NWFP Demonstrators Fury against No Response from Army
Omar Khan October 12, 2005
#97 Posted by soysauce on October 13, 2005 9:07:04 pm
hamidmji,
I thought you were upset with the author of this article. Don`t tell me it was the indoos that messed up your liver.
At any rate, what`s your attraction to the dictator that you get so easily upset when he`s criticized?
I thought you were upset with the author of this article. Don`t tell me it was the indoos that messed up your liver.
At any rate, what`s your attraction to the dictator that you get so easily upset when he`s criticized?
reply to this interact
write a new interact
add to favorites
flag objectionable content
#96 Posted by ali_1 on October 13, 2005 8:57:42 pm
#94hamidm2
``......... based on the vitriol and venom displayed by some indians on this board it is not difficult to understand why our forefathers chose to part ways with them ......... ``
This is what makes chowk worthwhile.... it unmasks the banya! when someone like hamidm2 can see the light, then I am sure younger ones who browse here can do too!
#236 by hamidm2 on September 16, 2005 8:29am PT
.......... some of my best friends are ``madrasi help desk engineers`` - all my paki friends deserted me when they reverted to islam at the age of fort
``......... based on the vitriol and venom displayed by some indians on this board it is not difficult to understand why our forefathers chose to part ways with them ......... ``
This is what makes chowk worthwhile.... it unmasks the banya! when someone like hamidm2 can see the light, then I am sure younger ones who browse here can do too!
#236 by hamidm2 on September 16, 2005 8:29am PT
.......... some of my best friends are ``madrasi help desk engineers`` - all my paki friends deserted me when they reverted to islam at the age of fort
#95 Posted by ana on October 13, 2005 8:29:59 pm
soysauce:
oh no, he understood it alright. which is why he used words such as lashkara and chamkara! if you know that kulharee means axe, then i asked him if he was zangzadeh, which is the urdu/persian word for ``rusted`` (zang is rust). paalish is polish, taapik is topic, and the verb karoing is of course the hindi verb to do combined with the present progressive -ing.
hope that helps!
hamid:
*continuing in self-righteous mode*. venting or not venting spleen, quoting sherman, and being inclined to think he is right is just as nauseating as what you consider to be nauseating. and i could produce a few of jeff foxworthy`s ``you`re a redneck if. . . .`` and connect that to you, but i don`t consider that to be suitable for this board.
oh no, he understood it alright. which is why he used words such as lashkara and chamkara! if you know that kulharee means axe, then i asked him if he was zangzadeh, which is the urdu/persian word for ``rusted`` (zang is rust). paalish is polish, taapik is topic, and the verb karoing is of course the hindi verb to do combined with the present progressive -ing.
hope that helps!
hamid:
*continuing in self-righteous mode*. venting or not venting spleen, quoting sherman, and being inclined to think he is right is just as nauseating as what you consider to be nauseating. and i could produce a few of jeff foxworthy`s ``you`re a redneck if. . . .`` and connect that to you, but i don`t consider that to be suitable for this board.
#94 Posted by hamidm2 on October 13, 2005 7:29:33 pm
......... based on the vitriol and venom displayed by some indians on this board it is not difficult to understand why our forefathers chose to part ways with them ......... also, i am inclined to think that william tecumseh sherman was right when he said, ``the only good indian is a dead indian!``
........... just venting the old spleen !
#93 Posted by soysauce on October 13, 2005 6:55:00 pm
#91 ana,
I didn`t even know it was Urdu. Seeing that Kulharee didn`t reply I wonder if that Paindoo didn`t understand it either.
I didn`t even know it was Urdu. Seeing that Kulharee didn`t reply I wonder if that Paindoo didn`t understand it either.
#92 Posted by harimau on October 13, 2005 5:31:57 pm
Ref ferozk #23
[....There was a complete lack of information or data on which to base decisions and the first task of the army units, in the affected areas, was to organize themselves first and regain their unit cohesions. The second step, though it may sound harsh, was to make sure that once their TOOs (Tables of Organization) was reconsituted, to assess their primary ability, which the was defense of the LoC. Finally, after this came the process of local deployments to aid the victims and again; this was being done on an ad hoc basis based on the availability of fragmentary information.
