Immigrants: Na Idhar ke, Na uddhar ke

Well...the NHL is back...so Canadian men are less gay now..

You can safely return to Canada...

#41 by malik99 on October 5, 2005 11:05pm PT



How long would it be before fast eroding liberties in America


Sure...In a few years, American and European women will be getting themselves raped to get a Pakistan visa...

America is doomed!!

Batool, are you canadian? if not, you are still udhar ki (my view). It`s desi canooks (born breed live) who are na idhar na udhar oulter poutler. i am sure being a guest worker is a bit difficult, you try to acclimatize to the new surroundings, then you have to go back and readjustto what you left behind. But it`s harder when you have yourself directly left nothing behind and are constantly forced to jam it up your face, as in the case of people like yours truly, born and bred elsewhere and forced to confrom to ideals and upbringings from some totally other wierd place. what connection do people like me have with south asia, except clothes and some cheap flicks/sitcoms? yet we are constantly bombarded by questions like ``where are you from``, from our own people as well as outsiders where? hell, HERE dude. And I don`t even have an accent! (I mean desi). i don`t know why our elder folk force this regression on us, but they do. k i gott a go, l8r.

and no, it takes a month to get your phone fixed up in good ole GTA. and have you seen the recycling mess the city`s teamed up with? haha. puke.

godot: #42

naaaaah. nothing like that. nothing actually. hum yahaaN kisi ke aisay kuch nahiN lagtay! LOL. ana hi ana. i guess you weren`t amused, eh?

Re: # 12
Kulharee u r funny!
I think the ideal situation would be to live in the west and keep visiting the east every now and then and try to be happy where ever u r.

Re: # 8

..This is one of a very rare times that a Pakistani living in Canada has not blamed something on Bush or the United States for her predicament. So congratulation for being the first...``

Yes. I congratulate him too. Even a brief stay in Canada should remind one that a high degree good governance, rule of law, orderliness, prsence of a governament that cares for people, institutions of justice for all , little corruption etc can been achieved elsewhere in a Land of Infidels too even though there is necessarily NO utopia in Canada.

Now time to move learn from others and build a good society in Pakistan.

There are 3 conventional wisdoms about this. (1) Cow has come home (Jithoo di Khoti, Uthay aa Khaloti); (2) Whatever catches your fancy (Different strokes for Different folks); and (3) Happy people will be happy no matter the place.

Ideally, one should have a lot of money and be able to do whatever one wishes. Go home every week. That will be great. When Johny Come Lately goes to his childhood place after living in some other place for some period of time, old things look new all over again, old friends feel closer and sexier than before… but the novelty lasts only for about a month or so. The best one can do is to be happy no matter where, and make the best of it. It doesn’t meant that one will not miss the places one remembers from earlier days.

Re: # 35

ana -

And what are you...annoo?

I (again) missed the punch line for #40, which is:

Regardless of the economic boom that east asia is experiencing, europe and america will continue to hold a charm for at least another generation. And that would largely be due to prospective immigrants` dreams for economic and personal liberties. How long would it be before fast eroding liberties in America in particular and west in general make them on equal footing with east asian countries? That is a huge TBD.

nazar #38 writes ``I think the charm of West has waned because of various reasons ``

I tend to concur with that.

Having lived and travelled in southeast asia for the past few months, i have come to this conclusion that the ``action`` is not in west alone anymore. Asia, specfically east asia, has plenty of action too. Thailand, although a developing country, looks very much like NYC in look and feel. Anything and everything you can find in US, you can find here as well. The labor cost is so low that the apartment complexes can afford to hire staff just to salute you as you enter and leave.

And then there is this massive behemoth on march - China. The magnitude of the influence that China has begun to exhert in Asia and beyond is still not adequately understood / covered in US. Along with itself, Chinese demand alone has lifted millions in the region from poverty into a middle class that demands imported coffee in the morning. In all my interactions with some of the very bright people, none (so far) have indicated that they look at europe / america as their promised land. Most of the technical / business trainings and seminars that employees need to undergo occur in China / Korea / Thailand / Singapore / malaysia etc. Cross border tourism is picking up - next week 11,000 chinese will come to bangkok on an employers-subsidized vacation trip.

However, there is one trend that I never noticed before - the slow but sure migration of europeans and americans into Asia. I have come across many americans (particularly from the West coast) who either moved permanently to east Asia or are working on contract here over the last 5-10 years due to job losses in silicon valley. Of course many old and fragile western men move here as well just to relive their youth by marrying a 20 something thai girl, but I am not including them in my above mentioned assessment.

In addition, due to visa restrictions in the west, many of the muslims are increasingly looking at these countries for tourism / business purposes. Middle eastern section of Bangkok is more full of people than anyone can recall from just a few years ago.

