Gandhi in The Handmaid’s Tale

``unadulterated jealousy due to his world wide popularity (#1).``

Pardesi, there may be other reasons. One can`t be sure. From what one knows of Gandhi, he himself would have advised patience.

(Although, one wonders if that kind of patience is possible for most normal human beings ...that`s why few of us are Gandhians)

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Soysauce, I have known some pretty khoosat (do you know that word?) brahmin village folks (all thankfully dead now). The only thing that ever made them ashamed of their casteism, and practically tied their tongues, was Gandhi`s name. None of them ever allied themselves with `Hindu`` parties (BJP/Jansangh), all because the RSS had killed ``Gandhi Mahatma.``

Those old men, sadly traditional and casteist, but still essentially good, are all gone now, as has the magic of Gandhi`s name in shaping our behaviors and our thoughts.

Nehru, Gandhi`s protege par excellence, was the first to reject many of Gandhi`s views as `unreal.` And we - the proud inhabitants of the Modern India for which Nehru worked so tirelessly - have ourselves moved along far enought to have rejected (or begun to reject) even Nehru as archaic.

Thus, for many Indians old man Gandhi is at least two intellectual and moral iterations `out-of-date.`

So much so that his name now moves more people outside of India than it does within the boundaries of his own land. But that`s because there are individuals who strongly believe that, for all our wisdom and all our sciences, in many key ways, we as humans still haven`t progressed too far ahead of that irrational and archaic old fool Gandhi.

Were he alive today, that other giant of the times, that great critic of Gandhi, that most important maker of India`s constitution, Babasahed Ambedkar, one suspects, would have agreed with that latter assessment.

.......ten years down the line , Yasser will still be exposing Gandhi on internet message boards....

``Couple years down the line - YLH will come around preening like a fool he is and saying ``Oh, I was young then, I made mistakes``..... and people here will break into a big applause....Dost-Mitter will have tears in his eyes.... everybody will have a big hug.....``

Couple of years down the line...I`ll have a job in IBM or MS , and Yasser will continue to be `aspiring lawyer , trained economist and part-time journalist`...and needless to say , full time future leader of Pakistan.

Gandhi was a giant and we mortals are like blind little fellows trying to figure out an elephant. He has to be viewed from a distance to see the total picture. Here are my two cents on various dimensions of his personality:

1. A world class moral leader with innovative approach to issues - A+
The world sees and respects this dimension.

2. A great Hindu reformer (e.g. untouchables) – A+
All Hindus appreciate his contributions.

3. Pre-independence Political leadership to win independence – A+
No Indian or intellectually honest Pakistani can question that.

4. Develop a sense of religious tolerance amongst Indians - A+
All minorities and broad minded Hindus respect him for this.

5. Provide leadership to deal with Muslim league / Jinnah’s divisive agenda – F

My family suffered from the partition. We were uprooted and had to start from scratch in 47 and therefore we were no fans of him. However as I grew up and was able to understand Gandhi’s tremendous overall contribution, I am in awe of his personality.

Why young Pakistanis need to tear him down after all these years when he has not hurt them, Muslims or Pakistan at all?

My guess - unadulterated jealousy due to his world wide popularity (#1).

Re: # 1204 net
//....This article has ended up as a shouting match and I don’t think anything is going to change further. ....//

Actually - a shouting match is the minimum you need for any change to occur anywhere..... You need to apply force to change anything .... and stagnant gutter that paki mentality is - it needs super force to budge .... shouting match is just the beginning....

But pakis will come around.... I mean - earlier it used to be Kashmir, but you don`t see pakis holding forth on that topic any more, do you? [except for Behram, the Dhimmi] ..... Now pakis have got Gandhi to beat up on..... that will pass too..... all in good time.....

Couple years down the line - YLH will come around preening like a fool he is and saying ``Oh, I was young then, I made mistakes``..... and people here will break into a big applause....Dost-Mitter will have tears in his eyes.... everybody will have a big hug.....

And then YLH will go back and pick up another ``contentious`` topic.... The cycle will continue.... Chowk will stay afloat....

