Hiren K Bose October 3, 2005
#22 Posted by rahulmal on October 3, 2005 12:31:08 pm
Gandhiji`s greatness lies in the fact that he was able to raise Indians from their centuries long slumber, and made opposition of Raj, a common-place, even fashionable idea. His schemes were populist and his mechanisms simple. We must guage his success by what he set out to do and what he finally achieved.
Before his advent on the political scene in 20th century, Congress was a petition-party. The best politicians coudl think of in the way of freedom was self-rule. The millions of poor, hungry and mal-nutritioned people felt out-of-sync with the methods of constitutionalists, and did not feel they had any stake in freedom movement, whatsoever. People were sick of hearing the same notices served to the Lord Sahib, which then were sent to Queen, for further consideration, if not outrightly rejected by the Gora Sahib.
Gandhiji used a very unconventional method of striking at the enemy - Sathyagraha. His approach appealed to innately pacifist sentiments of the masses, which then started rallying to the cause of freedom, in increasing numbers. The movements, hartals, andolans etc. were organized in each and every part of India, to take as many people aboard as possible. The pursuit of freedom was no longer a chimera, it was within the realm of possibilities. And liberty now had meaning, not only for the elite, but also for the impoverished peasants and hopeless labourers.
He tried to reach out to all sections of society. His mobilization inculcated a national consciousness in our people, hitherto lacking, or forgotten due to centuries of foreign rule. He revitalized our broken spirit and laid the foundation-stones for the India that is.
I don`t think he would have approved of the excessive eulogization done for political benefits by successive Cong regimes. Being the practical man that he was, he would not have taken the catatastrophic path of quota-license Raj economy. Probably the treatment of marginzlized sections of society would have been more humane and pragmatic, if he were there at the helm for some more time.
Ultimately, the sainthood got to him. It killed the practical, insightful and clever leader, and replaced him with an egoist, obsessed with his greatness, and unable to come to terms with the changed realities. Mahatma had died before Nathuram`s bullets killed him.
Before his advent on the political scene in 20th century, Congress was a petition-party. The best politicians coudl think of in the way of freedom was self-rule. The millions of poor, hungry and mal-nutritioned people felt out-of-sync with the methods of constitutionalists, and did not feel they had any stake in freedom movement, whatsoever. People were sick of hearing the same notices served to the Lord Sahib, which then were sent to Queen, for further consideration, if not outrightly rejected by the Gora Sahib.
Gandhiji used a very unconventional method of striking at the enemy - Sathyagraha. His approach appealed to innately pacifist sentiments of the masses, which then started rallying to the cause of freedom, in increasing numbers. The movements, hartals, andolans etc. were organized in each and every part of India, to take as many people aboard as possible. The pursuit of freedom was no longer a chimera, it was within the realm of possibilities. And liberty now had meaning, not only for the elite, but also for the impoverished peasants and hopeless labourers.
He tried to reach out to all sections of society. His mobilization inculcated a national consciousness in our people, hitherto lacking, or forgotten due to centuries of foreign rule. He revitalized our broken spirit and laid the foundation-stones for the India that is.
I don`t think he would have approved of the excessive eulogization done for political benefits by successive Cong regimes. Being the practical man that he was, he would not have taken the catatastrophic path of quota-license Raj economy. Probably the treatment of marginzlized sections of society would have been more humane and pragmatic, if he were there at the helm for some more time.
Ultimately, the sainthood got to him. It killed the practical, insightful and clever leader, and replaced him with an egoist, obsessed with his greatness, and unable to come to terms with the changed realities. Mahatma had died before Nathuram`s bullets killed him.
#21 Posted by stuka on October 3, 2005 12:17:25 pm
``but I`d still question the mental faculties of anyone who claims that Gandhi was a ``freedom fighter``.. ``
There is no debate about the fact that he was a freedom fighter. I think what you mean is that his method of fighting for freedom would not have achieved much had WW2 and other circumstances not come along.
There is no debate about the fact that he was a freedom fighter. I think what you mean is that his method of fighting for freedom would not have achieved much had WW2 and other circumstances not come along.
#20 Posted by mohar11 on October 3, 2005 12:16:17 pm
Re: # 16
I think your time would be better spent finding a cure for jihadism in muslim societies and other assorted reforms that are urgently needed.....
Gandhi a ``freedom fighter`` or not - that is a moot question at this point of time.... for better or for worse - people across world have accepted him as ``apostle of peace`` ....It may be a hindoo marketing gimmick but it worked :) - can`t do nothing about that....
I think your time would be better spent finding a cure for jihadism in muslim societies and other assorted reforms that are urgently needed.....
Gandhi a ``freedom fighter`` or not - that is a moot question at this point of time.... for better or for worse - people across world have accepted him as ``apostle of peace`` ....It may be a hindoo marketing gimmick but it worked :) - can`t do nothing about that....
#19 Posted by Kulharee on October 3, 2005 12:10:50 pm
Re: # 18
On what grounds was Gandhi not a freedom fighter? His freedom struggle is the epitome of all freedom struggles.
On what grounds was Gandhi not a freedom fighter? His freedom struggle is the epitome of all freedom struggles.
#18 Posted by ali_1 on October 3, 2005 12:06:16 pm
kulharee: and your Pakistani ID card has a religion column, yeah sure dude!
#17 Posted by Kulharee on October 3, 2005 11:57:19 am
Re: # 16
What do you have to be to be a freedom fighter? Bin Laden?
The reality is that India won independence in 1947, and Bangladesh won independence in 1971. This is the decade of independence for Sindh and Pakhtoonabad. Let freedom reign.
