NWFP Demonstrators Fury against No Response from Army

ranjit #143 if you wish to address indian posters only, it seems the logical thing to do would be to go to an indian website, instead of coming to an evil pakistani website. just another example of how you are so clever you even fool yourself.

ylh # i meant ranjit singh. :-) hindvi is indeed a thoughtful, balanced writer.

Re: Various Indian Replies

It is a misconception that Pakistani civilians are innocent, harmless people while it is their big, bad military, mullahs and jihadies who have harmed India. That is sheer nonsense. Pakistani army, mullahs and jihadies are ALL part and parcel of Pakistani society. They come from the Pakistani people. The ordinary Pakistani people have been eager participants in the jihad against India for the past 20 years. They have fully supported the policy of bleeding India by a thousand cuts. They have willingly sent their sons for training and action in Kashmir. They have celebrated the shahadat of their sons when they would be killed by Indian Army. They have celebrated every time India and hindus have been hurt. The Pakistani people have contributed enormous sums of money to keep the jihad going. There are collection boxes at every corner in Pakistan where ordinary people contribute towards jihad. People on this site like Romair have celebrated jihad against India.

So who are we fooling? You think Pakistan has slowed down jihad just because they suddenly like Indians? It is only because of Uncle Sam`s danda, the brave Indian army and our nukes that keeps these animals away from us. Otherwise, they would have no hesitation to burn down Delhi and tear us apart. I am gloating at their misfortune because I know that Pakistani people always wish ill for India and they are always praying that India would somehow break up. They are our sworn enemies and we must never forget that.

The reality is that ever since the first muslim stepped into this subcontinent, we have faced misery at their hands. Every war, conflict and difficulty for a 1000 years is because of this religion and its followers, except during the british period. Islam has been trying to conquer India forever. They got political control for a while but they couldnt buy our souls. If the brits hadnt arrived, we would still be facing their wrath. Even for the past 60 years, we have had non-stop problems from Pakistan. These people will just not let us live in peace and lead our own way of life. So I am very happy that they are facing a catastrophe. Serves them right!! Bhagwan ke ghar mein dher hai, andher nahin.

Tahmed...

Hindvi is a fine gentleman... till I last checked...

Has he said something in particular on here that has bracketed him with Bolta aina?

Romair,

Thanks for digging up comments by Pakistanis in wake of the Gujurat Earthquake tragedy...

It should make a good comparison.

Ofcourse... there are many Indians who have proved themselves to above such petty biases.

dost mittar: i appreciate your attempt to get your countrymen to show some dignity and control their spiteful impulses. there are no doubt many other fine people like you in india. a few spiteful individuals like bolta-aaina and hindvi are getting far more attention than they deserve on this board.

bolta-aina #138: i see that even at this time you are unable to give up your spiteful habits and need to belittle others with making up false claims. i have been following the news, and contrary to your claims in fact outside observers (like the bbc) have noted the great personal efforts being made by pakistanis, military and civilian, in the rescue effort. e.g. i heard the bbc note that pakistani helicopter pilots have been flying beyond the number of hours considered safe to drop urgently needed help and so forth, and i have seen on US tv pakistani c-130`s flying at dangerously low levels in order to drop supplies in remote areas.

the refusal of the pakistan government to accept indian offers to send helicopters seems almost certainly to have been wrong, and that is the only excuse i can think of the spite of individuals like you. this mirrors the nonsense i have seen on the indian press as well (where i have seen the same focus on broadcasting propaganda about pakistanis not caring for kashmiris, than in any concern - of the kind the rest of the world has shown in spades - for the terrible tragedy and the heroic efforts and great sense of national unity with which pakistanis at all levels, inside and outside the government, are going about trying to save lives.

The slow response of Pakistani army in Earthquake in Kashmir is understandable.

One of my aquaintence who is in Indian Army has served in Kashmir and across LOC a few years back. His opinion was that the Pakistani soldiers are ``Seedha and Sachha`` fellows. They just obey the orders from their superiors. The Kashmiris, somehow ,do not enjoy good reputation with both the armies. The personnel of both the armies blame them for their(armies`) hardships in bad terrain and rough weather. Further, they suspect the loyalties of Kashmiris as to whether they want to merge in either of the countries or want independence from both of them. Everybody knows that given a chance, both the Kashmirs would want to get united and become independent.

The same is true for NWFP where the people owe more allegiance to Afganistan than Pakistan.

It appears that the slow response of Pakistani Army in these two areas was not without a reason.

Re: # 125-Mr.RSridhar-You wrote--

``It is a fact that Indians and Pakis do not just trust each other. I bet the same thing would have happened if, instead of Pak`s Kashmir, India`s Kashmir was affected and Mushy had offered his Army`s help to India. I bet India too would have refused. ``

I dont think so. In such a situation either India would have declined international help(excluding material aid). Or, if India had accepted international help including rescue teams from all across the world, it would not have made distinction with Pakistan. India would have allowed atleast the Pakistani NGOs and Civil Groups to assit in the relief work. Pakistan , did not agree even for the Civilian assistance ,which is really sad.

