Language of Power: How it is getting more exclusive

ylh #53 at the lahore academy for administrative services they tried to teach us ``dafteri urdu``!! with an ancient lakhnavi guy teaching us elaborate flowery methods of address. the time would have been better spent teaching the government officials how to brush their teeth.

ally:

i didn`t say that you`re saying one language is better than the other. the person who you are agreeing with has all but said that in some of his posts (and now he might say we`re putting words in his mouth)

look, instead of arguing about one language of power, we should be talking about the power of language, and how that power is kept from a vast majority of the population, whether it be english or urdu. it`s easy for those of us to sit at our computers and type out prescriptions. and the ironic part is we`re doing it in english. . . .

chalo :) miles to go and all that. . .

Tahmed...

The inability of the great Urdudan and Shair, Mirza Asadullah Romair, to translate my post 39... is clear indication of how useful Urdu is as an official language.

The idiomatic English translation is much simpler and clearer..

kaurasach #25: ``What do you expect? Urdu? English ruled the world. Naturally, their language became the lingua franca of the globe. Its as simple as that.``

This is true. But the picture is slowly changing.

The most spoken language in the world today is Mandarin. Nearly three times as many people speak Mandarin as their first langauge, as English. In fact, English is third, behind Mandarin and Spanish. Hindi/Urdu is fourth. Bengali is fifth. Though on some lists, Hindi/Urdu is second, ahead of English!

Mandarin is also the highest spoken as a second langauge, also. English is the second most spoken second language. Not the first.

If I had a choice of learning one language today, I would learn Mandarin. Anyone who can speak English, Mandarin and Hindi/Urdu is going to be hot property in the business field, in the coming years. In fact, a person with such skills, in my field of IT is already hot property.

As the world advances, and the Mandarin and Hindi/Urdu areas get out of the third world, the importance of these langauges is bound to rise. Once China reaches the same level of influence in the world, as the USA, Mandarin will turn into a must-know language, like English.

The importance of languages seems to have a direct relationship with the amount of confidence people have in their own societies. For example, Ireland is now one of the best places to live in Europe. It is the second wealthiest country in the world, now. And ranks ahead of USA, Japan and UK on the HDI. Based on that, there seems to be a bit of rise of the old Irish pride. And now Irish Gaelic has been added as the official language of the EU!!

I think the influence of English, today, actually has more to do with the influence of the USA in the world. As that balances out, with the rise of Asian economies, with far larger populations, things will change. Interestingly, English is the lingua franca of the EU. Even though it should be German. Since Germany and Austria constitute 25% of the EU GDP.

The USA, historically, passed English as its official language by one vote (a myth?). Had it passed German as its official language, everyone would be speaking German, todaya, regardless of how many lands the Brits ruled.........

further to my previous post: on the other hand, there have never been any language riots in pakistan against teaching english - since the students know that this is how they will get jobs both inside pakistan and abroad.

PS: Kulhari

Another reason I know you are a liar is because the previous ID card (Yellow coloured) that ALL PAKISTANIS had did have a religious column on it. The new ID card doesn`t.

By claiming that the previous ID card was of a different colour and did not have religion column on it you have proved that you have no clue what you are talking about.

One should not be a disgusting liar... there is no one here who has spoken out more conclusively against religious discrimination in Pakistan but you are merely fibbing and I doubt that you are even a minority...

whenever the pakistan government has tried to impose urdu, there has been trouble in pakistan. starting with the language riots in e. pakistan in early 1950`s that has had a lasting effect (monuments to those killed in the language riots are to be found all over bangladesh). no one can impose a language or a culture - it is like trying to turn back the ocean tides.

learn english and get a job. dont learn english and be jobless.

this is going to become increasingly true in the future.

Kulharee... the color of the ID Card was always the same. When it was Yellow it was Yellow for all... when it was organish green it was Orangish green for all ... and now its light green for all...

And you are a liar.. there is no other way of saying it.

The Reality

1) That issue of state language is separate from national language. Urdu has proved inadequate as a state language. If not, then please ask Romair to translate my conveyancing (only 20% of the real thing in court).

2) That Sindhis and the Baloch are voluntarily part of the federation and as per the principle of Pakistan, they can choose to secede.

3) That Sindhis and the Baloch, even if they understand Urdu (and they don`t), are NOT ready to accept Urdu as the national language. There is a consensus on this. Even PPP politicians, the most Pakistani of them all, don`t want Urdu. PML Functional also stands opposed to Urdu. We are not even talking about Sindhi nationalists here.

4) The reality is that Romair has proved himself to be a hypocrite as usual.

Ana

I am not saying one language is better than the other, and if i ever were to get emotional about a language then that could only be Punjabi. What i`m trying to explain to Manto is that at this moment in time. More ppl in Pakistan understand Urdu than English, yes not everyone as you pointed out, but a lot.

Out of the two for our leaders to choose English whilst talking to the average Pakistani just doesn`t make sense. Practically it would be Urdu as that is one that is most widely understood in the country.

Re: # 40

Manto, what a typical Paki attitude, when ran out of dumb excuse, start calling people names. If you think that they ask it on the form for one’s religion, what would stop them from identifying it on the cards? Are you just pretending to be thick? The color of the old Minorities cards was not orangish green, but yellow yellow… and it identified one’s religions as either Muslim or non-Muslim… If you like I can give you monkey`s address and you can check for yourself, you may find your ancestors hiding in there.

Re: # 37

Dear Romair,

Once again, respectfully, I disagree with your thought. And please forgive me for that.

You suggest that [see how frustrated they are with having a social divide based on the English language, forced upon them. I doubt too many of them would prefer English over Urdu, as far as a national language.] is absolutely false. Actually, on the contrary, by not allowing English to grow in Pakistan, we are disallowing 90% of Pakistan to the economic benefit English language brings.

When comparing Chinese workers with Indian workers, time and time again, the Indians get an edge because of the English language. Romair, whether you like it or not, English has become the language of Business, and I thought that you knew that.


Respectfully submitted,

Behram B. Atashband

Romair- the expat field marshall- has spoken on how it is in Pakistan sitting thousands of miles away in Canada.

Get a life... or translate my post 39

Manto

regardless of what you say the reality is that Urdu is more understood and spoken than English. Ordinary ppl as mentioned in the scenario below will communicate the way they know how, and in Pakistan that is Urdu, unless one of them speaks the others language.

Sindhis and Baluchis aren`t unhappy to learn Urdu, what they are unhappy about is status that has been given to their own languages within the Pakistani federation, an unhappiness that is now becoming more apparent in Punjab.

It is not that we dislike Urdu and are vehement opponents of it, what we would like is that our mother tongues be given the respect they deserve by the centre i.e. Islamabad.

English is used by the elite ppl to show how `elite` they are, thats all, just the way before it was Farsi, and now its English.

Kulharee...

Please stop lying... I have seen all ID cards and they were always one color. They used to be orangish green and now they are light green... for all Pakistanis...

So my guess is that you are just another loser in a long line of losers.