To all indians:

It’s for certain that this article has unearthed a lot of misgivings. Participants have come with a fixed state of mind to pursue their own agenda and beliefs.

The myth of educated, liberal Muslims/Pakis just remained that. This article on Gandhi was not a critical study of him but a malicious campaign to deride and mock at him and subsequently Hindus and India. People came with selective quotes and flimsy reasons like his nakedness to his butt-ugliness to laugh at him. Many had not even read him but were sure that he was anti-women! Some even dragged India’s internal issues like Kashmir, Nagaland to buttress their opinion. Many thought that it would be a great tribute to Jinnah and would greatly enhance his value and contribution to Pakistan and safety of minorities in Pakistan. Many were irked by the title “Mahatma” as he was called by people as varied as Rabindranath Tagore to a common peasant. For them he was just a failed lawyer, fascist Hindu, a castiest and an exotic personality which the west propped up.

Gandhi once said that his life is an open book. It is open to everyone to criticize or learn from his experiences. Gandhi’s method of opposing suppression was not accepted by all and is still questioned by many. Many of his thoughts regarding various issues are considered passé but he is still considered a giant for his contribution to the Civil Disobedience Movement and humanism.

What I observed about Indians was the pride and unity with which they stood for Gandhi’s principles against the Muslim/Paki attack. Even a hardliner like Gujju who has often spoken against Gandhian principles /Congress could not sit idle as the country’s icon was spit at.

This article has ended up as a shouting match and I don’t think anything is going to change further. It seems the poison in the minds of people will take a long time to recede.

In the end I think, Savarkar/Gowalkar has a better understanding of Muslims than Gandhi had. The Mahatma who died seeking rights for the Muslims has himself has become their victim.

Re: # 1198 HP
//...Why be so upset over a m0r0n?....//

Well - for one, it generates 1000+ odd posts and breaks chowk record ..... and it`s fun to see you pakis do the monkey-dance with ``gandhi bad, gandhi bad`` rants.... everytime somebody says ``Mahatma Rocks`` - you pakis give out a collective high-pitch shrill as if somebody pushed a hot-rod right thru your back-sides.........

+++

//....I would talk about Gandhi’s politics...//

Gandhi’s politics? What politics? Didn`t I tell you that the guy was a m0r0n?.....

Anycase - who cares? What difference does it make? .....To indians or people around the world?...... Somebody called him ``Mahatma`` and people around the world went ga-ga over it....[even his opponents, I heard that even jinnah called him Mahatma].... so why should we complain? I mean - India gets free publicity....

Except you pakis, of course.... ``Mahatma`` title has given you pakis a big burn up your collective a$$es - you got to find a cure.....Like I said - we would like to help, but not much .... we can release some more water via baglighar - would that help?

Re: # 1185
D-M ji,
lifelong mission of non-violence and hindu-muslim unity ended in one of the bloodiest communal chapters in history

Don`t you mean ended with? Even then, you could make the statement you made only if you were seeking miracles. Gandhiji was ultimately reconciled to Partition something that has taken most other politicians several more decades.
His legacy endures in India, notwithstanding ``modern`` indians who consider it fashionable to deride him. More than any dalit leader could, Gandhiji sensitized indians to the caste problem. In villages there were high-minded individuals who followed Gandhiji and dined with lower castes/dalits as a renunciation of caste divisions. Some married widows removing some of the taboo associated with widowhood. Anti-caste and gender equality laws have everything to do with Gandhiji.
The greatest thing about him was he tried to live by example rather than by diktat. And he went through a very public life where he shared every thought he had and every (absurd) thing he had attempted. He believed in airing his dirty laundry in public. It takes enormous moral courage to do that - something that the other gentlemen in your list could not claim to have done.
He is an inspiration because he showed that you need not fear your self - that you can follow the inner voice wherever it may lead. Public exposure acts as a corrective. He also showed how an ordinary person can transform oneself (in public view).
He is out there for his critics to criticize and his students to praise but none can claim to have discovered anything new about him. It`s all a matter of interpretation.

