Samosey mein aloo: why not Laloo?

#113 by drlokraj

[I am not defending Laoo`s corruption, but are you sure that before him,Bihar was best governed state and there was no law and order problems and corruption? I still remmber, the worst news of caste based killings used to come from Bihar even when there was no Laloo.]

Doctor Sahib,

I agree Bihar`s slide started well before the Laloo raj and I`ve stated that in my previous post. But I`m sure you`ll agree with me that it accentuated during his reign.

For god`s sake here is a man out who is out on bail in the fodder scam, who`s become the union railway minister through blackmail and runs his state by proxy, and we`re talking about his rise as a phenomenon?

#111,
harish_hyd

I am not defending Laoo`s corruption, but are you sure that before him,Bihar was best governed state and there was no law and order problems and corruption? I still remmber, the worst news of caste based killings used to come from Bihar even when there was no Laloo.

Here`s a news item on the legacy of corruption and mismanagement left behind by Lalu in Jharkhand.

Production cost of one egg - Rs 77

Excerpt:

``The animal husbandry department had hit the headlines almost 10 years ago due to the multibillion-rupee fodder scam in undivided Bihar. Money was swindled from the department in the name of fodder for animals.

``The scam named bigwigs like Railway Minister Lalu Prasad, who is facing five cases, and former Bihar chief minister Jagganth Mishra, who is also facing five cases.``

#99 by drlokraj

[Dont conclude that I personally have high hopes from Laloo, but at least he is symbolic of a change and the change has to start from somewhere.Those at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder, do not go on the upper padestals overnight.Laloo is a step in that direction.]

Indeed Laloo`s rise as a phenomenon is worth talking about. But when we talk about his phenomenal rise, can we ignore the fact that under his rule, Bihar has become nothing more than a large cowshed? Can we ignore his misdemeanors, corruption, and appeasement of minorities and his henchmen? Can we ignore the fact that Bihar`s decline from being the best-governed state after Independence was accentuated exponentially by his misrule over the last 15 years?

Is it possible to selectively discuss an aspect of his life without casting so much as a glance on the damage he has done to the 8 crore or so people of his state and Indian democracy at large?

Re: #108 by bongdongs

I think what you WILL get is anti-hindu/ anti-national types like this Farzana character start questioning ANY claims that point to Ansari`s guilt, or to Neera Yadav`s past track record.

When the establishment is Mulayam Sing Yadav, fiercely ``anti-establishment`` Farzana types would suddenly become pro-establishment.

And the other lefty/pseudo-secular/pseudo-intellectual fakes and the spineless dhimmis would follow.

#108

Call it dhimmitude...

This is what causes disillusionment with ``secular`` parties:

In the eastern UP town of Mau Independent MLA Mukhtar Ansari has been inciting violence against Hindu`s in this Muslim dominated district. Violence started few days ago over the Dussera procession. Since Mukhtar Ansari is a Mulayam Singh supporter, Mulayam has gone out of his way to protect him. The district administration is paralysed, as they will not act against Ansari.

After much criticism a 3 person enquiry comission has been established headed by Neera Yadav, a hard-core Mulayam groupie who has had strictures passed against her by the supreme court. Neera Yadav is the infamous winner of the ``most corrupt IAS officer`` title in a poll conducted among UP IAS officers. Now, anybody care to wager if Ansari is going to find mention in this ``investigation``?

Now how is it any different than the BJP going all out to defend Govardhan Zapadia in Gujarat? But, will we see front page editorials in TOI on this? Will we hear Teesta Seetalvad or Arundhati Roy give a lecture on this? Anybody want to wager an amount on that?

for more on Neera Yadav:
http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=79575

ajeya my friend...
how is your wife...still objecting to your pontification on chowk afraid that one of the crazy muslims might hurt you...fret nawt... i have told the local jihadi chapter of new york area to go easy on you coz you are my friend...;)

ps: keep ranting...err keep educating us...

Re: #105 by kaalchakra

Well your wording was inaccurate then.

Ajeya

Gaining right understanding is important in and of itself.

After understanding things as they actually are, one can do whatever one wishes depending upon one`s own concept of what is good, and one`s own internal integrity.

Re: #103


[One can more effectively oppose a political party/movement by understanding it. ]

So let`s see if I understand this correctly:


Step 1) Try to understand it, in order to more effectively oppose it (the GOAL, so to speak).

Step 2) After understanding, there would be two conclusions:

a) There`s nothing bad about the political party/movement.

b) There`s plenty bad about the political party/movement.

Step 3) Now use your understanding to oppose it more effectively (regardless of whether it is a or b ).