Following is another one, from the Chowk archives, on the Gujarat earthquake, which went over 400 replies. Kindly go read the Pakistani replies there. Barring an odd reply, the rest are certainly not in the gutter........

Eathquake Hits India And Pakistan

http://www.chowk.com/show_article.cgi?aid=00000986&channel=civic%20center&threshold=0&layout=0&order=0&start=10&end=19&page=1#385

The remarks are too long to print, but here is one from someone I used to know, during my younger days on Chowk.........

#13 by Umairr on January 28, 2001 2:03am PT

``One of the Indians whom I just hired is from Gujrat. He was the first to ask me whether my family had been effected. Considering the fact, that only a few people died in Pakistan, and thousands died in India, I should have asked him first. So there is mutual sympathy.

My condolences to everyone who has been effected by this earthquake,``

If this has been Pakistan`s finest hour (which it has). It certainly has been India`s media`s lowest. Hardly anyone in that media is bothered about covering the event. They are all obsessed with Musharraf spurning this offer or that. That is all that counts, apparently (though he did accept eventually). Pakistan has now asked India to allow Pakistani troops access through Indian Kashmir to access certain points in Pakistani Kashmir. India has not replied. Should we all obsess with that now.

Perhaps, someone in the Indian media should ask their own govt. to back out the Indian troops from Siachen. A useless war to keep Pakistani soldiers deployed there, who could be helping in this aid effort. That would free up the Paksitani troops, and they can really help, since they are high-altitude trained, with equipment and snowsuits etc........

However, it has been the very lowest hour for many, if not most, of our Indian colleagues on this site. I don`t know what is below a gutter, but that is where they are now. I hope this is the last time anyone on this site tries to compare Indian comments with Paksitani ones. I have always found most of our Indian colleauges on this site to lack introspection. And many, if not most, seem to carry a bigotry towards Pakistan, Islam, Muslims, that is not found in Pakistani interactors, here. And they try to their best to play one Paksitani institution against another. Even the Indian colleagues on this site trying to blame other Indians for their behavior, are saying its Pakistan`s fault that Indians behave like this.
Barring an odd article or two belittling an Indian leader or two etc., Pakistani rarely go into the gutter on Hinduism, Hindus, Indian tragedies etc.

Just to keep everything in perspective, I looked at the following article on the Gujarat earthquake, and checked out the Pakistani replies. Other than one Pakistani, named Mr Barrister, who was into Ummah, Khalifah, and was criticized by Pakistanis., and one from Urstruly (which covered Kashmir), and one from Asim on caste system, following are the replies, of the other Pakistanis. Do keep in mind that Pakistan has, as many, if not more, issues with India than India has with Pakistan.........Yet look at the difference in responses........

http://www.chowk.com/show_article.cgi?aid=00000989&channel=gulberg&threshold=1&layout=0&order=0&start=40&end=49&page=1#1 (An Eyewitness Account of Death, Horror and Misery)......

#1 by fairdinkum on February 2, 2001 11:38am PT

Thanks for putting this together for us.. I don`t have words to express my feelings... my heart goes out to all those who have lost so much in Gujrat. I will do whatever i can to help

#2 by Urstruly on February 2, 2001 12:13pm PT
I would request Sadna & Mohajir Inc. to keep this thread clean. At least show respect to the dead and dying if you are not capable of doing anything else.......But this is not the time and place. Try to save people, or help those who are saving people or at least pretend to look sad.

#3 by ahmadb on February 2, 2001 2:57pm PT

Your piece has once again touch my human sensibility. Please let us know how we could alleviate the current and future difficulties of the earthquake victims.

#4 by Ras Siddiqui on February 2, 2001 4:03pm PT

Pehlay Aap? Pakistan Calling!

#5 by ylh on February 2, 2001 8:56pm PT
I never thought I would weep for Indians.

Yasser

#6 by ShirinAhmed on February 2, 2001 8:56pm PT

I really do not have words to say right now .What i read has made me completely speechless.Thank you for such a vivid description.May God have mercy on the people.I think i would like to publish this article in our local news paper.

#7 by SameerJB on February 3, 2001 1:16am PT
On belalf of myself and all chowkwallas, please extend our admiration to Umang and other volunteers. They are real human in a sea of men. I salute them.

#10 by Aisha_Sarwari on February 3, 2001 1:16am PT

These are the times when Man is helpless and then the only tool of making survival have a purpose is to pray. I`m really sorry that this happened.

#11 by scout on February 3, 2001 10:08am PT
Death is misery for the survivors, not for the dead.

This article was heartbreaking.