Once it became it became clear that the Indian side of LoC had suffered too from the earthquake, and that across the LoC, the Indian army was also engaged in a similar process, there was a process of standing down or lowering of the threat levels, because both armies given the casualities they had suffered, were in no position to mount an effective across the LoC operation and take advantage of the situation.]
Has there been ONE instance of India sneaking an attack on Pakistan in the last 58 years?
I know Pakistanis are paranoid but clearly your army is in need of medication if it thought that Indians would sneak an attack at this time of calamity.
All you had to do was look at Kargil and re-play the condemnation Pakistan received for its sneak attack.
Indians may be dumb but they are not stupid. And no, we don`t want Field Marshal Romair`s relatives as Indian citizens. We would happily give them those t-shirts with the Pakistani flag.
[....There was a complete lack of information or data on which to base decisions and the first task of the army units, in the affected areas, was to organize themselves first and regain their unit cohesions. The second step, though it may sound harsh, was to make sure that once their TOOs (Tables of Organization) was reconsituted, to assess their primary ability, which the was defense of the LoC. Finally, after this came the process of local deployments to aid the victims and again; this was being done on an ad hoc basis based on the availability of fragmentary information.
Once it became it became clear that the Indian side of LoC had suffered too from the earthquake, and that across the LoC, the Indian army was also engaged in a similar process, there was a process of standing down or lowering of the threat levels, because both armies given the casualities they had suffered, were in no position to mount an effective across the LoC operation and take advantage of the situation.]
Has there been ONE instance of India sneaking an attack on Pakistan in the last 58 years?
I know Pakistanis are paranoid but clearly your army is in need of medication if it thought that Indians would sneak an attack at this time of calamity.
All you had to do was look at Kargil and re-play the condemnation Pakistan received for its sneak attack.
Indians may be dumb but they are not stupid. And no, we don`t want Field Marshal Romair`s relatives as Indian citizens. We would happily give them those t-shirts with the Pakistani flag.
#91 Posted by ana on October 13, 2005 4:55:37 pm
soysauce: #72
what was so incomprehensible about my post #72?!
--was it the urdu you didn`t understand?
--was it the hinglish that threw you off?
--was it the way i wrote english words to reflect how some of us desis taak?
--was it the whole point of the post. . . . .
. . . . which isn`t really vital to the rest of the discussion obviously?
what was so incomprehensible about my post #72?!
--was it the urdu you didn`t understand?
--was it the hinglish that threw you off?
--was it the way i wrote english words to reflect how some of us desis taak?
--was it the whole point of the post. . . . .
. . . . which isn`t really vital to the rest of the discussion obviously?
#89 Posted by dullabhatti on October 13, 2005 3:29:52 pm
romair, I can`t go and search now but I think you made that comment about east pakistan being a burdern on Pakistan in the past..may be not exactly the words....if I am wrong my apologies....but `some` Paks have certainly said that and rationalized its loss on those lines. secondly, your comments about Pak Kashmir being dependent upon Pakistan...I don`t neccessarily disagree with that.... what I pointed out is that isn`t that realization too late....after so much suffering of Kashmiris and spending by you guys, you pointing to the same direction as was re Bengalis? either way what you have said in your post #75 will seriously offend Kashmiris and even some Paks. If I were to be typical Indian I would probably cheer you for that.
re: ``vis-a-vis pakistan``....I checked Punjabi dictionary and there is no such word there...closest I found is ``wichay wich`` or wich-a-wich. e.g. romair nu pata nai ki hoyea wichay wich kuRhda rehnda.:-) baaki ReMax wich kehRa kanjar naukri karda?:-) I would starve if I did..I am not a good salesman.
dullabhatti
sanu akal batheri si,
tere ishq ne kamlay kar`tey
re: ``vis-a-vis pakistan``....I checked Punjabi dictionary and there is no such word there...closest I found is ``wichay wich`` or wich-a-wich. e.g. romair nu pata nai ki hoyea wichay wich kuRhda rehnda.:-) baaki ReMax wich kehRa kanjar naukri karda?:-) I would starve if I did..I am not a good salesman.
dullabhatti
sanu akal batheri si,
tere ishq ne kamlay kar`tey
#88 Posted by Romair on October 13, 2005 2:13:35 pm
South Asia quake more devastating than tsunami: WHO
ISLAMABAD (updated on: October 13, 2005, 19:52 PST): South Asia`s earthquake was more devastating than last year`s Indian Ocean tsunami in terms of the number of homeless and destruction to infrastructure, a UN official said Thursday.
