Turks: The Bad Part

Nicely written article here. But I need to ask something about what you wrote:

Recently, I bought a Toyota Corolla and a large number of Turks told me that I should have bought either a Renault, Citroen, Opel or some other European car for the same price. After a while I gave up explaining that Toyota had better reliability, comfort and safety ratings than the brands they recommended.

Did they recommend Volvo or and Audi? ^_^

Fenasi,

Thank you for the article. Interesting perspective from someone who has studied there. I have been doing a lot of research on Turkey lately because my family and I are taking a vacation there this summer. I have always found Turks to be pleasant and cultured, right from the bakers in Saudi Arabia to classmates in the USA. Unfortuantely these encounters have been brief and not sustained, something I hope to rectify this summer. Having said that, I think Ataturk did a great thing by trying to westernize his country by changing the script, separating mosque and state etc. It must have taken extreme foresight and courage to change traditional Turkish society from being protector of worldwide Islam to a society for the Turks. Many fundoo Muslims are against Ataturk because reportedly he decreed that the Quran be read in Turkish instead of Arabic. I do not know if this is true, but if this is, just imagine the tremendous vision and courage of the man in going against orthodoxy. This would have enabled Turks to really understand the Quran unlike the vast majority of non-Arab Muslims and grasp the essence of Islam instead of blindly following the lead of mullahs. I think Turkey is reaping the benefits of Ataturk`s leadership and vision today.

From what I have read, their economy is not doing too badly. Though cities like Bursa are losing their quaint charm due to industrialization, I think Turkey will come through for the better. Turkish cities have been able to absorb rural migrants, avoiding the scenario in developing countries where rural labor settle and erect sprawling slums leading to increase in crime and other societal problems. Poverty of the like found in many Muslim countries is not found in Turkey. They are self sufficient in food and have a booming tourist industry. How many other 97+% Muslim majority countries have such a booming tourist industry? It is a reflection of the sense of security tourists feel in exploring Turkey. I am sure other Muslim majority countries are just as hospitable but the prevailing political situations do not inspire the same confidence among tourists. All credit to Turkey then.

regards

#28 by ahmedmadani

C`mon. Don`t get stuck up in colours. Rainbow is all different colours but starting from the same place, going in the same direction, and ending up in the same place. There`s no difference.

Rgds

Re: # 25 Turks are inferior to Pakistanis and Indians.
Pakistan is not white still major Nato friend of USA while Turkey just carrying weight of Europeans.
They still do not know making atomic bombs. Even though white still they want to be Wanabe European and they drink alcohol and eat pork and lard pig fat mixed breads. It is strange they are white still backward. They have history , they went up to Vinnena and put terror in hearts of white chritians so much there the famous music ( westen) symphony, Turkish death March. They are full of envy and lasosy and greed of Arabs where american presidents go on begging for black liquid gold. They are not liking Arabs as they kicked them and they are filthy rich. Turks are recist against Africans while Arabs are mix of turks and dark skined africans so they like dark colored people and got great strength like blacks of America. Now even white iranian have lots black blood as one can see habashis in Abadan and they are considered inferior Iranis.
I wonder why to go to backward country like turk from Pakistan I think many feel to just find gora chamadi wife as he feels his daughters will have no hard time to find nice husband. They are white and that is advantage but how one can become white just going to turkey land. Anyway its not good weather there too hot and cold. They hate mr. Hussain as he used to have lots of oil but he will be dead soon as brave tiger but Turks have become slave of usa.
IRP has done much better in human rights, industry, war industry and is able to put up with India on equal basis though they have more people. But Pakistan has racial advantage of being cream colored compared to Indians. Also mighty warriers blood mixing has made a special man in pakistan who is sturdy and and hard working. Even though has not got gifts from USA like turkey is more advanced for sure. Pakistan has produced nobel prize and scientists like Dr. Khan turkey is no where.