This reminds me of a line in Arundhati Roy`s ``God of Small Things``:

The christian missionaries used to study Hindu religious texts in order to more effectively denounce it. (Paraphrasing here)

drlokraj

``pre mughal sanskriti means the full fledged caste system within Hiduism as well..meaning thereby that nobody like Laloo or Mulayam may even think of becoming leaders.``

BJP is now chockful of leaders hailing from the so-called lower-castes.

One can more effectively oppose a political party/movement by understanding it.

Re: #99 by drlokraj

In this post, this character mentions ``caste-based politics`` several times - as his primary reason for his anti-BJP stance. NOWHERE in any BJP agenda have I ever found any caste-based approach to ANYTHING. Same goes for the RSS. (If there is, I`d like someone to SHOW me). In fact, what I find is EXACTLY the OPPOSITE. Condemnation of caste-based discriminations, and participation and involvement in BOTH parties from ALL the castes.

Also, this character mentions that bringing back Hindutva automatically means caste-based politics. Which of course is a load of garbage. Hinduism, as any serious scholar of hinduism knows, is not BASED on casteism. Rather, casteism is a social phenomenon that evolved over the years (like Weavers in England used to weave, Smiths used to forge etc) based on people`s professions. And it morphed into the self-destructive form it attained. It is such an old religion that already when Buddha was born, it had gotten mired in superstitions and social injustices.

BOTH RSS and BJP have been working against caste-based discriminations.

So this begs the question - WHY is this drlokraj character lying? Well whenever people are consciously lying, they have an agenda. In this case, it is obviously, desperately, to prevent BJP from coming to power at ANY COST. Even if that means lying flat out.

I am relatively new to Chowk, so it seems to me that this individual is either a closet Dalistan fruitcake, or an Islamist. Could be a lefty as well, because lefties lie blindly to rationalize for their failed ``theories``.

DM or any other `cadillac communist`,

I`snt yr philosophy something like, ``He may be a bastard, but at least he`s our bastard.`` And still you people write on and on as if you are better than other`s.

Drlokraj#99:

I agree with you re. the RSS. But as I pointed out in my article on the BJP, political compulsions are forcing tbe moderate elements in the BJP to distance themselves from the RSS. BTW, I believe that while the anti-muslim stance of the RSS remains intact, they seem to have moved away from their casteist posture. As for Laloo not joining the BJP coalition earlier, his votes were not crucial and he was not in the position of a king-maker. Lalu is more shrewd, he would want to exact a bigger price if he were to risk losing part of his support base in Bihar.

#98 DMji,
With due regards, I wish to differ slightly, from your point of view.
While, you may be partly right in your analysis in the first paragraph, but wrong in the second one.Let me explain how:

Yes, diehard opponents of BJP want to eliminate it from the Indian Political scene, like the diehard admirers of BJP want no other party to govern India ever.So, far, understandable, but what is not understandable is how moderate Hindus can hope that BJP leaves its religious agenda and become something like Rep party of US? This is nothing more than a wishful thinking, and may be just reminiscent of sympathy with BJP at unconscious level. I am saying so, because at least you know that BJP is nothing but political arm of RSS whose main aim is, not current political power(though that makes things much simpler for them), but, to bring back the Hindu sanskriti of pre-mughal times. Every muslim is still symbolic of invasion for them, and pre mughal sanskriti means the full fledged caste system within Hiduism as well..meaning thereby that nobody like Laloo or Mulayam may even think of becoming leaders.

Secondly, its not appropriate to compare Laloo with likes of CB Naidu or Mamta Bannerjee. CB Naidu displayed oppurtunism by allying with the BJP at centre, because his main opposition in the state was with congress. He did this even though he did not agree with BJP`s communal agenda. In a way, he was the biggest deterrent for BJP,` persual of the hidden agenda.On the other hand, Mamta , does not have any standing in Indiamn Ppolitics, other than just having a nuisance value.Even within anti-left politics in WB, she was a mere leader by exclusion.BJP needed likes of her to support them at the centre.Laloo had the oppurtunity to turn to BJP at that time, but he opposed BJP. What could have stopped Laloo from supporting BJP, if he was that oppurtunist? Also, the phenomenon of Laloo in Bihar is older than the emergence of BJP as a worthwhile political power, which could rule at the centre.

On a separate note, when the even the educated hindutva followers are now not finding any propblem with BJP working on their age old lines, then what problem do they find, if somebody persues caste based politics within Hiduism? The problem for them is again muslims, because they will then become natural supporters of any anti BJP force.
Social inequalities have always been at the base of any change at the political level.....that is the rule of social dialectics and also political economy.So its only the natural process taking shape.In I ndia, the reality of the caste is as important as that of class.

Dont conclude that I personally have high hopes from Laloo, but at least he is symbolic of a change and the change has to start from somewhere.Those at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder, do not go on the upper padestals overnight.Laloo is a step in that direction.