Hussein Gezairy, who heads the World Health Organisation`s Cairo-based regional office that covers Pakistan, said it would be ``much, much more difficult`` to reach quake victims in the Himalayas than the tsunami survivors.
``The devastation is much bigger than the tsunami and much bigger definitely than what happened in the United States with Katrina hurricane,`` Gezairy told reporters in Islamabad.
``In the tsunami 1.5 million people were made homeless, but in this case we expect more than 2.5 million to be homeless,`` he said.
``For the 1.5 million people who were homeless something like 10 billion dollars were mobilised. I do not expect this to be happening in Pakistan, but I hope that people will give much more,`` he said.
The death toll was far higher in the tsunami. Some 217,000 people were killed when giant waves battered 11 Indian Ocean countries on December 26.
Saturday`s earthquake has killed more than 25,000 people in Pakistan and 1,300 in India.
Gezairy said it would be far more difficult to reach earthquake victims still cut off in the mountains.
``The tsunami was all along the coasts, no roads or bridges were destroyed and the damage was a few hundred meters inside,`` he said.
``During the tsunami it was possible to have some ships and in this case only helicopters can reach the disaster areas, but they cannot transport a large number people and equipment. It is much, much more difficult than the tsunami.``
Copyright AFP (Agence France-Presse), 2005
ISLAMABAD (updated on: October 13, 2005, 19:52 PST): South Asia`s earthquake was more devastating than last year`s Indian Ocean tsunami in terms of the number of homeless and destruction to infrastructure, a UN official said Thursday.
Hussein Gezairy, who heads the World Health Organisation`s Cairo-based regional office that covers Pakistan, said it would be ``much, much more difficult`` to reach quake victims in the Himalayas than the tsunami survivors.
``The devastation is much bigger than the tsunami and much bigger definitely than what happened in the United States with Katrina hurricane,`` Gezairy told reporters in Islamabad.
``In the tsunami 1.5 million people were made homeless, but in this case we expect more than 2.5 million to be homeless,`` he said.
``For the 1.5 million people who were homeless something like 10 billion dollars were mobilised. I do not expect this to be happening in Pakistan, but I hope that people will give much more,`` he said.
The death toll was far higher in the tsunami. Some 217,000 people were killed when giant waves battered 11 Indian Ocean countries on December 26.
Saturday`s earthquake has killed more than 25,000 people in Pakistan and 1,300 in India.
Gezairy said it would be far more difficult to reach earthquake victims still cut off in the mountains.
``The tsunami was all along the coasts, no roads or bridges were destroyed and the damage was a few hundred meters inside,`` he said.
``During the tsunami it was possible to have some ships and in this case only helicopters can reach the disaster areas, but they cannot transport a large number people and equipment. It is much, much more difficult than the tsunami.``
Copyright AFP (Agence France-Presse), 2005
#87 Posted by mujnoon on October 13, 2005 2:11:31 pm
The pain, fury and desperation of the affectees is hard to watch. For observers like me (who can`t do much than to simply donate money and materials), it is only natural to want for relief efforts to go on in the most effiecient manner possible. Hence people are cheering on
journalists who are questioning the handling of the numerous and complicated aspects of the relief operation. I think it only serves to provide the government greater impetus to improvise and quickly correct the wrongs.
This is a HUGE disaster. The government really is doing what it can and yet it`s proving to be far from enough. Reason being that we don`t have a disaster recovery plan for any size of disaster, let alone for one of this scale and magnitudue. We don`t have trained disaster recovery and relief teams and equipment. The infrastructure in Kashmir and northern areas is minimal. I don`t need to repeat this, really most Pakistanis already know all this.