What do you have to be to be a freedom fighter? Bin Laden?
The reality is that India won independence in 1947, and Bangladesh won independence in 1971. This is the decade of independence for Sindh and Pakhtoonabad. Let freedom reign.
#16 Posted by ali_1 on October 3, 2005 11:52:07 am
#13 ``But gandhi`s greatest contribution was NOT freedom from the colonisers - his greatest contribution was to the reform of a calcified hindu society....``
Good for the Hindu society.... but I`d still question the mental faculties of anyone who claims that Gandhi was a ``freedom fighter``..
Good for the Hindu society.... but I`d still question the mental faculties of anyone who claims that Gandhi was a ``freedom fighter``..
#15 Posted by KaalChakra on October 3, 2005 11:44:13 am
All we needed was another round of ``Gandhi - Good or Bad?`` debate! :)
#14 Posted by kaurasach on October 3, 2005 11:36:21 am
Since when is eating a danda - something to sing about??????? Why do hinjuns wear it as a badge of honor??
#13 Posted by mohar11 on October 3, 2005 11:34:08 am
Re: # 8
//....Would India have won freedom without a violent struggle a. la. Algeria if there hadn`t bee WWII?...//
Of course NOT!!! That`s true for most colonies - with or without violence struggle.... In case of India - violence struggle may NOT have succeeded either, even though that would have been more gratifying and glorious than the non-violent resistance which makes you look meek and weak....
But gandhi`s greatest contribution was NOT freedom from the colonisers - his greatest contribution was to the reform of a calcified hindu society....
//....Would India have won freedom without a violent struggle a. la. Algeria if there hadn`t bee WWII?...//
Of course NOT!!! That`s true for most colonies - with or without violence struggle.... In case of India - violence struggle may NOT have succeeded either, even though that would have been more gratifying and glorious than the non-violent resistance which makes you look meek and weak....
But gandhi`s greatest contribution was NOT freedom from the colonisers - his greatest contribution was to the reform of a calcified hindu society....
#12 Posted by Kulharee on October 3, 2005 11:33:44 am
English were not much of colonists, had it been Jews who ruled India, there wont be any India or Pakistan. It will all be Delhi Strip and west bank of Indus. Jews know how to control the uncultured crap. Only a bunch of fuking Desis will look for faults in someone who got them their liberation. If it weren’t for Gandhi Ji, you will all be singing God save the Queen, and by Queen I dont mean Mohammad Ali Jinnah.
#11 Posted by Beej on October 3, 2005 11:30:48 am
#5, #9 Kaura
Therefore, it’s probably safe to assume that it would be an overstatement to say that you are passionately in love with the Mahatma!
#9 Posted by kaurasach on October 3, 2005 11:26:33 am
The sick Hinjuns PROUDLY sing of their SHAMEFUL traits.....Instead of commiting suicide, they sing about their cowardess thus,
``Hum Ous Desh kay waasi hain, jahan Gandhi nay Danda khaya tha...``
It should be Choopa tha (of British).... is more true. He chooped and the Hinjuns were sodomized; Alas, they had orgasms from the sodomization....What lowly race. THOO!
``Hum Ous Desh kay waasi hain, jahan Gandhi nay Danda khaya tha...``
It should be Choopa tha (of British).... is more true. He chooped and the Hinjuns were sodomized; Alas, they had orgasms from the sodomization....What lowly race. THOO!
#8 Posted by ali_1 on October 3, 2005 11:17:20 am
Gandhi has been a successful marketing story for Injuns for two reasons:
Firstly, Gora Public is intrigued by the exotic.... why would a leader refuse to clothe, insist that he has to sleep with his nieces and has to keep the family goat in the family room....?!?
Secondly, Gora Sahib loved the non-violent uncle tom who hurt himself rather than hurt the saab, memsaab or baba log. Gora saab loved to ``play`` moralistic/humanistic and loved to display his concern for the well being of the native..... so that all the anglo indians, parsees, ICS brown sahibs and other priviliged hanger ons could clap with teary eyes if some morsel was handed out to the native (all because naked fakir was fasting unto death and gora saab took pity or his heart melted.... yeah sure!)
Would India have won freedom without a violent struggle a. la. Algeria if there hadn`t bee WWII? I think the answer is NO, even if Gandhi had remained naked, milked his nieces and slept with his goat for the rest of his life....... He had performed those stunts after WWI without success.
Firstly, Gora Public is intrigued by the exotic.... why would a leader refuse to clothe, insist that he has to sleep with his nieces and has to keep the family goat in the family room....?!?
Secondly, Gora Sahib loved the non-violent uncle tom who hurt himself rather than hurt the saab, memsaab or baba log. Gora saab loved to ``play`` moralistic/humanistic and loved to display his concern for the well being of the native..... so that all the anglo indians, parsees, ICS brown sahibs and other priviliged hanger ons could clap with teary eyes if some morsel was handed out to the native (all because naked fakir was fasting unto death and gora saab took pity or his heart melted.... yeah sure!)
Would India have won freedom without a violent struggle a. la. Algeria if there hadn`t bee WWII? I think the answer is NO, even if Gandhi had remained naked, milked his nieces and slept with his goat for the rest of his life....... He had performed those stunts after WWI without success.
#7 Posted by mohar11 on October 3, 2005 11:15:11 am
Re: # 5 kaura
Don`t be so harsh on the old fool :) He wasn`t that bad....
But I understand why you are so mad at him ....
Don`t be so harsh on the old fool :) He wasn`t that bad....
But I understand why you are so mad at him ....
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