The Naked Fakir

A word about the historical sources posted here:

1) Posts 72-77, 92, 96-97, 99-100, 102-103, 105, 108-110, 112, 115 are all taken direct quotes from Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi... I take full responsibility for any misquotes that maybe found.

2) Each citation has a date and page number.

3) I have tried to be very respectful to Mr Gandhi, despite provocation by people like Sadna. My aim is as explained in post 34... to give the otherside of the story.

This concludes our ``Racist Gandhi`` posts.

We shall continue Gandhi`s relations with other Indian religions and castes soon enough.

All interactors:

In keeping with my own advice, let me provide the dates for the two items from which I quoted earlier:

(1) AN AUTOBIOGRAPHY or The story of my experiments with truth, by Mohandas K. Gandhi (original publication date 1928).

(2) Satyagraha in South-Africa, by Mohandas K. Gandhi, Original editor & publisher – Navajivan Publishing House, Ahmedabad (original publication date 1928)

Please keep the difference in dates in mind when you compare with quotation from such years as 1903, 1904, etc.

For those who are mathematically challenged (Mantolies, for example) the difference is approximately 20 - 25 years – or about what would be considered a gap of a generation length!

In other words, enough length of time to – GROW UP!!!

Sincerely,
Beej.

Harimau , actually that was a shallow hasty analysis on my part. I think to understand Manto`s mentality , one has to focus on the lingering effects of the serious assaults , even of the sexual kind , perpetrated on him by the high school boys that he taught a few months back....

I have, though, resolved in my mind on an agitation to ensure that Indian prisoners are not lodged with Kaffirs or others. When I arrived at the place, there were about 15 Indian prisoners. Except for three, all of them were satyagrahis. The three were charged with other offences. These prisoners were generally lodged with kaffirs. When I reached there, the chief warder issued an order that all of us should be lodged in a separate room. I observed with regret that some Indians were happy to sleep in the same room as the Kaffirs, the reason being that they hoped there for a secret supply of tobacco, etc. This is a matter of shame to us. We may entertain no aversion to the Kaffirs, but we cannot ignore the fact that there is no common ground between them and us in the daily affairs of life. Moreover, those who wish to sleep in the same room have ulterior motives for doing so.
Obviously, we ought to abandon such notions if we want to make progress.


Indian Opinion, 6-1-1909, CWOMG Vol. 9, pg 149

#93 by Hello-I-am-the-RSS-rep-here-sadna

“Did Gandhi ask for a separate nation because Indians couldn`t live with blacks and were totally separate civilizations?”

Unfortunately he almost did! He advocated that it is okay to keep blacks in ghettos as long as Indians are not kept there. He asked that Indians should travel in separate cars in trains and objected to Indians being huddled in the same cars in a train with blacks.

““A general belief seems to prevail in the colony that the Indians are little better, if at all, than the savages or natives of Africa.” Gandhi

He really believed that Indians are better than blacks and should not live with them. Btw, he also believed that whites are better than Indians.

You are fighting a losing battle again. Gandhi espoused and supported racist causes in South Africa and there is no denying that. The best course is to accept his not-so-thoughtful thoughts and take a stand on his some political achievements.

“Till independence, he also refused to concede ever that any other party except his Muslim League could represent Muslims of India - even the 30%?”

At least after 1945 it was accurate. There was no party in India except the ML that could have possibly claimed any representation of Muslims. The Congress allied with the most regressive section of Muslims –the mullah- was not able to capture Muslim votes and thus effectively ceded Muslim representation mantle to the Muslim league.

Jinnah had a valid political argument. You can whine as much as you want but that was the fact accepted by Muslims, Congress and the British.

You are misrepresenting about the 30% left behind. Till independence, he had the most votes from the 30% in the pre-independence India. After the partition, he never made any such claim for Muslims left behind.

Ref Ranger #87

[That idiot Yasser Hamdani is repeating as usual his `Gandhi=Racist` rants. The idea is to build up on his pet Jinnah by crapping on Gandhi.]

Wow! That explains Yasser`s role in life.

He is the city pigeon with a particular fondness for the statue of Mahatma Gandhi!

Another Gandhi classic... for Baoo Beej...


INDIANS ON PAR WITH KAFFIRS

There, our garments were stamped with the letter `N`, which meant that we were being classed with the Natives. We were all prepared for hardships, but not quite for this experience. We could understand not being classed with the whites, but to be placed on the same level with the Natives seemed too much to put up with. I then felt that Indians had launched on passive resistance too soon. Here was further proof that the obnoxious law was intended to emasculate the Indians.