Having said that....the immediate planning of the disaster (regardless of the absence of an overall plan, limitation of our resources, difficult terrain and third world country status etc etc) seemed to be really haphazard. Basic common sense principles seemed not to have been applied in the ensuing response (too many to list here). But it`s a fine balance between constructive criticsm and knee jerk blame game. For instance the army is being blamed for everything. Some justified, some not. Either people are completely vilifying the army or singing endless hymns in their praise. As usual the truth lies somewhere in between. Mobilizing two divisions in 24 hours is no joke (with most modern armies not upto that task), but the army seems to have done it , whereas not having been trained in relief operations, basic things like distribution of relief is being mismanaged by the military. Immediate realization of the scale of the disaster and consequent calls for international help were key in saving numerous lives, while a basic requirement like prioritizing lifting of debris (with reports that heavy lifting equipment is sometimes deployed in buildings where there are only two bodies as opposed to in ones where there are hundreds) is not being done. The private sector has fully risen upto the challenge, but it is amazing that the government (i.e the military since it is leading the relief effort) is not conducting daily briefings about the pace of the relief effort and more importantly to provide direction/guidance to the growing public assistance/response.
Hindsight is 20/20 and it`s easy to make judgements (like me) from afar. And after all the brigade commander, leading the relief effort in and around muzaffrabad, is himself privately mourning the loss of his 11 year old son...so we have to keep reminding ourselves that this truly is a desperate situation. But we all want this relief effort to be conducted like Pakistan`s very survival depends on it. And so it`s upto all of us to point out the deficiencies in the hope that the managers of this huge operation listen and act. Judging by Musharraf`s speech from
yesterday, it seems the voices of the various journalists and affectees on the ground are making their way to the top. I just hope that translates into a more seamless execution. People`s very lives are depending on it. I mean the stakes couldn`t be any higher.
journalists who are questioning the handling of the numerous and complicated aspects of the relief operation. I think it only serves to provide the government greater impetus to improvise and quickly correct the wrongs.
This is a HUGE disaster. The government really is doing what it can and yet it`s proving to be far from enough. Reason being that we don`t have a disaster recovery plan for any size of disaster, let alone for one of this scale and magnitudue. We don`t have trained disaster recovery and relief teams and equipment. The infrastructure in Kashmir and northern areas is minimal. I don`t need to repeat this, really most Pakistanis already know all this.
Having said that....the immediate planning of the disaster (regardless of the absence of an overall plan, limitation of our resources, difficult terrain and third world country status etc etc) seemed to be really haphazard. Basic common sense principles seemed not to have been applied in the ensuing response (too many to list here). But it`s a fine balance between constructive criticsm and knee jerk blame game. For instance the army is being blamed for everything. Some justified, some not. Either people are completely vilifying the army or singing endless hymns in their praise. As usual the truth lies somewhere in between. Mobilizing two divisions in 24 hours is no joke (with most modern armies not upto that task), but the army seems to have done it , whereas not having been trained in relief operations, basic things like distribution of relief is being mismanaged by the military. Immediate realization of the scale of the disaster and consequent calls for international help were key in saving numerous lives, while a basic requirement like prioritizing lifting of debris (with reports that heavy lifting equipment is sometimes deployed in buildings where there are only two bodies as opposed to in ones where there are hundreds) is not being done. The private sector has fully risen upto the challenge, but it is amazing that the government (i.e the military since it is leading the relief effort) is not conducting daily briefings about the pace of the relief effort and more importantly to provide direction/guidance to the growing public assistance/response.
Hindsight is 20/20 and it`s easy to make judgements (like me) from afar. And after all the brigade commander, leading the relief effort in and around muzaffrabad, is himself privately mourning the loss of his 11 year old son...so we have to keep reminding ourselves that this truly is a desperate situation. But we all want this relief effort to be conducted like Pakistan`s very survival depends on it. And so it`s upto all of us to point out the deficiencies in the hope that the managers of this huge operation listen and act. Judging by Musharraf`s speech from
yesterday, it seems the voices of the various journalists and affectees on the ground are making their way to the top. I just hope that translates into a more seamless execution. People`s very lives are depending on it. I mean the stakes couldn`t be any higher.