#1178

``Hurray for Shakuntala!``

the Motorola CTO`s name is Padmashree Warrier, she is an IIT-D and Cornell grad.

http://www.siliconindia.com/tech/tech_pgtwo.asp?newsno=18034&newscat=Technology

thanks aisha for opening HPs eyes.

behram:

this is what i wrote in #1158

``so it seems according to you the only problem you see with gandhi is his anti-women stance.

now the burden falls on you to prove that, not on me to disprove it. ``

then you write in # 1166

``Respectfully, how am I suppose to prove anything when this whole article on this site was unable to do that? ``

then later in the post you write:

``I did however call him anti-women, which you have not, as of yet disproved. ``

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so in short, you say that the entire article has not been able to prove that gandhi was anti-women. but you still call him anti-women (without any facts) and want me to prove that he was not anti-women.

does it make any sense to you?

1194 by mohar11

“All Indians, hereby declare that Gandhi was a m0r0n, NOT a Mahatma”

Accepted. Why be so upset over a m0r0n?

“Apple will continue to raise huge-a$$ billboards with ``think different`` and all that.... what are you going to do about that?”

Nothing! All Apple was showing that if you take your clothes off, you will look “different” like your favorite m0r0n in dhoti tried to look.

I feel sorry for you that you think it is an honor when in reality Apple was making fun of Gandhi. Reading between the lines clearly is not your forte. Stop being such a poor sod your love for a m0r0n notwithstanding!

If I were you, I would talk about Gandhi’s politics and not attempt to bamboozle anyone with ignorance and incense.

Re: # 1187 YLH
//.... Indians like you would resort to abuses having no argument...//

``Abuses`` are for your own good son :) - you don`t like the Indian Abuse now - but later you would realize it was for your own benefit.....

See - Gandhi needs no argument, no defence..... He is all set... he has already made it in his life[and death]..... He has booked his place in history for all times to come - as a person who thought different, did different, made a huge contribution to human civilization and evolution .... he invented the power of non-violence ....

Or so the world thinks and accepts..... I know it`s bullsh!t, you know it`s bullsh!t.... but there ain`t a damn thing you can do about it....Gandhi is too big for you... you can`t dent him, destroy him, defile him.... he is beyond your reach....

Son - You have to understand that and accept that .... that`s the way life is.... it will be hard but you have to do it..... The Indian Abuse is for that purpose - so that you may finally lump it and move on and do something in your miserable life.....

It`s all for your own good.... believe me....

behram:

``I did however call him anti-women, which you have not, as of yet disproved. ``

why do you call him anti-women. give me facts.

Re: # 1188 ana

So Ahura Mazda is the good guy.... How does he relate to the Fire god, supposed to be the big boss as far as parsi religion is concerned....

Re: # 1192 HP
//it is time for Indians to....accept that Gandhi was no ``Mahatma`` and he was a politician with all the trappings of a flawed human being....//

Done..... All Indians, hereby declare that Gandhi was a m0r0n, NOT a Mahatma..... Do you want this declaration duly signed on legal papers? We can do that too.... And then we will petition the entire world to stop calling him Mahatma Gandhi.... bring down his statues all over the world... burn all his books, speeches etc.....

We can do all that, if that`s what it takes to cool the perpetual burn in collective paki-a$$es ... will that be sufficient or do we need to call some heavy-duty fire-brigrade to hose down the ``mahatma burn`` that you pakis are nursing for last 70 odd years?.......

I mean - what`s wrong with you pakis? [well, never mind I asked the question]..... Right from the beginning Indians have been telling you - Gandhi was no Mahatma... he was a jack-a$$ in many ways.... In modern India - he is nobody`s hero .... he is a laughing stock, for all practical purposes....

Morevoer - even if indians disown Gandhi - the world will not .... he is darling of people around the world..... what are you pakis going to do about that? Apple will continue to raise huge-a$$ billboards with ``think different`` and all that.... what are you going to do about that?

You can`t fight gandhi - he si too big for you .... we indians would like to help but we can only do so much....