It was, however, as well that we were classified with the Natives. It was a welcome opportunity to study the treatment meted out to the Natives, their conditions [of life in the gaol] and their habits. ...We were given a separate ward because we were sentenced to simple imprisonment; otherwise we would have been in the same ward [with the Kaffirs]. Indians sentenced to hard labour are in fact kept with the Kaffirs.

Apart from whether or not this implies degradation, I must say it is rather dangerous. Kaffirs are as a rule uncivilized -- the convicts even more so. They are troublesome, very dirty, and live almost like animals. Each ward contains nearly 50 to 60 of them. They often started rows and fought among themselves. The reader can easily imagine the plight of the poor Indian thrown into such company

Indian Opinion, 7-3-1908, CWOMG Vol. 8, pg 135

Does it still hurt Yasser ? Poor little you. Is that why it is so hard to talk about it ? Do you still feel humiliated Yasser ? You dont have to feel embarassed my boy. After all , we are your friends. You can tell us.

I understand this is difficult for you. So why dont you begin by filling up with the little unneccessary details , then we can go on to the heart of the matter. As they say , little tiny drops made up the ocean. So what was the radius of the rod they used to penetrate you ?

This one is a classic... classic Gandhi that is:

CLASSIFICATION OF ASIATICS WITH NATIVES

The cell was situated in the Native quarters and we were housed in one that was labeled `For Coloured Debtors`. It was this experience for which we were perhaps all unprepared. We had fondly imagined that we would have suitable quarters apart from the Natives. As it was, perhaps, just as well that we were classed with Natives. We would now be able to study the life of Native prisoners, their customs and manners. ...Degradation underlay the classing of Indians with natives. The Asiatic Act seemed to me to be the summit of our degradation. It did appear to me, as I think it would appear to any unprejudiced reader, that it would have been simple humanity if we were given special quarters. ...the Governor of the gaol tried to make us as comfortable as he could...But he was powerless to accommodate us beyond the horrible din and the yells of the Native prisoners throughout the day and partly at night also. Many of the native prisoners are only one degree removed from the animal and often created rows and fought amongst themselves in their cells.

Indian Opinion 7-3-1908, CWOMG Vol. 8, pg 120

A pause before I continue...

Kulharee...

For once I agree with you.. Did you know the biggest fan of Gandhiji in Pakistan is Dr Israr Ahmed... he is of the view that Gandhi was a true genius... that Jinnah was a kafir and that Christians in Pakistan should be second class citizens...

Don`t believe me... go and check for yourself...

The last week has been very busy. We have not had a moment`s leisure. We saw Mr. Theodore Morison of Aligarh and the well-known Mr. Stead of the Review of Reviews. Mr. Stead has boldly come out to give us all the help he can. He was therefore requested to write to the same Boer leaders that they should not consider Indians as being on the same level as Kaffirs

Indian Opinion, 15-12-1906, CWOMG Vol. 6, pg 183

Re: # 100

We in Pakistan have a lot to thank Gandhi Ji for, in the way we treat our own Kalay people. In Pakistan 99% of the toilet cleaners are Kalay Hisai (dark Christians). I have yet to see a bearded Wahabi Hafiz-e-Quran cleaning toilets. Thank you Gandhi Ji for showing us the light on how to treat our own niggers.

Ref arjun_m #56

[{#51 by Mantolives on October 4, 2005 8:09am PT


I am happy to be the follower of a man who always sided with justice and fairplay...}


A man whose philosophy is largely irrelevant and ignored in today`s theocratic Pakistan... ]

I think our dear boy Yasser was referring to Prophet Mohammad rather than Jinnahbhai.

Separate and unequal... how dare you call us black: Gandhi



It reduces British Indians to a status lower than that of the aboriginal races of South Africa and the Coloured people.

Indian Opinion 15-9-1906, CWOMG Vol. 5, pg 419-423

Manto , hiding behind Gandhi wont solve anything. You cannot let those little high school bullies win. First step to healing is conversation. Tell us what they did to you.

More on SEPARATE AND UNEQUAL theory of Gandhiji...

His Excellency has, moreover, justified the definition of `coloured person` on the ground that it is a legacy from the old Government. But British Indians object to the definition for that very reason. Their position is this. The ordinances will not in practice apply to them. The Boer Government insulted the Indians by classing them with the Kaffirs. Now there is no occasion to perpetuate a needless insult

Indians in the O.R.C, Indian Opinion, 6-1-1906, CWOMG, Vol. 5, pg 177-178

Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi: CWOMG