#86 Posted by bongdongs on October 13, 2005 2:04:47 pm
#83
Hey Aslam you forgot this bit (by mistake?):
``Thank god for the army. If they had not been around, we would have perished of hunger and cold,`` he said``
Hey Aslam you forgot this bit (by mistake?):
``Thank god for the army. If they had not been around, we would have perished of hunger and cold,`` he said``
#85 Posted by Romair on October 13, 2005 2:02:52 pm
Bhatti Saab #78: Tusseen kujj parh likh lainday, tay ajj REMAX icchh naukri na kar ray hondae.................I think I should communicate, only in Punjabi, with you. Since you seem to be having difficulty understanding certain other languages (and I am not talking about Saraiki or Potohari).........
``here we go again. Romair I remember you said something similar about Bengalis also...that Pakistan is better off without them because East pakistan was such a drag on you. Now Kashmiris are drag on your booming economy high standard of living. You guys are your worst enemies...``
Phir Sardaran aalie gal keeti aye...........
Can you point out where I said, ``Something similar about Bengalis, also?`` Kashmir and Bengal are opposite situations, vis-a-vis Pakistan (vis-a-vis da matlab patta hay tussan noon? mainu fikar hai tusseen phir confuse ho jawoo gay).
What I have always stated is that both Pakistan and Bangladesh should have been two countries, from the start, because that is what Bengalis eventually wanted. And that both countries are better off as independent nations, not as one nation, i.e I have always supported the self-determination of Bengalis, if that is what they want. The fact that they have ended up as two separate nations, indicates that what I have said is accurate........I don`t believe in forcefully controlling other people.........Much like Kashmiris and Indians would both be better off, if they separate..........
The last thing I would want is for Kashmir to not be a part of Pakistan......... I am talking about my own area. Where much of my family originated. Primarily based in Muzzafarabad. I think, not only Pakistan Kashmir, but the rest of Kashmir in India, would be a part of Pakistan, if Kashmiris are allowed to vote for it. I would be living in Srinigar, had it not been for Pakistan. So rest assured, the importance of Pakistan, to Kashmir, is not lost to me. Pakistan and Kashmir are contigous, unlike Bangladesh. And Kashmiris want to be a part of Pakistan. Exactly the opposite of Bengalis.......
Hence these are two opposting situations........Not similar.........
However, when one analyses next steps of actions, one evaluates them on cold hard facts. Not on emotions. And that requires an analyses of the economy and the impact of such an event on it. The worst thing that could happen, now, to Kashmir, is for the economy of Pakistan, to crash also. Since that is what is going to support the rehibilitation, of Kashmir.........
``here we go again. Romair I remember you said something similar about Bengalis also...that Pakistan is better off without them because East pakistan was such a drag on you. Now Kashmiris are drag on your booming economy high standard of living. You guys are your worst enemies...``
Phir Sardaran aalie gal keeti aye...........
Can you point out where I said, ``Something similar about Bengalis, also?`` Kashmir and Bengal are opposite situations, vis-a-vis Pakistan (vis-a-vis da matlab patta hay tussan noon? mainu fikar hai tusseen phir confuse ho jawoo gay).
What I have always stated is that both Pakistan and Bangladesh should have been two countries, from the start, because that is what Bengalis eventually wanted. And that both countries are better off as independent nations, not as one nation, i.e I have always supported the self-determination of Bengalis, if that is what they want. The fact that they have ended up as two separate nations, indicates that what I have said is accurate........I don`t believe in forcefully controlling other people.........Much like Kashmiris and Indians would both be better off, if they separate..........
The last thing I would want is for Kashmir to not be a part of Pakistan......... I am talking about my own area. Where much of my family originated. Primarily based in Muzzafarabad. I think, not only Pakistan Kashmir, but the rest of Kashmir in India, would be a part of Pakistan, if Kashmiris are allowed to vote for it. I would be living in Srinigar, had it not been for Pakistan. So rest assured, the importance of Pakistan, to Kashmir, is not lost to me. Pakistan and Kashmir are contigous, unlike Bangladesh. And Kashmiris want to be a part of Pakistan. Exactly the opposite of Bengalis.......
Hence these are two opposting situations........Not similar.........
However, when one analyses next steps of actions, one evaluates them on cold hard facts. Not on emotions. And that requires an analyses of the economy and the impact of such an event on it. The worst thing that could happen, now, to Kashmir, is for the economy of Pakistan, to crash also. Since that is what is going to support the rehibilitation, of Kashmir.........