I just wonder what turks think about indians a dark brown race of polygot people who are dark like rats but far advanced than turks. It is some times shock to see turks not advanced as dark Indians. Real white people have some good intelligent people who control world by intelluctual power . In between is problem. Even in India cream colored+ little coal mix north Indians are generally no good in brain dept. Like afghan are no like European but darker they are jungi people and they are in state of mind. While dark colored people have no complex of darkness they are at ease with their color and so their brain works better. Pakistan+North Indian are agricultural people with culture as agricultural that is reflected in like flying kite or holi etc or Bhangara as music. All Turkey to North India people hyas not ``color`` problem and Turkey land must have accute problem so these retards and just waste time in childhood how to marry whiter skinned person and when parents all time wasted in how to find whiter boy for dark daughter and and raise color cream complexion by mixing whiter blood. All stupid time goes in feeling they are white monkeys. No do not blame me but at heart pakistani expak marries white buffolow from usa but will not marry dark colored wheatish beautiful boy or girl beautiful like dear with dark dovey eyes. Real pakistani and India at heart wants his daughter or boy marry white person person so grand children are milk white. And many time results are not good as children still look like deshi and people can easily find blood mixing as dark deshi color has more dominence and mixture is dark chakolate. Any way India will go ahead as they have dark colored [people and they have spared from such complex so they mind is free to think about things. As these people smart and that can definitely has Indian advantage. Even in our country we know all important people are Indian urdus with dark color and all retards dominate in feudal cream colored Punjabis and sindhis and they just want to punish them as their retard children can not stand against MQM followers so retards started Urban and rural divide to punish dark people. Our country lost last chance when we lost dark skinned bengalis, that was last hope but retards wanted to get them out out so retards will be lords of country. I like General he has shopwn place to retard gora prime minister. General should whip retards if he wants to improve avaerage IQ. Any way India has dark people and has advantaged on creamy racist retards. It is sad but true.

#24 by nasah

Nasah you are right. Ata-turd threw out the baby with the bath water ...

#21 by SR

SR I acknowledge your argument fully re the `greying populations` of EU and the apparent impossibility of meeting social welfare commitments with retirees with less and less taxpayers in the long term. This problem is not only of EU but all of developed world including Japan outside of USA (immigration policies, low-birth rates, falling apart family systems and so forth). But my dear SR, they have other alternatives to solve this problem. Let me make the following points:

1) Globalisation ensures unchecked (indeed welcomed) outsourcing of the lowest value-added, labour intensive, generic, and mass produced but necessary goods and services for the developed world to countries with large pools of low/semi skilled, low paid labour force; while the capital intensive, highly value-added, proprietary production is handled in-house by small pools of a highly skilled, highly paid labour force. Generous investments in R&D at the same time retains Europe`s cutting edge, while globalisation at the same time ensures that such value addition cannot now take place anywhere else.

2) The continuous value addition and wage growth means higher fiscal revenues for the EU countries. Every single knowledge worker of EU contributes more to the tax base than a hundred waiters imported from Turkey in, say, Germany, and thus to the retirement plans of a greying population.

3) Take Japan which has the most serious problem of them all. Japan is hit not only by one of the lowest birth rates in the world ... but ... also the highest life expectancy. Today, Japan`s proportion of elderly, at 19%, is the highest in the world, but, forecast to reach almost 30% by 2025. So what did Japan do to compensate for this? What it actually did is a lesson in long-term strategy. It willingly handed over ALL it`s captive world market for low-end consumer electronics, household white goods and automotive products ten years ago to Korea and China, while it moved up yet further in the high-end value addition chain. It didn`t import any workers from anywhere to keep making the cheap stuff; it just either outsourced it to Malaysia or Thailand or simply abandoned the low-end market. Thus, One container load of merchandise from China or Korea is of less value now than a small consignment from a Japanese worker. And they started with making plastic toys remember? It wasn`t that long ago.

The name of the game is value-addition. Globalisation effectively monopolises that.

Above are merely the economic realities. There is another factor which I consider overriding above them all ... and that is the mindset. I have occasion to meet with the senior ECB officials from time to time. Whenever asked the question of Turkey`s membership of EU, their body language is sufficient answer.

Thus, the lure of Europe is a carrot dangled only to keep Turkey from drifting towards Ialmaic radicalism, which they have and always had a high propensity of doing, and never really meant anything other than that.

Rgds

i have asked this question a few times to urstruly. the middle eastern countries blame western colonization for their current siege mentality and general angst. ottomans colonized the entire populance from basra to berberistan until 1918 for 400 years...so that influence ought to be a more lasting legacy. why is this legacy ommitted in the narration of the middle-eastern hagiography according to the ummah.

good article -- with factual analysis

Turks are ``Adhay teetar Adhay batair`` -- neither Europeans nor Asiatic -- this is what happens to country that straddles the two continents -- and depends more on Brawn than on Brain........