#12 by tahmed321 on February 3, 2001 10:08am PT
Thanks for the article. It is one thing to read about things in the newspapers. It is another to read about individual suffering in the way described in your write-up........ Let us pray that we see this as the start of a peace and reconciliation process between India and Pakistan.

#17 by tahmed321 on February 4, 2001 5:34pm PT
Barrister Amir #15 You dare to take a human tragedy in India and in Turkey, and claim that you understand God`s purpose behind these tragedies? You once again are in violation of the Quran, you fool.

#18 by Zahra on February 4, 2001 11:43pm PT
I received the following from a friend, who is managing a mailing list. She has been actively involved in the relief work and has been forwarding information to various groups.

#21 by hamidm on February 5, 2001 8:27am PT
Barrister Amir
........ i am embarrased for you ......although i am given to praying only twice a year and at jewish weddings, i dug up the old janamaz and prayed to the almighty to punish you for your wickedness .....

You can read the rest there.........

I wish that my Indian friends would avoid scoring debating points at this time. There is a time and place for everything and there will be a time and place to do the analysis of Kashmir, Jihad and Pakistani army`s role. Now is not that time. If we have the compassion in us, now is the time to commiserate, or else keep quiet.

Respectfully submitted
(with apologies to behram)

arjun_m #132
About 2-3 million people have become homeless with winter imminent. Children are at risk of dying of hypothermia(5 died in Indian J&K). Let them change their minds as they wish, it might save some lives.

Make up your minds already...First you said you didn`t need help(and actually offered help ..some weird dignity thing)..

Pakistan wants to use Indian route to reach remote villages

By Iftikhar Gilani

NEW DELHI: Pakistan has formally asked India for access through Jammu and Kashmir to get to remote villages close to the Line of Control in Azad Kashmir. The request is in response to two offers of help made by Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.

However, India is quiet over Pakistan’s request, as the Indian government is not too happy with Islamabad refusing Indian Air Force (IAF) helicopters to rescue Indians stranded in Muzaffarabad. Many remote areas of Azad Kashmir have become inaccessible because last Saturday’s earthquake wiped out all road and bridge links and no rescuer was able to reach them even after a week having passed.

Sources confirmed on Friday that Pakistan had formally approached India “through the diplomatic channel” for access to the remote areas of Azad Kashmir from the Indian side of the LoC, but there was no word about it at the official briefing of the External Affairs Ministry.

The Indian PM’s gesture of asking Pakistan to use “Indian territory” for rescue operations was one thing while the decision to allow Pakistani military or civilian authorities to actually do so was another, sources said, adding that it would be very difficult to get approval from senior Indian quarters and that was why no immediate official response to the request.

Sources said a clarification had been sought from Islamabad on its request since it was not clear whether they want to use Indian airspace to fly rescue teams into Azad Kashmir or wanted to start relief missions from “Indian territory”.

Re: # 101

Dear Ranjit:

You show your immaturity when you write [This earthquake is a divine retribution against Pakistanis for their misdeeds against India.] How can you be so cruel? Why are you so callous?

You sound so righteous when you suggest [You people have given enormous grief and misery to countless people in India in the name of jihad, driven Kashmiri hindus out of Kashmir and attacked our places of worship. Every time your jihadies massacared innocent hindu families or killed our soldiers, we Indians would curse that you are wiped out. The collective curses from everyone in India has finally worked. God has listened to us and wreaked havoc on you.] Is that all you can ask for from your God? Are you telling me that you have a merciless god?

You further write [Now you can feel the pain of losing innocent people, the same pain that you inflicted on us mercilessly for 20 years. The precise location of the earthquake is such that maximum casualties are on Pok, Northern Punjab and NWFP, the heartland for jihad. This is a sure sign that God is on our side and for you to learn a lesson.] Of course, your god takes sides. But my God, Ahura Mazda, is the Lord of Wisdom.

You ask [I dont know why Indians are being compassionate now.] The reason being that UNLIKE YOU most Indians are sensible.

Your garbage thoughts should be cleansed.

You advocate [Lets learn from Ghanznavi and Ghauri. Pakistan is our enemy and anything bad happening to our enemy is good for us. In fact, this gives the perfect opportunity to change the demographics in Kashmir. In the name of earthquake relief, let us move out muslims from there, relocate them to other parts of India and let hindus move into Kashmir.] HATE BEGETS HATE.

Please ask forgiveness of your thoughts before it is too late, and the fire of hate engulfs you.

Respectfully submitted,

as i said on unplugged, unless indians have a direct connection to god through which they can cause zalzalas, pakistanis should not care about indian gloating on earthquake death in pak. waisay given the mindset of most indians here, i would expect if indians had the opportunity, they would get god to brew up trouble in pak rather than asking god for a better india. i also think such behaviour on the part of indians would be perfectly understandable given what has transpired in india since a certain arab laned on deebal all those years ago.