#84 Posted by bongdongs on October 13, 2005 2:01:42 pm
#83
Kashmir `woman suicide attacker`
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4337412.stm
``The site of the explosion, just a few metres from the national highway, was immediately sealed by police and security forces, authorities said.
The national highway is crowded with relief convoys taking aid to areas affected by Saturday`s earthquake.``
Kashmir `woman suicide attacker`
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4337412.stm
``The site of the explosion, just a few metres from the national highway, was immediately sealed by police and security forces, authorities said.
The national highway is crowded with relief convoys taking aid to areas affected by Saturday`s earthquake.``
#83 Posted by aslam644 on October 13, 2005 1:25:51 pm
#77netizen
``i don`t think any civilian agencies/ngo have gone there, so the army is the only provider.``
`Cruel joke` of India`s relief effort
By Soutik Biswas
BBC News, Kamalkot, Uri, Indian-administered Kashmir
The great Indian relief rush has finally begun.
Nearly a week after an earthquake decimated large swathes of northern Indian-administered Kashmir, civilians and NGO`s have taken it upon themselves to feed, clothe, nurse and house thousands of survivors.
The survivors, neglected by a slothful administration and battered by moody weather, have little choice, anyway.
In the summer capital of Srinagar, men and women, young old, squat on roadsides in gloomy makeshift kiosks collecting relief from people.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4339522.stm
``i don`t think any civilian agencies/ngo have gone there, so the army is the only provider.``
`Cruel joke` of India`s relief effort
By Soutik Biswas
BBC News, Kamalkot, Uri, Indian-administered Kashmir
The great Indian relief rush has finally begun.
Nearly a week after an earthquake decimated large swathes of northern Indian-administered Kashmir, civilians and NGO`s have taken it upon themselves to feed, clothe, nurse and house thousands of survivors.
The survivors, neglected by a slothful administration and battered by moody weather, have little choice, anyway.
In the summer capital of Srinagar, men and women, young old, squat on roadsides in gloomy makeshift kiosks collecting relief from people.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4339522.stm
#82 Posted by aslam644 on October 13, 2005 1:24:57 pm
#77netizen
``i don`t think any civilian agencies/ngo have gone there, so the army is the only provider.``
`Cruel joke` of India`s relief effort
By Soutik Biswas
BBC News, Kamalkot, Uri, Indian-administered Kashmir
The great Indian relief rush has finally begun.
Nearly a week after an earthquake decimated large swathes of northern Indian-administered Kashmir, civilians and NGO`s have taken it upon themselves to feed, clothe, nurse and house thousands of survivors.
The survivors, neglected by a slothful administration and battered by moody weather, have little choice, anyway.
In the summer capital of Srinagar, men and women, young old, squat on roadsides in gloomy makeshift kiosks collecting relief from people.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4339522.stm
``i don`t think any civilian agencies/ngo have gone there, so the army is the only provider.``
`Cruel joke` of India`s relief effort
By Soutik Biswas
BBC News, Kamalkot, Uri, Indian-administered Kashmir
The great Indian relief rush has finally begun.
Nearly a week after an earthquake decimated large swathes of northern Indian-administered Kashmir, civilians and NGO`s have taken it upon themselves to feed, clothe, nurse and house thousands of survivors.
The survivors, neglected by a slothful administration and battered by moody weather, have little choice, anyway.
In the summer capital of Srinagar, men and women, young old, squat on roadsides in gloomy makeshift kiosks collecting relief from people.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4339522.stm
Interact Index
Latest Interacts
- MeiraJ08: NOTE: As much as... Fathers and Daughters
- MeiraJ08: Masadi, when people write... Fathers and Daughters
- thinkingstorm: uh-oh...if the old masadi... Fathers and Daughters
- MeiraJ08: by the way T.S... Fathers and Daughters
- masadi: Meira writes "Masadi, Why mention... Fathers and Daughters
- MeiraJ08: 116 Ah Argentina, what... Fathers and Daughters
- thinkingstorm: MeriaJ, Che's a good guy,... Fathers and Daughters
- thinkingstorm: MEiraJ08, Che Guevara, the Argentinian... Fathers and Daughters