Turks are enamored and enchanted by the technology of POWER of the west but never cared for the values that made the West what it is today -- their Sultans were nothing more than the annual plunderers of Europe --

every year during summer the Turkish Sultans will assemble an army of fortune hunters and head westward on the annual expedition to invade plunder and catch slaves -- all over Europe -- no wonder the East Europeans especially the Greeks the Bulgars and the Serbs despise them to this day -- because they bore the brunt of their conquests and reconquests every year --

in the Arab world and the Muslim world -- up to the last Sultan Abdul Hamid -- the Turks enjoyed their position as Khalifatul-Muslimeen of all Islamic countries and Muslims in general all over the world -- considered themselves the custodians of Kaaba -- ruled Egypt and Middle East like medieval colonial power -- doing nothing to improve the lot of the people of those countries except using the brute force....

....because the Turks themselves were medieval....

the Greeks and the Arabs rightly complain that the country responsible for the decline of their culture, scholarship and past grandeur -- were the Turks -- they claim that where ever the Turks went they deprived those countries of their civilization, education, fine arts and scientific progress.....

because unlike the Western colonialists the backward Turkish colonials had nothing to offer to the colonized countries towards modernity......

Kemal Ataturk`s greatest contribution was that he secularized the once deeply religious country -- separated religion from State with the zeal that bordered on almost fanaticism --

but in the very hasty process Ataturk threw the baby with the tub water -- he threw thousand year history and culture and traditions of a very traditional community and made the Turks a past-less history-less community overnight......floating anchorless between the two very traditional and different continents..

...a little like post 47 Pakistan --

and that was Ataturk`s greatest folly -- that sowed the seeds of the failure of Turkish society to neither assimilate with the West nor with the East.......a shallow community with no past and no future.....except plenty of brawn not much of brain.....

......returning BACK to Islamism rather than going forward to essence of Europeanism...

Fenasi,

Kizilbash (regardless of their current geographic location) don`t consider Sunni Turkish very civilized or westernized at all. Turks are considered one narrow minded bastards. You guys are called ``Turke budzad`` among Kizilbash community. I am a third generation Pakistani Kizilbash.

haideri

#13 zeemax
u make it sound so easy. Empire building aint gonna work anymore not even for the USA.

Re: # 13 zeemax {``...Turks ... have realized what the europeans really think ... not letting them into their little club with Turks humiliated and bending over backwards ... Europe will never let them in...``}

Europeans, particularly central Europeans, are indeed racists in this regard. But NEVER is a very long time and its also a very strong word. I would modify it to say ``for the time being`` instead of ``never``... Reality has a way of raising its ugly head and the reality of Europe is its impossible demography. European Union has no choice but to eventually let Turkey in... If they don`t do that the EU cannot and will not survive even to the end of the century. Turkey, with its young population, is the only choice an aging EU has in order to survive. Austria`s continued refusal to let Turkey into the EU is simply unsustainable for longer than another decade at most. To keep Turkey out much beyond that is a mathematical impossibility. To do so will spell the end of EU.

...SR

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#10 by tahmed32 on March 18, 2006 10:51am PT
in other words, then, Turks are like people everywhere else. (except indians on chowk, who have made chowk a cesspool - as evidenced by #8 and #9).
]

The dung beetle has spoken.

Not bad. You missed their ``attitude`` towards the greek. Is there a parallel between tuki-greek relationship and paki-hindu? ottomans were kind of outsiders who came to anatolia and conquered byzentine (eastern roma) empire like the mughals and the greeks, with their stubborn old civilization held on to their ways (no, i am not talking about love of lambs)

Turks you met seem to be just like people in all other countries to the dot.

``....Turks have a freewheeling animosity towards Arabs. Arabs are seen as a dirty, uneducated, chauvinistic, intolerant, extremely religious, totalitarian, hypocritical and bigoted..........``


This is how Afghans see Pakis...with one addition - Cowards

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many even call Pakis Hindus

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bcs of their conversions.

#14 by Salim_Chauhan

[Ram Bhayya,
She must have felt very secure confiding in you as you sat next to her in your high-heeled shoes, your shocking pink shirt and pea green pants, while you waved your polished fingernails to shoo away the Paki gawkers. ]


I would rather not go into the details of HOW I was sitting next to her.