Batool, nice writing.
nostalgia of being away from home is usually found in expats,some are worried for their growing daughters and some for their parents.I think nothing like the home.

Batool

I think the charm of West has waned because of various reasons - 9/11, and that imperceptable feeling of being an outsider. The job market is almost saturated in the West especially for outsiders, regardless of citizenship. On the other hand, the economies of Asia & standard of living is constantly improving. With the new generation in, even the Government systems are gradually inproving.

You you may have noticed the springing up of good educational institutions and hospitals in Pakistan. The Newspapers are full of jobs in every category. A well educated person straightaway gets a job. In fact, there is a dearth of qualified people.

But our general phyche is to prefer washing plates or doing menial work abroad but disregard the oppurtunities back home.

Your life in Toronto must be tough. The daily routine of bringing groceries, cooking, cleaning, shoveling snow and doing each and everything yourself. Unlike back home.

Back home, it may be dusty, chaotic, dirty - so what. It is ours. We are used to the chaos, a bit of sifarish, a bit of leg pulling, a bit of family gossip - it is our culture. We mind other people`s business. It is in our system.

So my choice for even vacation is no more West but the good old poor developing chaotic countries. These are more familiar and in tune with my internal systems.

nhk

I liked this article.
Presently mr and Mrs YLH are having tag team boxing with hindu Kafirs ( As Mr. G called) like Mr. Beej and gentleman and I do not want to get boxed and knocked out. So I will have here little write up. I always like little things with out gravity which gives tension.
People always go back to their birth places and really strange not logical thing. I am born and worked Karachi. For me its good city, if you have reasonable job and living place and if you can keep away from alcohol and drugs. Its port city with nice moist weather. It has old character and charm. I can easily think all who lived once in Karachi will always like in some way. It has its ugly warts but you get used to it.

I have tried for usa but was rejected as they only want people who can support themselves and have too many tests for accepting. I feel bad as I would have liked to live in usa, uk etc real foreign countries with white and tall and rich people.

But foreign has also problems.
Many have gone from here and have no good life. They have to clean pots themselves and make laundry and hard work. I think if you do not pass needed exams there you are in problem. One of my friends son was doctor and he tried lot but could not pass exam of USA doctors course and he has to work as ambulance attendant and has to work with stupid people and low level people. If you have no good job in foreign land then its not good as then you are useless and children hate father as he is not competant. It will never happen back. Also there lots nice army officers are reduced to nigh centries or liquir clearks at little shops which have lots of dark skinned people and they hate browns and they some times shoot browns. Also there managers at fast food have work all time standing and even sometimes sweep floor. I have heard the sytem is so mean that manager also has to pay to eat.A selfrespecting manager will not do such things in Karachi.
Many browns( deshi) get in alcohol. Hindu eats beef and muslim eats pig Sandwitches and both drink liquior and smoke Ganja and stuff.
The real misery is to be parent. If you have daughter then you are dead by worry. There so many different types there and lots of dark skinned people. And lots of Desi are under stress and can not tell daughters not to talk to such people as at that age they like to wrong things and defame all Khandan. You can not do anything there as laws are not paying attention to honor and Khandan that individual choice and worst things have happened. Some nice family daughthers have married dark skinned people and produced hybrid type children and family is in shame. Boys are better in sense thae have sense. They may be antirecist but will not date dark skinned people or marrying. But usa big white man do same stuff. Like clinton is sexmaniac and has mentality of male cat and antirecist and lover of darkskinned people. He only chases white women though love dark skinned people. But really he does not love them but idiots take his word, i do not believe he is like most desis like watermellon green outside red inside. He has never chased dark skinned woman or looked at any with lust in his heart.
Also young people getting in Zina sex etc. Karachi is good place to raise children and they can marry little dark MQM but never you have to be ashamed to marrying dark skinned people. Now things are changed secular modern look for dark skinned life partner. Same stuff in real every desi man and woman wants fairer life partner. This is big problem. Any ways karachi is fine compared to other places to raise children and keep safe from drugs, zina sex, secularism and other bad stuff. Lots of parents cry why they became foreign when their children do above all wrong things and they die at heart by sadness.

Re: # 3, hey Romair, that`s good to hear, you going back to where you started from, are you going to migrate back to India then? Validation, finally.

+++

Author writes an interesting article but then if the ``udhar`` was Toronto, I can understand. Now if only ``udhar`` had been, say, Vancouver BC or Marseilles, then it would have been different, right?

godot,

i have this wild urge to call you guddu right now!!! *evil grin* please get your barf bag ready.

LOL

batool Ali
Interesting topic. rather creative. yes, that is the ugly side of Karachi, but, I think sense of beloning is the most satisfying sense which overcome all the ugliness.

Same is with me, so, many times I thought of going back to Pakistan.But, I am scared to return.....