The Naked Fakir

Nowhere during the process of casting slurs at Gandhi do we think of him as a human being.Some of us tend to find scapegoats for the failures experienced by us as a nation today, some of us do not even think that far and just think of his policies as the signs of an old man`s impotence. I too believe that Gandhi was not a Mahatma, because I do not believe in the sanctity of the word, and I too agree that Gandhi had no place in the India of today surrounded by hostile neighbours and arms races, he would have been a burden on the national decision makers, but for what it`s worth, I do think that Gandhi was a great man, he was one of the greatest contributors to forge a movement from a random motion, and he was true to his principles, besides being one of the greatest leader of men.If you can find one more person of that kind in Indian history, that would be the time to rewrite history.Gandhi bashing has become a sort of idle passtime for us, like swatting flies, cursing the government, we want blood, we want grenades, we want to hear of the bloody firangis being crushed like flies in the thundering rush of a charge led by the likes of Bhagat Singh and Subhash Chandra Bose, but great men as they were, India did not, and does not have the power of self control necessary to sustain a violent freedom struggle, and even as we plagiarise Gandhi today, I see scrawled on the walls of my college slogans like `Netaji Subhash will return to save the nation` written by a band of boys high on mescaline, I am forced to think, is that the height of impotence and cowardice or not ? Subhash Chandra Bose did his bit, he is probably dead and ash now, he was a normal man and not Jesus to be resurrected, he will return to save the country, what are we doing meanwhile, are we some sort of passengers who do not have to pay for the ride ? Pick from your favourite freedom fighters, pick Bhagat Singh or Subhash Chandra Bose for their (imagined) bloodthirst and dialogue delivery, leave your judgement to the likes of RajKumar Santoshi, ask Leo Mattel to produce mass manufactured action figures for Khudiram Bose or Ram Prasad Bismil, and make Gandhi the butt of all our jokes. That is what we are reduced to today.

no where in your article you mention the reason behind `` Gandi`s esape from south africa``

if he was so non violent type of guy then why didn`t he protest and protected black africans of south africa just like nelson mandela or coz he was selfish and wanted the power of HIS people

I am trying to understand the real reason for knee jerk anger at Gandhi shown by some of the mentally challenged posters on this board. Is it due to your feeling that Gandhi`s strategy of non-violent opposition is an ineffective approach or are there some other reasons for your anger at him. If it is the former, then I cannot tell you how retarded that line of thinking is. There are two major examples in modern history that show the effectiveness of his approach. I am talking of course about Civil rights movement in US and ANC struggle in south africa. How in the world would you guys miss these facts. For his given circumstances, Gandhi followed a very effective way to achieve his ``objectives``.

Now I agree that his tactics wouldn`t have worked against enemies such as Nazis or hordes of Muhammadan army running across hindu kush mountains.... and he himself admitted that fact in an interview. But his was definitely an effective technique against a less than maniacal enemies.

I only wish that idiotic jehadis take a cue from history`s examples and follow a pragmatic approach in Palestine and Iraq. But given the idiotic psuedo-macho culture and self induced semi-retardedness I know that will never happen. How sad.

He accepted it? Like, was there a crowning ceremony of sorts? :)

May be, you mean that he stopped protesting against it after a while.

Don`t need to ...

There was NO Mahatma.. only Gandhi.

Re: # 224

did you know, i found out that when tagore gave him that title he refused to acknowledge it, but later in 47 did accept it and all the problems associated with it.

Re: # 224

what happened to those fiery replies and cut&paste ?

you are entitled to your views. fine with me.

anyway, did you find anything from naidu on gandhi (about women)

also, did you explain what see meant by ``millions spent to keep..``, just curious

Still no comparison between a 19 year old foul mouthed kid and a 40 year old Mahatma Barrister

Yes.. Soyasauce... more personal attacks because you can`t defend indefensible.

Re: # 222

manto

read 221, now you understand the difference in gandhi and mahatma.

Re: # 218

GANDHI THE PRISONER
A comparison of prison experiences and conditions of
Mahatma Gandhi and Nelson Mandela in South Africa(1)
by Nelson Mandela



During his imprisonment in Pretoria, all his fellow prisoners were Africans (Natives as they were then referred to, even by ourselves), and they, seeing him so different from them, were curious to know what he was doing in prison. Had he stolen, or dealt in liquor?

He explained that he had refused to carry a pass. They understood that perfectly well. ``Quite right,`` they said to him, ``the white people are bad.`` Gandhi had been initially shocked that Indians were classified with Natives in prison; his prejudices were quite obvious, but he was reacting not to ``Natives``, but criminalised Natives.

He believed that Indians should have been kept separately. However, there was an ambivalence in his attitude for he stated,

``It was, however, as well that we were classed with the Natives. It was a welcome opportunity to see the treatment meted out to Natives, their conditions (of life in gaol), and their habits.``

All in all, Gandhi must be forgiven those prejudices and judged in the context of the time and the circumstances. We are looking here at the young Gandhi, still to become Mahatma, when he was without any human prejudice, save that in favour of truth and justice.

Re: # 218

manto:

can you produce gandhis racist attitude on blacks after he became mahatma, mind you he wasn`t one in 1908.
as specified previously, gandhi in africa was different than gandhi later, in india. thats what you are not comprehending (knowingly).
as several have told you gandhi evolved, his thought process changed. If he was not thrown out may be he would have never returned to india.

Re: # 218
Correction - foulmouthed, misogynist :)
Another correction - it was NOT a comparison
Are you going to be arguing in Urdu whe you pass the bar? I hope so. English doesn`t seem to serve you well.

PS: God forbid... I`d rather die than be compared to gandhi...

Please read the post again... I am arguing that since you are unwilling (quite justifiably) to forget that at age 19, I, no Mahatma, abused Hamidm`s wife... you infact want to debate it ...

And yet you ask me to forget that Gandhi espoused the most racist views at age 40, and views which he clearly did not dissociate himself from... and not discuss that?

You see the hypocrisy?

Re: # 216
Yasser, I`m reminding you to see how you were/are a product of your environment. That goes for pretty much everyone.
On the racism charge, if you put the interests of your group ahead of everyone else`s that`s implied racism. I grant you that Gandhiji was blind to the sufferings of the native South Africans. He was attached to the indians there and saw himself as belonging to a quasi- ruling class by virtue of his educational and financial status. He got a rude lesson in how wrong he was when he was thrown out of the train compartment as a blackie.
Where he changed was in recognizing the common humanity of us all. Despite what Ambedkar had to say - and I can cite a lot of dalit leaders who agreed with Gandhiji - he was the most influential uppercaste hindu to militate against the oppression of the dalits. Could he have gone further? Surely. Did he go far? Certainly.

Soyasauce....

So now it is a personal attack on me because you can`t defend Gandhi ? Its not about a 19 year old (here even 40 year old Indians abuse my entire family so lets not go there)... and what he said to Hamidm 6 years ago....

If Gandhi evolved... we have no evidence of that.. lets leave it at that.