyae, daes turr chalyae

sohniyaan watnaan noon, chadd kay aaunda naan
dard judieyaan daa, gall naal launda naan
aiyhou dil chandaa, aithay kadeen vee naan aanda
lay kay aiyeyaan majboorian

Chal utth chalyae, daes turr chalyae

mehnat keetee aye, maal kamayaa aye
sub kujj milyaa aye, par watan parayaa aye
dil tay kee beetee, ajj sachi gal keetee
mainoon maar gaeyaan dooriyaan

Chal utth chalyae, daes turr chalyae

Chal utth chalyae, daes turr chalyae

sohniyaan watnaan noon, chadd kay aaunda naan
dard judieyaan daa, gall naal launda naan
aiyhou dil chandaa, aithay kadeen vee naan aanda
lay kay aiyeyaan majboorian

Chal utth chalyae, daes turr chalyae

mehnat keetee aye, maal kamayaa aye
sub kujj milyaa aye, par watan parayaa aye
dil tay kee beetee, ajj sachi gal keetee
mainoon maar gaeyaan dooriyaan

Chat utth chalyae, daes turr chalyae

tahmed32:

Hazoor, I was thinking of the ex-pat enclaves created in places like Jeddah where people can drink, swim, wear bikinis and fornicate to their heart`s desire as the local laws do not apply to them. Of course, lately, Al Qaeda, has caused a little disturbance in this paradise.

dm #50 ``recreate a little America/Canada in a big city in India or Pakistan. Only Saudi Arabia has been able to do so.``

Disagree. Modern buildings and highways are merely the easy-to-get fruits of western civilization, and that is all Saudi Arabia has been able to do. The soil on which the fruit tree grows does not exist as yet in the Saudi kingdom, which is a desert in more ways than one.

Re: # 46

ana –

“i guess you weren`t amused”

On the contrary. “guddu” signifies a lot of pyar. But it’s true: ana hi ana!

batool:

It would be nice if we could pick and choose from the various cities. Sadly, this is not possible as cities/countries come in packages and you have to choose the one you like best. My own theory is that if people are happy where they grew up, they should stay there.

Six months ago, some close relatives in India got their green card and I gave them my unsolicited advice, which was that they would never be able to replicate their lifestyle in the USA. They have come any way to try out for a period of two years. Again, my advice to them is that, if they want to go back, they should do within six months, otherwise they would be `na idhar kay na udhar kay`. They will miss clean air and clean, uniterrupted water and power in Delhi just as they miss their friends and neighbours now.

I would say however that it is easier for people so inclined to create a little India or Pakistan in any big city in North America than it is to recreate a little America/Canada in a big city in India or Pakistan. Only Saudi Arabia has been able to do so.