NWFP Demonstrators Fury against No Response from Army

This article has too many inaccuracies. The Army is doing all that it can. And I think most people realize that. Having seen an odd relief operation or two, in my lifetime, the Army always does well in this situation. Many of the Armymen, themselves, are from lower-middle and lower income families from those areas.

In the end, everyone involved in the aid - Army, civilians, the general population - etc. are going to come out with flying colors. They seem to be doing all that they can, despite massive obstacles.

Kashmir quake anger may hurt Pakistan -separatist

MUZAFFARABAD, Oct 12 (Reuters) - The people of Pakistani Kashmir are becoming increasingly angry and alienated over what they see as a feeble government response to the weekend earthquake, a prominent Kashmiri politician said on Wednesday.

The 7.6 magnitude earthquake killed more than 20,000 people, most of them in the Pakistani part of the disputed Himalayan region. About 500 people were killed in Indian Kashmir.

``The government is not doing anything to provide relief to people,`` Amanullah Khan, leader of the Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) told Reuters in a telephone interview.

``People are angry and it is growing more and more every day.``

Truck loads of relief supplies have been arriving in Muzaffarabad, the devastated capital of Pakistani Kashmir, but roads to outlying areas higher up in the mountains have been swept away by landslides.

Many parts of the region have not been reached by rescuers more than four days after the quake struck and in Muzaffarabad, many people angrily denounce the government response to the disaster and say they have received no help.

The JKLF wants a united Kashmir, independent of both Pakistan and India, which have fought two of their three wars since independence in 1947 over the Muslim majority region. It used to be involved in an insurgency against Indian rule in its part of Kashmir but now advocates peaceful change.

Khan said what was regarded as an inadequate quake relief effort was breeding resentment against the central government.

``Definitely people here feel a sense of alienation when they hear that residents of Margala Tower were rescued within 36 hours,`` he said referring to an Islamabad apartment complex where two blocks collapsed in the quake killing dozens of people.

``But in Kashmir, where deaths and destructions are massive, the Pakistani and local governments are unable to reach people even after four days.``

JIHADIS HELPING OUT

Khan said the government response paled in comparison to that of the Indian government in the part of Kashmir it controls.

``It`s a shame as the government on the other side acted promptly and provided relief and rescue in all the affected areas ... People are angry here as they think Islamabad has double standards, even in handling natural disasters.``

``Kashmir is a very sensitive issue. The earthquake, as I forsee, will damage Pakistan`s image amongst the local Kashmiris and Pakistan could lose their sympathy. There is a sense of detachment here.``

Muslim militant groups that have for years supported an insurgency in Indian Kashmir have been quick to help in Pakistani Kashmir. Some quake survivors have said the only help they have got has been from such groups.

Khan said that too could pose a danger for the government, which has banned many of the groups in a crackdown on militancy.

``The jihadi (holy war) groups are more sincerely taking part in relief operations. Those groups, which were branded bad by the government, are no doubt doing well and will influence people`s sympathy in future,`` he said.

A minister of the Islamabad-backed government of Pakistani Kashmir, while acknowledging aid was slow in getting to outlying areas, denied anger was growing against the central government.

``The morale of the people is high,`` Senior Minister Raja Abdul Quyyum told Reuters.

``Inshallah (God willing), we will reconstruct with the moral support of the people, and the support of the government of Pakistan and the president of Pakistan,`` Quyyum said. (Additional reporting by Robert Birsel)

``The anger of locals is focused. The fact that Pakistan Army’s meagre aviation assets are committed in operations in Waziristan against suspected Al-Qaeda militants has meant that many in the mountainous surrounds of Shinkiari will not receive any assistance whatsoever. ``

This is not correct. The Army has around 19 (?) or so transport helicopters in its fleet. That is all. And they are relatively small ones. The reason this number is so small is because the Pakistan Army is oriented towards a tank war, in the Sind and Punjab plains, with a bordering country. Hence large helicopter airlifts are not required. These helicopters were used to deploy resources to Siachen, where there is an India-Pakistan stand-off, because it is impossible to get there, any other way, during winters. These helicopters cannot fly at night.

All of these are now flying in aid to the tragedy.

The helicopters deployed in Waziristan are not these large supply helicopters, since Waziristan is easily accessible by land. Most of the normal Army helicopters are two-person vehicles, used for search and rescue. As well as two person Cobra type combat helicopters. These are the ones in Waziristan. None of them can be used to transfer supplies and people.

The biggest help will come from the US Chinooks. These are very large, dual-rotor helicopters, which are perfectly designed to transfer troops. In normal times, all of Pakistan`s large scale aerial troop deployments are done through C-130 PAF aircraft. Pakistan has plenty of those. And they are being used to transfer relief supplies, from Karachi to Islamabad etc. However, they require runways, which are only available in places like Chitral, Gilgit etc.

``Over bottled water, instead of the usual green tea, the conversation switches to how the Caliphate would deal with such an emergency. This disaster has exposed Musharraf as much as it boosted the ambitions and sensations of those who would reconstruct the Caliphal system, a task now felt less daunting that the reconstruction of lives now lying in utter ruin and abandoned.``

There is nothing any Caliphate could have done in such a situation. Even a modern Caliphate. Unless it had large amounts of Chinook helicopters. Musharraf has done fine. He was in Islamabad, in the morning, and in Kashmir in the evening. And is trying his best to remain calm and handle this massive crises.

