Language of Power: How it is getting more exclusive

The problem Khammy is that this is NOT 18th century Urdu (with no tinge of Farsi)

This is Modern Urdu Conveyancing... used in the courts of law in Pakistan even as we speak. It is actually an easier version since I could not think of the right words.

Re: # 63

Manto Ji, I will send you a pack of kinderchocolade for winning this argument with me (over the color of our National ID Card). I must applaud your persistence and you brilliance and your fortitude and your yearning in always wanting to be right.

Regards,

Kulharee

challenge to manto...
manto...
if you like i can translate your 18th century court paper written in furdu...farsi-urdu prevalent in those days ...vaise i bet you can`t translate a passage i will put here which is 17th century english...do you agree to the terms...and the loser will stay away from chowk forever...;)

ps: please confirm the terms so that we can get riddance of the bad rubbish for ever...

Re: # 42
manto...
if you like i can translate your 18th century court paper written in furdu...farsi-urdu prevalent in those days ...vaise i bet you can`t translate a passage i will put here which is 17th century english...do you agree to the terms...and the loser will stay away from chowk forever...;)

ps: please confirm the terms so that we can get riddance of the bad rubbish for ever...

Behram:

digression:

* languages ‘evolve’…Urdu is a prime example…out of perisian, turkish, prakrits …khaRi boli…etc.

two more personal digressions:

* a traveler who travels all over india (with 16 major language groups)…for essentials ( room, lodgings, directions, transportation, food) would be forced to communicate with the locals in english … or in the north only …also… hindustani or hindi

* same traveler now travelling all over pakistan (with five major language groups) …for essentials would be forced to communicate with the locals in urdu…(ignoring pockets of english in major urban centres)

more respectfully submitted

t

``That is how most of Pakistan feels, when he speaks in English..........``

How in the name of god did you become an expert of what most of Pakistan thinks?


Why don`t you just translate 39... or spare us your treatise of sh-t?

#12 by Romair on October 2, 2005 5:24pm PT


Personally speaking, I never speak English, unless talking with someone who cannot understand any other language, or on Chowk


Telling people to wear t-shirts with paki flags post 9/11 sound as stupid in urdu as it does in English....

Kulharee...

Your dishonesty is visible in the way you argue...

I was talking about the current Pakistani card... when I spoke about religion column not being there. It was in response to your comment about language not being there. It was a simple statement of fact. Then you lied and claimed that there was color differentiation ... you were again proved wrong. I never claimed that old cards didn`t have a religion column ... they did... I am not arguing for Pakistan`s superiority or that discrimination does not exist in Pakistan.. that is a blatant lie... I didn`t have an agenda when I made that statement except calling a spade a spade..

Your problem is that you started an irrelevant discussion... had you said that there was discrimination- horrible discrimination against non-Muslims- I would have gladly agreed with you... infact that is what I was saying in post 21... and has been a constant position.

But you decided to blatantly lie which you have now accepted.

behram #43: ``Actually, on the contrary, by not allowing English to grow in Pakistan, we are disallowing 90% of Pakistan to the economic benefit English language brings.``

Who is saying that we should not allow English to grow in Pakistan?

But there is a difference between letting a language grow, and forcing it on people, who cannot even understand it. It the aim is to make English the common language of Pakistan, then declare it as the national language, and provide everyone from the poor groups, an opportunity to learn it..........

However, it is quite ridiculous to create social divides on the basis of a language that is foreign to the country. If you don`t think it is frustrating for the 90% or more of the Pakistani population, who cannot speak English, in the job field and in society in general, then I am afraid you and I have a different understanding of the Pakistani society.

``Badtameez Urdu medium`` is a phrase of inferiority in Pakistan. How far is a country going to go, if such phrases are accepted lingo, in its society? The ability to speak good English is an elitist social divide in Pakistan. It is, in fact, the highest elitist divide in the country, other than wealth. Perhaps even higher.......

If the aim is to grow English in Pakistan, then it should be grown. And at an aggressive pace, thereby bringing everyone on even terms. Declare it the national language and provide everyone facilities to learn it. However, if it cannot be grown, or is not grown, then it is counterproductive for an elite to cling to it, thereby keeping the rest of the country on a lower tier........

A person living in his own country, being left behind socially, just because he speaks his own national language, and is not proficient in the language of another country, is a sad state of affairs...........As is the leadership of a country, making important speeches in the world, in languages that their own countrymen cannot understand......

Suppose Musharraf went to the UN and started speaking in Chinese - the most spoken langauge in the world. Wouldn`t you feel odd that you couldn`t understand what he was saying.........That is how most of Pakistan feels, when he speaks in English..........

Waiting for the great Urdudan Romair to please post a translation to 39.

Re: # 50

Manto Sahi, in 92, the government withdrew the idea of listing one’s religion on the card, however, it continues to do so in the forms (as you stated) as well as on the passport (religion was listed on cards issued prior to 92). So what exactly are you arguing about? Get your head out of your ass, as I really don’t give a jack about what you think I am or I am not. You can call me a lair all you want, and call me Pakistani or not-Pakistani, as it doesn’t make one bit difference to me. Just don’t call me a Molvi. You just made a complete U-Turn, first no-religion, and now you state that religion was identified on old cards. Hello? First decide for yourself what is a Pakistani card worth, then come are argue with me. Shabbash.

Regards.

if urdu is not the national language of pak, how come the circulation of jang is 10x that of the circulation of all the english language newspapers combined? numbers are even more skewered when you compare urdu newspapers with a regional language newspapers.

as for english language, thais cant speak cant speak english to save their lives. and yet thai exports exceed that of india and pak combined. quite an achievement for a qaum that was was never blessed by british rule.

Tahmed...

I suppose that was as per the Constitution of 1973 article 251:

``(1) The National language of Pakistan is Urdu, and arrangements shall be made for its being used for official and other purposes within fifteen years from the commencing day.

(2) Subject to clause (1), the English language may be used for official purposes until arrangements are made for its replacement by Urdu.

(3) Without prejudice to the status of the National language, a Provincial Assembly may by law prescribe measures for the leaching, promotion and use of a Provincial language in addition to the National language. ``


Its been 32 years... out of which atleast 20 years were exceptional for their zeal in promoting Urdu... and it worked too to the extent that I don`t know how to speak Punjabi ... and I am proud of it.

But the failure of Urdu is now painfully obvious... just like the failure of prohibition...the failure of Islam to stop all sins in Pakistan etc etc...

arjun: learn english from arjun!! (oooo...paki..paki..paki.....oooo!!)

Romair: you write ``If I had a choice of learning one language today, I would learn Mandarin.``

Hell!! I could have sworn that you were already an expert in mandarin, given that write all your posts in what seems like mandarin.

Pakistan’s military as well as civilian governments gain the Super Power’s sympathies through their knowledge of English.


Nope...they do it by their ability to follow the super power`s instructions...instructions that are furnished in English..