Re: # 1
Seems more like an article of faith and a hope for how the future will turn out... just my 2paise.

A_S

arjun:

i think it is a difficult task to reach the inaccesible parts especially after the landslides.

even in indian part, things are not all that great. I read Sayeed acknowledging that some 10 villages are still out of reach.

being in mountains, in becomes very difficult for lay persons to go and help them especially with unknown terrain unlike in plains like islamabad.

romair, there is a large core in indian army specifically geared towards mountain road building and maintenance..i forget the name ..border roads task force i think (symbol of a lamp on their insignias). they are mandated in keeping all the border roads navigable and have all kinds of gear for that task. is something like its equivalent in pakistani army useful in this calamity?

BRO: border roads organization

Re: # 5

Romair seems to be more fluent in matters of the military, so he`ll probably correct me if I can. But I think the closest to the BRO that Pakistan Army has is FWO (Frontier Works Organization). It is an engineering organziation within the army that is responsible for road works etc, especially in mountainous areas. They are the ones who built the Karakarom Highway for instance. And in fact they are the ones who also cleared the roads just recently after the earthquakes.

Re: # 2

I think all Pakistanis should accept for the benefit of our indian friend here, that they have a better army, their relief operations are running smoother than pakistan`s and all indian men have bigger dicks than their pakistani counterparts.

After we have established all the above, perhaps we can move on to issues that are more pressing and relevant at this point in time! As I have requested in other similar discussions, please let`s keep the india-pak politics out of threads that are primarily trying to address the humanitarian issues surrounding the earthquake, rather than our decades old festering cross-border disputes.

Some of people still have whole familes buried under mounds of rubble....PLEASE let`s get some perspective!

#8 yesyes sirji, but remember to enquire if FWO received orders to get moving on a war footing...maybe later.. they are likely to have machinary and expertize for quick-fixing mountain roads. but in miltry sometimes all is needed are orders.

Romair #3

`` This is not correct. The Army has around 19 (?) or so transport helicopters in its fleet. That is all. And they are relatively small ones. The reason this number is so small is because the Pakistan Army is oriented towards a tank war, in the Sind and Punjab plains, with a bordering country. Hence large helicopter airlifts are not required. These helicopters were used to deploy resources to Siachen, where there is an India-Pakistan stand-off, because it is impossible to get there, any other way, during winters. These helicopters cannot fly at night. ``

To say large helicopters are not useful in a large ground war is silly. Large helicopters are useful for troop evacuvations and commando operations. It might be a lower priority than other systems.

`` The biggest help will come from the US Chinooks. These are very large, dual-rotor helicopters, which are perfectly designed to transfer troops. In normal times, all of Pakistan`s large scale aerial troop deployments are done through C-130 PAF aircraft. Pakistan has plenty of those. And they are being used to transfer relief supplies, from Karachi to Islamabad etc. However, they require runways, which are only available in places like Chitral, Gilgit etc. ``

How many Chinooks does the US Air Force have ? Given the number of people affected it looks like you would need 100+ Chinook helicopters. I doubt 8 helicopters from the US Air Force is making a difference. I thought 3 of the 8 USAF choppers were Blackhawks.

Romair #1

For a large well funded capable organization of over 600,000 men the Pakistani Army`s response has been poor. It is not like they need orders from their civillian bosses. You have no Nawaz or Benazir to shift blame to.

Hallo... curious to know... who acted faster - the Pakistani army or the Indian army??

-zensufi.com-

Romair: how is your extended family and biradari doing up in North? Hope everyone escaped this terrible death storm.

Couple of nights ago I caught this glimspe of army in action on BBC world news service, an half hour program broadcasted at midnight in california. People were digging the rubble almost with their bare hands at site of a school where kids were buried alive....on the side about 10-15 Pak soldiers were standing and when the press reporter asked them why are not they helping, one the officers in them said there is no orders to them to do so....finally when people shamed them into helping few of them came over the rubble and did some help but still looking very disoriented...... one could take it as a coincidence that they were men in uniforms trapped in this horrible scene but if I am able bodied man standing next to a site like that where people are digging dead kids with their bare hands, it will be very heartless of me to not help....if thsoe kids are my country`s and I am a soldier, shame on me.

Indian Soldiers cross over to help

Just heard over BBC that some soldiers crossed over the LOC to help beleaguered Pakistan soldiers. According to BBC reporter the Indians crossed over at the invitation of their Pakistani counterparts.

Officially Pakistan has denied Indian offer to help acorss the LOC. The Pakistani BBC reporter down played the co-operation.

However, this gesture should be reported and applauded as a good humanitarian gesture

temporal 21.28hrs Oct 12, 2005.

the people who run this website, you can almost see them praying for pak army to fail so that they can go to bed at night feeling better about themselves. the other group of people who want the army to fail are the jamaatis.

no surprise to find chowk-staff in such august company.